in what ways has the constitution been trampled?

be specific please, and support your arguments.

vague generalizations and vague emotions are valid arguments only for children and women.

I guess you don't understand anything about the Tea Party, they're not a party. They are a movement

It suprises me that a democrat would openly agree there is a problem, given they have been in charge for 4 years

The Teabaggers are fruitcakes as a whole, but there is a kernel of a good idea there.

When someone pretends that there is a secret kenyan muslim criminal in "their" white house, and crazy people believe them, you'd better pay attention. Point taken.

ahh, I see. so you are just a republican after all. and the tea party is a fraud, pretending to be independent, but actually is merely the nutty branch of the republican tree.

yes, that makes sense.

so, when the tea party takes power, it will just be more republicanism.

too bad, really. one would have hoped for more.

Politicians telling other politicians to stop being politicians? :winkwink:

What the fuck are you talking about? What part of they're not a party don't you understand?

does everyone in Canada think like you?

i'm not entirely sure what the baggers are yet....

but time will soon tell.

I am talking, as before, about passing laws and writing budgets.

laws and budgets are what drives actual change. talking points and vague generalities like "they shouldn't build that mosque there" are fine for cable news, but they don't actually change anything.

and you just told me that the tea people are, really, just republicans.

which, as I said, makes sense.

but is a dissapointment. i had hoped for revolutionary action of some sort, not tired old republican canards.

why do you think the politicians are willing to consider legalizing pot?
same perspective, they neutralize the masses, give them their drugs, fatty unhealthy food to all and the masses will not bother those who really control the world.

and c'mon Vendzilla..
Obama hardly creating the housing crisis which is the major core of the financial crisis.
clinton was actually involved in that, as well as the inability to fathom that something has to be done with the healthcare system as well as the social security system.
the USA have lived well above their means for decades, sure it hurts now but you are old enough to have harvested those good years.
consider being a college grad today? Not too good is it...

How the fuck to except anyone to answer your post when you keep jumping all over the fucking place?

You think the Tea Party are the same as the GOP, are you fucking clueless? Did you just not see what happeed in Alaska and do you not know who Christine O'Donnell is?

As far as writting budgets, yeah thats going well, do you know how big the budget deficit is for next year?

And saying those are all talking points is a bunch of shit, try answering them

For votes and taxes

My daughter is going to college and she's doing it without my help, the way she wants it. She did her time in the Navy and is getting aid from uncle sam. I'll be helping her some, but for the most part, she should graduate in 10 years from medical school with little to no debt

The housing market crisis, Obama was a senator during that, I blame the whole fucking government for that, anyone that owned a house, like I do, knew that there was going to be a problem, I mean, interest only loans?

\

I'm not jumping, I've repeated the same question 3 times now.

what laws will your side pass? what will your side cut from the budget? what will your side add to the budget?

you are evading, and probably because you haven't thought about practical things like laws, which is understandable if you are still in the talking points stage.

okay, tell you what, you pick a talking point, and we will discuss it. your choice, so feel free to pick the hardest one.

pick just one. your side has a tendency to try to use volume over quality. lets focus.

I've already said talking points are emotional, laws are what causes change, so you can expect me to ask what laws will your side pass to address the emotions of the talking point. but I'm happy to discuss them, one by one, reasonably.

My side, where do you see I have a side?
What evading? I told you exactly what I felt, hook on Ebonics not working?

I gave you a list, feel free to choice from them

okay, how about the mosque issue. that was last on your list, if I recall.

will you support the republicans passing laws against mosques?

how about laws against burqua's, like in france?

what is your legal premise behind outlawing mosques, either in general, or within some arbitrary distance from the world trade site?

what powers will you give the government to fight mosques?

how much should the government spend on anti-mosque bureaus?

what should the republicans (i say republicans, because your tea people are all running as republicans) do to fight islam?

personally, I'm not terribly interested in islam or mosques, i'm not religious so it's not important to me if you start outlawing a religion, but you put it last on your list, so presumably it's important.

for votes exactly cause its what the masses want, regardless if its good for you, them or us.. the tax thing is a bonus for the politicians. so the politicians gets votes to stay in office and keep getting their fat checks from corp america.

