Torrent lawsuits hit major media

[SteveLightspeed]

From EL Pais, in Spain. Anyone read Spanish?

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/porta...lptenpor_7/Tes

[TheDA]

You should send them the gif in your sig to illustrate the article, instead of this crap they have on there

>>>

[Roald]

http://translate.google.com/translat...tenpor_7%2FTes

[grumpy]

use chrome, instant translation

[V_RocKs]

It would be nice to see this thing pay for itself with enough profit to cover brand new cases being expanded. Then perhaps by x-mas it will be up to 10,000 and by next year 100,000 and five years from now people will worry about an audit from Steve Lightspeed more than they fear an audit from the IRS!

[Tempest]

I just can't stop watching this...

[Paul Markham]

It would be nice to see this thing pay for itself with enough profit to cover brand new cases being expanded. Then perhaps by x-mas it will be up to 10,000 and by next year 100,000 and five years from now people will worry about an audit from Steve Lightspeed more than they fear an audit from the IRS!

If this can be turned to something that self finances or even produces a profit the whole thing will snowball. Then it will be time to take on the major Tubes and find out exactly who the uploaders are.

As for "suing fans" they have options. Stop downloading pirated porn or start paying for their porn or stop looking at porn all together. My guess is they will go back to paying for porn.

[darksoul]

how is that major media ?

[Jarmusch]

Then it will be time to take on the major Tubes and find out exactly who the uploaders are.

The uploaders are the site owners.

[v4 media]

how is that major media ?

El Pais is probably the biggest paper in Spain, if not the biggest at least in the top 3.
Or are you of the opinion that if it's not in a US paper it doesn't exist?

[SteveLightspeed]

El Pais is probably the biggest paper in Spain, if not the biggest at least in the top 3.
Or are you of the opinion that if it's not in a US paper it doesn't exist?

Wiki says they sell an average of 400k newspapers daily in Spain.

[DamianJ]

I like the bit about this being like going after drug addicts rather than drug dealers.

[Nathan]

I like the bit about this being like going after drug addicts rather than drug dealers.

Yes, lovely quote, very Pro-Lightspeed, lol...

This is also not bad though:

Steele, a Chicago lawyer for 39 years that he drew a dollar sign in the eyes as he spoke with some friends producing porn for the Network

Although the drug addicts one is clearly the best....

I actually wonder how their "foolproof" software works too... Considering that it is likely not enough in court to actually prove that to ip at some point download a cluster from the torrent, but that it downloaded every single one and did not miss a single one of them, since without all the file is not usable usually. At least if certain parts are missing, like the beginning or end.

I also wonder how they prove that the file called XYZ is actually XYZ...

But then again, who cares.. the point is settlement anyway, this never gets to court, so why bother REALLY collecting all the evidence I guess..

[SteveLightspeed]

Nathan, you are becoming a real pompous ASS. You are almost as annoying lately as GideonIdiot. Your arrogance will be your downfall.

Steve Lightspeed

[DamianJ]

I actually wonder how their "foolproof" software works too... Considering that it is likely not enough in court to actually prove that to ip at some point download a cluster from the torrent, but that it downloaded every single one and did not miss a single one of them, since without all the file is not usable usually. At least if certain parts are missing, like the beginning or end.

I also wonder how they prove that the file called XYZ is actually XYZ...

But then again, who cares.. the point is settlement anyway, this never gets to court, so why bother REALLY collecting all the evidence I guess..

That's only the start!

a) How do they prove that the person paying for the IP downloaded the file?
b) How do they prove the file was actually downloaded?
c) How do they prove the file was actually what they claim it is?
d) Have they not heard of IP Spoofing?
e) Have they not heard of unsecured wifi?

Basically, you can't prove it. You would have to go to the guy's house, get all of the computers in there, find the file he allegedly downloaded and show the court that is your copyrighted content.

Far too much trouble. Miles better to just blackmail fans of your work and potential customers and hope to get some hush money out of them.

[Nathan]

Nathan, you are becoming a real pompous ASS. You are almost as annoying lately as GideonIdiot. Your arrogance will be your downfall.

Steve Lightspeed

Steve, YOU are the one that is being so arrogant. YOU are the one that made me post this much. You can just not shut the fuck up about your "crusade". That's just ridiculously sad. Just do your thing but stop trying to be big-steve who needs a pat on the back from every webmaster on GFY. You have your little group of followers, and that's it... all your posts about this are just going to make you look even more stupid when you fail at what you are trying to achieve...

