any writers here?

Not yet. Working on a new book though. A while back i did right a few novels just never sent them off to an agent looking for representation.

Have you done short stories or anything small or going straight for novels?

Do you need an agent in todays market?

What about self publishing?

Kane has something in the works.

You could self publish but that would not be too cheap. If no one picks up this book I may publish it myself for kindle, ipad, etc. Only done novels so far.

yup




.

I wrote a tech book published by Sybex on Linux, Apache, MySQL, and PHP...

Hit top the top 10 tech books on Amazon when it came out :D Been a while now though :P

queue kane and a 500 word reply in 3..2...

self publishing doesn't cost anything anymore. some people making more money from that than traditional publishers, who are kind of hurting right now anyway unless you are in oprah's book club.

http://bestdamncreativewritingblog.c...nd-the-kindle/

heh writers always have something in the works.

I started writing at 15 or so and have boxes and boxes of notebooks filled from front to back, but Ive started to take it more serious over the past few years and thinking about pushing even harder on it. Took a year off from work when I moved to new orleans and filled more than 3 notebooks, and have been working on a few stories lately.

im totally ignorant about agents and the business i guess. I just like writing.

Congrats, howd you go about getting them to publish you, if you don't mind me asking?

I was approached by an acquisitions editor from Sybex for some of the work I had done and my involvement in the PHP community. I was actually just contracted to write the book rather than writing it and then pitching it...

I will say one thing, the writing is the quick and easy part. The editing is BRUTAL... After you've written each chapter the chapter goes to the acquisition editor to edit for flow and style. Then it comes back and you make or don't make recommended changes. Then it goes to a technical editor who reads it for correctness... then it comes back... then it goes to the grammatical editor... then comes back with recommended changes... then it goes BACK to the tech editor to make sure nothing got out of sync during the last editing phase. Then it goes to the layout editor who prepares the final PDF and comes back for final approval...

By the time you're on Chapter 6 you've got chapters in every stage of the editing process coming back. I think it took me a total of a month to write the thing and at least two months in editing... brutal process, hahahaha.

I finally finished the book I've been working on for years and years...the problem with it was as soon as I think I was finished, I would have more to add...it's about dealing with my son's Selective Mutism and is a combination journal/advice book. I recently added a bunch of his school journals and some of his writings I didn't know about until earlier this year.

I should add...I'm thinking of going the self publishing route with it

very nice.

LOL, was this around 1999-2000? I got an e-mail from someone (don't remember if it was them) to write on that same topic. Told 'em I was too busy with Google and sent them packing. Was it a mistake for me to do?

I've published a bunch of stuff. For about 4 years I made my living writing for a music magazine. I have sold a handful of short stories and a screenplay. I finished a book that is with the publisher now, just waiting on them to decide on a publication date and marketing campaign.

Were you looking for advice on how to get an agent/publisher?


Woot! less than 500 words even.

Hahah this was actually in 2004 :P Popular subject to write on during the times though. I have half of another book written but I doubt I'll ever get around to finishing it. It's a book on Enterprise level PHP development and best practices... I'm just too busy "doing" at the moment to even think about picking up those reigns again :P

Thanks for your reply. And congrats, I admire people who do things like writing and art, despite it not paying the bills most of the time.

I appreciate any advice someone who has been published can give me, yes.

I've never written with the goal of being published or paid, as I've mentioned, I just fill up notebooks. I have done so for most of my life. But over the past few years I have thought about trying to get things published vs self publish etc... not even sure how agents work with writing. Do they get a cut or do you pay them up front?

Whether it was poetry, short stories, or songs - I just like to write. As I look over at boxes of notebooks, it only makes sense to try and get others to read some of it and publish some of the words Ive written before I die. Everytime I try to find places to submit short stories to I get frustrated LOL

As I have gotten older I am much more focused now, so to sum it up, sure, I'd appreciate any advice you have for someone like me... I do not write with the intent of becoming the next Stephen King, I just like putting words together and invoking emotion and using my wild life as a means to relate my experience on this planet to other lost souls via sentences.

Reading and writing is just what I like to do, I dont care if it ever pays the bills.

Really?

I wrote some short stories as a kid that are decent. Somewhere along the way though, I lost the desire to write.

What does everyone use to write in? I use Scrivener.

MS Word... because it's industry standard and the track changes is INVALUABLE for all the editing... all the editors get different colors and you just approve or delete the changes... pretty damn handy.

only fappers

Cool, I can export from Scrivener to MS Word when I am finished on a project. 4.5 mice from MacWorld http://www.macworld.com/reviews/prod...ml?expand=true

just messin withcha btw, sometimes i wish i had as much to say as you do.

you do write well.

that's all i have to say.

Okay, here is where the long reply comes in

I guess my advice would be to first choose a direction. I really don't know much about poetry or songwriting markets. Short stories are kind of a hit and miss kind of thing depending on what genre you write in. More and more it is harder to sell short stories. Magazines are having such a hard time competing with online stuff that they often now only feature short stories by known authors. That isn't to say you still can't publish with a smaller magazine and there is nothing wrong with writing a short story just to get it out of your system. Because of this, I personally would choose to write a book, but if you know about these other markets you might move in that direction.

Once you have chosen a direction I would suggest finding something from your work and focusing hard on it. If you have a ton of notebooks you probably have a lot of ideas. some of those will be better than others. I would pick something you feel passionate about and that you think other people will find interesting. Ignore everything else you are writing and just focus on finishing that one piece. Once you are done, put it in a drawer for at least a few weeks and get some distance from it then go back and read it with a very critical eye and make changes. Rewrite it at least a few times and make it as good as you possibly can. If you have friends who you know will be 100% honest with you and not just tell you what they think you want to hear let them read it and take their feedback to heart.

Eventually, you will have a finished product. If it is fiction, I would suggest now trying to get an agent. There are some great books you can buy that will help you with this. Do a search for "literary agents" in amazon and you will see them. These books will give you some good ideas on how to approach and agent and some of them even give a good listing of agencies and tell you what they are looking for. Another route is to go to writers workshops in your area and have people there read your work. You never know who you are going to meet there and who they might know. I have heard a lot of stories of people getting agents this way.

When you do submit to an agent and they reject you (and this will happen) take their criticism to heart. It isn't personal. If they give you some kind of advice really listen to them and see if you can apply it to your work. If you have 10 different agents reject you and tell you that your book needs to be edited, maybe you need to find a freelance editor to help you. If you have 10 agents all tell you that your ending sucks, maybe it does. You may choose to keep it, if you strongly believe in it, but maybe it is worth looking into.

The most important thing you can do when trying to get an agent is try to stand out and then deliver. What I mean is you need to write a cover letter that makes it seem like your book is the next big thing. Your book is the best thing they will read all year. Then you have to deliver. If you hype yourself up, then the first 10 pages of your book is boring as hell and filled with typos, they are going to shrug you off. Don't write your letter by saying: My book is the next big thing. Everyone does that. Come up with a 1 paragraph summery that blows them away. Imagine it like it was written on the back of the book. If you picked a book up and this is the summery printed on the back, you would buy the book.

Another thing about agents. You will find some agents wanting to charge a fee to read your book. I personally would avoid them. If they are real agents they are looking for clients to represent who have books they think they can sell. They are interested in finding long term clients, not just making a few dollars from a reading fee. So I would steer clear of them. Also, some of them will offer to edit the book for you for a fee. These can be legit services, but can also be expensive. I would steer clear of those too. If you think you need an editor I would try to find a local writers workshop and see if anyone there has suggestions on people they have used. Many of these editing companies agents will suggest are actually owned by the agency. They don't really care about improving your book so much as they do cashing your check.

Anyway, I'm taking up way too much space here

In summery.
1. finish the book and make it as good as you possibly can.
2. get feedback if possible.
3. use resource books and other people to locate agents.
4. listen to agents when they reject you.
5. try to stick with agents that don't want to charge you anything an who seem to have your best interests in mind.
6. have fun.

Hope this helps some.

LOL.
I more than made up for in my previous post

i knew i should of waited a bit longer!

Good stuff. If you ever have occasion to work with them, O'Reilly has been amazing as a publisher. I'd write for them again in a heartbeat.

Yeah, back in grad school, one of my notes got published in an academic journal. Focused on the topic of how culture mutates way faster than any legal definition or legal scheme to "protect" it.

See, this is what is frustrating... take Cormac Mccarthy for example. Love his novel, Outer Dark, the guy refuses to even use quotation marks in dialogue, and his novel The Road was made into motion picture film yet somehow we have to jump through hoops for agents/editors, change an ending if an agent say it sucks etc... it all just seems so controlling, when in fact its art... yet some refuse to even use quotation marks and end up doing very well. I can only imagine the editor shaking his head...

about to re-read your long reply but thats the first thing that came to mind hearing about an gent telling me to change an ending LOL.

I don't know anything about any market, I just mentioned poetry and songs to illustrate that I just like to write. I've scribbled poems on bar napkins a decade ago and still have them in a box, have hung out with friends and wrote song lyrics, etc.... just showcasing my desire to create with words. But lately I have begun focusing on a few stories with the idea of progressing to a novel perhaps. I figured I would start with short stories and move my way up to a book, it seemed the logical approach. I have never written a book, only small pieces. Always figured I could piece them together if need be and get started on something bigger, create story arcs to combine them etc....

So now as I age, and become more focused on my work, yes... I should pick a direction and go with it. That's the point I feel I have been at lately...

Gotcha. Sounds like great advice. I appreciate such an in depth reply. gracias again mi amigo.

I will take in all your advice on agents, but not retort to any of it at this time.

Im stuck on #6 all the time LOL I just write to write, never even thought about an agent until this thread LOL

Just like me. I mean I like writing too. Shorrt stories things. Man, I can tell you, there is a connection between banner work and short stories, you dont make em for too long and can see results daily.

