Exactly. All other things being equal, I'll do business with a friend whom I've had good times with over a faceless voice on the phone or text on an icq everytime.

P.S.: But the whore banging, alcoholic, drug-user part ain't bad either :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

EDIT: ONE FIDDY BILLING PROCESSOR GET TOGETHERS KNOWN AS "SHOWS"

Yep, everything passed with flying colors. The very nature of our business makes it possible to do a lot of things. Not only did I work in different locations, but I was there researching marketing for those different areas. :)

only an audit will tell you. Even then its subjective. Depend who actually does the audit and if he is in a good mood that day

I was going to industry shows from the mid 1990's to 2002. In 2002 I sold my content company. And the shows started getting lame because there were too many of them and the sponsors weren't going all out for us affiliates anymore.

I had so much traffic back then that we actually had the sponsors flying into South Carolina (where we had our offices) to see us. lol

So I stopped going from 2002 up until I opened up Claudia-Marie.Com That's when I figured I had a reason to go to the shows again to promote her site.

I was SHOCKED when I saw how small the shows were in 2007 compared to what they used to be.

And now? 2007 shows look GIANT compared to what's left now.

In my humble opinion...One show a year in a locale that kicks ass with all the sponsors involved would indeed bring back affiliates to shows.

But that ain't gonna happen so it's just wishful thinking.

Businesses send marketing people to different areas all the time to research the market in different locales. I needed to research some different areas to find out how to market to them correctly. :)

Woah, relax man.. I have no idea how much it costs to put on an expo but I'm willing to bet that you have no clue either, so maybe you should ease up a little.

I know of at least one expo organizer who had to put up his house as collateral just to guarantee the rooms to a Hotel a few years ago. Talk about dedication...

And so what if the shows want to make money? GOOD! Why do any kind of business if its not to make money?

I have been to at least 15 shows and never for a second did I think that ANY show was CHEAP, or that my comfort and business deal potential wasn't paramount to the organizers. This is especially true of Internext, Qwebec Expo, Cybernet, and even Webmaster Access back in the day. Like I said in another thread, find the organizer(s) of the next show you attend. Follow them around for 30 seconds and tell me that they're not a walking stress case due to all the work, lack of sleep, and tons of worry they take on to their shoulders, just so YOU can have a place to do business.

That is obviously true for smaller shows, not put on by huge companies, such as Qwebec and Cybernet.

However, do you honestly tell me you see Paul Fishbein running around Internext like a chicken without a head? No, who you see doing that are employees /show organizers who are being paid to do that job.

For example, I know Sherri spends a good part of her year organizing CCBill's show, The Phoenix Forum and does it right; you never see her running around (maybe a little) but you damn sure don't see RonC running around freaking out about his show :winkwink:

and i will never forget how Rons parents (RIP) went around in the courtyard and asked almost every participant - no matter if small or big fish - about their opinion on the show. the difference is simply that a show like the Phoenix Forum gives me the feeling to be welcome and the internext gives me the feeling to be just a cashcow. and i can also tell from my experince in dealing with both organizers regarding advertising etc.

if the AVN shows are dying its pure and simple their own fault.

Very true!

I think it's kinda petty that AVN itself doesn't set up a simple free lunch each day for webmasters.
Or at least ONE thing at the show that they are profiting on to give back.

But they don't sponsor anything. If they can't get a program to pay for it, it don't happen.

But they would be surprised. If AVN did a free lunch for webmasters each day...those cheap hot dogs and chicken wings could do wonders for the way they are viewed. :)

I was dissapointed about the size of the show, overall the show was good and I met the people I wanted to meet.

If everyone spend the same energy on rethinking their business as they do on hating other peoples business this business would be booming.

It's not just adapt or die it's innovate or die.

The industry is changing, like always and it's still profitable, sometimes you just gotta work a bit now :-D

Sherri works her butt off at TPF. :2 cents:

:thumbsup

The impression I got was she organizes things very well in advance, is prepared, so doesn't have to run around like crazy and stressed-out like others Mark mentioned - which is a good thing.

I agree 100%, the Phoenix Forum makes me feel like my participation is appreciated, but AVN makes me feel like I'm just a customer.

I love the Phoenix Forum.. so much it's the only show I've been to twice.

If they could only pick the whole thing up and move it the Hedonism Resort in Jamaica...that would be the ultimate! Why the hell don't they have a webmaster show at an all-inclusive adult resort like that?

I've been there so many times and had a blast. All food and drinks are included, tipping isn't allowed, nightclubs and restaurants on premises AND most important the girls can go topless if they want to.

That's the kind of place we should be doing these things at. A fucking tropical paradise with 24 hour food and drink included in the price!