I said it before, and I will say so again, your actions against DOWNLOADERS are complete and utter crap. You will never prevail there, and I know your answer will again be some stupid remark about how I am afraid my tubes will fail because of you...

WE SEND MORE DMCA NOTICES A DAY THAN YOU DO. Get it in your thick skull finally that you are not some god-sent guy.

I loved your content in the past, a few years ago you kept releasing great new girls, and so on... This completely stopped years ago, and now you complain you are nolonger making money?! PLEASE!

[Nathan]

@Damian... Thank you for the open an honest truth!

Steve, I am not saying your are actually trying to just blackmail people.. obviously you are not. I understand your frustration, I understand that you want to really get rid of certain things. And sure, go ahead and try...

BUT PLEASE accept the fact that what you are doing in the end simply is trying to get people to SETTLE with you that you sue based on an IP some software gave you...

I _BET_ that a software giving a random IP will work at least 80% as "efficiently" at getting people to settle as the actual software you are using...

Instead of putting so much energy into this approach, you should put your energy back into producing content and use the services sites like mine have to offer to actually make _GOOD SALES_.. just ASK the other studios trying it, it IS WORKING...

[RazorSharpe]

Yes, lovely quote, very Pro-Lightspeed, lol...

This is also not bad though:



Although the drug addicts one is clearly the best....

I actually wonder how their "foolproof" software works too... Considering that it is likely not enough in court to actually prove that to ip at some point download a cluster from the torrent, but that it downloaded every single one and did not miss a single one of them, since without all the file is not usable usually. At least if certain parts are missing, like the beginning or end.

I also wonder how they prove that the file called XYZ is actually XYZ...

But then again, who cares.. the point is settlement anyway, this never gets to court, so why bother REALLY collecting all the evidence I guess..

Intent? Intent works for most other cases like, intent to defraud, intent to distribute drugs, intent to commit murder. Intent in itself is a crime so why the distinction when it comes to people stealing content?

[Klen]

Correction:

Steve, YOU are the one that is being so arrogant. YOU are the one that made me post this much. You can just not shut the fuck up about your "crusade". That's just ridiculously sad. Just do your thing but stop trying to be big-steve who needs a pat on the back from every webmaster on GFY. You have your little group of followers, and that's it... all your posts about this are just going to make you look even more stupid when you fail at what you are trying to achieve...

I said it before, and I will say so again, your actions against DOWNLOADERS are complete and utter crap. You will never prevail there, and I know your answer will again be some stupid remark about how I am afraid my tubes will fail because of you...

WE RECEIVE MORE DMCA NOTICES A DAY THAN YOU DO. Get it in your thick skull finally that you are not some god-sent guy.

I loved your content in the past, a few years ago you kept releasing great new girls, and so on... This completely stopped years ago, and now you complain you are nolonger making money?! PLEASE!

[Nathan]

Intent? Intent works for most other cases like, intent to defraud, intent to distribute drugs, intent to commit murder. Intent in itself is a crime so why the distinction when it comes to people stealing content?

Sure,

so you just proved "Intent of downloading a file called 'XYZ'" ... now how do you prove that is actually illegal? Without having a copy of that file XYZ and can prove its the same one and not just renamed? Many many things...

[Paul Markham]

The uploaders are the site owners.

Then building a fund to go after them in court is a good thing.

[Paul Markham]

I actually wonder how their "foolproof" software works too... Considering that it is likely not enough in court to actually prove that to ip at some point download a cluster from the torrent, but that it downloaded every single one and did not miss a single one of them, since without all the file is not usable usually. At least if certain parts are missing, like the beginning or end.

I also wonder how they prove that the file called XYZ is actually XYZ...

But then again, who cares.. the point is settlement anyway, this never gets to court, so why bother REALLY collecting all the evidence I guess..

I love your attitude of being such a good guy and worrying about innocent surfers who might get caught up in this mess that PIRATES created. Yes people who own sites like yours are the cause of this mess. Content owners are doing what little they can to protect their investment.

Let's see how much you want to protect your surfers and customers. I see adverts on your site for dating sites and penis enlargements. Well we all know those dating sites are a con and anyone who tried a penis enlarger found out how well they work. So please don't try and come off as the good guy worried about a surfer getting caught up in a mess companies like yours created. While you're ripping off those same surfers yourself to fund your Tube sites.

Or is it all right for you to con surfers to fund your wages?

[Paul Markham]

That's only the start!

a) How do they prove that the person paying for the IP downloaded the file?
b) How do they prove the file was actually downloaded?
c) How do they prove the file was actually what they claim it is?
d) Have they not heard of IP Spoofing?
e) Have they not heard of unsecured wifi?

