Ever wanted to live off grid? - GoFuckYourself.com

$5 submissions · 06-13-2010, 07:37 PM

Have you ever wanted to generate your own electricity and live off grid? How about growing your own feed?

Independence-minded GFYers speak up

Amputate Your Head · 06-13-2010, 07:39 PM

No. Living off the grid sucks balls. The next time I go off the grid it will be because anarchy has taken over and I have no choice.

L-Pink · 06-13-2010, 07:39 PM

Nice little farm? Sure.

.

Sly · 06-13-2010, 07:41 PM

I think I would go crazy being away from the city. Being in a small city is bad enough.

Remote places are for vacation, not for living. For me anyway.

fatfoo · 06-13-2010, 07:42 PM

Have you ever thought about thermal ocean energy?
Maybe it is better than nuclear energy.

v4 media · 06-14-2010, 01:13 AM

Yep, the land is already purchased. I move to the nearest village to there in 6 weeks and spend the next year building my house. All off grid (solar/wind and I've got a spring for water.) apart from internet and that's a wifi network that covers the whole area.

MetaMan · 06-14-2010, 01:18 AM

"Living off the grid" is for pussies and hippies. i purposely leave all the lights on in my house all day just because i can.

hell im not even cooking anything and i have the microwave going.

MetaMan · 06-14-2010, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v4 media

Yep, the land is already purchased. I move to the nearest village to there in 6 weeks and spend the next year building my house. All off grid (solar/wind and I've got a spring for water.) apart from internet and that's a wifi network that covers the whole area.

pussy/hippy

Owner · 06-14-2010, 01:28 AM

John Twelve Hawks

kane · 06-14-2010, 02:05 AM

I like the idea of it, but the reality of it is pretty rough. I grew up in a very rural area around and on farms and stuff. It is a lot of work maintaining a farm. The solar stuff and water stuff would be easy once you had it set up, but the work just to put food on your table would be nearly endless.

TrainWreckContent · 06-14-2010, 02:29 AM

i dont think i would like it...the idea is cool but the reality of it probbaly not so much

martinsc · 06-14-2010, 02:59 AM

nah, that's not for me....

v4 media · 06-14-2010, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

pussy/hippy

hehe nope. People fuck me the hell off. So I'd rather not see anyone unless I want to.

That and I don't want to pay $300k for a concrete box. When I can have 20 acres and a nice stone house for half that.

ottopottomouse · 06-14-2010, 04:19 AM

Prefer being around other people too much.

seeandsee · 06-14-2010, 04:34 AM

I can only stick tv cable in my ass to prodcue power, no wind, no fast river, too much sunny days, nothing...

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 06-14-2010, 10:16 AM

definitely done my reading, and i build it will as self sustainable as possible. i'm sure it wont be 100% off the grid, but in terms of saving money. why not look into things geothermal heat and solar/wind power? not only does it reduce your footprint, it saves you money.

crazytrini85 · 06-14-2010, 10:22 AM

Those who prepare to live off the grid will be in a good position in about 10 years or so. The world is in a dark place and it's only getting darker.

Bird · 06-14-2010, 10:25 AM

Off Grig No, But a sick ass green beach house would be the shiznit.

Amputate Your Head · 06-14-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytrini85

Those who prepare to live off the grid will be in a good position in about 10 years or so. The world is in a dark place and it's only getting darker.

Most people would not survive a "dark" world. If civility of society gets thrown out and things become "Survive or Die", quite a good section of people would not be on the surviving side of things. On or off the grid, most people today have no concept of what it means to live for your own survival. Getting off the grid is one thing... defending it afterward is another.

