Lee Harvey Oswald: How Involved Was He In Killing JFK

[Vjo]

What was Lee Harvey Oswald's involvement in the John F. Kennedy assassination? (Anon)

It is all about determining the actual as well as conspiratorial involvement of one of America's most diabolical characters.

Thank you for voting and have a pleasant day/evening.

[Vjo]

I voted:

"Lee Harvey Oswald was a shooter but did not kill JFK"

After seeing the new digital Zapruder film it sure looks like JFK got hit from the front right. At 26 seconds and then the main one at 29 seconds.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

ADG

[Vjo]

lol Good stuff. I got to admit, LHO is kind of a cool character (in that shifty, slinky, wirey assassin kind of way lol)

Right up until Ruby ruined his day.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Vjo

I voted:

"Lee Harvey Oswald was a shooter but did not kill JFK"

After seeing the new digital Zapruder film it sure looks like JFK got hit from the front right. At 26 seconds and then the main one at 29 seconds.

That is what it looks like...but it is not what happened...the effect has been well documented.

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by theking

That is what it looks like...but it is not what happened...the effect has been well documented.

OK I agree and was asking about the effect in another thread cause I also heard of it. Just been a while. And I believed in the effect. But this film really shows the debris.

Actually if he is going straight west, his brains (sorry, for lack of a better term) go basicly south east. You can almost see the blood on the trunk. Which I bet had more on than the hood (which should tell the story.)

I was a lone gunman theorist all the way until seeing that tonight.

[Vjo]

I need to DL this film to do a frame by frame. (in progress) It also looks like the blood is in front of his face at the first instant, then back behind him.

Which says sayanara to the conspiracy. Lets see what full screen, frame by frame looks like.

I see its only 360p. But that is better than the old jerky, fuzzy film.

[Vjo]

OK the first blood appears to go out a foot or so in front of his face, then in the next frame it disintegrates into nothing. But the first blood is indeed in front of the face. Definitely the first red mark on film is in front but only maybe one foot max. Still the first blood goes the way of the bullet I have to believe.

Because the car is moving, they quickly overtake the blood which may explain why it apears to then mainly go back across.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by Vjo

lol Good stuff. I got to admit, LHO is kind of a cool character (in that shifty, slinky, wirey assassin kind of way lol)

Right up until Ruby ruined his day.

As a History buff (my major was in History), I read a good portion of the Warren Commission report, as well as several other books on the Kennedy assassination, but like many assassinations in history, there will probably never be a final resolution to the issue, which is why I do not get too obsessed with conspiracy theories (too many rabbit holes, and either not enough time, or better things to do with my time).

With that said, I was stationed at a Naval Air Station in Japan while I was in the Navy, and since I have a keen interest in history, I checked the base archives and found a few interesting tidbits about Oswald.

The base, named NAS (Naval Air Station) Atsugi, was a former CIA base, where Gary Powers took off from in his ill-fated U-2 flight over the USSR, where he was shot down, stirring an international incident, a few years before Oswald was stationed there.

Oswald, who joined the Marines at age 17, was stationed at Atsugi as a Marine (USMC). He was disciplined more than once while there, and he eventually obtained a hardship discharge from the Marine Corps, and shortly thereafter headed to Russia.

He tried to defect to the USSR, but eventually returned to the US, in June 1962, just a year and a few months before the Kennedy assassination. Various agencies of the US government, particularly both the FBI and CIA, were aware of Oswald's movements and he was investigated by both (some have said he was possibly an agent of one or the other agency).

In April of 1963, Oswald made an assassination attempt on retired US Army Major General Edwin Walker. Although he was shooting at a sitting (stationary) target that was only about 100 feet away, Oswald missed...

Upon his capture and arrest, for the murder of Kennedy, as well as a Dallas police officer, Oswald steadfastly denied committing the murders. He kept to this story until he himself was shot and killed at the Dallas Police Department by strip club operator Jack Ruby (whom many have suggested/suspected had mafia connections). Oswald was 24 years old when he was killed.

A few additional interesting notes:









ADG

[Vjo]

Good rundown ADG. I posted about Edwin Walker in the other JFK thread. I couldnt remember the name. I thought it was further than 100 yards. But LHO was def a trigger happy maniac.

A lot of people also had beefs with JFK, but only LHO is at the scene. They seemingly had more reason to kill JFK than LHO did but it is all make believe without forensics of some kind.