Basically, you can't prove it. You would have to go to the guy's house, get all of the computers in there, find the file he allegedly downloaded and show the court that is your copyrighted content.

Far too much trouble. Miles better to just blackmail fans of your work and potential customers and hope to get some hush money out of them.

Damian. They are welcome to their day in court where they can bring their computers in to show they're the innocent party. As the plaintiff is free to seize the computer to prove they're the guilt party.

The accused are not convicted by getting a summons. It's a chance for them to get their day in court. If they prove themselves innocent the penalties on the plaintiff will more than compensate them.

As for potential customers. If that were even remotely true we would all be earning a fortune from Tube sites using the industries content.

Posted by Damian on another board.

No-one said Brazzers do not make money from stealing content and putting it on a tube site Pauly, did they?

I said it wasn't worth bothering trying to stop piracy because it doesn't represent a lost sale.

The RIAA recently agreed with me. You like them, so you must now agree with them?

I guess his own statements show his feelings.

[Miguel]

That's only the start!

a) How do they prove that the person paying for the IP downloaded the file?
b) How do they prove the file was actually downloaded?
c) How do they prove the file was actually what they claim it is?
d) Have they not heard of IP Spoofing?
e) Have they not heard of unsecured wifi?

Basically, you can't prove it. You would have to go to the guy's house, get all of the computers in there, find the file he allegedly downloaded and show the court that is your copyrighted content.

Far too much trouble. Miles better to just blackmail fans of your work and potential customers and hope to get some hush money out of them.

It's possible. I'll post update once we have positive cases.

[Chezter]

I hope this will hit some real major media, they need to feel fear before downloading anything for free)

[Miguel]

If it works, I'll give out my content to pirates by myself, so they don't bother of stealing it from our sites

[CaptainHowdy]

¡Muy bueno!

[fris]

Steve, YOU are the one that is being so arrogant. YOU are the one that made me post this much. You can just not shut the fuck up about your "crusade". That's just ridiculously sad. Just do your thing but stop trying to be big-steve who needs a pat on the back from every webmaster on GFY. You have your little group of followers, and that's it... all your posts about this are just going to make you look even more stupid when you fail at what you are trying to achieve...

I said it before, and I will say so again, your actions against DOWNLOADERS are complete and utter crap. You will never prevail there, and I know your answer will again be some stupid remark about how I am afraid my tubes will fail because of you...

WE SEND MORE DMCA NOTICES A DAY THAN YOU DO. Get it in your thick skull finally that you are not some god-sent guy.

I loved your content in the past, a few years ago you kept releasing great new girls, and so on... This completely stopped years ago, and now you complain you are nolonger making money?! PLEASE!

i bet people send you guys more dmca notices than you send out for stealing everyones content on your tubes, funny enough you cant find a brazzers clip over 5 mins on your network of tubes, but you can find everyone elses 30mins+ that they paid good money to have produced, funny that you want to protect your investment by limiting the viewing to your content, but you have no limits on content you have no right to be showing.

[RazorSharpe]

Sure,

so you just proved "Intent of downloading a file called 'XYZ'" ... now how do you prove that is actually illegal? Without having a copy of that file XYZ and can prove its the same one and not just renamed? Many many things...

Yes Nathan and the further burden of proof continues to lie with the accuser. You can claim someone had intent to murder another but you still need to prove it. This isn't any different. I'm not sure why you are taking such an aggressive stance on this especially considering that a court of law will not just find a defendant guilty without due process. So no "innocent" surfers are getting unjustly punished here; in fact some not so innocent surfers may even get a walk if their accusers cannot put together a strong enough case.

Given all of the above, I would be really interested in understanding what exactly is making you so angry with this line of protection? What aspect of it do you find ethically wrong? Please understand that I am not bashing you, I am merely trying to understand your point of view.

[Nathan]

i bet people send you guys more dmca notices than you send out for stealing everyones content on your tubes, funny enough you cant find a brazzers clip over 5 mins on your network of tubes, but you can find everyone elses 30mins+ that they paid good money to have produced, funny that you want to protect your investment by limiting the viewing to your content, but you have no limits on content you have no right to be showing.

Interesting enough, we get far less DMCAs than we send, but obviously you do not believe me.

[JFK]

Steve, YOU are the one that is being so arrogant. YOU are the one that made me post this much. You can just not shut the fuck up about your "crusade". That's just ridiculously sad. Just do your thing but stop trying to be big-steve who needs a pat on the back from every webmaster on GFY. You have your little group of followers, and that's it... all your posts about this are just going to make you look even more stupid when you fail at what you are trying to achieve...

