N Korea warns US of pre-emptive action
 

Damn, I can't believe the US government still does not want to admit that this is a crisis situation.

Right now, it's telling every rogue countries in the world that the only way to blackmail the United States and avoid a war is by owning nuclear weapons. Don't you think that it's doing the opposite of what non-nuclear proliferation should be?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2731305.stm

they already have a nuke. So diplomacy is in order. Unless you want to see millions of people in seoul killed.

bully tactics. Baby Shrub has seized the power given to him by the people after the 9.11 incident and is running amok. simple enough.

So when will Bush stop crying about Irak and do something about N. Korea? :question

6-months after the iraq campaign is finished

we've been planning a multi-front war for several years now...prepare to see some big stuff soon :)

do you think these things just happen overnight?

naaa the embers have been warm for about 5 years now

He's doing something about Iraq so that what's happening in N. Korea doesn't happen there.

Prolly a lot of truth to that statement pr0

the Iraq campaign will not be finished for years. We will not just go in and kick ass like we did with the Kuwait occupation. We are talking about a unified nation we will be fighting, not some conscripted muslims. This shit is going to be much, much, much more difficult than everyone thinks.

the states is planning to drop more bombs in the first couple days then they did during the whole desert storm campaign. i think they're hoping that saddaam either surrenders or runs from iraq.

if not, then it may not be as clean as everyone thinks. it won't be vietnam, but it won't be like a decade ago either.

I disagree. It will be over very very fast. Iraq can offer virtually no resistance whatsoever and even they know that. Of course many troops will be over there for a LONG time to keep things stable. But the military campaign to topple Saddam should be very short and VERY sweet.

:thumbsup

Once the air campaign begins, we will have control of Iraq in less than two weeks. There will not be a long air campaign as during the first gulf war. This is going to be swift and brutal for the Iraqi's. Will we have troops stationed in Iraq for years to come? Yes.

We will deal with N Korea militarily if we must. They will not be allowed to persue building an arsenal of nukes, so if we cannot negotiate with them we will unify Korea this time around. There will be a major loss of Korean life if military action becomes necessary as well as a serious disruption of economies.

The Kurds, Sunnis, and the Sheites all have a common enemy now: the USA. The first principle of warfare is environment. the USA will lose that advatage. Leadership is 50/50. Technology is an advantage but look at Vietnam, as everyone likes to point out. America could not route a weaker foe in their own environment without full backing from the nation. An attack on Iraq will be long and drawn out.

drunk, let me guess your from canada, europe or northern california.

Driving out a nation from a foreign land is much different than over-throwing a peoples soveriegnty. Iraq has solidified just like Germany did after WWI behind Hitler. America has sanctioned the people of Iraq in much the same way. They will fight.

"Driving out a nation from a foreign land is much different than over-throwing a peoples soveriegnty. "

Last I checked, they were under the brutal rule of a dictator.

good guess. But, alas, no I am an American. A graduated from VMI with a bachelors in military science. I support whatever the Commander in Chief dictates wholeheartedly. I love war (see my previous posts). However, I never undersitimate the enemy.

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."

Sun Tzu - The Art of War
Chinese general, 500 B.C.

This is exactly why rogue states shouldn't be allowed to maintain nuclear weapons.

Can you just imagine the threat possibility?

Not very inviting...

N. Korea is a fucking nasty situation

looks like we're gonna be sitting in a few more years of 'uncertainty' unless some diplomatic shit comes through

Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world. Iraq was only formed 60 years or so ago after british demarcation. Iraq has struggled for nationlism since. Saddam has given them nationalism. Brutal rule is relative. Irqi citizen's biggest enemy is the USA. The USA is who keeps them from living the "good life" like they did in the 70s and 80s before the Iranian wars. We are their enemies, not Saddam.

Excellent point drunkmonkey. The Iraqis, under Saddam, had one of the best standards of living in the middleast, rivaling that of Saudis and Israelis. They enjoyed this standard of living all through the 1970s and 1980s. It was only after the gulf war in 1991 that they began to suffer big time, at the hand of US sanctions.

Yes Saddam is a dictator. But for millions of Iraqis he had been their greatest benefactor for almost twenty years. They view, rightly or wrongly, the US to be their greatest enemy. Don't believe all the propaganda you see on CNN - that the Iraqis want the US to "liberate them". That is bullshit. The Iraqis are going to put up a good fight. The US will still win and may still win relatively quickly. But it will in no way be some walk in the park.

True. After the Gulf war, America did not invade Iraq because they hoped for a rebellion to overthrow Saddam (America did not want to go against the UN resolution which was to liberate Kuwait and nothing more). The Kurds and the Shiites attempted but were quickly squashed. In a military aspect, Saddam is nothing to be fucked with. He commands well and knows the major aspects of leadership. He has toyed with the greatest military power the Earth has ever seen. It will not be an easy victory.

Bull fucking shit.

We are indeed talking about conscripted muslims who are being forced to fight a war they don't understand. Iraq can't feed their own army during war; Their guys surrended to CNN NEWSCREWS BECAUSE THEY WERE SO HUNGRY!

Think anything has changed in the past ten years during the sanctions? I would thing not.