my point is that Clinton and the entire entourage incl Obama has been part of just doing what the masses want right now, talk about instant gratification and no worries for the future..
one of the main concerns here is the debt owed by USA
only a radical directional change in the US economy could possible elleviate this building pressure, perhaps a war larger than the current small skirmishes in the gulf region...

look, in america there is separation between religion and government, but be warned only christianity is acceptable as a religion...

btw, one of the main reasons the head cover (burka) is illegal in france is for security reasons.

they should make it a land mark because of the landing gear hitting it and be done with it, build a community outreach center there that doesn't have any one religion

yeah, if we did that, then the traffic camera's wouldn't work
thats why we can't have tinted windows in california

feelings are for women and children, we are two men here, discussing important practical issues, so feelings really have no place. money and law are a more solid foundation.

i dont speak ebonics. hardly any use for it, growing up on the farm.

lets see, let's look for your list...

see, this is what i mean about talking points being emotional. damn, your list is strange. sorry, but I'm having a hard time following it.

Did you read your own list? no wonder you didn't want to pick one.

---
I believe our trade should be balanced, we consume more than we export and that needs to change, Harley Davidson was having trouble keeping up with the new big bikes of Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki, so congress levied a import tax on bikes over 700cc's. Harley had them remove it before the scheduled date because they prospered. Learn from history.
---

a luxury toy like a harley is a hard thing to base economic decisions on.

so, what will the republicans do to balance trade? what did they do in the past?

you just said no tariffs - so okay, no republican tariffs, sounds fine to me.

but, no tariffs wont reduce the trade imbalance - should increase it by making imported goods cheaper.

what would you do then?

---

now, what would _I_ do? I'd say that having a working manufacturing base inside this country is a national security issue, and divert defense spending into building the next generation of manufacturing facilities in country, focusing on industries with security benefits that use raw materials from inside the country.

so basically my answer would be to take defense money spent of foreign bases and spend it instead to build subsidized american factories producing strategic goods.

otherwise, in twenty years, just when the oil wars start, we won't be in a position to fight. the critical electronics in our weapons are mostly made out of the US now.

or, we can do nothing. we dont need manufacturing in the US, right? better no manufacturing than allowing the government to interfere.

...

what will the tea party "movement" do to balance trade? well, they can't pass laws and write budgets, you argue, because they are a movement. they could all decide to stop buying imported goods? You think they will?

the dem power elite are neoliberals who adopted the reagan-thatcher free trade premise and used it to empower the corporations to move manufacturing out of the country. so I agree, trade imbalance is bottom of the list for the dem elite. thats why they need to go.

they should give away free beer and pizza, but saying "they should" is not a realistic argument for or about anything.

presumably the tea party can collect together enough money to buy that building, that would be very noble.

but what if the muslim americans decide to take that tea party money and build a mosque even closer?

this however is irrelevant - we are talking about government, laws, and budgets.

what should the GOVERNMENT do?

a swift war with china would fix many things (if we win..)

joking aside, the government must insist on the chinese currency being free'd and allow free trade with china and its growing middleclass.
USA must start manufacturing more high tech and value added goods (ie manufacturing equipment etc).
We must let the dollar slip even further against asian and european currencies, in the long term this is where we can make progress.
Also, oil should be taxed to a level of $5 per gallon, perhaps with the devaluation of the dollar it will happen naturally.
We have to curb the rampant over use of energy in USA, the tax money should be given or lent to private industry building engine technology not using oil/gas.
None of this is popular so lets make pot legal, just to appease anyone thinking of making a big deal out of it....

Not my call
yeah, they'll do to marijuana what they did to tobacco

it's easy to attack things, and let "they shoulds" rule the day.

a lot harder to think of realistic ways to accomplish good things.

if you study the uncomfortable realities of realpolitik, and contemplate root causes, you'll be in a much better position to help your side acheive it's aims.

I wish you success. my side is fucked beyond all recognition, I need your help to rip out their guts.

they don't want pot legalized, they are setting it up for failure.

why?

marijuana is a mild hallucinogen and extended hallucinogen use has the ability to break minds free from the manufactured reality and the fake economy. in other words, it opens doors of awareness they don't want opened.