I said it before, and I will say so again, your actions against DOWNLOADERS are complete and utter crap. You will never prevail there, and I know your answer will again be some stupid remark about how I am afraid my tubes will fail because of you...

WE SEND MORE DMCA NOTICES A DAY THAN YOU DO. Get it in your thick skull finally that you are not some god-sent guy.

I loved your content in the past, a few years ago you kept releasing great new girls, and so on... This completely stopped years ago, and now you complain you are nolonger making money?! PLEASE!

I am one of those Steve 'followers' if you will. He wears his heart on his sleve and has contributed more to this industry, for the good of it, than you ever will

[Nathan]

Yes Nathan and the further burden of proof continues to lie with the accuser. You can claim someone had intent to murder another but you still need to prove it. This isn't any different. I'm not sure why you are taking such an aggressive stance on this especially considering that a court of law will not just find a defendant guilty without due process. So no "innocent" surfers are getting unjustly punished here; in fact some not so innocent surfers may even get a walk if their accusers cannot put together a strong enough case.

Given all of the above, I would be really interested in understanding what exactly is making you so angry with this line of protection? What aspect of it do you find ethically wrong? Please understand that I am not bashing you, I am merely trying to understand your point of view.

RazorSharpe,

because as both Steve's lawyer and Steve himself has repeatedly said here, their goal is NOT to get them infront of a court. Their goal is to SETTLE with them OUTSIDE of a court, based on the logic that they do not want to be seen as porn watchers.

THAT is my problem with this appraoch, since too many innocent ones will be caught in the cross fire.

[Nathan]

I am one of those Steve 'followers' if you will. He wears his heart on his sleve and has contributed more to this industry, for the good of it, than you ever will

JFK, you do not even know me, or know what I did in the past or will do in the future...

[mlove]

oh look, steve's posting about piracy again.

[RazorSharpe]

RazorSharpe,

because as both Steve's lawyer and Steve himself has repeatedly said here, their goal is NOT to get them infront of a court. Their goal is to SETTLE with them OUTSIDE of a court, based on the logic that they do not want to be seen as porn watchers.

THAT is my problem with this appraoch, since too many innocent ones will be caught in the cross fire.

Nathan, do you feel it is ok for producers to be screwed by end users as well as tubes and have no recourse what-so-ever? Tubes are protected by what is a very flawed law in the form of DMCA and when producers shift their target to end users you feel this is incorrect? So where do you propose they go to for justice? Unless you are of the opinion that they should not have any sort of justice and that their hard work does not constitute being taken seriously and is fair game for tubes to exploit for their own monetary gain ....

What am I missing here Nathan? Surely you can't expect the balance of power to be totally in favour of tubes and end-users. Who looks out for the real victims, in this case, the producers?

[RazorSharpe]

oh look, steve's posting about piracy again.

I didn't see anyone screaming out for a retard in this thread. Rest assured, if we need you, we'll call you. Now kindly fuck off ....

[mlove]

I didn't see anyone screaming out for a retard in this thread. Rest assured, if we need you, we'll call you. Now kindly fuck off ....

hitting the bottle a little early today?

[RazorSharpe]

hitting the bottle a little early today?

So your point is the even a drunk person can see you're a retard?

[mlove]

So your point is the even a drunk person can see you're a retard?

You sound pretty angry. What's going on man?

[lol_cat]

Interesting thread indeed. It's been done in the music industry I believe. Check out torrent freak: torrentfreak. com/file-sharing-lawyers-to-face-disciplinary-tribunal-100823/

I dunno if it's similar or not but there you go. I honestly wonder what's next after torrents. There will probably be some bullet proof system where it's near impossible to track people

Oh an for the record, I am a web host. I occasionally get DMCA notices to pass onto my clients. Even for the servers I host in Europe and the UK, I pass on DMCA. I don't even know if it applies there, but I pass them on anyway.

[JFK]

JFK, you do not even know me, or know what I did in the past or will do in the future...

That maybe true, so post some things, to prove me wrong ! Why knock, one of the good guys in this industry ? He may not be doing things the way you agree with, but he IS doing something, out of convition. NOT sitting by the sidelines and critisising

[Grapesoda]

That's only the start!

a) How do they prove that the person paying for the IP downloaded the file?
b) How do they prove the file was actually downloaded?
c) How do they prove the file was actually what they claim it is?
d) Have they not heard of IP Spoofing?
e) Have they not heard of unsecured wifi?