Damn, I started talking about going to Hedonism...went and looked at the Super Clubs website and decided "fuck it" and just booked four days there. Haven't been to Jamaica in 5 years. This will be fun!

Just changed my mind...

Changed my trip from Jamaica to Cancun.

Going to Temptations Resort instead. I can fly CM and I there and have a room all-inclusive 4 days 24 hour liquor and food, no tipping allowed, topless pools

Round trip flight and all inclusive room for both of us for 4 days LESS than 2 grand.

Now why don't the geniuses doing internext move it there?

Robbie not everyone in this biz lives the lifestyle. Forest was trying to explain it to you but you dont seem to get it hehe.

Some of us just sell shit online. That shit just happens to be porn. As I was try to say earlier many of the people in the biz now have grown up and have families. What makes YOU think they want to attent a swinger resort? haha.

I have nothing against what anyone wants to do in thier own time as long as it does not hurt others. However that is YOUR definition of the perfect show. I dont think its the majority of peoples..
Enjoy your weekend

Yeah maybe so. But I'm telling you that back when the shows were wild and crazy...people were "grown up". But even grown ups like to let their hair down every once in a while. And one things for sure: the current shows are not cutting it.

Are you saying you would rather go to a seminar and listen to people spam their shit, then go to a bar and pay $6 for a beer. Then go eat a $20 hamburger. And then realize that there is NO get together that evening and you are going to just be sitting in your $400 a night hotel room.

OR...

Would you rather go to a tropical paradise, all inclusive resort, full of porn girls with their tits out?

I know where I'd go. And maybe you're right...maybe everybody else is too "grown up" for that. But funny...the BIGGEST attended event at both Internext Vegas and XBiz Vegas was The Players Ball. And guess what? It was held in a strip club. An overpriced strip club with $10 beer.

I can't quite grasp what part of my idea you hate. But I personally KNOW most of these motherfuckers at the shows. And they ALL like to drink and they ALL like naked girls. And I've done business with just about all of them while we were partying.

But if you prefer doing it in a "meeting" in a conference room... and paying exorbitant jacked up prices for the privilege....so be it.

EDIT: Text doesn't show my tone of "voice". So I wanted to be clear that when I said "motherfuckers" it was said with love baby!

do you have to buy three seats when you fly? one for you, one for cm, and one for her tits?

damn that woman has some gazongas.

Yes this is a business, but for fucks sake... WE ARE IN PORN! We don't work for Amazon or Google. Our job is to make money while guys beat off.

We should be rocking out with our cocks out, titties flying everywhere, people throwing up in the pool (which is full of naked bitches), and doing what people in porn should be doing.

Have late meetings, late seminars, none of this 9am shit. Make an event that is worth going for no other reason than you don't want to miss all the shenanigans. Business will get done, it always has. But FUN and TITTIES need to be brought back into the business on an epic level. Porn with south when you guys tried to make it too professional. "Oh, I have 4 meetings today" is just pathetic. That's not how real relationships are formed. That's how tight asses try to put on a front that they are professional, when deep down they just want some boobs in their face and a 18 year old Asian hooker slobbin' on their knob. This is PORN god dammit. Minus being a rock star, we're the only group that can get away with it, but instead we have uptight meetings in titty-free zones.

I'm with Robbie. The powers that be need to rope in 1 giant, kick ass, naked bitches, people fucking on the lawn chairs, get in and get down, oiled up titty slip-n-slide, porn gathering. Hedonism would work. Mix it with some giant swingers group.

Some of you uptight people have families and shit and may not like it, and tough shit. You don't have to get your cock sucked or anything, but if you're offended by naked girls running around a porn convention, maybe this business really isn't for you or you should just stay home and watch the seminars via a live broadcast.

This will never happen, but it would revive the shows quite a bit. A big sex / porn event. Open to the public even for a few days of it. It would be epic.

Exactly.

The distinction between pornographer and online marketer needs to be drawn. I am the later, and honestly have no interest in seeing tits and ass and doing the adult party scene. This is a business, and I sell porn as a product, its not a lifestyle for me. Some people live, breathe, worship and just love porn, they love the scene, the people and the whole lifestyle .. all power to them.

From my years in the business I have noticed that the best heads in this industry were the online marketer types and not the pornographers, and I think a big reason adult has stopped innovating and coming up with new stuff is these people have left adult for greener pastures in mainstream. The best minds follow the money.

Nothing wrong with that...Now how many shows have you ever attended? And how many are you going to attend?

And you guys are aware that MAINSTREAM businesses have conventions full of naked bitches, strip clubs, and hookers right? Do all of y'all ever get out much?

Hell ya.

People want to drink, party and fuck. Business will happen along the way.

4 seats. One for me. One for Claudia-Marie. One for her tits. And one for her big round bubble butt.

