Truth: The Job-Killing Impact of Minimum Wage Laws *VIDEO*

[Ethersync]

[signupdamnit]

<rolls eyes>

[roly]

i didn't watch the video, but based on here in the UK, a sensible minimum wage didn't have hardly any impact on unemployment, and it costs the country less in social security topup payments.

[GatorB]

bullshit.

say they got rid of minimum wage and now business paid $3 an hour. You know how many motherfucker would quit and just collect welfare instead? I would. Fuck working for $3 an hour.

Also with all these people make MUCH less money they have LESS money to spend at these very same places like wal-mart and McDonald's. Who is going to pay $5 for an extra value meal when you're making $3 an hour THINK. If minimum wage was $10 wal-mart and McDonald's would get MORE business not less. This extra business would FAR exceed any increase in payroll. Also more people making $10 an hour LESS people collecting welfare and food stamps. Where does the money for that come from? The TAXPAYER. So the TAXPAYER pays less taxes. Who loses? NO ONE.

[BlackCrayon]

who would work for less than minimum wage besides illegals?

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by GatorB

bullshit.

say they got rid of minimum wage and now business paid $3 an hour. You know how many motherfucker would quit and just collect welfare instead? I would. Fuck working for $3 an hour.

Also with all these people make MUCH less money they have LESS money to spend at these very same places like wal-mart and McDonald's. Who is going to pay $5 for an extra value meal when you're making $3 an hour THINK. If minimum wage was $10 wal-mart and McDonald's would get MORE business not less. This extra business would FAR exceed any increase in payroll. Also more people making $10 an hour LESS people collecting welfare and food stamps. Where does the money for that come from? The TAXPAYER. So the TAXPAYER pays less taxes. Who loses? NO ONE.

Exactly if people were making $3 an hour no one would buy a $5 value meal, so the cost of a value meal would have to go down to say $2 or even less. And if you paid people at McD's 25$ an hour a value meal would be $15 an hour. You are not thinking this all the way through.

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Exactly if people were making $3 an hour no one would buy a $5 value meal, so the cost of a value meal would have to go down to say $2 or even less. And if you paid people at McD's 25$ an hour a value meal would be $15 an hour. You are not thinking this all the way through.

qft, right on the money... Min wage increases ALSO drive up prices across the board... and yet... the entire rest of the world doesn't get raises to adjust for it... oh and welfare... that's another broken fucking system that teaches dependency on the system.

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

who would work for less than minimum wage besides illegals?

A FUCK ton of people with no jobs right now... well those that aren't lazy anyway :P

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by GatorB

bullshit.

say they got rid of minimum wage and now business paid $3 an hour. You know how many motherfucker would quit and just collect welfare instead? I would. Fuck working for $3 an hour.

Also with all these people make MUCH less money they have LESS money to spend at these very same places like wal-mart and McDonald's. Who is going to pay $5 for an extra value meal when you're making $3 an hour THINK. If minimum wage was $10 wal-mart and McDonald's would get MORE business not less. This extra business would FAR exceed any increase in payroll. Also more people making $10 an hour LESS people collecting welfare and food stamps. Where does the money for that come from? The TAXPAYER. So the TAXPAYER pays less taxes. Who loses? NO ONE.

So, let's just raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour then.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

A FUCK ton of people with no jobs right now... well those that aren't lazy anyway :P

You'd have to work like 16 hour days just to make enough to cover rent (people working for less than min wouldn't own a home..)

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

You'd have to work like 16 hour days just to make enough to cover rent (people working for less than min wouldn't own a home..)

Because the government and the fed keeps prices artificial.

[iseeyou]

minimum wage laws are a human rights issue.

It is reverse slave labor.

Slave labor is forced labor (no wage).

Minimum wage laws mean forced partial prohibition on laboring.

Minimum wage laws should be repealed on grounds that they hinder some people from finding work. The people who are forced out of work are the lower-classes, that is, the people whose labor is worth very little.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by iseeyou

minimum wage laws are a human rights issue.