I voted wrong. I have always thought LHO was guilty as sin. I really doubt he has what it takes to be part of a conspiracy.

How was he going to escape? Seems the other guy in the manhole got abetter deal than Lee. And he doesnt seem dumb as he was on radio shows preaching lennonism ect.

He prob just seen the opportunity. And indeed, he prob just grabbed one empty bullet cartridge and took it with. Wouldnt you? Why one? Cause he planned it out and there is only time for one.

That would throw some wrenches in the prosicution. 4 sounds, three casings.

[Vjo]

[u-Bob]

[u-Bob]

[adwank]

I don't think he killed JFK

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by adwank

I don't think he killed JFK

You sound like you have something to confess, which you have been carrying around now for a very long time...it's best if you get it off your chest.

How many days since your last confession?

Do you like big butts?

ADG

[seeandsee]

Ruby killed him because he was angry?!?

[CaptainHowdy]

[_Richard_]

what's funny, is the assassination of the Vietnamese President 3 days earlier

where did that secret service dude come from? and what the hell was the wife doing?

[Tom_PM]

IMHO, he did it, he did it alone, he practiced doing it, he trained to do it and Jack Ruby is a huge fucker for robbing the country of due process.

[The Porn Nerd]

Vjo! What a conspiracy theorist ye shall be, ye? Or something.

Oswald was, as he himself put it when he was arrested and before he was shot by Jack Ruby: "a Patsy."

Fun Fact: Patsy's Pizza in NYC is fabulous.

[fatfoo]

I have no idea how this killing happened.

[pornguy]

Check the photos on rotten.com they have them with the trajectory rods in his body. he was shot 4 or more times from different positions.

The first shot was a neck shot.. Just as he passes the sign you see him reach to his throat.. She slides over and partially in font of him. That show went in from the side. the second shot is almost from in front of him hitting him in the forehead. You see the spray and his head go back. there is NO way for the shooter to have moved from a side shot to a front shot like that. It had to be more than 1 person.

[bobby666]

more interesting is: who will shoot at george bush

[CDSmith]

If anyone here actually knew with 100% certainty who did it and how it was done you'd already be dead I'm sure. How's that for a conspiracy theory? :D


Personally, based on all that I've seen and studied on the event, I believe the Warren Commision was largely a sham, done to apease the public but little else. I believe that Oswald was indeed a "patsy" as he put it. The shots have been proven to have come from multiple trajectories, no one single person could have pulled it off. That is simply inarguable fact so I'm not sure why some continue to think he acted alone.

Of course, if a modern forensics team were to have access to the bullets and other materials and evidence from the case I'm sure all would be revealed and all misinformation debunked and the names of those truly responsible outted in short order. Unfortunately that won't happen, at least not until what, 2040 or thereabouts when that information is set to be unsealed.

[Vjo]

47 years ago right now at 1:00 pm CST (3rd Friday of Nov.) Lee Harvey Oswald had already been back to his little rented room and grabbed a 38 Special revolver pistol.

30 minutes ago at 12:30pm CST he had just put the well honed in scope from his 6.5 x 52 mm Italian Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle to the back of the head of the President of the United States and pulled the trigger up to 4 times.



He will leave behind 3 casings. The previous March, the Carcano rifle had been bought by Oswald under the name "A. Hidell" and delivered to a post office box Oswald rented in Dallas.

It is now 12:30pm CST. Kennedy’s limousine enters Dealey Plaza and slowly approaches the Texas School Book Depository.

Nellie Connally, then the First Lady of Texas, turns around to Kennedy, who was sitting behind her and comments, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you." President Kennedy acknowledges.

The Presidential limousine turns and passes the texas school Book Depository and continues down Elm Street. Suddenly shots are fired at Kennedy. A clear majority of witnesses recall hearing three shots.

All hell breaks loose.

At 1:02 pm (approx) Roy Truly, the supervisor at the Depository, has just talked to Dallas Police to report that LHO was missing from work and within moments an All Points Bulletin was put out for the arrest and detention of Lee Harvey Oswald.



Perhaps minutes, even seconds before their upcoming fateful meeting, Officer Tippit will receive an APB over his classic 1963 Motorola police radio.

It is now 1:05pm, for some reason LHO does not stay in his room but quickly leaves on foot with the pistol. He is now in the Oak Hills section of Dallas and many blocks from Dealey Plaza.



