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eurabia

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#1

Epassporte Fact-Check

09-23-2010, 12:39 AM

The situation is a little confusing so let's look at it without hysteria.

1) Did VISA really suspend the cards?

Yes, VISA issued a statement to that effect. Epassporte says they're suspended and SKNA confirms. Great, all 3 line up

2) Why were the cards suspended?

According to VISA, there were certain "program deficiencies", and SKNA asked VISA to suspend the cards, and VISA did so.

SKNA stands by VISA's statement and provides no further information. That means they confirm that they asked VISA to suspend the cards.

According to Epassporte they don't "fully understand" why the cards were suspended. Please note that Epassporte's statement allows for the possibility that they do understand why... just not "fully".

3) What are "program deficiencies"?

That's the big secret, and it seems neither of the 3 players are telling.

4) Is money on the cards safe?

Both Epassporte and VISA issued statements to say that the money is safe. SKNA has been mum on this question.

5) What's going on now?

Epassporte says:

"September 16, 2010

ePassporte N.V. has had several extensive meetings with St. Kitts Nevis Anguilla National Bank (the “Bank”) in an effort to resume operations and card functionality.

We are encouraged and believe these meetings and ongoing discussions with the Bank will result in all card functions becoming operational shortly, although a date has not yet been determined.

ePassporte and St Kitts Nevis Anguilla National Bank want to assure cardholders that their funds are safe and that resuming operations is a key and attainable goal."

They also ask to leave Mr. Elias alone

Links:

http://www.thestkittsnevisobserver.c...ntroversy.html

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/09/f...porte-edition/

Last edited by eurabia; 09-23-2010, 12:43 AM.
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seeandsee

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#2

09-23-2010, 01:11 AM

where is our money?

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k0nr4d

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#3

09-23-2010, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by seeandsee

where is our money?

for the 500th time...IN MOTION!!!

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#4

09-23-2010, 01:47 AM

Nice Cliffnotes.

Regarding the "deficiency" , it seems to me the only real deficiency that could cause this is cash.

Epass and Visa both say the money is safe, but SKNA is silent. Why? Most likely because according to the agreements set forth long ago, they are required to cover the funds in an event like this. They probably asked Visa to suspend them because the risk was too great and the money just wasn't there.

There are only 2 things that could be deficient:

1) Cash
2) Documentation on epass card holders

1 is the only one that makes sense right now, it's the only reason there would be any problem discussing openly.

If it was 2 then cards would only be suspended for people who have not submitted adequate ID and there would be no problem announcing that to the world.

If the US government or law enforcement were involved, then there would be no problem announcing that either. It would be a believable excuse and likely accepted by many.

And regarding Mr. Elias, I think that given the fact they have asked people not to contact him, it is likely that contacting him is indeed the best way to get things moving.

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#5

09-23-2010, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by pompousjohn

If the US government or law enforcement were involved, then there would be no problem announcing that either. It would be a believable excuse and likely accepted by many.

No, they are forced by federal US law to keep their mouth shut.
That could explain why ePassporte, VISA and SKNB all have all been very vague in their statements.

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin109_sarmsb.pdf

Notification Prohibited
Federal law (31 U.S.C. 5318(g)(2)) provides that
a financial institution, and its directors, officers,
employees, and agents, who report suspicious
transactions to the government voluntarily or as
required by 31 CFR 103.20, may not notify any
person involved in the transaction that the
transaction has been reported.

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...uired-1282.php

Of course, it is still a very likely possibility that the money is not on the bank account.
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suesheboy

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#6

09-23-2010, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by pompousjohn

Nice Cliffnotes.

Regarding the "deficiency" , it seems to me the only real deficiency that could cause this is cash.

Epass and Visa both say the money is safe, but SKNA is silent. Why? Most likely because according to the agreements set forth long ago, they are required to cover the funds in an event like this. They probably asked Visa to suspend them because the risk was too great and the money just wasn't there.

There are only 2 things that could be deficient:

1) Cash
2) Documentation on epass card holders

1 is the only one that makes sense right now, it's the only reason there would be any problem discussing openly.

