Calls for longer school years face budget reality

[Barefootsies]

Buckle your Seatbelt kiddies...

NEW YORK ? President Barack Obama's call for a longer school day and year for America's kids echoes a similar call he made a year ago to little effect, illustrating just how deeply entrenched the traditional school calendar is and how little power the federal government has to change it.

Education reformers have long called for U.S. kids to log more time in the classroom so they can catch up with their peers elsewhere in the world, but resistance from leisure-loving teenagers isn't the only reason there is no mass movement to keep schoolchildren in their seats.

Such a change could cost cash-strapped state governments and local school districts billions of dollars, strip teachers of a time-honored perk of their profession, and irk officials in states that already bridle at federal intrusion into their traditional control over education.

"If you extend the school year for, say, five days, you're paying for another week of salaries, another week of utilities and another week of fuel for, in South Carolina, 5,700 school buses," said Jim Foster, a spokesman for the South Carolina Department of Education.

Obama told NBC's Matt Lauer on the "Today" show Monday that the U.S. school year is too short.

"The idea of a longer school year, I think, makes sense," he said. He did not specify how long that school year should be, but said U.S. students attend classes, on average, about a month less than children in most other advanced countries.

U.S. schools through high school offer an average of 180 instruction days per year, according to the Education Commission of the States. That compares to an average of 197 days for lower grades and 196 days for upper grades in countries with the best student achievement levels, including Japan, South Korea, Germany and New Zealand.

Many education experts say American kids should spend more time in school.

"There's a growing awareness that American kids are being shortchanged academically by the short school day and the short school year," said Pedro Noguera, a professor of education at New York University.

Today's American kids have a long summer vacation because previous generations needed the summer off to work on family farms.

Now researchers say the tradition causes a "summer learning loss" as kids put aside the books for the summer. The problem hits low-income students especially hard. A Johns Hopkins University study found that disadvantaged kids fall back during the summer break, while better-off kids hold steady or continue to learn.

Charter schools that aim to bring low-income students up to grade level, such as the KIPP academies and the Harlem Children's Zone in New York City, generally offer a longer school year and a longer school day.

In most cases the charter schools have leeway to set their own schedules, in part because their teachers are not covered by union contracts.

At traditional public schools where teachers and other employees are usually represented by unions, lengthening the school day or the school year would be subject to collective bargaining, and more hours would cost more money.

"It has to be negotiated, and it takes money," said Janet Bass, a spokeswoman for the American Federation of Teachers. "Right now teachers and all other school staff are compensated based on the number of hours they work."

Some states embrace the idea. In Massachusetts, the state issues grants to districts with plans to constructively lengthen instructional class time, said Kathy Christie, chief of staff at the Education Commission of the States. Obama's Education Department already is using competitions among states for curriculum grant money through its "Race to the Top" initiative.

"The federal carrots of additional money would help more states do it or schools do it in states where they don't have a state grant process," Christie said.

But the federal budget is hard-up, too. And while many educators and parents believe students would benefit from more quality learning time, the idea is not universally popular.

Texas already forbids school from starting before the fourth Monday of August, a provision designed to save money on utility bills and increase business for tourist destinations and other summer attractions.

"Ultimately the states, not the federal government, should have the final word on this and other public school decisions," said Lucy Nashed, a spokeswoman for Gov. Rick Perry.

In Kansas, sporadic efforts by local districts to extend the school year at even a few schools have been met by parental resistance, said state education commissioner Diane DeBacker.

"The community was just not ready for kids to be in school all summer long," DeBacker said. "Kids wanted to go swimming. Their families wanted to go on vacation."

In some states, the school year already starts well before Labor Day and in others nearly stretches to the Fourth of July.

Parents are similarly divided.

Parent Irene Facciolo in Montpelier, Vt., said kids need the summer break and learn while they're away from school.

"I really feel like they need the time to regenerate," she said.

But Laura Spencer of Orlando, Fla., says she would rather have her 10-year-old daughter learning than hanging out.

"Summer is a lost opportunity," said Spencer, who believes having kids out of school for three to four months makes an already flawed education system worse.

Full Article

[Vendzilla]

another failed idea from Barry inc.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

another failed idea from Barry inc.