It is reverse slave labor.

Slave labor is forced labor (no wage).

Minimum wage laws mean forced partial prohibition on laboring.

Minimum wage laws should be repealed on grounds that they hinder some people from finding work. The people who are forced out of work are the lower-classes, that is, the people whose labor is worth very little.

Worth very little to WHO?

I want my fucking garbage picked up!
And I want a garbage person who doesn't figure out that it's better to
come back tomorrow and rob my house rather than to keep working for $Shit/hour.

Do you think it's not worth much because it takes "no brains"????

Why don't us "smart people" figure out how to get rid of our fucking garbage
without dumb motherfuckers working for us?

I don't want the garbage company to hire someone that is stupid enough to
work for $3 a day and then send them to my house.......FUCK YOU!


Make minimum wage $3/hour and you will have nothing but illegals here since
the rest of society will turn to crime to pay the fucking rent.
Illegals are willing to pay the sacrifice of living 10 in an apartment.
People born here will not stand for that; they will just rob you at the ATM and
blame you for their poverty.

[sortie]

This shit is stupid.

Lower the minimum wage and America will collapse because who is going to
be spending money to drive the economy when 50% of the labor force is
flat broke?

[iseeyou]

The labor is worth whatever anyone wants to pay for it to anyone who wants to pay, except when some third-party interferes (such as mafia,government,etc).

When I read "I want my fucking garbage picked up!", it sounds like some selfish son-of-a-bitch who cares more about his garbage pickup than about society or justice or fairness or about other people in general.

There are basically 3 paths to "correct" labor markets through government controls.
1. More government control of labor markets.
2. Less government control of labor markets.
3. No change or minor changes.

The solution to garbage pickup is to privatize waste disposal. And before you reply, "I dont want my fucking neighbors to hire some dangerous poor ass people who might fuckin rob me when they are in the fucking neighborhood" ..... your neighbors should have the right to hire "dangerous looking people" even if you dont like how they look or dont like their social status or income. Dont act like a nazi by thinking that low-class people have no right to be in "your" neighborhood. It's not "your" neighborhood unless you acutally own it.

The alternative solution is .... mandatory wage increases .... which may lead to fewer employed people if the minimum wage is set higher than the freemarket wage .... which leads to more gov handouts to the increasing number of unemployed ... which leads to even greater numbers of unemployed as unemployment becomes profitable and attracts newcomers .... which leads to even more extreme government measures to spur labor and reduce unemployment.

Soviet Communism failed (partially) because it eventually leads to totalitarian controls on economic activity. Dont go in that direction. Go in the other direction instead. Even "Communist" China stopped heading down the path of totalitarian economic controls.

Think about this .... If minimum wage laws are so good and effective, then why do they need to be increased occasionally? If they are increased because of , lets say, inflation, then does that mean they were insufficient for a period of time? Yes, it does (by this reasoning). And if minimum wage laws are sometimes insufficient, then how much are minimum wage laws really helping?

The reality is that government is slow to "fix" minimum wages. And before you even think it .......... giving power to government to change the minimum wage, overnight, would just mean another step toward totalitarian economic controls. It would be mean a small group of officials could change the minimum wage overnight with little or no public review. Overnight is not enough time for public (voter or congressional) review or approval.

Finally, someone can always try to rob your house, if they make that choice, with or without minimum wage laws. If there is enough wealth in your house, maybe someone will try to rob you even though the robber already has a minimum wage job. I can only say "maybe" because I dont know anything about this hypothetical robber.

It's like saying that higher speed limits result in more accidents. That is not necessarily true. High speed limits mean vehicles can spend less time on the road, which means less traffic, which means less vehicles to crash into.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by roly

i didn't watch the video, but based on here in the UK, a sensible minimum wage didn't have hardly any impact on unemployment, and it costs the country less in social security topup payments.

How about impact on inflation?