If it was 2 then cards would only be suspended for people who have not submitted adequate ID and there would be no problem announcing that to the world.

If the US government or law enforcement were involved, then there would be no problem announcing that either. It would be a believable excuse and likely accepted by many.

And regarding Mr. Elias, I think that given the fact they have asked people not to contact him, it is likely that contacting him is indeed the best way to get things moving.

well put

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suesheboy

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#7

09-23-2010, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by Zyber

No, they are forced by federal US law to keep their mouth shut.
That could explain why ePassporte, VISA and SKNB all have all been very vague in their statements.

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin109_sarmsb.pdf

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...uired-1282.php

Of course, it is still a very likely possibility that the money is not on the bank account.

No Way. Too many are involved left ion the dark unless the majority are terrorists and money launderers.

Guess again.

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#8

09-23-2010, 04:05 AM

Fuck Epass....
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#9

09-23-2010, 04:09 AM

Oh they know why it happened, seriously. Epass knows why this happened, and they also know what is going on, and what is up with our money. Its all a crock of shit, and be sure the money is gone. I've written it off, but it still pisses me off enough to post about it.
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#10

09-23-2010, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by Zyber

No, they are forced by federal US law to keep their mouth shut.
That could explain why ePassporte, VISA and SKNB all have all been very vague in their statements.

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin109_sarmsb.pdf

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...uired-1282.php

Of course, it is still a very likely possibility that the money is not on the bank account.

Does US law apply? It may have affect on US usage, but there is the rest of the world.
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#11

09-23-2010, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by eurabia

4) Is money on the cards safe?

Both Epassporte and VISA issued statements to say that the money is safe. SKNA has been mum on this question.

Based on everything I've read, VISA has never stated nor implied the money is safe.

VISA is a processing network - they don't hold the funds, SKNA does and they're not talking nor is ePassporte - are there sufficient funds to cover all virtual visa balances?

Simple question and yet still no definitive answer - that's a bad omen ... very possibly the money is gone!

Ron

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mOrrI

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#12

09-23-2010, 05:54 AM

This is really fucked up thing...

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#13

09-23-2010, 05:57 AM

Ill never ever again use ePass

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#14

09-23-2010, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by Zyber

No, they are forced by federal US law to keep their mouth shut.
That could explain why ePassporte, VISA and SKNB all have all been very vague in their statements.

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin109_sarmsb.pdf

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...uired-1282.php

Of course, it is still a very likely possibility that the money is not on the bank account.

Sounds like this applies only to reporting suspicious transactions. When you get to the point of freezing people's funds, I cannot imagine that you are prohibited to disclose the reason.

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#15

09-23-2010, 06:06 AM

More facts.

ACH - works only for US webmasters.
WIREs - works for 10 people, mostly in US and CA.
CARDs - works for a ~60% of webmasters, US mostly.

non-US webmasters are fucked and they are paying :-)
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#16

09-23-2010, 06:18 AM

Hi! I just want to add my 2cents to the problem!
Since Im not in USA, I need to get new payment options other than Payoneer, so I contacted my local CitiBank and they contacted me with an Account Rep in Miami, to try to open an account with them!
After I replied to +30 questions about who I am, where the funds come from, etc... I told the account rep about my old payment system, ePassporte and after that he told me that "Epassporte Closed because the problem with fake accounts and the origins of funds moved daily on the system" and they had a lot of legal issues with Visa because that. This is against lot of laws in USA.
I dont know if its true, it shocked me because I just named ePassporte, and he told me that.
This was on the reply of the "where funds come from" and he told me that all banks need to know some info about funds, to avoid me possibles suspensions/investigations about money laundering, etc.

Again, I dont know if its true, or if its related, I just want to post it, maybe someone got the same reply or something like that.
This could be one of the "program deficiencies" named lot of times since the ePass problem.

Damian
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#17

09-23-2010, 06:41 AM

Interesting.