Online marketers can go to the AVN Miami show every year. Or just meet at a Dennys.

The rest of us will go to Hedonism.

Problem solved.

yeah thats why i go to shows

to see some chick walking around with her tits out.

Like i dont see that anywhere/anytime i want

:thumbsup

The last all inclusive resort tropical island show i went to was the last Island gathering. BEST show IMHO and i dont recall anyone walking around with their tits out.

and BTW 80% of affiliates couldnt go to a show on a tropical all inclusive resort.

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

if I made more money in mainstream I would be doing mainstream.

I happen to make more money with my adult businesses than i do with my mainstream so i focus more of my time on my adult businesses.

Do i miss the old days and crazy parties and loud shows and all that shit. Sure at times i do. Would i trade it for what i have now? No way

Why not? The Costa Rica Bash was awesome and had affiliates in attendance and was at an all-inclusive tropical resort.

I can also think of one very big affiliate of mine who CAN'T come to the U.S. because of visa issues. The last time I saw him was in Amsterdam a couple of years ago. But he could and would go to Mexico no problem.

And in case you didn't notice...99% of affiliates are NOT going to the current shows. And haven't in years.

Just sayin'...the shows are boring. And in response to all this talk about "I'm an online marketer" That's cool. But if you know me and know my history as an affiliate...I think I've sold a few memberships here and there. And when I say as an affiliate that I would like shows to be more affiliate ("online marketer") friendly and fun rather than the current billers on parade sausage fest...then I think it would behoove the show organizers to listen to me.

I will still attend the shows that come to Vegas. But I'm not traveling anymore for the current shows. I'm gonna turn my attention to fan shows. I believe I can make return of investment money on the spot at those shows selling memberships.

And that's a lot better than what I'm hearing everybody else say about these "meetings" that all these "business" decisions are made at....and then everybody goes home and doesn't follow up and no money is made at all.

Holy shit, Robbie! You were at Pacific Beach recently, and didn't contact me? I'm there each and every day I'm not "working" out of town (I hate that pain-in-the-neck drive to/from LA), using starting with breakfast at Kono's (the place near Crystal Pier on Garnet Ave) that usually has a longish line of people waiting to get in; then, I do a brisk walk of 4-7 miles south to the jetty and back (besides doing the www.sdh3.com thing and Pacific Beach route today, I did some exercise-walking around the UCSD area where I live---12 miles total today of brisk walking! Lots of eye candy, especially at the beach. Let me know if you're ever headed this way again--OK?

I am EXTREMELY sorry I didn't contact you Dave. It was a "family" type vacation with my kids so I wasn't even thinking about getting in touch with all the peeps there in our industry. :(

I will definitely get in touch with you next time and we'll have clam chowder and crab legs at the Green Flash oceanside my friend.

EDIT: And why does Konos have that long line anyway? We walked past all those people every morning and went one block over to Dennys for breakfast! lol

I have only ever seen one case where a bikini model was used to push a product at a mainstream convention.

But thats not really the point, and I generally don't see the need for people to attend conventions if its not for business reasons. I believe its healthy to have a personal and social life outside of your work, and for that reason I keep the two very seperate. I can finish work, and switch off. People who use industry conventions to let off steam are obviously lacking a social life that fills those needs, and yes I am referring to both mainstream and adult.

Funny, 2 of the sponsors i had "meetings" with to discuss "business" with on friday have already gotten more joins in the lat 2 day then the avg aff sends them in a week.

again shows may be boring to YOU. To ME they are all about one thing and one thing ONLY making me more money and I dont need hookers or titties or "bros" to do that

I wasn't referring to the convention show floor of a mainstream convention. I'm referring to what they do after 5 p.m. at their parties. You should come to vegas and pick any one of the conventions in town on any given day and we'll go crash it. lol

And I have to tell you...I personally DO enjoy hanging with my peers and being able to talk shop. It's fun to drink with them. And make our evil plans to get drunk and get laid for the night (whether they come true is another matter)

Are you seriously saying that businessmen all over the world don't do deals in strip clubs? And are you seriously saying that major debauchery doesn't go on here in Vegas at every convention in town?

OK. But back to what you're saying...my social life is good. I go out every week and have a good time with friends. And yet, I still do TONS of business at the shows during parties.

The last REALLY good ROI I had off a show was Amsterdam in 2008. I didn't attend even ONE "seminar" or ONE official function.

But what I did do, was attend three dinners on three nights. And after dinner, the program owners that were at those dinners wanted to...you guessed it...PARTY.

And that we did! Hookers, drugs, drinking, fucking and sleeping in late the next day while many "online marketers" were sitting in "workshops" and "seminars" at 10 in the freakin' morning! lol

I am STILL making money from the relationships I forged getting fucked up with the real power players who were there. I'd guess conservatively that one show has made me more than 2 million dollars and growing.