I wouldn't call it failed... Wanting to catch our Children up to the rest of the world so we can compete in 20 years damn sure isn't failed. The school system we have, has failed though.

Making the school year long right now isn't going to help when they need to revamp the entire education system, but it does need to be extended at some point.

We need a bailout for our Education system like no other or in 20 years we will be 3rd world stupid compared to the other leading nations.

The only thing half saving our ass is Charter Schools, which are the #1 schools in the Nation - paid for out people on top of school tax. A prime example of how well schools can operate and educate, and a great example of why the system needs to be completely changed.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I wouldn't call it failed... Wanting to catch our Children up to the rest of the world so we can compete in 20 years damn sure isn't failed. The school system we have, has failed though.

Making the school year long right now isn't going to help when they need to revamp the entire education system, but it does need to be extended at some point.

We need a bailout for our Education system like no other or in 20 years we will be 3rd world stupid compared to the other leading nations.

The only thing half saving our ass is Charter Schools, which are the #1 schools in the Nation - paid for out people on top of school tax. A prime example of how well schools can operate and educate, and a great example of why the system needs to be completely changed.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Longer school days and longer school years will not catch up our children if the teachers still suck.

Throwing money at the problem will not help. But then again, Obama needs to pay off/bail out the failed teachers unions some how.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

The only thing half saving our ass is Charter Schools, which are the #1 schools in the Nation - paid for out people on top of school tax. A prime example of how well schools can operate and educate, and a great example of why the system needs to be completely changed.

[BVF]

And what about parents who have child custody agreements to where the kid is with one parent during the school year and the other during summer?....It's like that with me...And there is NO WAY I'm giving up my summer.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by BVF

And what about parents who have child custody agreements to where the kid is with one parent during the school year and the other during summer?....It's like that with me...And there is NO WAY I'm giving up my summer.

Parents do not matter anymore. The government is here to raise your children. After all they know better than you do.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I wouldn't call it failed... Wanting to catch our Children up to the rest of the world so we can compete in 20 years damn sure isn't failed. The school system we have, has failed though.

Making the school year long right now isn't going to help when they need to revamp the entire education system, but it does need to be extended at some point.

We need a bailout for our Education system like no other or in 20 years we will be 3rd world stupid compared to the other leading nations.

The only thing half saving our ass is Charter Schools, which are the #1 schools in the Nation - paid for out people on top of school tax. A prime example of how well schools can operate and educate, and a great example of why the system needs to be completely changed.

I like charter schools, I think they make sense and are good all around. They were making some major education reforms in DC... yeh, the mayor is getting booted... teachers unions were not so happy about those reforms.

In 20 years we'll be having this same discussion saying we had the opportunity to fix things but never did. Unfortunate.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by BVF

And what about parents who have child custody agreements to where the kid is with one parent during the school year and the other during summer?....It's like that with me...And there is NO WAY I'm giving up my summer.

Many cities have year-round school. They have divorced parents, too.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by Sly

Many cities have year-round school. They have divorced parents, too.

Yeah true....But we weren't married or divorced in one of those cities...So unless somebody is willing to pay for my lawyer fees to get the agreement amended, then fuck that.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Parents do not matter anymore. The government is here to raise your children. After all they know better than you do.

That's not a very strong argument when our nation is one of the worst in the world for education, for sure over Countries Gov's that manage education with a much shorter leash than ours, and dominate us to an extreme as well.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Sly

I like charter schools, I think they make sense and are good all around. They were making some major education reforms in DC... yeh, the mayor is getting booted... teachers unions were not so happy about those reforms.

In 20 years we'll be having this same discussion saying we had the opportunity to fix things but never did. Unfortunate.

Yeah the teacher unions are out of control... you can have a totally crap teacher, just a stain - and not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

If in 20 years we're still talking about this, then we will be 20+ years further behind than we already are. Unless something drastic changes, we will continually fall behind.

[cykoe6]

Kids nowadays are so useless and fucked up that there is no point in educating them. Just string some barbed wire around the schoolyard and call it a penitentiary. Skip all of the intermediate steps.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I wouldn't call it failed... Wanting to catch our Children up to the rest of the world so we can compete in 20 years damn sure isn't failed. The school system we have, has failed though.