In moments he will be spotted by Officer J.D. Tippit who is on patrol in his Ford patrol car.

It is now approximately 1:11–1:14 pm. Tippit is driving slowly eastward on East 10th Street in Oak Cliff. Suddenly about 100 feet (30 m) past the intersection of 10th Street and Patton Avenue he spots someone fitting the description.

He pulls alongside Lee Harvey Oswald, who is walking in the same direction.

Oswald, who resembles the broadcast description walks over to the car and exchanges words with Tippit through the open vent window. Tippit opens the door on the left side and starts to walk around to the front of his car.



As Tippit reaches the front wheel on the driver's side, Oswald draws a revolver
and fires several shots in rapid succession, hitting Tippit three times in the chest. He then walks up to Tippit's fallen body and shoots him directly in the head, killing him instantly.



Helen Markham witnesses the shooting and sees a man with a gun in his hand leaving the scene. Markham identifies Lee Harvey Oswald as Tippit’s killer in a police lineup she views that evening.

Barbara Jeanette Davis and her sister-in-law Virginia Davis hear the shots and see the killer crossing their lawn and shaking a revolver as if he were emptying it of cartridge cases. Later each woman findsd a cartridge case near the scene and submitts them to police.

On the evening of November 22, Barbara Jeanette Davis and Virginia Davis view a group of four men in a lineup and each one picks Lee Harvey Oswald as the man who crossed their lawn while emptying his pistol.

Oswald will quickly leave and go into the nearby Texas Theatre without buying a ticket.



This immediately draws attention to him from staff in the theatre. Dallas Police now enter the Theatre after being tipped off.



Lead officer M.N. McDonald spots Lee Harvey Oswald in this seat and approachs Oswald.



Oswald resists, attempts shooting the arresting officer with his 38 pistol, and is struck and forcibly restrained.

The Smith & Wesson "Victory" Model .38 Special revolver, serial number V510210, that Oswald has in his hands now eighty minutes after the assassination, is identified by model and serial number as the one purchased by mail order to the same P.O. Box as the rifle, and also by an “A.J. Hidell”, with handwriting that matches Oswald’s.

Oswald is forcibly removed from the Texas Theatre.



Oswald is charged with the murders of officer J.D. Tippit and president John F. Kennedy.

Oswald denys shooting anyone and claims he was a patsy and was arrested because he had lived in the Soviet Union.

Oswald's case will never come to trial because two days later, while being escorted to a car for transfer from Dallas Police Headquarters to the Dallas County Jail, he will be shot and killed by Dallas nightclub owner Jack Ruby.





In 1969 looking the same as 1963



Facinating, and Oswald's timeline after the shooting is something I always wanted to explore.

Today with help from http://wikipedia.com I made it happen. Obcession.

Present tense prose created and changed by me. Facts and pics from Wiki.

Thanks everyone for voting. Kind of surprising results so far.

[ottopottomouse]

Scapegoat.

[Vjo]

here we go, seek and you shall easily find now days

someone retraced Oswalds steps on video, very interesting



JD Tippit coverage on local news



witnesses





There is a ton of interesting JFK assassination and conspiracy stuff on YT. But some of it gets a little dicey posting.

But the more I look into it the more I see what many of the (Oswald is a patsy) voters have seen.

Anyhow, I have flip flopped twice so I dont know.

One things for sure (it seems), LHO was doing a lot of running around and IF he didnt kill Tippit he sure had a lot of explaining to do.

First question: "So Lee, did you decide to take the day off and go see a movie?"

[Vjo]

This page has a ton of interesting stuff:

John F. Kennedy Assassination Rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F....sination_rifle

On the odds of Oswald hitting the target..

"Many of CBS's 11 volunteer marksmen, who (unlike Oswald) had no prior experience with a properly "sighted" Carcano, were able to hit the test target two times in under the time allowed.

The only man who scored three hits was a firearms examiner from Maryland by the name of Howard Donahue.

The CBS test is disputed by Michael Griffith, who says: "In the CBS rifle test, not one of the eleven expert shooters scored two hits on the first attempt, and seven of them failed to do so on any attempt."

So even the tests have two sides.

[machinegunkelly]

I love that Black ops comes out and 3 JFK threads get started this week LOL

[adamz]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Scapegoat.

Agreed, the "Single bullet theory" (aka Magic Bullet) is about as fishy as it gets.