Meanwhile, the "online marketers" were in seminars listening to affiliate reps give spam speeches.

Tell me something...IF you attended the AVN show and you are an affiliate...what exactly would you do there? What "business" would you conduct? And where would you conduct it?

I'm being serious. I'm telling you that I've made money by partying and hanging with the people that mattered at the shows. Please explain to me why I'm doing it wrong.

And then tell me why every other business in this world is conducted the same way at conventions. Yeah, they do the "seminars" and "workshops". That's called a "cover story" for the REAL convention...which consists of strippers, drugs, and hookers. :1orglaugh

And that's just the convention for the Baptist Church. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

You can only imagine what happens at car dealership conventions...no I don't have to imagine it. My youngest brother is in the car business. He tells me. It makes porn conventions look like a boyscout meeting. lol

how much was the costa rica show including airfare?

how much do you think the avg aff in todays market makes per year?

Name names. Which sponsors? And how exactly do you get "joins"? Don't answer...I think we all know the answer to that one.

As an affiliate I can NEVER give people "joins". I can only promote their sites. To be able to give "joins" you have to be x-selling the join. And yes, that is indeed "business". I have nothing against that at all.

But was a convention necessary for that kind of "business"? And why would a REAL affiliate want to be in that environment? How about giving us a reason to be there?

The Costa Rica show was THE most inexpensive show I've ever attended.

The airfare was no more than what somebody on the west coast would pay to fly to Miami.
And then the ENTIRE SHOW WAS FREE! That's what I said: FREE. All you had to do was fly there. After that the show provided your room, food, drinks. They even bused in a dozen prostitutes for the entire show.

And the entire thing was oceanfront with a complete take-over of the resort by the sponsors.

You really are wrong about this particular subject my friend.

why do you insist on making such general statements. as a marketer i have attended a total or TWO seminars in the 10 years i have been going to shows. and BOTH of them i have paneled on. One of them was actually MY seminar. so your general statement is lacking knowledge.

also I attended the AVN show for 1 day in Vegas and 1 day in Florida. the profit from my one day in vegas has been 5 figures so far this year. profit from my one day in florida will be just fine if ratios hold. If the deals i made this year pan out like last years deals ill be very very happy

I went to the first Costa Rica show and it was dirt cheap. I screwed up my plane tickets and needed to buy a passport, and it was still dirt cheap.

show me where i made a statement about the cost of the bash to be wrong about. I didnt, you make an assumption

so the hotel rooms were free?

and when was the last time they had the bash?

What do you do in this biz if you don't mind me asking? I hate being ignorant of who I'm talking to. :)

ok so why are the not continuing the show?

where are all the sponsors willing to pony up dollars to party with the affiliate

I won't argue with any of that, hell getting 'fucked up' with folk can be a great way to open doors as you say. You have a lifestyle that you enjoy, and it apparently works for you ... thats great :)

I was just trying to point out that not all of us are like that and was just attempting to explain where I and probably many others come from.

I have no clue. I'm simply saying it was dirt cheap. :-)

Under $1000 for two people, a lot of fun too. I think the chicken and egg effect comes into play.

no problem

i rep several whales and broker their joins to various programs

I own a merchant acquisition company helping programs acquire mids and off shore corps

i own a small design company

i am a partner in a private invite only program

thats cheap. that was Varius' show right? always did want to attend one

You insinuated that affiliates couldn't afford it. And I'm saying the Bash had ZERO cost except airfare which was no more than going anywhere here in the states.

And yes, the sponsors paid for EVERYTHING.

The last bash was sadly 2008. Keith who posts here as "Varius" can explain that in better detail.

But you're still missing my entire point.

Why not do this at an all-inclusive resort?
Like I said earlier...I just found round trip tickets from Vegas to Cancun for $409 And all inclusive rooms at the resort for 2 people for 4 days were a little over $600
So for me and Claudia-Marie to go there for four days, eat at nice restaurants, drink as much of anything we want, have topless pools, and a gorgeous beach...costs under 2 grand. No more expense at all. They even have complimentary transportation buses from the freakin' airport. They don't accept tips. Jesus Christ...

Dude, no matter how you want to argue it...that is CHEAPER and funner than the Miami show. Why not HAVE that same AVN show in Cancun at an all-inclusive resort so we can all afford it and have a good time and do good business?

Where am I wrong with that? Or are you just in the mood to argue with me?

The first WA was like that, Cancun. I don't remember how much exactly I spent, but again, it wasn't much. I'm thinking around $2k for two people and again, it was a lot of fun. Made some good contacts, too. There were a few organized events each night, but I can't remember if there were seminars or anything like that, I really don't think so. It was almost like a meet and greet on the beach.