Making the school year long right now isn't going to help when they need to revamp the entire education system, but it does need to be extended at some point.

We need a bailout for our Education system like no other or in 20 years we will be 3rd world stupid compared to the other leading nations.

The only thing half saving our ass is Charter Schools, which are the #1 schools in the Nation - paid for out people on top of school tax. A prime example of how well schools can operate and educate, and a great example of why the system needs to be completely changed.

School teachers unions have fucked us, lack of common sense has fucked us. When a student can sue the schools because she has a nose ring in her nose because they belong to a church of body modifications, thats when you have to ask why?
When we were in school, if you didn't do your work or did wrong, there was consequence, now there is nothing of the sort. I watched as my daughter went to a school that didn't even offer Physical Education, yet had a teacher day once a fucking month. Had Picture day 3 times a year to raise money for what?
Our school are paying out to illegal aliens to feed them 2 meals a day that shouldn't be in our schools and the best this ASSHOLE WE CALL OUR PRESIDENT CAN DO IS OFFER THE ANSWER THAT WE NEED A LONGER SCHOOL YEAR?
I have talked to frustrated Teachers that have quit because of no discipline in the class room, Teachers worried because of the freedom students have, they can't even have there lockers checked for GUNS as a right to privacy.

Please mister fucked up president Barry, come up with a better plan than just longer fucking school years you pompous asshole!
Our schools have serious problems, get off the shitter and offer some real solutions

[Va2k]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Kids nowadays are so useless and fucked up that there is no point in educating them. Just string some barbed wire around the schoolyard and call it a penitentiary. Skip all of the intermediate steps.

You're an idiot! You must not have kids. I for one have two great kids and I do NOT need the gov telling me how to raise them or anything else! We have year long schools around here and they are worse then the schools that are traditional! I wouldn't want my kids to go year round, everyone even kids need a break from life!

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Please mister fucked up president Barry, come up with a better plan than just longer fucking school years you pompous asshole!
Our schools have serious problems, get off the shitter and offer some real solutions

i agree.. omg where is demon to see how biased i am...

anyway, the problem is not the length of the school year, its the lack of funding, the focus on testing as opposed to learning, and the overall lack of support for or educational system..

parents want the best education, but they never want to pay for it..

you dont hear parents with kids in private schools complaining about their kids education do you?

do you know why... private schools focus on learning, not testing.. and guess what.. test scores are much higher than public schools that focus on standardized testing...

maybe we should privatize education like we are doing with our prisons....







.

[BlackCrayon]

year round school? good fucking god. thats like killing what it is to be a kid...

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i agree.. omg where is demon to see how biased i am...

anyway, the problem is not the length of the school year, its the lack of funding, the focus on testing as opposed to learning, and the overall lack of support for or educational system..

parents want the best education, but they never want to pay for it..

you dont hear parents with kids in private schools complaining about their kids education do you?

do you know why... private schools focus on learning, not testing.. and guess what.. test scores are much higher than public schools that focus on standardized testing...

maybe we should privatize education like we are doing with our prisons....
.

Our education system use to be the best in the world
Time to get back to basics
Having charter schools and private schools in not the answer either.
Growing up, I never even heard of home schooled
The department of education needs to go BYE BYE
States need to take back control of the schools and get rid of anchor babies and illegal aliens getting 2 meals a day, that shouldn't be the responsibility of our schools to feed those that are here illegally.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

parents want the best education, but they never want to pay for it..

Exactamundo.

Like everything else in this country. People want health care, but not pay for it. People want the same quality of education public, private, charter, but do not want to pay for it. People want free college education and availability, but do not want to pay for it.

Other countries have these advantages because of their VAT or other taxes. They pay much more than the U.S. back into the system. So they get added level of services. Only in America do you think that you can endlessly cut taxes, and still provide a 5 star social/health/education system.