[almoe]

Originally Posted by GatorB

bullshit.

say they got rid of minimum wage and now business paid $3 an hour. You know how many motherfucker would quit and just collect welfare instead? I would. Fuck working for $3 an hour.

EXACTLY ... without realizing it you just made the point of the video. You would not work for $3 per hour. So a potential employer would have to raise his wage to a rate that you and others would work for ... That's the MARKET RATE and that is the way it should be not the fucking government telling bussinesses what they have to pay.

The more things the government interfers with things the more like the fucking socialist 80% tax paying Britts we become.

We fought a war a while back cause we did not like the way the Britts ran things.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by iseeyou

The labor is worth whatever anyone wants to pay for it

But if I wait a few months you'll start a thread about how pro football players
get paid too much and there needs to be a "salary cap".


Yes, I stopped reading your post after that. I mean, if you lead with your chin then
I just knock it out and move on.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by almoe

EXACTLY ... without realizing it you just made the point of the video. You would not work for $3 per hour. So a potential employer would have to raise his wage to a rate that you and others would work for ... That's the MARKET RATE and that is the way it should be not the fucking government telling bussinesses what they have to pay.

The more things the government interfers with things the more like the fucking socialist 80% tax paying Britts we become.

We fought a war a while back cause we did not like the way the Britts ran things.

You know something.

All that shit you said has been tried!
It's called history......(dumb motherfuckers should read it).

We had slavery, then we had slave wages; then we had collusion.
Been there, done that.

We are not interested in allowing people, who basically want slaves, to figure out
a way to get them by forcing poverty among the work force so there is no
choice but to work for $2 a day.

If there is no minimum wage set by the government then local business will set it
by Collusion.

If I go to city hall/chamber of commerce and get a list of every business in the
city and we meet and decide to set the wage at $3 and hour then there will be
no other option except for everyone to work at that wage.

Then we will have a society of business owners and peasants; lords and serfs;
back to the old Europe that half the people here ancestors were escaping from when
they sailed to America.

Wake the fuck up.

[signupdamnit]

Ethersync, did you really post this because you are concerned about the poor and wish to truly help them? If not what is your motivation here? Just curious.

[woj]

It's nothing more than a hidden "tax" on business owners...

lets say certain job is worth $6/hour, you are forced to pay $7/hour, the $1/hr difference is a hidden tax that gets transferred directly from business owner to the employee..

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Point blank:

There is no reason whatsoever that a worker would promote the concepts
in this video. I don't see any blue collar picket lines calling for lower wages.


If you get rid of minimum wage what you will see is work strikes and riots.

Then how much business will get done.

Anyone think workers don't have power?
Then you have no idea of how the current labor laws came to exist.


To anyone who desires to truly be informed about labor in America then
please read the novel "The Jungle".

Here is a wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle

Read that book and see if you still have the stupidity to advocate no minimum wage.

[woj]

Originally Posted by sortie

Point blank:

There is no reason whatsoever that a worker would promote the concepts
in this video. I don't see any blue collar picket lines calling for lower wages.

workers? of course not, they are getting overpaid for their skill level, why would they complain?

whether unemployed would (or should) support no minimum wage laws on the other hand is debatable...

[sortie]

Originally Posted by woj

workers? of course not, they are getting overpaid for their skill level, why would they complain?

whether unemployed would (or should) support no minimum wage laws on the other hand is debatable...

What you said is equal to surfers saying your porn site is over paid because
your whores don't have any skills.

Then there would be a flood of happy new whores if you paid less because
now they can work too since you can stretch your budget now.

Regan framed this same backward ideology when he coined the phrase "Trickle Down effect".

Regan said that if big business got tax breaks then they would have more money to
invest and the wealth would "trickle down".

Never happened. What happened was a recession in the following Bush#1 term where
America saw the extension of unemployment benefits like never before.

There in lies the secret to young people as to why Bill Clinton is seen as a good
president. The recession ended under Bill Clinton and return again for Bush#2.