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by machinegunkelly

I love that Black ops comes out and 3 JFK threads get started this week LOL

I do suddenly have this interest lately

Nah I just like History. In fact YOU should have stayed out of Indiana. Spent more time in Wisconsin like John Dillinger and the boyz did.

I keep thinking you died in the field in Indiana and were a member of JD's gang but I think I have you confused with a cohort. Wiki says you went to Alcatraz.

Ok I have you mixed up with Baby Face Nelson. Who did go down in field in Indiana. Sorry for the confusion.

[Argos88]

you are not including the biggest FACT about the ASSASINATION of JFK..

We all know that CIA killed him...

PERIOD.
..

[SallyRand]

The so-called "Magic Bullet Theory" is fallicaious and fails when the difference in height between the rear seat of the car and the much lower jump seat on which Connally was sittingas well as Coannally's relative inboard seating position are taken into consideration.

http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_...llet-fact.html

What the "Magic Bullet Theory" describes:



The Actual seating positions of JFK and Connally:



In case linking goes down, you can find the images at the link posted above.

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Vjo! What a conspiracy theorist ye shall be, ye? Or something.

Oswald was, as he himself put it when he was arrested and before he was shot by Jack Ruby: "a Patsy."

Fun Fact: Patsy's Pizza in NYC is fabulous.

MP, I would have pegged you a lone gunman kind of guy all the way. j/k

So were the 3 old ladies (well not that old) who id'd Oswald seeing things. Could be. I suppose some little Oswald looking guy was running around.

I look at the look on those sherrifs face. LHO may have been on some mind trip (or whatever) but those sheriffs looked as sober and serious as a heart attack.

And to everyone, wtf was LHO doing running around like a nut with a gun when he should have been working.

I mean to say that LHO was not involved at all means there was two LHO's running around. Heavon forbid. Or the real one was kidnapped.

Because someone who looks like LHO was pulled out of the Theatre. Classic pics from 1963 dont lie.

Oh man it is getting sinister.

[Vjo]

I believe Oswald is Guilty of something based on his actions that day or the real Lee Harvey Oswald was replaced.

Simple as that. Simple logic.

I dont buy drugs.

I dont buy mind controll.

I dont buy multi person conspiracy which Oswald was part of through meetings.

But I do buy replacing him. Makes total sense.

My focus from the first was focusing solely on factual evidence on LHO. (or someone posing as LHO) He is the big as life piece of balistics.

The pics speak for themselves. Lee Harvey Oswald or someone posing as LHO was up to lots of shit that day.

[theking]

All of the hard evidence in the case points to Oswald and there is not any hard evidence that points to anyone else being involved...only speculation.

All of the hard evidence has been explained and well documented...only speculation exists about this.

KISS...applies here...but people will continue to speculate...and some always seem...for whatever their agenda/reasons are...to prefer "conspiracy"?

[Vjo]

That pic I just found today, and didnt know existed until today, showing "this person" being taken out of the Texas Theatre, may be the hardest to dispute. It places someone looking like LHO (in essence) in the crime scene.

Prima facie proof: Some little guy looking like LHO was up to no good.

Thus, back to Guilty or Replaced.



The only REAL eyewitness acct is that pic.

The ladies and witnesses is hearsay under oath. prob true but hearsay. But that pic says, Hello Lee!" (or Lee Imposter) "What's you be doing at the Theatre today, sucka."

He should have left town first thing. But no, he is out walking around.

[CaptainHowdy]

Overall, death killed JFK...

[Vjo]

Until someone can dispute my "Oswald or Imposter" theory, based on that Prima Facie Theatre pic which places "the guy in all the Oswald pics" in the Theatre, I rest my case.

See you in 2032





Maybe, for Lee Harvey Oswald it actually was a

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by theking

All of the hard evidence in the case points to Oswald and there is not any hard evidence that points to anyone else being involved...only speculation.

All of the hard evidence has been explained and well documented...only speculation exists about this.

KISS...applies here...but people will continue to speculate...and some always seem...for whatever their agenda/reasons are...to prefer "conspiracy"?

Amen.

Very wide spread gap as almost 1/2 think LHO did NOT shoot at JFK. Thus, they feel someone else was in that corner window shooting.

Perhaps they believe noone was shooting from the window, not sarcastic, that is a poss altho a bit remote.

About all I can tell you.

