Extreme Associates. Do YOU consider their material obscene?
 

Much talk of Gonzales and the Extreme Associates case being challenged. Fuck the government. What do YOU think of simulated gang rapes, beatings and violent attacks on women? Would you sell it? Would you film it? Would you watch it? Do you think they should have a legal right to produce this material?

This is a touchy subject, I think we work in an industry where we have to stick by freedom of speech and expression. If the model was fully aware of what she was getting into, what the scene would consist of, and had no problem doing it then there is nothing wrong with it. We can't pick and choose. If the model is consenting and legal age it's fair game.

This falls under the if you don't like it or approve then look away area for most.

No, no, no...
 

I'm against, and say "NO" to all of the above which I quoted.

Some people will do anything for a buck. I won't.

ADG Webmaster

EA is going to either set an example, or they will be made one. If they set an example, I can only pray for our industry, as it will only get worse. I do not agree with their content what-so-ever, but think they should have the right to produce it, under Freedom of Speech. However, there really needs to be some sort of limitations put on content production, such as a 3rd party rating system, that warns people clearly what is contained within the contents. Mainstream movies have it, why doesn't porn?

Do people not know when they are buying extreme (violent) porn?

The movies in question fall under what they call a "directors cut" which is openly pushed as more extreme then a regular adult film. Directors cuts fall under a more Euro style video.

This is a lot of the content in question in North America is rather normal in Europe and Asia.

I think it is fine as long as the models are consenting !

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Yes they would, one of the titles was called Forced Entry which is based on some local serial killers in Los Angeles. One being the nightstalker Richard Ramirez. If you look on the website when buying this video it says

Homicidal Rapists and Serial Killers as well as the poor, lost sluts they Kidnap, torture, rape and Kill! Not For The Squimish!

I think that bout covers it.

Looking at your sig that's a very proper statement.

What do you think about simulated child porn? Say, a consenting 18 year old model pretending to be 16?

It's legal to do in mainstream movies, or hollywood movies. Look at American Beauty that won the awards, they were high school kids getting naked, one with an older married man, she was topless and trying to kiss him.

This stuff is all touchy and no one will ever agree where to stand on this stuff.

I myself believe that doing this is wrong, and that it does cater to the people who probably should not be watching porn. Does their age really need to be said?

If they are in a school girl outfit, or a cheerleader outfit I think it serves its purpose. If someone has a fantasy about being with someone under age, they can select the age they feel the model is when jerking off to them, but saying they are underage is just wrong.

How about a porn where a girl and a guy come home from high school together? Maybe they were held back ;-)

I feel as long as the model wasnt cohersed or intoxicated.....wtf.....

It's been done, and if you look at a lot of the teen sites out there the models are shot around lockers or in hall ways with lockers all around so it appears to be in a high school

Shooting it in this style is fine, but when you start naming ages I think it goes over the line. Of course this is just my opinion.

Yeah, that's true. Tough call as to where the line is.

There isn't a line and there should not be. People should not abuse the system to make a buck. There are enough horny fuckers with a credit card that you should not need to do that to make a buck

Not "naming ages". That is where you want the line to be. ;-)

I must ask a few preliminary questions before I answer that:

#1. Does the material involve animals?

#2. Does the material involve children?

#3. Were all parties involved consenting adults on the day of filming?

#4. While I may not subscribe to a certain genre of adult entertainment, is it my JOB to say what is ok for other adults to view within the confines of their own home privately?

If I answer "No" to all 4 of the questions above then they should be allowed to produce it, and I should be allowed to purchase it and view it in my home if I want.

I don't see any gray area. If those 4 answers are no then it should be legal. Scat? Sure if all 4 questions were answered no. Fisting? Sure if all 4 questions were answered no. So on and so on...

Simulated Rape?
Simulated Necrophilia?

See questions #1 - #4

And by the way, both of those exist in mainstream movies, they just don't show the tallywhacker go in and out of the cha cha. What's the difference? The reference is still there. It's still simulated rape or simulated necrophilia....

The key word there is simulated. It's two consenting people having sex on film. can't censor some and not others. Compare simulated rape to what goes on in a lot of bdsm sites. It gets touchy when you enter that.

Are you also against what could be portrayed as scat? Just chocolate

:thumbsup

So by your questions, you would say that Simulated Rape and Simulated Necrophilia should be allowed, as they do not involve children, nor do they involve animals, both parties are consenting. Ok, how about Actual Self-Mutilation? Or Suicide Videos?

