I'd imagine pornhubpremium , tnaflixpremium, etc is generating 1000s and 1000s of signups a day for moviebox, vidz, etc, which lease content if I am not mistaken. There are business models that work with tubes, but it only works for a few big players (as Choker already mentioned). As someone said, even if and when tubes are forced to go legal, the good old days in regards to ratio's for small players will not return, content will still get created though, because money is still being made.

My 2 cents - you wont like.. but you should have seen this coming 15 YEARS ago.

Think about it, in the first days of adult sites i heard of stories of people putting up 50 picture sets and making a paysite out of that - they made 60,000$ a month.

Why - because their was no porn to be found on the net at that time, so people had to pay for it.

And now, we dont just have tube sites, we have the millions of blogs, rapidshare and mega upload giving away videos and WHOLE paysites for free, tgps, mgps - if you cant find free porn your a fucking idiot.

So porn everywhere on the internet = shit sales.

The more free content, the less sales. simple.

And to conclude my point, here is the future of porn...

No paysite memberships, porn will only be used as a way to attract surfers to a website, to make money on paid ads like adbrite or whatever... bank it.. thats where we heading ;)

Yes. Exactly what I was thinking. The same will happen for domains, content, programming, etc too. Think of all the small and medium sized affiliates buying domains or scripts. Imagine all of them leaving the market. It's easy to see what will likely happen. And this forum too. Why pay for advertising when it's just 100 people trading X-sales and patting each other on the back? Affiliates and potential customers were why people bought ads here. Not much point when they no longer exist or are no longer profitable.

I agree. Though some will still be able to survive by being exclusive and vigorously protecting their content but it will not be easy. The thing is that as a whole this new model is literally pennies on the dollar compared to what we used to have.

Our paysites are still doing ok & we are still shooting new content. Looking forward to christmas footage, as Natalie & I usually find a day in the week to enjoy a bottle of wine & shoot different scenes for the film with the tree & decorations up... It makes a nice day of work :thumbsup

Im hoping that tube sites shall fall so theres not so much free content, giving paysites mor of a chance of make it bigger, sadly, I think there shall alway be enough content to provide unseen footage to the tubes :(

I agree. Though some will still be able to survive by being exclusive and vigorously protecting their content but it will not be easy. The thing is that as a whole this new model is literally pennies on the dollar compared to what we used to have.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, the glory days are gone. Looks like i missed out!

Look at the web - whats the biggest shit right now? Social sites if you ask me - youtube, facebook - social interactivity?

Whats a tube site? Social porn.

So cmon steve lightspeed and all you other old school players, prove you didnt just get lucky by jumping into porn before i was born - reinvent this shit.

If i was in the big players position, instead of trying to stop progress i would be looking for a way to exploit it.

Well, we can see from this thread a shit ton of people still shoot porn. I'll add to the list, Topbucks still shoots/updates with fresh content.

Most of the major tubes, if not all have purchased $100k (and often more) worth of dvd content... and everyone one of them sells out of every ad slot they have, month over month, year after year.

It might be the same few big companies, same few paysites, same few products that buy over and over from tubes. But it's not because they'are the ones that can convert them, it's because they are the ones that can afford the tube's ad costs. Some of these tubes are bringing in more money than entire programs - yes profiting more!

To outsell the tube, you have to sell a better product than the tube... once you do that, the game changes.

Gary, please post a link to just one of your films being stolen on a tube, a torrent, rapidshare, usenet, private ftp, anything.

Just one link.

The problem you have is your content isn't even worth stealing.

The tubes aren't really "selling" anything though. They are giving away what used to be the product for free and instead generating revenue for pennies on the dollar with prepaid advertising from non-pay sites. Essentially it's trading the profitability of the pay site product itself for a greater share of non-paysite revenue.

You can't compete by "selling" a better product. You have to be willing to give it away and play the same game or move on to a different product which has not been devalued. In a way it would be much like running a lemonade stand and selling lemonade for 50 cents a cup. Then some asshole sets up shop right next to you and starts giving it away free. It's basically the same situation.

You set up a stand giving away crap quality hamburgers. I will set up a stand next to you selling kobe beef.

Sure, you will get more people who want free shit at your stand. I will get more people with money who appreciate quality. Mine will be repeat customers.

This is true but with one caveat. If the other guy can simply steal your higher quality product and still offer it for free, having better quality products does you no good. If you read my posts in this topic, that is what I've been saying over and over. Few will pay for your kobe beef if some asshole set up a shop next to you and is giving it away free.

