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-   -   The GOP?s Intellectual Dishonesty Regarding Bush Tax Cuts (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=982059)

IllTestYourGirls 08-12-2010 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony299 (Post 17408946)
they need a flat tax everyone pays 15 percent no deductions no bullshit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/oct/31/usnews
"It would fair.Warren Buffett, the famous investor known as the "Sage of Omaha", has complained that he pays a lower rate of tax than any of his staff - including his receptionist. Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52bn (£25bn), said: "The taxation system has tilted towards the rich and away from the middle class in the last 10 years. It's dramatic; I don't think it's appreciated and I think it should be addressed."

A 1% VAT would bring in more money and hurt the poor less.

And btw, Warren Buffett is a hypocrite. He does not need to take all the tax breaks the rich have, yet he does, then bitches about it. Why does he not pay his "fair share" without the government forcing him to?

Brujah 08-12-2010 05:02 AM

Interesting reply on that article about Henry George, and LVT.

Quote:

There is a better formula for taxation. There is a method of taxation that is simple to define, easy to enforce, and is both pro-growth and progressive.

19th century economist Henry George proposed what he called the "single tax", also known as the land value tax (LVT).

Essentially, there would be no income or sales tax, only a tax on land values (land only, not buildings, as with a "property" tax).

Simple to define and enforce: The tax would be x percent of the assesed land value, no exceptions. You can try to hide income, but you can't hide land.

Progressive and pro-growth: The wealthy are disproportionate owners of high priced real estate and would pay the lion's share of the taxes, but the marginal tax on both income and consumption would be zero - a win-win for liberals and conservatives.

The philosophy: George believed that what you earn from your skill, profession or business belongs to you, 100%. But the part of your wealth that derives from the value of your land is due to the economic activity of the surrounding community (location, location, location) and is therefore fair game for taxation to support that community. Making money from the passive ownership of land is the true definition of "unearned income". If you build a farm, factory or store on that land, the earnings from that enterprise represent your efforts. But simply selling or collecting rent on the land requires no sweat or brains on your part.

Could LVT raise enough revenue? If my math is right, taxing all the privately held land in the US at an average of ten cents per square foot (obviously would be higher in Manhattan, NY, lower in Manhattan, KS) would yield about six trillion dollars.
Sends a sensible economic message: You make money by providing useful products and services, not by wheeling and dealing in real estate.

Google "Henry George"; more info than I can do justice to in this short post.

theking 08-12-2010 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls (Post 17409316)
A 1% VAT would bring in more money and hurt the poor less.

And btw, Warren Buffett is a hypocrite. He does not need to take all the tax breaks the rich have, yet he does, then bitches about it. Why does he not pay his "fair share" without the government forcing him to?

He pays what is required of him to pay...and his personal secretary pays what is required of her to pay...and his point is she is required to pay more than he is.

wig 08-12-2010 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking (Post 17409403)
He pays what is required of him to pay...and his personal secretary pays what is required of her to pay...and his point is she is required to pay more than he is.

Not to mention that he is giving 1/2 of his wealth away and has convinced others to similarly do so.

Half man, Half Amazing 08-12-2010 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls (Post 17409316)

And btw, Warren Buffett is a hypocrite. He does not need to take all the tax breaks the rich have, yet he does, then bitches about it. Why does he not pay his "fair share" without the government forcing him to?

Is that the same guy who's giving away half of his entire wealth? Yeah...what a dick. He should do something constructive like sit on GFY bitching and complaining about everything.

Tom_PM 08-12-2010 08:14 AM

The GOP is intellectually bankrupt. Any CEO's up for some golf?

Sly 08-12-2010 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls (Post 17409316)
A 1% VAT would bring in more money and hurt the poor less.

And btw, Warren Buffett is a hypocrite. He does not need to take all the tax breaks the rich have, yet he does, then bitches about it. Why does he not pay his "fair share" without the government forcing him to?