When are people going to realize they are paying taxes for their police state to enforce taxes, to pay for the police state. Other than corporate masters self interests, and those of politicians looking to stay in power, the needs and wants of the rest of the 'citizens' are an annoyance.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

School teachers unions have fucked us, lack of common sense has fucked us. When a student can sue the schools because she has a nose ring in her nose because they belong to a church of body modifications, thats when you have to ask why?
When we were in school, if you didn't do your work or did wrong, there was consequence, now there is nothing of the sort. I watched as my daughter went to a school that didn't even offer Physical Education, yet had a teacher day once a fucking month. Had Picture day 3 times a year to raise money for what?
Our school are paying out to illegal aliens to feed them 2 meals a day that shouldn't be in our schools and the best this ASSHOLE WE CALL OUR PRESIDENT CAN DO IS OFFER THE ANSWER THAT WE NEED A LONGER SCHOOL YEAR?
I have talked to frustrated Teachers that have quit because of no discipline in the class room, Teachers worried because of the freedom students have, they can't even have there lockers checked for GUNS as a right to privacy.

Please mister fucked up president Barry, come up with a better plan than just longer fucking school years you pompous asshole!
Our schools have serious problems, get off the shitter and offer some real solutions

That's a whole lot of crazy...

I've already stated that the unions are out of control and the entire system needs to be changed.

But coming out and attacking one of the strongest and largest unions would be political man slaughter for everyone involved. I agree they're jacked up as can be, but you can only take it one step at a time.

Schools shouldn't be telling kids how to dress, they're at the school to teach not judge. They shouldn't be making schools like a prison either, they shouldn't be teaching them in the structure they're teaching. Schools need to focus less on Sports and more on academics. Come to think of it, they need to do a lot.

And right now the States are the ones that control that and YOU (the parent) have the ability to make it change from the School level up to the State. Schools/States have the ability to limit who they feed/how that money is spent & discipline structures, the fed isn't forcing this. If you want these changes, you have to go out and get the people together that agree with you and push for them.

What you're asking for is Obama/The Gov to over take the entire education system, kick the States in the balls, scrap it and come up with something new. I'm 1000000000000000% sure you do not want that.


The correction I see is competition, some regulation would be nice (and happens) but the States hold the power. Free charters & private, paid, grants and so on competition with the Public school systems, forcing the States & Fed to compete by modifying how the Public Schools currently run.

The change has to come from within, not from above.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

That's not a very strong argument when our nation is one of the worst in the world for education, for sure over Countries Gov's that manage education with a much shorter leash than ours, and dominate us to an extreme as well.

And most of those governments are the size of Cali. You are not thinking outside the box. Half the problem is you do not see each state as a State.

[kane]

There are so many things wrong with the current school system that it makes me sick.

The average cost of private school in the US is about $6500 per year per student.
The average cost of public school in the US is about $13,000 per year per student.

So it costs twice as much to send a kid to public school as private, yet the public schools are clearly inferior.

Here is another little tid bit of joy. Most 8th grades no longer "graduate" students. What this means is that there is no actual qualifications that a student needs to meet in order to graduate 8th grade. My nephew literally failed every class but PE his 8th grade year and he was still sent on. They now call it a "promotion of excellence". The school told my brother that they would not hold my nephew back unless they were instructed to do so by the parents. The school gets paid based on how many kids they move to the next level so they make sure that they move them all no matter what.

One more example. The high school I went to had about 700 students in it. That same high school now has about 850 students. When I went there we had 1 principle and 1 vice principle and 1 counselor per grade (total of 4). That same school now has 3 vice principles. A principle. A dean of students an assistant dean of students there are at least 12 different counselors as well as at least two assistants to the vice principles. So the number of students increased by 15% but they hired 14 more people who all make pretty good money. It is a complete waste of money. They have all these extra, unnecessary people working there, yet they say they can't afford janitor service so they make the kids take out the garbage and sweep the classroom floors. It is no wonder why a pubic school costs so much, a lot of the money is just wasted.

[IllTestYourGirls]

The voucher program in DC was a huge success, but Obama did not want black kids going to school with white kids so he and his cronies in congress eliminated the program and told the darkies go to back to the slums where they belong. I wish we would stop having racist presidents.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

And most of those governments are the size of Cali. You are not thinking outside the box. Half the problem is you do not see each state as a State.

And many don't... and that really makes no difference, being that the States control this it means each is about equal to the other Countries then.

I clearly understand each State controls the Schools right now... that's why each States ranges in education levels, grad levels, budget abilities, what they learn, etc, etc, etc...

The States (ie: Parents, people, etc) have the ability to correct this. If they don't, the Fed will.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

That's a whole lot of crazy...

I've already stated that the unions are out of control and the entire system needs to be changed.

But coming out and attacking one of the strongest and largest unions would be political man slaughter for everyone involved. I agree they're jacked up as can be, but you can only take it one step at a time.

Schools shouldn't be telling kids how to dress, they're at the school to teach not judge. They shouldn't be making schools like a prison either, they shouldn't be teaching them in the structure they're teaching. Schools need to focus less on Sports and more on academics. Come to think of it, they need to do a lot.

And right now the States are the ones that control that and YOU (the parent) have the ability to make it change from the School level up to the State. Schools/States have the ability to limit who they feed/how that money is spent & discipline structures, the fed isn't forcing this. If you want these changes, you have to go out and get the people together that agree with you and push for them.

What you're asking for is Obama/The Gov to over take the entire education system, kick the States in the balls, scrap it and come up with something new. I'm 1000000000000000% sure you do not want that.


The correction I see is competition, some regulation would be nice (and happens) but the States hold the power. Free charters & private, paid, grants and so on competition with the Public school systems, forcing the States & Fed to compete by modifying how the Public Schools currently run.

The change has to come from within, not from above.

I want the department of ed to go bye bye, in other words, get the fucking federal gov to get out of education and let the states run it.
Nothing wrong with dress standards and comparing it to the prisons is kinda funny, I got an email about how prisons are better that retirement homes and that prisoners should switch with our elderly for they get a better shake than they do

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

But coming out and attacking one of the strongest and largest unions would be political man slaughter for everyone involved.
.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to put our children above our unions, too bad we don't have a leader with BALLS

[mikesinner]

I went to a school for three periods a day. They bused us there from our home schools. They offered lots of classes we didn't have at our regular school and it was ranked in the top 200 in the nation.

The problem is we need to be focusing more on the students that are falling behind so we don't have a growing lower class.

[MetaMan]

HAHAH man what the fuck happened to you americans man? all you guys do is get fat and argue politics that never pass or do any real changes.

[AJHall]

Unfortunately the educators (teachers and administrators) are all at the mercy of the political system. The education system has its own politics. The majority of educators are disgusted by how things are. They have no choice but to do the best they can with what they have which in a lot of cases is shit teachers they can't fire due to the union, reduced staff due to budget cuts and a whole list of other obstacles.

IMO parents are the only group with enough power to affect the bottom line. If enough parents band together and are willing to completely reject the system it will affect funding and states will be forced to listen and things might change.

[PornMD]

There's kind of a problem brewing that may be really hard to overcome. The computer is becoming more and more not just a part of every day life, but as big if not bigger a part of everyday life as TV has been for many of us growing up. Social interaction in person is going down more and more, mostly by preference vs. necessity. However school for the most part hasn't changed...you go to school for 6+ hours a day of in-person social interaction and learning. 80-90% of what is being taught in school will to most kids be little more than Jeopardy-fodder in their life, and now all of a sudden, even though in-person social interaction IS obviously still important as is the discipline, with it being done less and less in everyday life, THAT aspect of school seems on the surface that much less important to a kid.

Add to that constant bombardment of "OMG bad shit just happened" news, unnecessary fluff via advertising/TV/Computer/Phone, lack of parenting, etc. and the effect that has on attention spans and psyches and you find yourself having to convince kids not just every year, not just every month, not just every day but even multiple times a day why they should give a shit and pay attention in school. After all, all that Jeopardy fluff can be looked up in Wikipedia, definitions of words in Dictionary.com, math in a calculator, spelling via spellcheck (which of course leads to shit like "your loosing the game" running rampant), etc. so how are you going to constantly convince them that WHAT they are learning is important? Even look at your own lives...obviously it's important to learn the discipline and social interactivity from school, but besides those 2 things, what that you have learned in school are you using on a regular basis besides basic spelling/vocab and basic math?