I think humankind already has enough porn for about million future years.

About the dumbest post here.

Any dumb fuck couldn't make money from porn 15 years ago. It took the adult Internet for that to happen.

Magazine sets were worth $3,000 a time. Are you saying we got away with shooting what wasn't good enough?

Really? You posted saying that people made more money from porn before the internet existed the other week. I called you out on it then, laughing at your continued public stupidity.

You admitted here the other day your content isn't good enough.

Spot on. The flood of free porn really got going once the Internet took off. Until then it was a minor part of the business. Those working on the adult Internet chuckled that it was harming the other parts of the porn business. Now the smile has been wiped off their faces.

100% spot on.

But how many sponsors do you see doing a better product?

Some have great videos, but it's still only videos. Sponsors need to think beyond "A place to get videos" today.

Once you have a better product it's worth protecting. If all you have is "A girl on a sofa" type content it's not worth protecting because Tubes have it in bucket loads. The surfer on a Tube won't jerk off to yours. He'll jerk off to someone elses.

But why should a better product be just something that can be downloaded? Live shows, live chat, interaction with models, can all raise the standard of a porn membership.

Or we just carry on doing as we have done and watch the ship continue to sink.

http://www.eastoncontent.com :thumbsup

And you have figures that prove otherwise? Stop displaying your limited knowledge of the porn industry.

Yes for 2010 it's not good enough and I keep saying that. But people keep buying it and they were buying enough of it for me to retire.

But you're too stupid to see that.

I'm still laughing at your continued public stupidity.

Still living in a rented crappy flat, loser?

lol - best. Reply. Ever.

A good point - thats where the biz is heading in case no one can see it - Webcams. Live interactivity.

Or at least where you can still make money in this business..

I tried selling pictures of random mens penises and no one bought them :(

not worth it...

Paul, which is it? On the other board you said no one on the internet made any money in online porn and now you are claiming they do.

Which of those contrary claims are you wanting me to find figures for?

The one you said here, or the one you said there?

Yet you keep selling it? I don't get this unethical act. You admit the content isn't good enough for 2010, yet it is 2010 and in your sig you are selling it still?

Crazy marketing. I kinda like it.

My stuff is shit. Please buy it.

If you are so rich and have retired why:

a) Do you beg for money here?
b) Still post here everyday to fly your sig?


Yup. You taken any pictures of any 16 year old girls lately?

"A teacher has to have an iron will to resist these adolescents " Paul Markham

"they suggested I teach 15 to 18 year olds. If you've ever seen 15 to 18 year old Czech girls you will understand why I think it's a bad idea. " Paul Markham

"I'll ask our neighbor the mayor if I can take a picture of his 16 year old daughter " Paul Markham

An Internet site is so adaptable it's a wonder so few in porn do it.

In 2007 the game changed 180 degrees. As free porn via Tubes really took off it became self evident that what we were selling was not going to compete. Not just me dumbnuts Damian most of us.

The harsh truth is we were selling cheap hamburgers in a glossy box and a months recurring supply of them.

Tubes were giving them away, yes in less clarity, with nothing to pay, no membership, more variety, more selection, more content and without the risk of getting ripped off.

So how many changed their sites to compete with the new threat. How many stepped up the quality of their product. How many included something other than videos and pictures in their sites. How many varied the shooter supplying their sites. And how many supplied Tubes with free content in the hope of getting some traffic?

It's not that we moved up to selling Kobe beef, we kept on supplying cheap hamburgers and gave those giving them away more meat. :upsidedow

With businessmen like that, no wonder the Adult Internet is where it is today.

Q: What tubes buy content and put full movies on it(?)
A: *********************

Pretty sure all of them do. Hell three years ago I was buying full scenes licensed for tube sites for $5 a pop.

I miss the POV´s :(

true :2 cents::1orglaugh

We shoot weekly!

every shooter that says he shoots more than ever now, hasn't worked much in the past


(c) MaDalton, 2010

Most of the major tubes have membership areas, sell products branded to them, have many white labels, use social networks, emails, sell mobile and they have ads... each of the unique major tubes produces 100's of new sales daily.

Many people already sell a better product and that product has no problem selling.

Then my lemonade stand will give away ice, a nicer glass, an ac/headed room, tv's/sports, or maybe spike the drinks with some soft ass chairs. Just like the festivals giving away free food/beer, yet every restaurant and bar on the street is full - the result of mass amounts of people showing up to a single place - they will do all types of shit, even things you don't expect.

