Selling Glass pipes online, anyone look into it?

[Vendzilla]

I know that Tommy Chong got 9 months for it, but I can't find where he actually broke the law. At least where it made sence. What's illegal about selling glass pipe , water pipes and such online, is it state specific? Is it a federal thing?
The reason I ask is I'm building an online store and some glass sex toy people asked me about it, could be a huge seller, giving all the hype right now about legalizing marijuana.
I have some nice glass myself, I have probably the biggest bubbler anyone has ever seen.

I see glass pipe sites that ship online, but that doesn't mean it's legal, so has anyone looked into this, before I sell anything, I will get my lawyer to look up everything.

[Amputate Your Head]

I know that Tommy Chong got 9 months for it, but I can't find where he actually broke the law. At least where it made sence. What's illegal about selling glass pipe , water pipes and such online, is it state specific? Is it a federal thing?
The reason I ask is I'm building an online store and some glass sex toy people asked me about it, could be a huge seller, giving all the hype right now about legalizing marijuana.
I have some nice glass myself, I have probably the biggest bubbler anyone has ever seen.

I see glass pipe sites that ship online, but that doesn't mean it's legal, so has anyone looked into this, before I sell anything, I will get my lawyer to look up everything.

Tommy wasn't even selling them, they just were using his name for marketing. They got popped because they sold to undercover (after being begged and hounded by them) and shipped one to Pennsylvania, where apparently owning a piece of glass is a crime. I still believe the whole thing was entrapment, but Tommy just plain got fucked. He was scapegoated for it because they were using his name.

Definitely be careful. It's not just where you operate, but also where you sell and ship.

[stickyfingerz]

I've been looking for a white label to take that risk / opportunity for like 3 months now. So far no luck. Im like you don't want to risk breaking any laws on it, so let someone else take that risk lol.

[Vendzilla]

Tommy wasn't even selling them, they just were using his name for marketing. They got popped because they sold to undercover (after being begged and hounded by them) and shipped one to Pennsylvania, where apparently owning a piece of glass is a crime. I still believe the whole thing was entrapment, but Tommy just plain got fucked. He was scapegoated for it because they were using his name.

Definitely be careful. It's not just where you operate, but also where you sell and ship.

Yeah I saw the special about Tommy, was pretty fucked up to do that to him.
So it was just that one state, My sister lives there
Is there a list of states somewhere where it's illegal?

[Vendzilla]

I've been looking for a white label to take that risk / opportunity for like 3 months now. So far no luck. Im like you don't want to risk breaking any laws on it, so let someone else take that risk lol.

when this online store is done, I plan on having it hooked up for affiliates, but not white label, it wouldn't make sense because of the branding. I'm just looking at adding more glass products. If I can get a list to sell them to states that are legal, then I'll move forward with it.

[ThunderBalls]

Unless you are going to sell kick ass bongs people in mmj states could give a fuck about glass pipes, they are everywhere and some dispensaries give them away free.

[Amputate Your Head]

agreed... your bongs and pipes better be on par with Molino, Ehle and Roor, or no one is going to care. I only order Roor bongs and parts... cuz I'm picky.

[fatfoo]

Products are shipped over water by ship. Internet provides worldwide communication.

[LeRoy]

Shipping glass eeech. Be careful with that.

[Vendzilla]

Unless you are going to sell kick ass bongs people in mmj states could give a fuck about glass pipes, they are everywhere and some dispensaries give them away free.

I think we'll do pretty good, most outlets jack up the prices 300%. I'm going to be getting them straight from the manufacturer and will very competative. Also there will be the branding

agreed... your bongs and pipes better be on par with Molino, Ehle and Roor, or no one is going to care. I only order Roor bongs and parts... cuz I'm picky.

OK, You and I are going to have to get together, I'll have to drive out to the bay area and bring my bubbler

Shipping glass eeech. Be careful with that.

They have been shipping glass for a long time, it's all about the packaging

[chronig]

Products are shipped over water by ship. Internet provides worldwide communication.

...