[iseeyou]

Originally Posted by sortie

But if I wait a few months you'll start a thread about how pro football players
get paid too much and there needs to be a "salary cap".

I am not a hypocrite like you imagine me to be in your small mind.

I do not complain that pro football players are paid too much. And even if I did think they are paid too much, that does not mean I advocate maximum wage laws. I could advocate boycotting football games/shows instead. There are other ways to achieve your goals than through government. Government is good at stopping,punishing,and destroying things. But lousy at promoting and creating things.

[iseeyou]

The reason that low-income workers are rarely seen opposing minimum wage laws is because

1. they are stupid or ignorant or afraid or simply dont care

OR

2. they are brainwashed by public (or private or maybe even home) schools where they are taught that labor laws are good for them and only protect and help them.

OR

3. They are union members (or pro-labor activists/politicans) who seek to increase their own salary, at the expense of the unemployed and under-employed, and the general public through increased product prices (customers are charged more in order to to pay higher worker salaries).

4. I cant think of any other reasons.

[Agent 488]

just kill yourself.

[almoe]

Originally Posted by sortie

Never happened. What happened was a recession in the following Bush#1 term where
America saw the extension of unemployment benefits like never before.

There in lies the secret to young people as to why Bill Clinton is seen as a good
president. The recession ended under Bill Clinton and return again for Bush#2.

Reagan presided over the largest and longest peacetime economic growth in US history ... and yes there was a mild recession under George H. W. Bush but it only lasted about 6 months and the uneployment rate only reached 7.8% not even close to the 10.8% that was in effect when Reagan took over.

Originally Posted by sortie

It's called history......(dumb motherfuckers should read it).

And as for minimum wage ... I am no economist but where I work we had 24 people barely making enough to survive because they only made $5.15 per hour. Now after the new minimum wage we only have 13. The other 11 lost their jobs.

[roly]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

How about impact on inflation?

no impact whatsoever, the people who were earning less than the minimum wage before it was introduced would have been receiving top up social security payments from the government. so they didn't suddenly have more money in their pocket, but it wasn't being subsidised any longer. also over here they put it up in stages.

[iseeyou]

Originally Posted by roly

no impact whatsoever, the people who were earning less than the minimum wage before it was introduced would have been receiving top up social security payments from the government. so they didn't suddenly have more money in their pocket, but it wasn't being subsidised any longer. also over here they put it up in stages.

Let's say you're right and the amount of money spent by these workers was the same before and after minimum wage laws.

Still, I dont see how a business with a slim profit margin can avoid increasing their prices (to pay for the higher wages). Unless they qualify for some extra tax breaks or gov assistance, or get a big loan to continue operating at a small annual loss (due to paying higher worker wages).

Or maybe some businesses with slim profit margins will simply fold and lay off their workers. While more profitable companies will try to maintain prices and suffer reduced profit margins, but will pick up some new customers (from the folded company), which compensates a little for the reduced profit margins. And they might even hire some of the laid off workers, but I doubt they can hire all of them and still maintain previous prices (unless the minimum wage is not so high or unless government gives out subsidies).

[darksoul]

We had a minimum wage set for programmers that finished a university.
What happened was that companies started hiring people who didn't finish their studies instead. Now the ones that got their degrees had to lie in their CVs so that they can get a job.
Thats minimum wage at work for ya.

[darksoul]

Btw, a good read is "Applied Economics" by Thomas Sowell
its a very well written book for regular people that really puts things in perspective

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Ethersync, did you really post this because you are concerned about the poor and wish to truly help them? If not what is your motivation here? Just curious.

I posted it to stir up a debate and maybe help educate people here.

You will not find an economist anywhere that says minimum wage laws do not decrease employment. That is a fact. Even those that believe there should be a minimum wage will say this. It's just common sense. Something greatly lacking on this forum sometimes.

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by darksoul

Btw, a good read is "Applied Economics" by Thomas Sowell
its a very well written book for regular people that really puts things in perspective

Yes, that is a great book.