It may seem controlling to you but ask yourself this - when looking for an agent are you just looking for verification that you can write or are you looking for someone to represent you in selling the book? Bottom line, it is still a dollar and cents business and if their suggestions may make more money is that so bad?

I understand totally.

Not going to argue about artistic control when it comes to business (dollars and cents) but so you change the ending, is that going to automatically make you rich? The agent says "nah dont make it happy ending, blow the car up and fade to black."

Something tells me, no. Its just how the agent wanted it to end LOL Id love to hear what people like Steephen King etc feel about having an agent tell them change an ending... but hey, maybe he changes endings all the time when agent cracks whip on him, I dont know LOL

If I was at that point and agent was serious, id consider it I guess,... this is all hypothetical at this moment.

You could always try it and see how you think it is their way and if you do not like it let them know that does not work for you. maybe you just need to retool your ending to make it better and can run with that.

I'd change the ending if it meant the book would be better. Otherwise, no way. Back when I used to write fiction, I already had the whole story planned and panned out ahead of time. Any alteration to the planning meant I had fucked up the planning stage and I'd beat myself up for it. I think of a novel like I think of a great movie script. It was on the drawing board for ever to manage to get to where it is as far as quality goes. Changing it during production is a baaaaad idea, because the change will probably stick out like sore thumb.

Tony Lovett, AVN's publisher wrote a new book last year:

http://www.amazon.com/L-Bizarro-All-...ref=pd_sim_b_1

I plan to read this week

my girl is a writer. she's been published twice now. i'm trying to write a book, non-fiction. loosely based on my life from high school till now

i use WriteRoom for software. it's super stripped down, but makes it much easier to not be distracted. Love the green font. for real.

well this is why i said its all hypothetical right now, as it is right now, if i was in the position of being told to change something perhaps that would mean I was actually getting published, so discussing what we would change and if we would change something is purely hypothetical right now.

No artist, whether its writer or singer wants to be told to change their work, so thats a given. if in the position and felt it would make the book better, sure, but lets *get there* first hehe

Bukowski started writing poetry at 35, this is my daily inspiration to pick up a pen and write 2000 words a day. Ive hit 34 this month and the pen is calling me every day, its my sword. Few people my age can say they took a year off and just wrote, I plan on making writing one of the most important things of my life from now until im in the coffin.

Id like to thank everyone for replies in here btw, I may go on a hiatus soon and just poor my thoughts and efforts into my writing. But I think this thread may have been what I needed to help me focus. ive been writing more lately, and trying to focus on a few pieces and after reading this thread over again, I think I will focus even more. Stop wasting my time doing unnecessary things and really focus.

I wont go into life details but becoming a father this past year has really got me thinking about life and death more and I feel there are many things I would like to write and get out my system before I die... its just something I am compelled to do.

Having gone sober has left me with more time and energy to focus on the thingsa I want to do instead of being drunk by 9 am in the morning, and I think its far past time to focus and get on what Id like to do.

Thanks again for the encouragement and direction.

Your friend,
Fletch

the unabomber had reams of shit he wrote over the years and he was published.

Something you might consider is doing as you say and starting with a short story or two. Write them, rewrite them, make them as good as you can make them and then submit them to a few places. Even if they are very small non-pay places like websites and independent fanzines. At the least you will get some feedback on your work and it could give that sense of satisfaction on completing a piece and seeing it through to the end that could carry you into a book.

Make no mistake, writing a book is hard. I started mine out thinking it would be just like a long short story. I ended up stopping halfway through and redoing all my notes and my outline just to get everything organized. It is hard, but I enjoyed doing it and finding the fun and enjoyment in can be the hard part.

If you are having trouble organizing you might try www.evernote.com it is free and kicks ass. It is a very easy to use note taking software.

I think when you get to the level of King and Cormac McCarthy you can do whatever you want because you have a built in fan base that is going to buy your books no matter what they are.

As for changing endings, I have never been asked to do that. My agent thought the ending to my book was spot on. It isn't happy, nor is it sad, it find a spot right in the middle and works.

If they told me, change the ending and we will guarantee you a first print run of 500K books and a million dollar publicity campaign or leave it as it is and we will do a first print run of 25K books and a 40K publicity campaign I would probably change it. Selling books at the start of your career can open up a lot doors and let you do what you want down the road.

There is a famous story about Stephen King where his publisher demanded he send them an outline for his new book before he went on vacation. He sent them a 6 page outline. Each page had one word on it. It read:
Page 1:PLOT
Page 2:PLOT
Page 3:PLOT
Page 4:PLOT
Page 5:PLOT
Page 6:BOO!

I would have loved to see their faces when they saw that.

For a while there it seemed like Stephen King was just churning out novels for the sake of his publisher having something to sell.

I agree. I haven't read every one of his books, but I have read a bunch of them. I wonder if he was just pulling stuff off the pile that had been sitting around for a while, finishing it up and cashing a check. But he seems to be somewhat back on track recently.

I recently read the unabridged 1100+ page version of The Stand. That was King in his prime and it was amazing.

I have done a few screen plays. one is really good. still hoping to get one of them made