[Stephen]

The problem with this is not just what you do, but what your affiliate does (like where those pipes are being marketed). There are local issues too that can easily slip off your radar -- Redding for example won't allow glass pipe sales at dispensaries, and many communities even within California take a dim view on them cuz of tweakers...

[Oracle Porn]

people are spending $1000's of glass bong online, gotta know the market to be able to sell for those prices and know the guys making them to get the best deals/products. but there's lots of money in it for sure.

[Stephen]

As a side note to Tommy Chong, the same attorney that nailed him is the one that got Rob Black

[LeRoy]

Yah I guess good bubble wrap and you're safe.

[Badmaash]

Yah I guess good bubble wrap and you're safe.

Lol! - yah that will work....

[Quentin]

The section of code you are looking for is 21 USC Sec. 863.

A key snippet:

(a) In general
It is unlawful for any person -

(1) to sell or offer for sale drug paraphernalia;
(2) to use the mails or any other facility of interstate commerce to transport drug paraphernalia; or
(3) to import or export drug paraphernalia.

And here's the relevant statutory definition of "paraphernalia:"

The term ''drug paraphernalia'' means any equipment, product, or material of any kind which is primarily intended or designed for use in manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing, producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter. It includes items primarily intended or designed for use in ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana, cocaine, hashish, hashish oil, PCP, methamphetamine, or amphetamines into the human body, such as:

(1) metal, wooden, acrylic, glass, stone, plastic, or ceramic pipes with or without screens, permanent screens, hashish heads, or punctured metal bowls;
(2) water pipes;
(3) carburetion tubes and devices;
(4) smoking and carburetion masks;
(5) roach clips: meaning objects used to hold burning material, such as a marihuana cigarette, that has become too small or too short to be held in the hand;
(6) miniature spoons with level capacities of one-tenth cubic centimeter or less;
(7) chamber pipes;
(8) carburetor pipes;
(9) electric pipes;
(10) air-driven pipes;
(11) chillums;
(12) bongs;
(13) ice pipes or chillers;
(14) wired cigarette papers; or
(15) cocaine freebase kits.

There are other bits of the statute that get into "matters considered in determination of what constitutes drug paraphernalia" and certain exemptions, as well.

(f) Exemptions
This section shall not apply to -

(1) any person authorized by local, State, or Federal law to manufacture, possess, or distribute such items; or

(2) any item that, in the normal lawful course of business, is imported, exported, transported, or sold through the mail or by any other means, and traditionally intended for use with tobacco products, including any pipe, paper, or accessory.

[BFT3K]

Lots for sale through this site, posted a few days ago, right here on GFY.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.31840

I wonder if it is legal to buy through them, or for them to ship to you?....

[Amputate Your Head]

There are other bits of the statute that get into "matters considered in determination of what constitutes drug paraphernalia" and certain exemptions, as well.

The interesting thing to me is, how do they determine what is actually "drug" paraphernalia versus what can legitimately have other uses. For example, a bong can be used for smoking many things... not just "drugs". And a simple apple (fruit, not the company), can be used for smoking weed. So can empty Pepsi cans... is Pepsi paraphernalia? Syringes can be used to help & heal as well as shoot junk... so are needles evil or what? I use a miniature spoon to measure and take heartburn remedy... paraphernalia?

[Quentin]

The interesting thing to me is, how do they determine what is actually "drug" paraphernalia versus what can legitimately have other uses. For example, a bong can be used for smoking many things... not just "drugs". And a simple apple (fruit, not the company), can be used for smoking weed. So can empty Pepsi cans... is Pepsi paraphernalia? Syringes can be used to help & heal as well as shoot junk... so are needles evil or what? I use a miniature spoon to measure and take heartburn remedy... paraphernalia?

That's where the "tobacco products" work-around comes in; there are exceptions for other potential legal uses, too, but the possibility is always there that you have to defend your "use case" in court.

If it comes to that, then the court goes by criteria listed in the same portion of the Controlled Substances Act that covers the definition and penalties for paraphernalia related offenses:

(e) Matters considered in determination of what constitutes drug paraphernalia
In determining whether an item constitutes drug paraphernalia, in addition to all other logically relevant factors, the following may be considered:
(1) instructions, oral or written, provided with the item concerning its use;
(2) descriptive materials accompanying the item which explain or depict its use;
(3) national and local advertising concerning its use;
(4) the manner in which the item is displayed for sale;
(5) whether the owner, or anyone in control of the item, is a legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community, such as a licensed distributor or dealer of tobacco products;
(6) direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the item(s) to the total sales of the business enterprise;
(7) the existence and scope of legitimate uses of the item in the community; and
(8) expert testimony concerning its use.

[cherrylula]

When you buy a vaporizer online, they send you this attachment and some aromatherapy herbs so it is an aromatherapy product. But you can no doubt make some dough selling pipes. I'd focus on local store to store stuff though, you never know what kind of crap they can throw at you when you sell online. Too many variables and unknowns.

plus if you're in Cali, do you really need anywhere else in the world for customers? LOL

[ottopottomouse]

The interesting thing to me is, how do they determine what is actually "drug" paraphernalia versus what can legitimately have other uses. For example, a bong can be used for smoking many things... not just "drugs". And a simple apple (fruit, not the company), can be used for smoking weed. So can empty Pepsi cans... is Pepsi paraphernalia? Syringes can be used to help & heal as well as shoot junk... so are needles evil or what? I use a miniature spoon to measure and take heartburn remedy... paraphernalia?

I think it's this bit that is important with that

It includes items primarily intended or designed for use in ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana, cocaine, hashish, hashish oil, PCP, methamphetamine, or amphetamines into the human body

[Vendzilla]

The interesting thing to me is, how do they determine what is actually "drug" paraphernalia versus what can legitimately have other uses. For example, a bong can be used for smoking many things... not just "drugs". And a simple apple (fruit, not the company), can be used for smoking weed. So can empty Pepsi cans... is Pepsi paraphernalia? Syringes can be used to help & heal as well as shoot junk... so are needles evil or what? I use a miniature spoon to measure and take heartburn remedy... paraphernalia?

What the head shop have had to do for years if someone says the word Bong, they have to leave, because they don't sell bongs, they sell tabacco smoking water pipes.

Don't know it's still there, but was the oldest head shop in the US was in Van Nuys California and it was called Heads And Highs, the court made them change the name to H and H, that place was cool if you knew the owner or the staff, they had a second room where they would have after hour parties with local bands

[ottopottomouse]

(f) Exemptions
This section shall not apply to -

(1) any person authorized by local, State, or Federal law to manufacture, possess, or distribute such items; or

(2) any item that, in the normal lawful course of business, is imported, exported, transported, or sold through the mail or by any other means, and traditionally intended for use with tobacco products, including any pipe, paper, or accessory.

Can you use exemption (1) and have the manufacturer do the distribution?

[Amputate Your Head]

It includes items primarily intended or designed for use in ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana, cocaine, hashish, hashish oil, PCP, methamphetamine, or amphetamines into the human body

Hmmm.... so, as long as you're making something with legal intent you're okay? I wonder what you need to CYA in that regard... maybe just some sort of mission statement or policy or something like most use in conjunction with a solid disclaimer about specifically being for tobacco use or whatever, and a notice that using [it] for illegal drugs is, well, illegal.

?

[Vendzilla]

When you buy a vaporizer online, they send you this attachment and some aromatherapy herbs so it is an aromatherapy product. But you can no doubt make some dough selling pipes. I'd focus on local store to store stuff though, you never know what kind of crap they can throw at you when you sell online. Too many variables and unknowns.

plus if you're in Cali, do you really need anywhere else in the world for customers? LOL

Since we are going to Brand these pipes, would say selling to vendors is something I need to address. Give a wholesale price.

[Vendzilla]

Can you use exemption (1) and have the manufacturer do the distribution?

I probably could

Hmmm.... so, as long as you're making something with legal intent you're okay? I wonder what you need to CYA in that regard... maybe just some sort of mission statement or policy or something like most use in conjunction with a solid disclaimer about specifically being for tobacco use or whatever, and a notice that using [it] for illegal drugs is, well, illegal.

?