You realize, if LHO was not a shooter, there then had to be a body double, because a body double was captured running around.

About all I can say.

1/2 of the voters do not think Lee Harvey Oswald shot at John F. Kennedy.

Very interesting and quite surprising.

[The Porn Nerd]

Oh I think Oswald was "involved" in some way, but probably as a scapegoat/distraction from "the real gunmen". Okay, oswald shoots but there's a second gunman, around the infamous Grassy Knoll, who's there to make fucking SURE that bastard Kenedy was hit, and hit good.

But the idea was to pin it on the pasty, LHO. With his history - defecting, living in Russia, his work on behalf of Castro - he was the perfect patsy. Naive Americans - and one must remember how spoon-fed, naive and "innocent" most Americans were back in 1963, pre-assasination/pre-Beatles - would eat it up. A simple explanation always eases the simple mind.

The only reason 100% of Americans didn't believe the whole affair was because of the Zapruder film. No film = yup, Oswald did it, let's move on. The Gov't's cockamamie explanation didn't wash once people actually SAW JFK's brains being blown out.

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Oh I think Oswald was "involved" in some way, but probably as a scapegoat/distraction from "the real gunmen". Okay, oswald shoots but there's a second gunman, around the infamous Grassy Knoll, who's there to make fucking SURE that bastard Kenedy was hit, and hit good.

But the idea was to pin it on the pasty, LHO. With his history - defecting, living in Russia, his work on behalf of Castro - he was the perfect patsy. Naive Americans - and one must remember how spoon-fed, naive and "innocent" most Americans were back in 1963, pre-assasination/pre-Beatles - would eat it up. A simple explanation always eases the simple mind.

The only reason 100% of Americans didn't believe the whole affair was because of the Zapruder film. No film = yup, Oswald did it, let's move on. The Gov't's cockamamie explanation didn't wash once people actually SAW JFK's brains being blown out.

Good points. So I take it you feel he was prob in the window?

Approx 50% of voters believe he was not in the window.

What do you make of the fact that 50% do not think he even fired a shot?

Anyhow it is all a diversion from what I need to do and just got done doing...

HOUSEWORK. God it never ends. Dusting, vaacuum.. Vacuum dusting. I wish I had a 6' by 12 ' room like our buddy Lee had. That is all you need.

[Vjo]

Actually I think there is a conspiracy against me!

All 19 voters got together and..

Nah, but obviously they have seen something we "Oswald is Guilty" guys didnt. Like maybe the bullet holes thing at Rotten.com .. I will prob skip that but what does that prove either? Maybe someone took the body and shot it post corpeous or whatever.

The only proof is the wirey, squirrel coming out in the arms of Cops from the Texas Theatre on classic film.

PS. I burnt the rump roast too over all this. But Ill simmer it and make fajitas. You have a 3 min window to cook that boot leather.

[Vjo]

And that is EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know about Lee Harvey Oswald!

You are wrong old, outdated lone gunman breath.

You mean there is more?

[Mutt]

Oswald and Oswald alone - people want a better story, a sexy conspiracy - the same people believe Martians were running around Roswell and that 9/11 was an inside job.

[Vjo]

anybody here seen my old friend John

[Vjo]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Oswald and Oswald alone - people want a better story, a sexy conspiracy - the same people believe Martians were running around Roswell and that 9/11 was an inside job.

Agreed Mutt, but 50%? I think a lot of younger folks got some history from my timeline I posted which was a big reason for posting it. Not to be be condescending. I didnt know that at 25 and it is interesting the first time. We old foges all know the story but I bet a few are learning today. Which is good.

But yeah, 50% of voters think LHO did not fire at the Pres. Did they vote from knowledge or is it knee-jerk cause it's hip. So far I dont see anyone justifying their vote to "aquit" Oswald. Now that doesnt mean he didnt kill Tippit and not fire at Kennedy I suppose (yeah right) but it is really surprising.

Unless there is a body double who posed for all the pics, old Lee was the guy popping shots in the window.

[Vjo]

Guilty or Replacement

[Vjo]

something for my (and your) head after all this investigative reporting



Are YOU still with me

Bless you with big signups. Sometimes you need to let her ride and have a popsicle in this biz. Hence my posting binge.

When sups are up you enter the tavern and let her ride. When sups are down you do the same thing. In the middle you work

[directfiesta]

full explanation: