Jon

SEOUL, South Korea (Jan. 10) - North Korea withdrew from a global treaty that bars it from making nuclear weapons Friday, but said it was willing to talk to Washington to end an escalating dispute over its nuclear ambitions.

It also warned the United States not to take military action against it, saying a ''new Korean War will finally lead to the Third World War'' and the North could hold its own in a ''fire-to-fire standoff.''

The communist country said it had quit the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty because of alleged U.S. aggression, but said it had no intention of producing nuclear weapons and would use its nuclear program only for peaceful purposes ''at this stage.''

The withdrawal was partly symbolic. North Korea was already violating the treaty by secretly pursuing weapons development and flouting U.N. safeguards. Washington believes it already has one or two nuclear bombs.

''This is not at all unexpected,'' said John Bolton, U.S. undersecretary of state for arms control, who was visiting Thailand. ''The North Koreans were not adhering to the treaty when they were still a party to it.''

The declaration heightened tension as the United States and its allies seek a diplomatic solution, although Pyongyang's action could mean that it is trying to pressure the United States into making concessions. North Korea wants Washington to sign a nonaggression treaty and give it economic aid.

South Korean President Kim Dae-jung described the nuclear issue as a matter of ''life and death,'' and said dialogue was the only way to solve it.

His National Security Council held an emergency meeting. Afterward, the Foreign Ministry said the North's withdrawal was a ''serious threat to peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula'' and urged it to retract its decision.

The nuclear tension could be discussed at Cabinet-level talks between the two Koreas that are scheduled for Jan. 21-24 in Seoul. However, North Korea says the issue is strictly a matter between it and the United States.

The North's official news agency, KCNA, also carried a newspaper article on Friday warning against ''the reckless military and political moves of the U.S. warmongers.''

''A new Korean War will finally lead to the Third World War,'' it said. ''Let us see who will win and who will be defeated in the fire-to-fire standoff.''

Australia, Japan, the Philippines and Russia were among countries that expressed deep concern. There was no immediate comment from China or the United States.

The North Korean announcement came as Bill Richardson, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and current New Mexico governor, met Thursday in his state with two North Korean envoys in what observers hoped could augur an easing of tension.

Richardson, who was acting as an intermediary, planned to meet the envoys again Friday. His role emerged after U.S. officials said they were willing to talk to North Korea, but demanded that it ''promptly and verifiably'' dismantle its nuclear weapons programs.

North Korea blamed what it said was U.S. aggression for its withdrawal from the 1968 treaty, and denounced the U.N. nuclear watchdog as ''a tool for executing the U.S. hostile policy'' toward North Korea.

''We can no longer remain bound to the NPT, allowing the country's security and the dignity of our nation to be infringed upon,'' the government said in a statement from the official news agency.

''Though we pull out of the NPT, we have no intention of producing nuclear weapons and our nuclear activities at this stage will be confined only to peaceful purposes such as the production of electricity,'' the news agency said.

However, analysts say a nuclear reactor in the North Korean town of Yongbyon - the focus of the latest dispute - provides a negligible amount of power. The facility was the centerpiece of a weapons program until it was frozen in a 1994 energy deal with the United States.

U.S. officials said that North Korean negotiators acknowledged in October that they had a second, clandestine nuclear program.

In 1993, North Korea also announced that it was withdrawing from the treaty, but suspended the decision three months later and entered talks with the United States. It again left open the possibility of a negotiated solution.

''If the U.S. drops its hostile policy to stifle the DPRK and stops its nuclear threat to it, the DPRK may prove through a separate verification between the DPRK and the U.S. that it does not make any nuclear weapons,'' the North Korean government statement said.

DPRK stands for Democratic People's Republic of Korea, the communist state's official name.

However, the North's defiant posture raises the possibility that the International Atomic Energy Agency will send the matter to the U.N. Security Council, which could choose to impose economic sanctions. Such a step could lead to more defiance from the isolated North.

The treaty says a nation that withdraws from the pact must give notification three months in advance. North Korea, however, said it was withdrawing immediately.

The crisis worsened last month when Pyongyang expelled U.N. inspectors at the Yongbyon site and said it was reactivating the facilities. Experts say North Korea could make several more bombs within six months if it extracts weapons-grade plutonium from spent fuel rods.

North Korea joined the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty in 1985. In 1994, North Korea agreed to freeze its nuclear facilities at Yongbyon under an energy deal with the United States. Those facilities are the focus of the new crisis.

The 1968 treaty is considered a cornerstone in the effort to stop the spread of nuclear weapons.

Only four other countries - Cuba, India, Israel and Pakistan - are not signatories, though Cuba is a member of a treaty establishing a nuclear-free zone in Latin America.


>>
Pretty scary shit in a sense that if there is a draft to combat this asshole, that i fall into the age group. Canada is starting to look nicer and nicer with each korean/iraqi showdown threat..
On more of a serious note, how will this effect the world, economy, and most of all the porn business?

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NoCarrier

Third World War? LOL. With what?

You have to realise that this psycho has been doing the same childish approch over and over again. His country is in deep economic shit and has been using threats to get help and attention from the United States. The problem is, the current US administration can't stand whining babies, especially under a blackmail approach, and the psycho is not satisfied because we didn't give him his candies yet.

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Jakke PNG

I personally like the fact that US is the only country that doesn't follow any regulations, won't 'need' weapons inspections and so forth. Quit whining.. so if they build nukes? So do you.

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marty

Korea would really have a world war on their hands.

Just them against the rest of the world.

China and Russia would squash them without being as diplomatic as the US.

KRL

The US would never be able to drop nukes on North Korea. God almighty if the wind blows the fallout the wrong way it would go into South Korea, China, or Japan. You'd have the worst political nightmare in history then.

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Libertine

You really believe China and Russia would help out the US in case of war? Dream on...

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Jon

thats a really scary point, true too. but also remember north korea does in fact have nukes that are able to hit Alaska and parts of Hawaii.. so if they hit us, then the military's hard on to use nukes will definitely be acted upon. this is just scary because a leader of a country we don't like used the words "standoff", "world war III", and "last one standing", so it is something to worry about.

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Vendot

> You really believe China and Russia would help out the US
> in case of war? Dream on...

I was about to say this.

Whoever suggests that Russia or China would support the US in a world war must be doing one of the following:

(a) Cocaine
(b) LSD
(c) Heroine
(d) There are possible alternatives that im unaware of that can fuck you up that badly.

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Pleasurepays

i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you either flunked geography or have never looked at an atlas in your life and educate you on world geography.

*North Korea borders Russia and China.

they would be helping themselves, not the US and they have been making their position pretty clear on this issue.

directfiesta

"Invade Iraq, that is the solution " George W Bush

Vendot

> they would be helping themselves, not the US and they
> have been making their position pretty clear on this issue.

All that talk is for public consumption dude and to keep the peace. They dont want war but if it really came down to World War III there is no way in hell China or Russia would be US allies.

No fucking way. Period.

Bringing China into the WTO was a means by which to appease them but its coming from an angle they predicted, and they would never do it.

Some of you guys are dreaming a very wet dream.

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Pleasurepays

its reasonable that Russia and China would allow their neighbor to start World War III in their back yard... and on top of that further empower the North Korean Government and "Our Glorious Leader" as they refer to their president, who is a whacked out, reclusive and psycho dictator currently blackmailing them with nuclear weapons?

do you think that China is going to throw their entire economy into a massive tail spin by losing Most Favored Nation Trading status with the US and risk losing WTO membership and distancing themselves from Western Europe? Do you think that Russia can afford to be against anyone when they are broke, billions of dollars in debt with the World Bank, Internation Monetary Fund, Western Countries and totally dependant on the Dollar?

i dont think that WWlll will happen. "World War lll" implies that the "world" to participate. The "world" has no intention of participating in anything. In fact, right now, it is North Korea against the world in what is probably going to be the last great political move of a dying government.

i dont think that anyone should back down to nuclear threats from North Korea just because their Stalinist dictatorship is failing and they have no other leverage or influence in the world or region.

China and Russia do not need to "support the US".... but you cannot prove in any possible way that they are supporting North Korea right now. they are against North Koreas behavior because it is something that also directly effects them and puts them at risk since they are neighbors.

North Korea is finding itself very alone and isolated in the world right now. the only place they have support is on GFY. not that it is a great surprise.

kmanrox

if we are gonna kill some ragheads and koreans, we better get with it, i only have 3 years of age eligiblity to reinstate myself to the Corps without a waiver!

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FlyingIguana

so it would be the world vs korea? i don't see china helping korea with pretty much nothing to gain. this is like a black man in the 50's walking into a white bar in the south.

Vendot

> do you think that China is going to throw their entire
> economy into a massive tail spin by losing Most Favored
> Nation Trading status with the US and risk losing WTO
> membership and distancing themselves from Western
> Europe?

Dude..... do you really think they would give a fuck? In the event of a World War III it would be about survival. All economies would collapse because there could be no trade, infrastructure would be deleted and money would all be spent on recovery.

> Do you think that Russia can afford to be against anyone
> when they are broke, billions of dollars in debt with the
> World Bank, Internation Monetary Fund, Western
> Countries and totally dependant on the Dollar?

There is no fucking way you can determine the geo-political configuration of such a war in advance. Its feasible that in such circumstances they would ally with muslim nations who could solve their financial problems but again.... if it goes nuclear, no-one gives a fuck.

> In fact, right now, it is North Korea against the world in
> what is probably going to be the last great political move of
> a dying government.

I place great emphasis on the term "right now". Theres no fucking way you can determine how things will play out.

> I dont think that anyone should back down to nuclear
> threats from North Korea just because their Stalinist
> dictatorship is failing and they have no other leverage
> or influence in the world or region.

Not backing down = nuclear war. You cant invade Korea and not expect to be nuked. Its a sad fact that the nuclear option is a genie that has been loosed from the bottle and theres no going back.

> China and Russia do not need to "support the US".... but
> you cannot prove in any possible way that they are
> supporting North Korea right now.

I never said I could prove that but I can promise you, if it comes down to the World War III there is no fucking way that China or Russia would support the US. They fucking hate too much about western culture & ideology not to mention the fact that democracy by its nature threatens their own regimes. China also has a major beef with the US over Taiwan.

> North Korea is finding itself very alone and isolated in
> the world right now. the only place they have support is
> on GFY. not that it is a great surprise.

Who's fucking supporting them? Im just a realist.

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FlyingIguana

i don't see how korea could start ww3. there's nothing to gain by siding with korea. it would be like vietnam unless korea tries to nuke japan.

Pleasurepays

again, you are using the term "World War lll"

there cannot be a World War lll because it is one weak and small country making threats.

you refer to "Nuclear War"

What are you smoking? exactly what the fuck are you talking about????

Nuclear war with what? with who? Did they learn how to make Nuclear bombs from rice and dirt? They are thought to have 2 nuclear weapons. they have wwll missile technology to launch them.

Thats what will destroy the infrastructure of the world? dude... what grade are you in?

you say "you cant invade Korea... blah blah blah"

Please show me where anyone anywhere on the planet suggested that anyone should invade North Korea? No one is suggesting that... except GFY conspiracy theorists.

Pleasurepays

unless its escaped everyones attention... they withdrew today from a Non Proliferation Treaty of which they never honored anyway.

they broke a 1994 agreement to stop their nuclear programs and their development of nuclear weapons in exchange for oil and other aid. simultaneously, they simply started up another nuclear weapons program in another region of the country and continued as if the agreement never existed.

A rogue, autocratic and failing Stalinist government is pushing hard to develop nuclear weapons and making some pretty scary threats as they have for the last 10 years.

everytime their back is against the wall and they need money, food, oil, agricultural supplies and medicine - they simply rattle the sabre to scare people into submission and appeasement.

today, they just threated the WORLD with "nuclear war" if there are any trade sanctions against them for their own violations of what they agreed to. thats pretty fucking serious. not something that anyone should take lightly. its certainly not a behavior that you reward with more concessions.

Russia and Japan just publically called on North Korea to reverse their decision.

Vendot

> there cannot be a World War lll because it is one weak
> and small country making threats.

Listen man....

There is no way one country can get nuked and at the same time, no escalation happens. Not only does one use (which would be the first use since WWII) legitimise the practice of their use but it would also lead to a series of attacks and counter attacks because the situation is so unstable.

There is no way to be certain but it is reasonable to suppose that it would become a world war because of this. We have terrorists groups who would take advantage of the situation. We have the promise war against Iraq, we have the troubles in the middle east and the rise of anti-semitism, problems in Africa, we have India's conflict with Pakistan. We have many countries discontented with democracy, western and US policy such as Libya and Iran for example.

We have a number of factors that would conceivably lead that conflict further. You have to be able to look into it a bit deeper and at the same time utilise those grey cells.

Or in this case I think when God was stuffing our heads he just pushed your head along the conveyer belt because he knew you wernt gonna fucking use it!

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Pleasurepays

and you are basing this on what exactly? all of the previous nuclear wars that have happened?

you are making all these "yeah but everyone else will then take advantage of the situation because they hate the US and/or democracy" arguements. wouldnt that be the exact same arguements that were heard right before the Taliban was destroyed?

Matt 26z

Anyone who actually believes anything will even come of this is on crack. North Korea is just calling everyone out, and they can't even back their words up if they wanted to.

The ultimate worse that could happen is they nuke someone close with the 2 not-so-long-range nukes they've got. Then what? Then we (and others) bomb their country straight to hell, and they become isolated from the world for the next 100 years.

That certainly doesn't sound like a good plan on their part. They have NOTHING to gain by nuking someone, but everything to gain over time by not.

theking

You stated in a post above that you are a realist, but the fact is you do not have a realistic grasp of world politics, and world economics. There will not be a military war in Korea, unless the North Koreans initiate it, and any military conflict in Korea certainly would not lead to a World War. If there were to be a war in North Korea, Russia and China certainly will not materially support N Korea, for multiple reasons, many of which have already been stated in this thread.

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Libertine

Actually, if there is a war in N-Korea, it would be because the US are invading. In such a case chances are fairly high that China will step in to help N-Korea, whether officially or not. Not so much to win the war, but to scare off the US.
Now, chances of the US invading seem slim to non-existent to me, but if it does happen, we're probably all screwed.

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pr0

North Korea could be turned into a virtual parking lot in one year with conventional weapons, 1 hour with nuclear weapons at our disposal.

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Libertine

And your point is?

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Vendot

> There will not be a military war in Korea, unless the
> North Koreans initiate it, and any military conflict in
> Korea certainly would not lead to a World War.

No, perhaps you should read a contribution before attempting to challenge it. I never said there would be a military war in Korea.

What I did say was that if World War III happened, China and Russia would not be US allies. Its very unlikely that you could invade Korea and not have a world war on your hands because it would escalate.

> If there were to be a war in North Korea, Russia and
> China certainly will not materially support N Korea, for
> multiple reasons, many of which have already been stated
> in this thread.

It may well be possible that Russia or China would not support North Korea but as I said before, there is no fucking way they would be US allies.

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dazzling

If the U.S. attacks North Korea it has more to do with South Korea.
South Korea wants the U.S. kicked out, the South Korean people want them out, and South Korean business want them out.
Tourism trade is already expanding between South and North....i was there six months ago in the North and the place was choc a block full of South Korean tourists and everybody was getting along fine.
The big south Korean manufactures are starting to open factories in the North coz they get cheap labour, highly educated, no unions and a longer working day.
China is now the biggerst trading partner of both Koreas and the South will invest over one billion there this year.
The South are expected to invest over 250 million in the North this year as well.
The only good thing the Americans are good for is the hundreds of child prostitution establishements surrounding their base there.
strange how nobody in the South is worried about the North, yet everyone in the South wants the Americans out and sees America as the problem.
I think the people in America just need to go overseas and see the truth for themselves instead of this endless Doctrine thats brainwashed them.

PornoDoggy

pr0

my point is, north korea is talking out of their ass...they pose no threat to us, other than the 30,000 soldiers standing on the line (soldiers that should be taken out of south korea).

let those south koreans get over-run by north korea in the next decade...see if any of them are happy when their suv's get taken away for the good of the communist state

kenny

America has been in South Korea since a little thing called the korean war. They saved south koreas ass, they owe the United States.

theking

Perhaps it is "you should read a contribution before attempting to challenge it." I did not state that you "said there would be a military war in Korea."

There is not any scenario that could cause a military conflict in Korea to become a World War. There will not be a military conflict in Korea unless N Korea initiates it, but even if the US were to intitiate a military conflict there still would not be a World War. In addition the use of Nukes by either side are more improbable than probable. Even if a limited Nuclear exchange took place it would not lead to a World War.

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kenny

How can the USA be invading South Korea? There wouldnt be a South Korea if it wasnt for the USA.

Sassyass

They can't even feed themselves. They rely on the world to keep them going. All this is, is more heat to try to pull us off Iraq. Don't think for a second that our government doesn't know where their Weapons of mass destruction are and can't destroy them before they launch.
It's all much more complicated than any of us know.
Remeber, the news only prints what will make them sell more papers.

UncleJimmy

This is a fucking ugly situation

I spent 3 years in S. Korea back in my previous life in the US Air Force...

Those N. Korean's have been a serious threat for a long ass time and now that they have nuc's they wanna dance...