Basically, you can't prove it. You would have to go to the guy's house, get all of the computers in there, find the file he allegedly downloaded and show the court that is your copyrighted content.

Far too much trouble. Miles better to just blackmail fans of your work and potential customers and hope to get some hush money out of them.

hee hee... try all that shit out on the IRS... it wasn't me, someone stole my ss card... my bank account, they were driving my car etc etc etc...

[RazorSharpe]

You sound pretty angry. What's going on man?

What gives you the impression that I'm angry? I even said "kindly" fuck off ....

[DamianJ]

hee hee... try all that shit out on the IRS... it wasn't me, someone stole my ss card... my bank account, they were driving my car etc etc etc...

If you think an IP address is the same as a bank account, I am awfully glad you aren't a tax lawyer.

Innocent until proven guilty, right? Or has that changed?

[Agent 488]

ok update your sites now it's 2010 not 99.

[Grapesoda]

Steve, YOU are the one that is being so arrogant. YOU are the one that made me post this much. You can just not shut the fuck up about your "crusade". That's just ridiculously sad. Just do your thing but stop trying to be big-steve who needs a pat on the back from every webmaster on GFY. You have your little group of followers, and that's it... all your posts about this are just going to make you look even more stupid when you fail at what you are trying to achieve...

I said it before, and I will say so again, your actions against DOWNLOADERS are complete and utter crap. You will never prevail there, and I know your answer will again be some stupid remark about how I am afraid my tubes will fail because of you...

WE SEND MORE DMCA NOTICES A DAY THAN YOU DO. Get it in your thick skull finally that you are not some god-sent guy.

I loved your content in the past, a few years ago you kept releasing great new girls, and so on... This completely stopped years ago, and now you complain you are nolonger making money?! PLEASE!

hi nathan... let me say as a producer I don't have a dog in this fight... other than the over all collapse of the on-line biz... which all my clients tell me is directly related to brazzers.

these are some pretty smart guys so I gotta think they aren't just paranoid, and they know what the fuck they are talking about... like when I take my car to the shop... I believe it when they tell me my tire is flat etc...

now one of the agencies I spoke with the other day just loves the fuck out of brazzers. tells me they are booking 20 scenes a month with you guys. (never mind the 50 scenes they aren't booking, or the 5 agencies and 20 production companies that have collapsed due to the over all loss of on-line sales)

I will say this though, you just sorta appeared out of nowhere with "I'm the new mysterious owner on manwhatthefck that sounds sorta like manwhothefuck with the exact same address and shit but we are not connected in any way" okay, I believe that... why not? I don't know you or your history etc etc etc.

now you're posting in threads with shit like "you are so stupid if you think you can stop torrents/tubes, we are not involved, we are fighting that shit like a flaming hot mother fucker and you have NO IDEA how lame you really are!!! that's cool, like I said... I'm sorta in the other end of the game and I don't really know you and I don't really have the insight into this other than what my my clients (like guys that have been around since 1997 and shit) tell me and the weird convoluted crap at GFY.

here's the thing though to me nathan, a little colloquium from down home if you will: "when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the dog that yelps the loudest is the dog that got hit."

-bmb

[Grapesoda]

If you think an IP address is the same as a bank account, I am awfully glad you aren't a tax lawyer.

Innocent until proven guilty, right? Or has that changed?

have fun

[Nathan]

Nathan, do you feel it is ok for producers to be screwed by end users as well as tubes and have no recourse what-so-ever? Tubes are protected by what is a very flawed law in the form of DMCA and when producers shift their target to end users you feel this is incorrect? So where do you propose they go to for justice? Unless you are of the opinion that they should not have any sort of justice and that their hard work does not constitute being taken seriously and is fair game for tubes to exploit for their own monetary gain ....

What am I missing here Nathan? Surely you can't expect the balance of power to be totally in favour of tubes and end-users. Who looks out for the real victims, in this case, the producers?

I said so multiple times, the uploaders of infringing material.

[Nathan]

That maybe true, so post some things, to prove me wrong ! Why knock, one of the good guys in this industry ? He may not be doing things the way you agree with, but he IS doing something, out of convition. NOT sitting by the sidelines and critisising

If you have read all my posts, you would have seen that I agree with him on many of his points, just this single one I do not.

I far from sit by the sidelines.

[RazorSharpe]

I said so multiple times, the uploaders of infringing material.

Yes but you are annoyed and extremely aggressive about them now trying to go after infringers.