You can't really pay more taxes, it doesn't work like that. It's given back. That's where philanthropy comes into play.

Although I would like to see a breakdown on what his fortune would be like if taxes were what he suggests 65 years ago when he bought his first farm.

12clicks 08-12-2010 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17408499)
Fuck that. Tax them at....... 98%.

ahhh, the unaccomplished speaks.

12clicks 08-12-2010 08:23 AM

the wealthy are taxed enough. this country would work just fine if those who don't pay into it could not vote.

its no more difficult than that.

Amputate Your Head 08-12-2010 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 17409771)
ahhh, the unaccomplished speaks.

the inept answers.

sperbonzo 08-12-2010 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K (Post 17408448)
This is a current Newsweek article...


http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/the-ga...-tax-cuts.html

Newsweek = Journo List Member.


'Nuf said? :winkwink:



.

Tom_PM 08-12-2010 08:50 AM

Shoot the messenger? Nuff said

12clicks 08-12-2010 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 17409823)
Newsweek = Journo List Member.


'Nuf said? :winkwink:



.

a newsweek opinion piece about how high to tax the rich. amazing.

its truly incredible how unintelligent the rabble have become. They've completely bought into the eat the rich mentality. most likely because a fair self assessment reveals they don't have the intelligence to ever become wealthy themselves.

Bill8 08-12-2010 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 17409960)
a newsweek opinion piece about how high to tax the rich. amazing.

its truly incredible how unintelligent the rabble have become. They've completely bought into the eat the rich mentality. most likely because a fair self assessment reveals they don't have the intelligence to ever become wealthy themselves.

what a sad tale you spin. see this, jan2001, it's a fucking tear, for all the rich people.

it says nothing new, repeats tired republican talking points and invokes cliches without apologizing for them, solves no problems, takes us nowhere except to establish your affliance in the tribal war, as if that was some kind of precious fucking mystery.

how about you put your money where your mouth is and present a solution instead of repeating talking points like every other "me too" troll.

TheDoc 08-12-2010 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 17409960)
a newsweek opinion piece about how high to tax the rich. amazing.

its truly incredible how unintelligent the rabble have become. They've completely bought into the eat the rich mentality. most likely because a fair self assessment reveals they don't have the intelligence to ever become wealthy themselves.

A person can be wealthy and not qualify for the tax cut. You're not rich enough to qualify for the tax benefit, so I find it funny that you care and that you pretend to be rich.

Bill8 08-12-2010 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 17409391)
Interesting reply on that article about Henry George, and LVT.

(stuff about the old land tax idea)

Interesting concept, but politically impossible without a collapse to precede it and the hanging of the current aristocracy, so for all practical purposes impossible, like most alternative tax models.

politics is the art of the possible, so if you are going to suggest solutions, and you are serious as opposed to just being theoretical, the solutions either have to be incremental and based in an understanding of how our current aristocracy works, or they hav eto sidestep the aristocracy altogether and be aheivable by the people alone.

if you want to assume that the aristocracy is allowed to continue, whatever plan you propose has to be incremental and acceptable to the special interests.

Fenris Wolf 08-12-2010 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17411162)
A person can be wealthy and not qualify for the tax cut. You're not rich enough to qualify for the tax benefit, so I find it funny that you care and that you pretend to be rich.

I don't think it's so much that they pretend to be rich but they care so much because one day they hope to be that rich. They are making decisions based on a possible future for themselves. Whether they actually become part of the top 2% of income generating Americans or not, it doesn't matter. It's a perception of attainable wealth they don't want taxed. And that whole perception is only to get worse. We are creating a whole new generation of Americans, in our youth, who are defining themselves by how much wealth they have or can accumulate.