Everyone's capable of learning...even the people that have a really hard time of it are capable of it. It's ALWAYS been a problem of motivation. Sure some teachers suck at the actual teaching part, but what most teachers actually suck at is the motivation part, and when they make shit for pay and get little respect otherwise, sometimes it even comes down to THEIR motivation to teach and instill the motivation in their students to learn. Parents fail too since they figure public school is little more than free daycare and their lives are too busy to worry about if their kid is getting what they should be out of their education.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I want the department of ed to go bye bye, in other words, get the fucking federal gov to get out of education and let the states run it.
Nothing wrong with dress standards and comparing it to the prisons is kinda funny, I got an email about how prisons are better that retirement homes and that prisoners should switch with our elderly for they get a better shake than they do

The DoE has very little say in 'how' your State/Cities choose to run the Education programs. They control the what, make sure material is up to standard which it was greatly lacking & universal, which it damn sure wasn't. Texas for example teaches Texas History & Requires it - the State controls it.

Not every school district/city is defunct, many have changed and greatly improved & others haven't. That's because the States/People run it, right now.

At that, without the Fed most Public schools would be history/bankrupt and Charter/Private schools would be even larger. The education system isn't failing because the Gov is involved in it, it's failing because Teachers have more power than the Fed & Parents combined.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Yeah, you wouldn't want to put our children above our unions, too bad we don't have a leader with BALLS

You're assuming that's the right answer and you're assuming he could ever get that past. It's about choosing a fight you can win... they're that powerful and he wouldn't win. With that, not every state/city or school is in trouble - so the fight would be on like no other, from "Every" State, most Cities and shit tons of teachers.

This is another change that HAS to happen at the Local/State levels.. from Parents up. The Fed steps in, it will be nasty.

Of course you would want him to do it, it would ensure he never gets elected again along with everyone else that supported it. Simply, the other side would swing against it (then not let it happen) and the victory would be ensured. So either way, it isn't happening.

[xxweekxx]

honestly the school system here sucks.. i went to a foreign school for 8th-10th grade.. by the time i got back to the usa, i was like u gotta be kidding me...

i basically did calc 1,2 in 8th grade.. did a lot of advanced physics too... the school system in america just felt sooo much easier..

i eased through college with a 3.8+ GPA.. is it a wonder why majority of foreigners who go to high school in their country, then come here for college, end up graduating with honors?? go check the honor list in ur school, half of them are japs, chinese, indians, etc..

I remember freshman year of college, a math class, the teacher said something like
10+ 5X + 10Y = 40Y + 10 or some random shit like that.. whats X?

90% of the class was like wooahh, go back, we cant solve it, etc.

im like you dumb fucks.. 30Y =5X

X = 6Y

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by kane

There are so many things wrong with the current school system that it makes me sick.

The average cost of private school in the US is about $6500 per year per student.
The average cost of public school in the US is about $13,000 per year per student.

So it costs twice as much to send a kid to public school as private, yet the public schools are clearly inferior.

Here is another little tid bit of joy. Most 8th grades no longer "graduate" students. What this means is that there is no actual qualifications that a student needs to meet in order to graduate 8th grade. My nephew literally failed every class but PE his 8th grade year and he was still sent on. They now call it a "promotion of excellence". The school told my brother that they would not hold my nephew back unless they were instructed to do so by the parents. The school gets paid based on how many kids they move to the next level so they make sure that they move them all no matter what.

One more example. The high school I went to had about 700 students in it. That same high school now has about 850 students. When I went there we had 1 principle and 1 vice principle and 1 counselor per grade (total of 4). That same school now has 3 vice principles. A principle. A dean of students an assistant dean of students there are at least 12 different counselors as well as at least two assistants to the vice principles. So the number of students increased by 15% but they hired 14 more people who all make pretty good money. It is a complete waste of money. They have all these extra, unnecessary people working there, yet they say they can't afford janitor service so they make the kids take out the garbage and sweep the classroom floors. It is no wonder why a pubic school costs so much, a lot of the money is just wasted.

All good points.

Now a days, it is like raising a nation of elitist, corporate slaves, worker bee, conformist sissies.

[Gerco]

Education in the US is poor at best.