The answers are easy, they would just piss off a lot of people
read this
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...79-503544.html

I finished some green crack, thinking about that 1/2 of Bubba Kush I stuff in a bottle of Sailor Jerry rum. I think I'll strain out the bud and see what this rum can do! It's been sitting for over a month!!! LMAO

speaking in terms of realpolitik, it might be possible to harness tea party and fox news islamophobia by calling for a tax on "muslim oil". the right wing seems to embrace militaristic taxation, and taxation as moral punishment.

the rights eagerness to embrace the sauds is one of the ironies of our time

however, to be realistic, we should be focusing on things the right wing is actually able to do, once they are in power. they can't defy the corporations either - at least, they never have - so it has to be something the corporations will allow.

and they won't allow such a tax. it would be an actual hardship, and their power is based on our comfort.

i probably dont extract from that the same meanings you do.

i didn't read anything that sounded technically incorrect, altho I don't trust anything obama says, he's a puppet for the corporations, managed by the corrupt powers of wall street.

is there something on that page you wanted to discuss?

Just that Obama is feeling the heat

there are no answers per say in that piece.
it's mostly blame shifting, misdirection, discrediting, and perpetuation of the lie.

but there is some truth.
it is not the obvious suggested fake truth, but the real truth behind the lies.
allow me to translate...

classic "we didn't do it, it was them". finger pointing, misdirection, dog & pony show, soap opera, etc... call it by any name you like. it is a show.


here he weakens & disarms them by lowering the importance of skepticism to a mere tradition. a ritual not to be taken seriously.



more blame shifting, finger pointing, etc.



those economists will tell you whatever they are told to tell you.



more demonization of the Tea Party.
do you see here how he is working on the emotions of people?
why did he only mention hypothetical cuts to government social programs, and more specifically, ones that affect the old and the disabled?
why didn't he mention cuts to anything else that can be and should be cut?




simple dissing of the right. just more show.



in this statement you can clearly see how this being, this man, this person, this entity is defining your reality for you.



of course.
what you should be asking is, why?

Quote:

"...understand that there are facts and a reality there that go beyond the political rhetoric."

this was a piece of truth.







.

right, i get your point, you really dont care about facts or issues, you just hate that fuckin darky and the only thing that matters is wether or not your tribe seems to be scoring points.

a fuckin slice of hot american pie, with double scoops of cable news emotion.

i'll keep that in mind.

thats why i am saying feed the pot to the masses so they have comfort in that whilst they are paying $5/gallon..
btw, here in America we spell it politic, even communism is spelled with a c.
i am guessing not where you come from...

Obama will kill all of you!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12.../EvilObama.gif

lmk how that worked for ya'

it's not that they are giving us pot to increase comfort, remember pot is a hallucinogen. they don't want us to have it. but they have realized that prohibition and their outdated propaganda isn't working anymore, so it is being slowly integrated into society (i.e. California) so that it can be taxed, users are documented & cataloged, and more importantly, it's supply can be strictly controlled. this temporary phase of increasing abundance is counter-productive yet necessary for slow integration & maximum acceptance. after acceptance, control will have been achieved and the threat reduced or eliminated by simply restricting supply.

a republican vote killer :winkwink:

maybe... maybe not.

but that is superficial. there is a simpler truth to them. i'm just not sure what it is yet.

funny, i use the term "they" as a group name for the masses, you use it for the invisible perhaps imaginary authority..controlling the masses. we must be on the opposite sides of the table.
dont know about you but i am about to put on my foil hat and call it a goodnight:winkwink::winkwink:

realpolitik is a technical term, commonly used in diplomacy and even more commonly in political science. you'll see it used often in discussions of political theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

realpolitic doesn't have the same meaning, afaik, and I've never seen it used technically. the k at the end refer's to the word's origins in political theory.

if you got comfort from smoking weed while fuel prices jumped just before the collapse, that must be some amazing weed.

since weed is commonly available now and anyone who wants it can get it, it's hard to argue that legalized weed would be the soma of our time. alcohol is a much more effective tranquilizer, and is legal already, as are the various readily available tranquilizing drugs manufactured by big pharma. i would counter-argue that the serotonin antagonists and xanax are the soma of our time.

but we all have our pet theories and stalking horses, if legalizing pot is yours, have at it.

it's too bad you didn't bite on muslim oil.