TheDoc 08-12-2010 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris Wolf (Post 17411262)
I don't think it's so much that they pretend to be rich but they care so much because one day they hope to be that rich. They are making decisions based on a possible future for themselves. Whether they actually become part of the top 2% of income generating Americans or not, it doesn't matter. It's a perception of attainable wealth they don't want taxed. And that whole perception is only to get worse. We are creating a whole new generation of Americans, in our youth, who are defining themselves by how much wealth they have or can accumulate.

Taxes are at the lowest point EVER (other than right when it first started) so for like the last 80 years taxes have never been as low as they are today, on average it's 50% lower today (that's huge). Not in the 80's or the 90's were taxes lower.. and when they rollback the tax cut, taxes are STILL lower than what they were in the 90's.

So basically... they're bitching about all that money they made in the 90's when the tax was 4% higher.

Fenris Wolf 08-12-2010 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17411282)
Taxes are at the lowest point EVER (other than right when it first started) so for like the last 80 years taxes have never been as low as they are today, on average it's 50% lower today (that's huge). Not in the 80's or the 90's were taxes lower.. and when they rollback the tax cut, taxes are STILL lower than what they were in the 90's.

So basically... they're bitching about all that money they made in the 90's when the tax was 4% higher.

I agree. The tax rate from 1993-2000 was 39.6%. The highest ever was from 1951-1963 when it topped off at 91-92%. The highest tax rate for 2010 is 35%. If you file head of household your income needs to be at least $373,651.

Robbie 08-12-2010 04:49 PM

Here's the whole story:

History of the Income Tax in the United States
Source: Tax Foundation.

The nation had few taxes in its early history. From 1791 to 1802, the United States government was supported by internal taxes on distilled spirits, carriages, refined sugar, tobacco and snuff, property sold at auction, corporate bonds, and slaves. The high cost of the War of 1812 brought about the nation's first sales taxes on gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches. In 1817, however, Congress did away with all internal taxes, relying on tariffs on imported goods to provide sufficient funds for running the government.

In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an ?inheritance? tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history?more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911.

The Act of 1862 established the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner was given the power to assess, levy, and collect taxes, and the right to enforce the tax laws through seizure of property and income and through prosecution. The powers and authority remain very much the same today.

In 1868, Congress again focused its taxation efforts on tobacco and distilled spirits and eliminated the income tax in 1872. It had a short-lived revival in 1894 and 1895. In the latter year, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that the income tax was unconstitutional because it was not apportioned among the states in conformity with the Constitution.

In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. The amendment gave Congress legal authority to tax income and resulted in a revenue law that taxed incomes of both individuals and corporations. In fiscal year 1918, annual internal revenue collections for the first time passed the billion-dollar mark, rising to $5.4 billion by 1920. With the advent of World War II, employment increased, as did tax collections?to $7.3 billion. The withholding tax on wages was introduced in 1943 and was instrumental in increasing the number of taxpayers to 60 million and tax collections to $43 billion by 1945.

In 1981, Congress enacted the largest tax cut in U.S. history, approximately $750 billion over six years. The tax reduction, however, was partially offset by two tax acts, in 1982 and 1984, that attempted to raise approximately $265 billion.

On Oct. 22, 1986, President Reagan signed into law the Tax Reform Act of 1986, one of the most far-reaching reforms of the United States tax system since the adoption of the income tax. The top tax rate on individual income was lowered from 50% to 28%, the lowest it had been since 1916. Tax preferences were eliminated to make up most of the revenue. In an attempt to remain revenue neutral, the act called for a $120 billion increase in business taxation and a corresponding decrease in individual taxation over a five-year period.

Following what seemed to be a yearly tradition of new tax acts that began in 1986, the Revenue Reconciliation Act of 1990 was signed into law on Nov. 5, 1990. As with the '87, '88, and '89 acts, the 1990 act, while providing a number of substantive provisions, was small in comparison with the 1986 act. The emphasis of the 1990 act was increased taxes on the wealthy.