Here is a photo of the author...



And the book...
http://www.amazon.com/Applied-Econom.../dp/0465081436

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by roly

i didn't watch the video, but based on here in the UK, a sensible minimum wage didn't have hardly any impact on unemployment, and it costs the country less in social security topup payments.

It went further than that too in terms of costing the country less

Tiny wages + tax credits + free dentist/glasses/school dinners for your kids + cheaper rent + other things I havn't thought of

Minimum wage + sorry you don't qualify for all the other free shit now

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by darksoul

We had a minimum wage set for programmers that finished a university.
What happened was that companies started hiring people who didn't finish their studies instead. Now the ones that got their degrees had to lie in their CVs so that they can get a job.
Thats minimum wage at work for ya.

this is far different than a minimum wage being set across the board...

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by sortie

Worth very little to WHO?

I want my fucking garbage picked up!
And I want a garbage person who doesn't figure out that it's better to
come back tomorrow and rob my house rather than to keep working for $Shit/hour.

Do you think it's not worth much because it takes "no brains"????

Why don't us "smart people" figure out how to get rid of our fucking garbage
without dumb motherfuckers working for us?

I don't want the garbage company to hire someone that is stupid enough to
work for $3 a day and then send them to my house.......FUCK YOU!


Make minimum wage $3/hour and you will have nothing but illegals here since
the rest of society will turn to crime to pay the fucking rent.
Illegals are willing to pay the sacrifice of living 10 in an apartment.
People born here will not stand for that; they will just rob you at the ATM and
blame you for their poverty.

garbage men earn good money

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_m...collector_earn

it a stigma job, and it not very healthy, supply and demand drives the price up.

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

this is far different than a minimum wage being set across the board...

Why?



/8chr

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by sortie

What you said is equal to surfers saying your porn site is over paid because
your whores don't have any skills.

Then there would be a flood of happy new whores if you paid less because
now they can work too since you can stretch your budget now.

this is the stupidest statement you have ever made
your trying to use a market driven price as a justification to artifically inflated government defined price.

the porn models are paid what they are paid because of market conditions.
how much money can be made with the content
the stigma of acting in such a scene
the loss of future income /personal relationships etc

minimum wage is an increase without the effect of market conditions.
a way to increase the price of work when the market price given all factors (see above) doesn't justify a premium.

Regan framed this same backward ideology when he coined the phrase "Trickle Down effect".

Regan said that if big business got tax breaks then they would have more money to
invest and the wealth would "trickle down".

Never happened. What happened was a recession in the following Bush#1 term where
America saw the extension of unemployment benefits like never before.

go back and look at the history again
"trickle down effect" was the derogatory term used by the democrats to describe supply side economics. The principle had nothing to do with wealth trickling down it was about targeting investment into supply side (production, innovation etc) rather then consumption because reagan inherited hyper inflation and record unemployement at the same time.

What he did actually successfully stabalized the economy

bush screwed it up by not sticking to the principle.
he implemented a luxury tax on things like yachts which raised the price of those goods.
he was supposed to get 2 dollars of tax cuts for every dollar of revenue generated
the problem was because the price was raised on those luxury items
people didn't buy them
and the end result was the people building those boats lost their jobs.

There in lies the secret to young people as to why Bill Clinton is seen as a good
president. The recession ended under Bill Clinton and return again for Bush#2.

bush reversed the luxury tax near the end of his term

so bill clinton inherited an economy which did not have the artifical barrier to economic growth.
bill clinton major success was failing to get all the big pork programs he wanted to get thru.
health care reform dead etc.

slicky willy was a great manipulator but not a good idea man
bush was a good idea man by not a great manipulator so he had to compromise to get things done, and he got killed by the consequences of those compromises

reagan was the last great president he was an influencer and a good idea man he understood the consequences of the decisions he made, and he had the charisma to convince people to do things his way.

[ADL Colin]

You can raise the minimum wage all you want ... tubes will still be free