The legal age to be adult in most states is 18. Let's say that you have a son or daughter, and they decide to build a library of sick ass shit, like Self-Mutiliation, Suicide, Simulated Rape, Simulated Torture, Simulated Necrophilia, etc... Legally, you can't do shit about it, because they are 18 and by law would be allowed to buy them under your method. And you would be okay with it??????

#4 answers this question.

While I may not APPROVE of it or SUBSCRIBE to it, it DOES NOT give me the right to say that you can't view it.

What if I have a phobia about flowers, and you INSIST on growing them in your front yard? Do I have the right to tell you to get rid of the flowers if the problem mentally is on my end?

Now, if you start growing YOUR flowers in MY yard we have a problem...

Also, I try to do a little thing that has been long forgotten by many people. It's called actually PARENTING my children. Hopefully, with my guidance, they will understand right from wrong and reality from fantasy. Once they turn 18 however, it's no longer my choice to make for them. They are adults and can do as they see fit.

Be okay with no, but they are 18 and are able to choose what they watch are are into. This is when a parent can then choose to speak with it's child and discuss why they may be into these things. People want to shift blame a lot these days, but be a good parent teach your kids what is right and what is wrong, what is real and what is fake.

Are the videos wrong, yes to an extent, are they legal to make and show yes. It can't be freedom or speech, but no rape, torture, etc etc.

Soon it will be freedom of speech, but no rape, torture, teens, pigtails, no women under 5 feet high etc etc.

People are allowed to make choices, the women in these videos agree to do it, and sign a model release stateing they approve of what they are doing. We can't tell people they can't have sex a certain way. People are into sick shit plain and simple. Don't like it change the channel.

I advise anyone who has issues with certain content to travel Europe and Asia, see what's the norm over there. You may change what you are thinking.

Is it obscene? In my personal opinion, yes. However, i don't think obscenity should be illegal. People should have the right to be as obscene as they please so long as they're not hurting anyone but themselves and other adults who agree to participate.

What if your kid turns 18 and gets very into horror movies the blood the death the murder the mutilation and starts collecting dvd's and etc. Should this be right?

Same thing, but it has sex involved. Since we can see a cock going into a pussy this makes it wrong, but a movie that has rape in it is ok?

So, are you saying, that if you had a son/daughter who was 18+, and you found they had 50 videos of Self-Mutilation, Sim Rape, Sim Necro, Suicide etc... stashed in a collection, along with some Satanic books and a few guns and knives, you would be perfectly okay with it, because the "Law" allows it.

Alright. Now, I see why our country is so bass ackward.

IMHO, I don't give a shit how effing old you are 18 or not, if you came from MY DNA, I will kick the shit out of you if I found that shit. I will do prison time to get my point across to my own flesh & blood. That shit is WRONG. Pure and simple. Whether the law allows it or not.

Which brings this back to that the EA thing is more of a Moral issue than anything. Granted, they are not pushing Sim Necro, but where do we draw the line?

Now it's satanic books, guns knives etc etc.. I think we have gotten off the subject of if it's ok or not.

If your kid was 18 and had these things you should be kicking the shit out of yourself and being a bad parent.

If your kid had a gun a knife and a satanic book you'd kick the shit out of him and go to jail.. I think if anything the kid would need a parent and someone to talk to. I think your reply is a bit ass backwords to me.

Is what they are doing wrong, yes, is it legal yes. Are the people in the video constenting yes. Nuff said.

If I am not mistaken...the Supreme Court has previously determed that "Community Standards" be the defining factor to establish what is "obscene"..or not "obscene". Because the United States...is just that...United States...with State Rights...in addition to individual County and Municipal Rights. I really do not have a problem with "Community Standards" prevailing.

I do have somewhat of a problem with the Federal Government making the determination of what is "obscene" and forcing that determination upon State...County...and Municipal Governments.

What's moral to you may not be moral to someone else is my point. Legally speaking, when a person turns 18 they have a right, just as you have a right, to view this stuff, Whether they are your kids or not. All your job as a parent is, to provide the guidance BEFORE THEY ARE 18 that will guide them along the path of what is right and what is wrong. If you instill your morals in them, then hopefully they will live by your morals. If they don't, then it is on them.

People should spend less time trying to babysit the rest of the world and more time babysitting their own kids. THAT'S why this world is fucked up. Not because of some porno flick. It's because people can't mind their own business and take care of what's at home before they are out crusading against something they don't understand.

I was illustrating a point. The point being, that assuming you did everything in your power to develop a responsible adult, who knows the difference between right and wrong, and your child still collects these type of videos / books... whatever.

You cannot honestly tell me that you would be "Okay" with that. Can you?

If you can, then this conversation is over. Because you need some help.