On Aug. 10, 1993, President Clinton signed the Revenue Reconciliation Act of 1993 into law. The act's purpose was to reduce by approximately $496 billion the federal deficit that would otherwise accumulate in fiscal years 1994 through 1998. In 1997, Clinton signed another tax act. The act, which cut taxes by $152 billion, included a cut in capital-gains tax for individuals, a $500 per child tax credit, and tax incentives for education.

President George W. Bush signed a series of tax cuts into law. The largest was the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. It was estimated to save taxpayers $1.3 trillion over ten years, making it the third largest tax cut since World War II. The Bush tax cut created a new lowest rate, 10% for the first several thousand dollars earned. It also established a slow schedule of incremental tax cuts that would eventually double the child tax credit from $500 to $1,000, adjust brackets so that middle-income couples owed the same tax as comparable singles, cut the top four tax rates (28% to 25%; 31% to 28%; 36% to 33%; and 39.6% to 35%).

The Jobs and Growth Tax Relief and Reconciliation Act of 2003 accelerated the tax rate cuts that had been enacted in 2001, and temporarily reduced the tax rate on capital gains and dividends to 15%. In 2004, the U.S. was forced to eliminate a corporate tax provision that had been ruled illegal by the World Trade Organization. Along with that tax hike, Congress passed a cornucopia of tax breaks, which for individuals included an option to deduct the payment of whichever state taxes were higher, sales or income taxes.

Two tax bills signed in 2005 and 2006 extended through 2010 the favorable rates on capital gains and dividends that had been enacted in 2003, raised the exemption levels for the Alternative Minimum Tax, and enacted new tax incentives designed to persuade individuals to save more for retirement.

12clicks 08-12-2010 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17411162)
A person can be wealthy and not qualify for the tax cut. You're not rich enough to qualify for the tax benefit, so I find it funny that you care and that you pretend to be rich.

Ahaha, poor little shit stain! You give your burger king salary away by thinking your betters aren't in the top two percent.
How embarrassing for you, little troll.
Oh how pathetic the Obama rabble are

12clicks 08-12-2010 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris Wolf (Post 17411335)
I agree. The tax rate from 1993-2000 was 39.6%. The highest ever was from 1951-1963 when it topped off at 91-92%. The highest tax rate for 2010 is 35%. If you file head of household your income needs to be at least $373,651.

Hahaha, trying out your big boy voice on a topic you know nothing about makes me laugh.
Think about me laughing at you while you're working the day job tomorrow.

TheDoc 08-12-2010 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 17411694)
Ahaha, poor little shit stain! You give your burger king salary away by thinking your betters aren't in the top two percent.
How embarrassing for you, little troll.
Oh how pathetic the Obama rabble are

I feel honored that the king of trolls would call me little troll, no worries big man, even if I tried I couldn't douche it up as much as you have.

I do probably give away a burger king salary worth of taxes each year. I have no problem with that, just another part I'm willing to give to my Country. That doesn't change the fact that your company has never made enough money to put you in the top tax bracket, let alone you pretending you've ever personally made even half that amount each year.

You can stop pretending you've ever done anything... nobody here buys into your b.s. Honestly, it's sad and pathetic to watch broke nobodies pretend they're somebodies, just stop...

12clicks 08-12-2010 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17411763)
I feel honored that the king of trolls would call me little troll, no worries big man, even if I tried I couldn't douche it up as much as you have.

I do probably give away a burger king salary worth of taxes each year. I have no problem with that, just another part I'm willing to give to my Country. That doesn't change the fact that your company has never made enough money to put you in the top tax bracket, let alone you pretending you've ever personally made even half that amount each year.

You can stop pretending you've ever done anything... nobody here buys into your b.s. Honestly, it's sad and pathetic to watch broke nobodies pretend they're somebodies, just stop...

:1orglaugh

tony286 08-12-2010 08:47 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...0081106717.gif

tony286 08-12-2010 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 17409823)
Newsweek = Journo List Member.


'Nuf said? :winkwink:



.

What the list of news people that dont tell me what I want to hear? lol


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