Dude, be careful, you're sounding like congress

[Amputate Your Head]

Honestly Vend, I'd love to break into that biz too... and California is a great place for it.... it just seems too risky to me. You know as soon as you open shop, all eyes will be upon you. And some that you may not want looking... like the DEA.

[ShellyCrash]

If you are working with a glass blower and are looking to expand past glass sex toys and pipes maybe look into doing gauged earrings:



Prices range based on the piece and complexity. I know I drop like $60 - 70 bucks on a good set of glass like the one pictured.

Its safe, legal & there's a market.

[Vendzilla]

Honestly Vend, I'd love to break into that biz too... and California is a great place for it.... it just seems too risky to me. You know as soon as you open shop, all eyes will be upon you. And some that you may not want looking... like the DEA.

Going to talk about this with my partner, if we can get the wholesaler to ship with our branding, it would benifit both of us.
I would love to design some water pipes and sex toys, call it the Vendzilla Line, LMAO

[Vendzilla]

If you are working with a glass blower and are looking to expand past glass sex toys and pipes maybe look into doing gauged earrings:



Prices range based on the piece and complexity. I know I drop like $60 - 70 bucks on a good set of glass like the one pictured.

Its safe, legal & there's a market.

the shop we have in mind would be selling a lot of main stream goods online. Put our branding on it and go from there. Briana is a model for a big clothing company and we're going to talk to them as well. Jewelery would fit with that really good, thanx. Hit me up if you see the earrings on the site some day that you want, I'll send you a pair

[Amputate Your Head]

How hard can it be to become an expert glass-blower? I can probably pick up a couple books on it and learn over the weekend. Then we could team up and brand that shit any way you want.

[Oracle Porn]

Lots for sale through this site, posted a few days ago, right here on GFY.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.31840

I wonder if it is legal to buy through them, or for them to ship to you?....

those cost $12-$17 around here

[Vendzilla]

How hard can it be to become an expert glass-blower? I can probably pick up a couple books on it and learn over the weekend. Then we could team up and brand that shit any way you want.

I was into welding, so I already had the torches. So I got some glass tubes and rods and rigged up some copper tubes and had some fun for a couple weeks. It's truely an artist that does it right, but for a little hobby, it was fun for about two weeks

[Amputate Your Head]

oops.. wrong pic

[Amputate Your Head]

Here is a $3700 dollar Roor custom:


[LINKHOTTEN]

EDIT

[woj]

no risk, no reward
obviously there is a reason why there is 1000% markup on that stuff

[Ron Bennett]

Where the seller is physically located and, very importantly, where the buyer is located matters.

Read up on Operation Pipe Dreams. Ie. Avoid selling such products to people seeking to order from western Pennsylvania, as well as various other numerous locations. Many adult sites utilize location blocklists (usually as a list of zipcodes to avoid) - using those same lists may be worthwhile, at least to start out, despite selling a very different product.

Ron

[cherrylula]

Since we are going to Brand these pipes, would say selling to vendors is something I need to address. Give a wholesale price.

you just need brochure, maybe free samples, and drop them off at the dispensaries and clinics. If you are manufacturing and live in LA I'd scrap the internet sales altogether. Word of mouth is way better, people spend way more money on those items in head shops than they ever would online. Design a nice display and packaging for the shops, its the little silly things that will move a product like that. Yeah, creative hard branding is good with stoners.

plus there is a huge boom of cannabis publications right now in LA. Put some ads in there, mention where to buy your product and make a deal with the shops you're selling to equals success.

[Stephen]

How hard can it be to become an expert glass-blower?

Oaksterdam offers a course at its Oakland campus

[Amputate Your Head]

These Roors must be made by a machine or something somehow... they are too perfect in every way. How would a human be able to hand-make something so precise like the laboratory glass they're selling?

[LickMyBalls]

The Ice/Meth pipes you want to sell, and help kill people, can be found at any local mom and pop convenience store. Just ask for the "incense burners" behind the counter.

[Tanker]

nice I need to do something with WeAreStoner.com hit me up

[brassmonkey]

man did that little flower in a crack pipe give you the idea there just dildo's with 2 holes just kidding man was funny i almost fell out of my seat!