If you find a problem with it, then, the question arises... Who is to blame?
1. The Parent even though you did everything you could.
2. The Consumer (Your Kid)
3. The Producer for creating the atrocities
4. The FedEx Guy for delivering it
5. The Gov't for not restricting these types of consumables
6. The website for displaying it
7. Visa for allowing the charge
8. Or?????

If the law did not restrict these types of purchases, who would? Do you believe there should be no restrictions? Do you believe in the "Anything Goes" scenerio?

I'm not beefing with you, I'm just trying to understand. I personally don't care about it much either way, other than, I think allowing this type of stuff is going to make it VERY difficult to do business in the future. Restricting this type of content, will only help our industry.

Just some thoughts.

I would need help if my child who is now an adult decided to read the satanic bible and collects guns and knives.

Your point was that you'd be the shit out of them and go to jail, my point is that I would try to talk to them and figure out what they are choosing these things as part of their life.

And you say if I made that choice I need help. I think you may for kicking their ass and going to jail.

This type of stuff won't make it difficult to do biz in the future, the people installing spyware, spamming illegally, credit card scams, stealing traffic, is what is going to make it hard to do biz in the future. We will be long dead before they will ever set some sort of internet law. .com is not owned by the US, so they can't try and police it, that's never going to happen. It's simple don't like the laws there move to mexico, you can do what ever you want on your website from there.

As I have said go to europe and asia see the content there and content here is tame.

They've been trying to set Porn laws for years now and have not come close to doing any damage to the video side of the industry so I doubt the net has to worry.

I also don't think someone owning videos of this type of porn would affect the net at all. That's an entire different story.

Limiting and policeing these things goes against many freedoms, freedom of speech, choice and expression. If these things were limited and were censored and banned, then something else would become the whipping boy, and then the government could start picking things off one at a time. If the worst out there is not the worst anymore something would need to take it's place, I think that would make it hard to do business in the future as well.

Noone's beefing bro. It's discussions like this that would make this board a better place. Both sides have their stance, and both sides are trying to see the others point of view. That's what it's all about.

Now you asked personally, would I be ok if my son or daughter ended up collecting this type of material? No for some of it. I would personally be upset that they had gone off on some weird sexual tangent that involved blood or mutilation, BUT, I still would not interfere. While I may not like what they are doing, if they are an adult, it's none of my business. I did my job. I tried to raise them the best I knew how. If they subscribe to some wild sexual practices that I don't quite understand, then that is their right. Just because I don't get off on something or understand it for that matter, doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't be allowed to enjoy it if it is their cup of tea. THAT is my point. Everyone has different tastes. Some are less tasteful than what you would consider normal. Some have much higher standards than you.

Should a religious person, who hates porn in all forms, have the right to tell you that you cannot view regular porn? Nothing extreme, just male/female.

Before you answer "No they shouldn't have a right to..." , think about the question in relation to this. They see all porn the same way you see EA's porn. It's all bad. To them, vanilla porn is just as bad as EA stuff. They don't approve of any of it. Do they have the right to say that you cannot watch regular old porn? It's immoral to them. But not immoral to you.

anything bwtween two (or more) consenting adults is ok.

If you want to draw lines, do it in your own damn book not mine (cause then you would be damaging my property and violating my rights ;) )

Do you find scat disgusting? I know I do, but why the fuck would I care if other people like it? If I found scat, satanic bibles etc. in my kids possession, I would be upset sure, but I wouldn't beat them... That would just create resentment, and obvisoulsy alienate an already alianated and rebelious kid even more...

Interestingly enough, simulated rape sites apear to be quite popular with women, I will try to find a poll made by some big company like Durex or something, but there in the "Role Playing" category, rape was the most popular fantasy with women...

It doesn't say these women actually would like to get raped, just they might like to be "willingly" raped by someone they fancy :)

This is a very touchy subject for anyone in the US, especially those of us in this industry. Although personally I find it objectionable, would I step beyond the line and say its a no-no?? *eek* .. our constitution is based on freedom of speech and expression - so I'd have to back off on it.

Do I think the individuals in charge of shooting the content and offering it for sale should SELF censor .. you bet your arse I do, if for no other reason than to consider how their actions might affect the rest of the industry.

simple summation to the exact question of the thread:
do *I* consider their material obscene - yes
would I sell it - no
would I film it - no
would I watch it - no, unfortunately I've lived the real thing - i'll pass on watching men get their jollies from such degradation.
do *I* think it should be considered illegal - NO!

Colin, you ask such a heated question but don't give your own viewpoints on it ... cmon .. spill your opinions like you ask us to lol

Juiiiicy!