Sad thing is that their leader is just crazy enough to start some 'real' shit and that's why most of us that have spent time in S. Korea spent shitloads of time in chem-warefare exercises, etc.

If the shit goes down there's gonna be a lot of dead mofos on both sides to be certain, it'll make Afganistan, Desert Storm, etc look like a fucking picnic. :/



Hopefully the diplomats can work something out soon, and send those poor starving bastards some food and money to calm them back down. They generally 'act up' during the winter months historically as that's when their economy and people suffer the most for some reason.



Bush better start focusing more on Korea and put that Iraq shit on hold for a few months, personally I think the Korean thing is WAY more serious a threat...and I spent time in both areas back in the day.

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Carrie

Gee, that's nice.
Your family and friends are going to be in danger and you're going to... run?
Real noble of you.

"Protect my ass, US Government! Give me the most freedom of anywhere in the world! Allow me to sit here making money doing things that would have me jailed or worse in other countries!
What? You want me to help defend you? Fuck that! I'm leaving!"

Fucking pansy.

maxjohan

North Korea= 1 million army
USA = ? ? ?

kenny

USA Military > N. Korean military

ChrisH

That's what got us to where we are now. Fuck'em, we should cut off all aid to them. Let them starve to death. Maybe then they'll over through that fucking government.

I was saying last week we should pull the troops, now I think they should stay. If we pull them it should be on our terrms, not the Norths, or the Souths. Most of the South are the next generation, and don't remember what it went through. This should serve as a wake up call to them.

UncleJimmy

USA = shitload of troops

However, it's not neccessarily a numbers game ONLY with N. Korea, there is also China to consider, historically when speaking of N. Korea you must also consider their Chinese cousins that will more than likely back them....

consider THOSE numbers


but even, for some strange reason, China didn't back them, the bottom line is that N. Korea has enough troops & crap to kill a SHITLOAD of our troops in S. Korea

I was stationed at the furthest north the AF was positioned in S. Korea and we knew basically we were just a speed bump to Kunsan and Pusan



Let's just hope the diplomats go work this shit out ASAP and it doesn't have to come to a bodybag war

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Probono

And not enough rice to feed them. This is the classic trouble at home make trouble abroad scenario.

UncleJimmy

Exactly ProBono...


Historically they always do this right around winter time when their economic strife is being felt the most at home, and also right before major joint-forces military operations.

They love to cry war, but now that they have nucs it's a lil more serious.

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kenny

Nobody is going to back N. Korea reguarding this issue. Not China, not Russia, nobody. Nobody wants that country to have a nuclear program. The weapons a nuclear program can produce are to dangerous. The nuclear fussion bomb of today is 700x as powerfull as the fission bombs used on Japan in WWII. The international community is not going to fall in world war over a unstable country wanting to make weapons of mass destruction.

dazzling

In fact, the very opposite....China and Russia are in fact pushing North Korea, Iran, Libya, Sudan, Mexico, Brazil, etc to become nuclear in order to create a multi-polar world to counter American international terrorism. Hence, you only have to look at Americas terrorism in say Iraq compared to North Korea. Now if Iraq had Nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver them to the U.S. there wouldnt be any problems with Iraq.
Hence, this is Putins philosophy, to slowly leak nuclear technology across the free world at such a rate that in 20 years time we will see 90% of the worlds countries nuclear and the ability to deliver those bombs against America if needed.
This is actually the best way for world peace.
Lets face it, everyone else in the world seems to be getting along just fine...its only America and Israel that are constantly at war , bombing people, killing people, interfering in other peoples countries, etc.

Jon

we have 30 something thousand in that area total... plus reserves.

definition of reserves = the army of north korea.

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dacash

Guys do you know what is Google? Well maybe do a search on North Korea Army... They have one of the biggest Army in the world!

And hmmm I love Canada! and i'm sure i'll be safe from any thing that happens because not 1 person at the show knew where was my province...

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Matt 26z

You must not pay attention to the news then. Granted, the US is the only superpower always at war (Russia vs. Chechnya exists though). But that just goes along with our status. You mess with the US or any of our interests, and you are going down.

the indigo

I read in the newspapers that USA has something like 3500 nuclear arms, IRAK 3-4 and N. Korea 2....

Is that right?

MonkeyMan

Before this is over N. Korea Will launch, at least, one nuclear device. That is the only thing I am certain of.

Remember this comment.