Manwin and Pink Visual Answer Your Digital Finger Printing/Filtering Questions

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  • PR_Dave
    Confirmed User
    • Jul 2003
    • 2792

    #181
    You guys should just turn off user submitting, problem solved.

    Comment

    • DWB
      Registered User
      • Jul 2003
      • 31779

      #182
      Originally posted by borked
      it's actually based on binary hashing originally, to circumvent compression technologies which is stripping down an images components by converting RGB to YCbCr format for hash extraction eg

      Comment

      • V_RocKs
        Damn Right I Kiss Ass!
        • Nov 2003
        • 32447

        #183
        OK... Asking Pink about this one...

        Go here:
        http://www.spankwire.com/Couples-Sed...r/video217968/

        Your video in its entirety and no ads for you anywhere.

        How is this making you revshared money with the FSC?

        Comment

        • SiMpLe
          Confirmed User
          • Feb 2002
          • 3221

          #184
          Originally posted by Nathan
          I am not your lawyer, or rather, your company's lawyer. So I am not here to explain DMCA law to you, sorry.

          Also, this thread is not about DMCA and why we do what we do.
          My question to you is why does Manwin accept this type of content when it's clearly pirated. Or are you simply stating your companies model is to simply hide behind the flawed DMCA law.

          Your about to show your true colors here Nathan - Bring it.
          Sean Holland
          Vice President
          OrbitalPay / Global Electronic Technology (GET)
          SKYPE: iam.sean ::: sholland at orbitalpay.com
          888-775-1500

          Comment

          • SiMpLe
            Confirmed User
            • Feb 2002
            • 3221

            #185
            Originally posted by PR_Dave
            You guys should just turn off user submitting, problem solved.

            winrar
            Sean Holland
            Vice President
            OrbitalPay / Global Electronic Technology (GET)
            SKYPE: iam.sean ::: sholland at orbitalpay.com
            888-775-1500

            Comment

            • V_RocKs
              Damn Right I Kiss Ass!
              • Nov 2003
              • 32447

              #186
              Actually... Nathan has already stated his intent to use the flaws in the law to make money on other peoples content. He is asking that everyone else also create a tube and use his content so its all bro hugs around.

              Comment

              • Nautilus
                Confirmed User
                • Sep 2002
                • 1631

                #187
                Originally posted by borked
                Well, it isn't actually pixel by pixel
                It surely isn't But try telling people that it's actually based on binary hashing originally, to circumvent compression technologies which is stripping down an images components by converting RGB to YCbCr format for hash extraction eg, and you'll understand why I described it as pixel by pixel comparing of the two images or videos.

                Once people get the idea, they can understand it further, that it doesn't have to be a pixel by pixel thing, you can do something more smart and less CPU hungry. But not the other way around - I tried to explain what the DFP is several times to several different people and it never worked unless I started of by saying "well it's like comparing two images pixel by pixel to see if they match".

                To add to the confusion, most people tend to think that DFP is the thing that Hollywood uses to watermark their new releases to see what cinema it leaked from to torrents. And you need to explain that it aint so too, digital watermarking and digital fingerprinting are different things.

                And yet another group of people think that DFP is something similar to MD5 hash signature and could be easily circumvented by making small changes to a file.

                By no means DFP is an easy sell

                It's not really very CPU intensive though - what is (and bandwidth intensive too) is detecting it, once the video has "gone out"
                Yep that's what I meant - detecting videos is CPU intensive, because you need to compare every downloaded video with every protected video that is in your database (it could be millions of the protected videos for all I know, now go compare that with every single tube vid that is out there).

                BTW, if you have any good DFP links, please post them either here on in your educational thread.
                .
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                • Nathan
                  Confirmed User
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 3108

                  #188
                  Originally posted by SiMpLe
                  My question to you is why does Manwin accept this type of content when it's clearly pirated. Or are you simply stating your companies model is to simply hide behind the flawed DMCA law.

                  Your about to show your true colors here Nathan - Bring it.
                  simple,

                  I have no way of knowing if the uploader does or does not have the rights to do so. If the uploader claims he does, however he claims he got them, he has the right to upload it. Unless we have "red flag knowledge".

                  You can call this hiding behind a "flawed" law if you want. I think its not a flawed law, it exists for a very good reason. We have a lot of people uploading content that truly is theirs. We own a lot of content licenses ourselves. We own a lot of exclusive content ourselves.

                  @V_Rocks, 7th July, this is from even before we bought Spankwire in the first place... not sure what you are trying to say...
                  "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
                  - Charlie Munger

                  Comment

                  • V_RocKs
                    Damn Right I Kiss Ass!
                    • Nov 2003
                    • 32447

                    #189
                    http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=718901646
                    45 minutes of another customers videos and no possibly way to give the owner their revshare.

                    Comment

                    • V_RocKs
                      Damn Right I Kiss Ass!
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 32447

                      #190
                      I am wondering what the point of this technology is if it doesn't seem to be working... I looked at the customer list of the FSC content owners and I am seeing tons of their stuff in full size on your tubes. I thought this was automatic?

                      If it isn't then what did it fix? What is the point of it?