CIVMatt · 06-14-2010, 10:35 AM

That's fucking stupid

Although I do have a oh shit bag and a pistol ready to go at a moments notice

BestXXXPorn · 06-14-2010, 10:39 AM

LOL, sure thermal/solar/aero/whatever ... you'll save money after using it for about 20 - 30 YEARS... And that's IF you don't have to repair anything...

quiet · 06-14-2010, 10:44 AM

i think about it all of the time. as long as everything is reasonably stable, i'm not going anywhere. i already have a small piece of land up high in the mountains that i'm going to build a cabin on though, right next to a lake, to fish and fuck around. i finally got a gun too lol.

crazytrini85 · 06-14-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Most people would not survive a "dark" world. If civility of society gets thrown out and things become "Survive or Die", quite a good section of people would not be on the surviving side of things. On or off the grid, most people today have no concept of what it means to live for your own survival. Getting off the grid is one thing... defending it afterward is another.

Absolutely.

I'm all for being self sufficient and off the grid but I'd also better be ready to defend my food, family, water and home when bandits come for it, and they will.

1) Off the grid
2) Self sufficiency
3) Guns / Ammo - and the ability and know-how to use them. Kill or be killed.

Honez · 06-14-2010, 10:49 AM

Totally off the grid would be a lot of work but, I wouldn't mind incorporating some things into my living situation such as growing a garden and getting solar panels.

Bird · 06-14-2010, 10:51 AM

I want one of these with full solar....

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 06-14-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Most people would not survive a "dark" world. If civility of society gets thrown out and things become "Survive or Die", quite a good section of people would not be on the surviving side of things. On or off the grid, most people today have no concept of what it means to live for your own survival. Getting off the grid is one thing... defending it afterward is another.

Take every one of the whiny "guns kill people" crybabies and scratch them off the list to start. If you were born and raised in the city, you're probably the next to go. The vast majority of the population would be completely fucked. In the cities you'd have organized gangs of criminals running absolutely everything. The rest would pour out into the countryside where they would most likely starve. Even in the rural areas most people these days have no concept of survival or what i takes to live off the land.

Obviously I have no intention of disappearing into the bush as is, I'm comfy in my softened lifestyle. however, if it were to come to that point, I like to think I'm fairly prepared to up and disappear into the mountains should I have to.

v4 media · 06-14-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

LOL, sure thermal/solar/aero/whatever ... you'll save money after using it for about 20 - 30 YEARS... And that's IF you don't have to repair anything...

I was quoted $18k to connect to the grid because of distance to the nearest cable.
So it was pay $18k, and have a monthly bill.
or because of massive grants, pay $14k for solar/wind and not have any bills.

I'm doing it cause its cheaper, not for any other reason.

And as there's a spring on the land delivering amazing clean water, that a few miles away is bottled and sold as mountain spring water. fuck it. may as well use it for free.

Tom_PM · 06-14-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

LOL, sure thermal/solar/aero/whatever ... you'll save money after using it for about 20 - 30 YEARS... And that's IF you don't have to repair anything...

When does your utility company call you and say, "You and your family have paid us enough money over the last couple of generations. Please stop giving us money each month." ?

quiet · 06-14-2010, 11:23 AM

this pbs doc is the definition of 'living of grid'. dick was a cool mofo, no doubt:

http://www.off-grid.net/2010/03/27/a...he-wilderness/

theking · 06-14-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Have you ever wanted to generate your own electricity and live off grid? How about growing your own feed?

Independence-minded GFYers speak up

I have lived off of grid. I used to own a small A-Frame in the wilderness. Everything that required electricity in the A-Frame was rigged for 12 volts. A small windmill kept four 12 volt batteries charged. A small windmill supplied the water. For heat it had a wood burning stove and had a propane cook stove. I loved the place but the road to the place...if you could actually call it a road...was tough to navigate and is the reason I ultimately sold it. At some point in time after I sold it a forest fire burned it down.

_Richard_ · 06-14-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiet

this pbs doc is the definition of 'living of grid'. dick was a cool mofo, no doubt:

http://www.off-grid.net/2010/03/27/a...he-wilderness/

thanks for the link

96ukssob · 06-14-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

"Living off the grid" is for pussies and hippies. i purposely leave all the lights on in my house all day just because i can.

hell im not even cooking anything and i have the microwave going.

when i leave i turn the AC to 50 degrees Fahrenheit just so when i get back its freezing cold and i get to use my winter jacket during the summer

BestXXXPorn · 06-14-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

When does your utility company call you and say, "You and your family have paid us enough money over the last couple of generations. Please stop giving us money each month." ?