Stefan, that's probably true for many, but not in every case. I got in the biz in 1991 and my (incomplete) filmography of 119+ feature adult movies listed on iafd.com & imdb.com starts as far back as 1993. I have since shot many, many times that number of individual scenes & shoots of various kinds, mostly for internet distribution that are not cataloged anywhere. I can assure you that I am shooting more new girls, shoots and shoot days in 2010 than I ever did in 90's or 00's when the business was transitioning from pro-am and feature oriented movies released on VHS, DVD & tv to the internet boom including reality porn, solo-girl, soft & hard content and Ex-GF content.

jesus, Jim, why do have to post your whole resume every time you make a post :winkwink:

And this is true... but with one caveat. Offering a product for free, and offering a similar product at $24.99 for a monthly subscription are two extreme opposites of the spectrum. There's a middle-ground in which people will part with their money, because searching for the free stuff - and risking the security of their machine (viruses, trojans, Active-X exploits, etc) is too much of a pain in the ass to save a few bucks.

Hulu Premium is now priced at $7.99 / month.

I think that price is the future of the recurring model.

not true ma...

Ive had content stolen & placed on youjizz, jizzhut & a few others before now. With a few emails icq & calls, I had the footage removed...

Oh, & our content is damn good! Great stories, great camera angles & camera work. Decent lighting & nice quality playback...

Not that its to do with you, but im pretty fed up with you commenting on every post I make, stalking us & trolling GFY threads, you weird little boy!

I'm shooting all new dead fish content, and it kicks ass!

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/m...h_1207265i.jpg

why shoot (pay) when they can steal (free)

You have to consider what they were doing in the past first and when that past was.

Here's a closer statement. "Every shooter who says he makes more money now made very little in the past."

And here's another one. "Every shooter who worked exclusive for the Internet until 2007 either wasn't good enough or to dumb to work elsewhere."

Here's why the second statement is true.
Until 2007 there was still a magazine market worth selling to. In fact until later there was. A market that a US sale would pay $2,000 for a solo girl set, the same set sold in the UK for $1,000. Then there was EU, Japan and AU. Then there was second rights and on top of that it could be brokered via companies like Photorama, who still send us checks.

Turn the clock back to 2005 and there were 5 UK companies all buying sets, in the US about 7. In EU there was all the countries with there own magazines, small money that mounted up. The sales on a stills set were great. Unless the sets were crap.

The situation in the video market was similar. A boy girl scene shot for a video company would sell for $5,000 to $25,000 and the market was much bigger. Unless the video was really crap.

I never shot a lot of video after Astral Blue was closed down by the local trading standards. A local council organisation. Because a good BG or multi girl set would sell in the UK and US for around $3,000 each. $6,000 in total.

Was it tough to sell to these areas?
No. For magazines you bought the magazine. Studied what it published, shot some sets and made a phone call to go see the editors. Rarely did I have one say no to seeing me. You know how easy it is to go onto a stand at the Berlin show and introduce yourself. Then show your work. You can telephone them and see them in their offices as well.

Flying to the US with a suitcase full of slide sets, about 20, would result in a $30,000 to $40,000 turn over and open the door for me to post sets after that. With a briefcase of discs with digital sets it was even easier.

Was it tough to shoot for these markets?
Well not according to BM Bradly. Any dumb fuck could do it. I certainly could. Was it tough to focus and light a set properly. Well not that tough, I could do it. If you couldn't you really were a dumb fuck. Was it tough to shoot a set? Well if it was thank you for the accolades because I could do it. :thumbsup So if you couldn't do it, according to BM B you weren't even clever enough to be a dumb fuck.

The downside was you had to wait until publication to get paid. Which often meant waiting 4-6 months for a check after the shoot day. You had to pay all the costs of the shoot and wait for your money. Investing in a days work to return $6,000, for two sets we still own, in 4-6 months is far better than working for an Internet company who will pay $2,000 for the days work, the shooter no longer owns. you have to be living check to check to prefer that.

AM I LIVING IN THE PAST?
Like everyone here I to would love to turn the clock back to 2005.

Just another thought occurred to me. This market was also open to sites shooting for themselves. So a shoot day that cost $1,000 to $5,000 could return a healthy profit from non Internet sales.

Staying busy here as well and even launched a new paysite http://jayspovsite.com/home.html

yet another hilarious thread filled with paul's posts.

hey JayRock, that's a great site! What camera do you shoot with?