                      Comment

                      • Allison
                        Confirmed User
                        • Jul 2001
                        • 2068

                        #191
                        Originally posted by borked
                        May I ask the OP what algorithm they are using to generate their visual hashing db for cross-checking?

                        And don't come back with "it's proprietary" since all this technology is public domain having been developped by public-funded researchers...

                        I have all 28 of the major papers describing different ways and each has their major advantages and major flaws....

                        Just the paper's authors names is all I require

                        thanks
                        From Vobile: "Sounds like he is confusing fingerprinting technology, which is what we use, with hashing, which is an entirely different technology. "
                        Allison
                        President
                        TopBucks.com| PinkVisual.com|
                        [email protected]
                        Follow Me on Twitter:
                        http://www.twitter.com/PV_Alli

                        ICQ: 120353154

                        Check out PVLocker.com

                        Comment

                        • Nathan
                          Confirmed User
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 3108

                          #192
                          Originally posted by V_RocKs
                          I am wondering what the point of this technology is if it doesn't seem to be working... I looked at the customer list of the FSC content owners and I am seeing tons of their stuff in full size on your tubes. I thought this was automatic?

                          If it isn't then what did it fix? What is the point of it?
                          V, _READ_ the press release. It says "has agreed to implement ? and is already testing ?"... where does it say anything about it already running at 100% right now on all our tubes?
                          "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
                          - Charlie Munger

                          Comment

                          • RycEric
                            Confirmed User
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 1313

                            #193
                            Originally posted by Nathan
                            Uhm, I said "we"... so "we" are too big of a company... You think when I talk about myself I say "we"??

                            We = Manwin.
                            Dude.. you just said you work direct with the FBI. I have several on speed dial. That's bullshit.

                            Comment

                            • Nathan
                              Confirmed User
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 3108

                              #194
                              Originally posted by RycEric
                              Dude.. you just said you work direct with the FBI. I have several on speed dial. That's bullshit.
                              uhm.. Eric, I said _WE_.. what is so hard to understand here? You think I call the FBI myself? You kidding me or something?
                              "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
                              - Charlie Munger

                              Comment

                              • Allison
                                Confirmed User
                                • Jul 2001
                                • 2068

                                #195
                                Originally posted by Robbie
                                Allison, something I'm kinda wondering about...
                                I DO protect my stuff. Been doing it for a while. Haven't had even one of my high res/high quality streams ripped and put up on a pirate site. That's after two years (and dozens of "experts" on GFY telling my it wouldn't work and it would be hacked and blah-blah).

                                But the ongoing problem still concerns my older stuff that's out there. The stuff I put out on .wmv in the first place and that I foolishly released on DVD. I have to keep removeyourcontent searching for that all the time because it comes up over and over and over.

                                How does "fingerprinting" help you in that way? For instance...Pink Visual already has a huge DVD catalog out there. And tons of stuff that has been pirated, I'd dare say your entire catalog.

                                I'm assuming that the "fingerprinting" will only have effect on the files that you NOW have had processed (if someone rips one and uploads the "Fingerprinted" one). But everything up until now is still out there (your members areas, your DVD rips, etc.)

                                Also, it would seem to me that as long as you're still releasing hard copy DVD's and not taking measures to keep your content in the members area on the paysites...then any of the thousands of bit torrent, rapidshare, megaupload, fileshare, and tubes that don't play by the rules are still going to be pirating you and devaluing your content?

                                What's your specific strategy for Top Bucks to combat those aspects (which are even more damaging than even Pornhub)?

                                As a long time affiliate of Top Bucks I'd kinda like to know if there is a chance that I can start converting the sites again.

                                By the way...does Kevin still own Top Bucks? Last I heard his name was a couple of years ago when he was going to meet some friends of mine down in South America. Just curious if it's still his company and how he's doing. Haven't seen him in person since 2002.
                                Hi Robbie,

                                Whether it's DVD content, WMV content or any other form that was previously release the same exact benefits exist.

                                So we took our entire library on our server side (other companies could ship drives or DVD's if they wanted to I believe) & had a finger print created on the fly. The finger print is not stored in the video or DVD file, it's a separate file stored in Vobile's database.

                                We got all our finger printing around March of 2010 and it took just a few days. We also now automatically add a finger print every time we update our sites with new content.

                                So now let's say a scenario where a DVD I released in 2006 gets ripped & uploaded to one of the tubes in the APAP program, it will be flagged as a match & completely removed immediately before any views or if I'm participating in the monetization, it will be flagged & I would have set some rule to replace it with a promo clip & maybe an overlay ad.

                                I'm assuming you either have copies of the DVD's you release or have the WMV files on hand. That's all you need to have a finger print created of your content. It's just a file that maps the visual and audio components of your video that is not stored in the video or DVD file at all.

                                You mentioned RemoveYourContent & their services and the answer to that is you would probably still want to use them for other sites who are not participating in the APAP system if you are having issues with infringement elsewhere.

                                ~Alli
                                Allison
                                President
                                TopBucks.com| PinkVisual.com|
                                [email protected]
                                Follow Me on Twitter:
                                http://www.twitter.com/PV_Alli

                                ICQ: 120353154

                                Check out PVLocker.com

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