This war is going to be just like Kuwait all over again - We'll kick their asses using planes and bombs before we go in.

The mother of all battles. Highly unlikely.

Then we'll take on Korea. Same thing.

Maybe then Vietnam.

Way out of your league, boy. the Kuwait occupation WAS conscripted Shiites. Saddam did not have his royal guard in the battlefield. Since the gulf war, America has driven the Iraqi people to the point of poverty. In a propaganda aspect, we are the enemy. We are not talking about driving a bunch of third class citizens from a foreign country here, we are talking about overthrowing a soveign nation which was driven to poverty because of the USA. Big fucking difference.

BS. Saddam knows virtually nothing about command or leadership when it comes to war. His troops are poorly led, poorly trained, and technologically outmatched and that is an understatement. Even if the Iraqi military wanted to stand and fight (which the bulk of them will not) they do not have the capability to fight for the reasons named above.

It will not be an easy victory.
/quote

Don't worry... they'll be reporters to surrender to. Don't get upset... :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

"That is bullshit. The Iraqis are going to put up a good fight. "


If they put up a fight like last time, then it wont be much. A whole fucking platoon surrendered to CNN.

These people just do not have the will to fight. They will put on the usual show of america is the devil bla bla bla, but once the writing is on the wall, these people will be grateful and not go the extra mile to protect a brutal dictator.


You can try and create anti war propaganda about how it will be so hard, etc etc. But compared with pretty much every other millitary action in our history, its a relatively easy job.

The funny part is this will stablize the regeion. A democratic Iraq will put a Fundamentalist Iran in check REAL quick. Plus it will reduce international terrorism against the West.

You just have to accept it. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

The understimation of your enemy is 99% of all defeats. Remember Custard? Superior firepower (technology) does not guarentee victory. The principles of war must be followed. America is behind in the major catagories. Brute force does not win wars. Intelligence and strategy are the key. I do not doubt that we can win, I only doubt that it will be quick and effortless.

Great fucking point. Overthrowing the regime is not the problem. Replacing it is. The reason Saddam has not been assasinated is because of unrest in the middle east. A democratic nation will not fly in the muslim face. A puppet government would be best, but who?

Saddam drove his people to poverty when he decided to try to conquer Kuwait. Quit kissing Saddam's ass. Because of people like you two tree huggers, the IRAQ situation is being dragged on and on while Korea is taking advantage of the situation. When you think of unrest in the world, what part of the world do you think of? When you think of terrorists, what part of the world do you think of? When you think of suicide bombers, what part of the world do you think of? It is more than OBVIOUS that the Middle East is fucked up. It was when the Middle East took their problems and came to our Homeland that the United States is doing something now. Enough is Enough. If the United States has a foot hold there, in the long run, there will be peace and prosperity. The Middle East has a lot of potential if their leaders would quit living in the stone age and get their act together. Quit complaining and open your eyes.

Maybe about the same time you learn how to spell Iraq? :1orglaugh

Here in lies the fucking idiocy of Americans. Iraq fought for the whole world against the Iranians. Nearly 11 fucking years Iraq defended the world against the revolt of Iranian upheaval. Iraq was supported by every nation on the planet. Where do you think they got chemical agents from?

After the Iranian "standoff", Iraq was left with massive debt. Everyone reliqueshed that debt except Kuwait. Iraq occupied Kuwait and "relinquished" their debt. America stepped in, like the moral police, and sanctioned Iraq. The Irqi people suffer becuause of the sanctions placed by the Americans. That is what they know and that is what they hate.

What categories might that be?

The way
Weather
Terrain
Leadership
Discipline

Yeah supported until they gassed their own fucking people. What is your reason for that? Since you know Saddam and his life so well, please share your wisdom and tell us what is he thinking when he just consciously decides to intentionally gas a couple of thousand innocent people to death.

It was Iraq that started the war with Iran. The US did support Iraq because the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

The UN stepped in like the moral police.

The Iraqi people suffer because the UN imposed sanctions against Iraq and those sanctions would have been lifted long ago if Saddam would have abided by the terms that he agreed to when he his forces were defeated on the field of battle and abided by the UN resolutions. It is Saddam that has caused the suffering of his people.

ya but his people can't put 2 and 2 together to see that. therefore they believe the states drove them to poverty.

You are full of it bub. You don't know shit about the military or military science. I am a student of war and in addition I served with the 82nd Airborne for 12 years and I fought in the first gulf war. I have first hand as well as second hand knowledge of war, our military and our military capabilities. You are just another USA hater that talks shit but doesn't know shit.

The same could be said about our own political leadership. Remember Waco? the Kurds rebelled against Saddam and he used chemical agents to kill thousands of Kurds. Nothing the Palestines, Saudi's, and just about every other middle easter country has done. The Kurds are the equivilant of the American Indians. They were gassed and killed by the thousands. Is that wrong enough for my son or brother to go and die for? What about your son or brother?

I firmly believe that we should kick everyones ass. Advancement of the human race is the ultimate goal. However, do not try and say we can do it easily. We can get our ass kicked by the Iraqi people if we do not go in thinking otherwise.

Fuck you. Tell me, oh great one, what it takes to win a war. What, whoever has the biggest gun wins? Come on, punk. Talk to me.