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Darkcrni

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#18

09-23-2010, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by bolsex

Hi! I just want to add my 2cents to the problem!
Since Im not in USA, I need to get new payment options other than Payoneer, so I contacted my local CitiBank and they contacted me with an Account Rep in Miami, to try to open an account with them!
After I replied to +30 questions about who I am, where the funds come from, etc... I told the account rep about my old payment system, ePassporte and after that he told me that "Epassporte Closed because the problem with fake accounts and the origins of funds moved daily on the system" and they had a lot of legal issues with Visa because that. This is against lot of laws in USA.
I dont know if its true, it shocked me because I just named ePassporte, and he told me that.
This was on the reply of the "where funds come from" and he told me that all banks need to know some info about funds, to avoid me possibles suspensions/investigations about money laundering, etc.

Again, I dont know if its true, or if its related, I just want to post it, maybe someone got the same reply or something like that.
This could be one of the "program deficiencies" named lot of times since the ePass problem.

Damian

That's why they are asking ID's for how many god knows times!
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signupdamnit

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#19

09-23-2010, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by bolsex

Hi! I just want to add my 2cents to the problem!
Since Im not in USA, I need to get new payment options other than Payoneer, so I contacted my local CitiBank and they contacted me with an Account Rep in Miami, to try to open an account with them!
After I replied to +30 questions about who I am, where the funds come from, etc... I told the account rep about my old payment system, ePassporte and after that he told me that "Epassporte Closed because the problem with fake accounts and the origins of funds moved daily on the system" and they had a lot of legal issues with Visa because that. This is against lot of laws in USA.
I dont know if its true, it shocked me because I just named ePassporte, and he told me that.
This was on the reply of the "where funds come from" and he told me that all banks need to know some info about funds, to avoid me possibles suspensions/investigations about money laundering, etc.

Again, I dont know if its true, or if its related, I just want to post it, maybe someone got the same reply or something like that.
This could be one of the "program deficiencies" named lot of times since the ePass problem.

Damian

Although second hand, it actually makes sense. It would fit in line with the frantic ID verification craziness some have experienced in recent years and months. It could also explain some of the secrecy. Thank you for sharing this information with us.

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gumdrop

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#20

09-23-2010, 06:55 AM

Check the Visa list of PCI compliant companies (http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan...-providers.pdf) and I can’t find ePassporte or any of these other related companies on the list.

ePassporte would need to pass an annual third party security audit since it looks like it runs the back-end for its cards and bills users’ credit cards to load accounts.

This could explain why they were shut down so suddenly.

I can’t imagine Visa would allow the cards to be re-activated until it has passed a PCI audit.

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#21

09-23-2010, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by eurabia

According to VISA, there were certain "program deficiencies", and SKNA asked VISA to suspend the cards, and VISA did so.

SKNA stands by VISA's statement and provides no further information. That means they confirm that they asked VISA to suspend the cards.

According to Epassporte they don't "fully understand" why the cards were suspended. Please note that Epassporte's statement allows for the possibility that they do understand why... just not "fully".

Actually there was a post in that long thread that VISA replied to someone that "certain program deficiencies" meant "luck of adherence to necessary controls" or something like that.

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eurabia

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#22

09-24-2010, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by k0nr4d

for the 500th time...IN MOTION!!!

lol........
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eurabia

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#23

09-24-2010, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by Ron Bennett

Based on everything I've read, VISA has never stated nor implied the money is safe.

Incorrect. Here's VISA's statement verbatim. Relevant part bolded.

?At the request of St. Kitts-Nevis-Anguilla National Bank (SKNA), on September 2, 2010, Visa blocked network access for prepaid cards issued by SKNA and operated by ePassporte.com to address certain program deficiencies. ePassporte.com is a third-party agent that works with SKNA.

?It is important to note that impacted SKNA prepaid cardholders are still able to access their funds through SKNA or SKNA?s agent, ePassporte.com. For more information cardholders should contact SKNA or ePassporte.com.

?Visa is committed to maintaining the integrity of its global payment network and routinely conducts due diligence to ensure Visa prepaid programs adhere to the company?s stringent program requirements and controls.?

Source: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/09/v...ks-epassporte/
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