Never but to support the power draw of my house during peak times, to really live "off the grid"... I'd have to drop $120k for a solar solution...

Since when does the utility company EVER bill you that much? Not to mention the interest you could have made on the cash if you weren't spending that much up front... It would take me 34 YEARS to rack up that kind of bill... add in repairs + the aforementioned interest and you're looking at NEVER paying back your investment to be "off the grid"... and when your power goes out... there's no one working but you to get it back on ;)

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the numbers to add up. If they did, I'd be all over it!

fris · 06-14-2010, 12:42 PM

when I hear off the grid, i assume they mean by being a ghost not traceable

JFK · 06-14-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fris

when I hear off the grid, i assume they mean by being a ghost not traceable

so did I

MetaMan · 06-14-2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossku69

when i leave i turn the AC to 50 degrees Fahrenheit just so when i get back its freezing cold and i get to use my winter jacket during the summer

ya dude fuck these hippies!

i will use like 2 blocks of toilet paper and flush the toilet, but the time im done i flush like 6x. why should i have to look at a dirty toilet bowl?

if i know a show is on at 7:00 and im out of the house at 12:00 until than i will put the TV to the channel so its rdy when i get back.

ADL Colin · 06-14-2010, 01:01 PM

You mean like, with dial-up?

PR_Glen · 06-14-2010, 01:10 PM

it's not cost effective at all... over 100 thousand dollar investment (not including upkeep) and saves you what? 5000 bucks a year tops? The upkeep ruins those numbers guaranteed... and why does it have to be in the boons? you can live off the grid in the burbs if you wanted to...would even get rebates depending on location.

they start building houses this way instead that may help change things, its the conversion costs that make it ridiculous.

Nikki_Licks · 06-14-2010, 01:18 PM

Yep, been there. I lived off the grid for 7 years in the mountains. It was a rough life but was rewarding at the same time.....the things we take for granted was a big eye opener!

mayabong · 06-14-2010, 01:26 PM

I lived off the grid for a while in hawaii, it was great. Water was catchment, solar, composting toilet.. fires to cook or just eat shit off the trees.

mayabong · 06-14-2010, 01:29 PM

If there is a dark time coming (economic crash, power grid shutting down). People usually bond together in disasters and help eachother out. Probably the best thing that could happen to humanity.

mayabong · 06-14-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v4 media

I was quoted $18k to connect to the grid because of distance to the nearest cable.
So it was pay $18k, and have a monthly bill.
or because of massive grants, pay $14k for solar/wind and not have any bills.

I'm doing it cause its cheaper, not for any other reason.

And as there's a spring on the land delivering amazing clean water, that a few miles away is bottled and sold as mountain spring water. fuck it. may as well use it for free.

Where you at?

Tom_PM · 06-14-2010, 01:33 PM

I think it's a terrible assumption STILL these days that no matter what, it costs too much money up front and will not be worth it.

People started saying that when electricity was pennies compared to dollars today. People who didnt listen then are watching their meters turn backwards today and the power company cuts THEM a check monthly.

Everyone has to do their own math honestly. By which I mean WITH honesty.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 06-14-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayabong

If there is a dark time coming (economic crash, power grid shutting down). People usually bond together in disasters and help eachother out. Probably the best thing that could happen to humanity.

for a short term sure. see how log people band together if the supplies start running desperately low. what if the dark period lasts a decade and everyone is out on the streets? people will turn on one another fast.

$5 submissions · 06-14-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bird

I want one of these with full solar....

That's a sweet design! Recycled and restyled cargo containers plus the layout saves on lighting and ventilation costs. Thanks for the video. Very inspiring.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 06-14-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

People who didnt listen then are watching their meters turn backwards today and the power company cuts THEM a check monthly.

I know a lot of people where this is the case, and they're setup for far far less than $100k. solar and wind power is getting pretty popular back home along the farmers in the area and i know of two different business around my families hometown that have sprung up in the last couple years that specialize completely in solar and wind power.

i've also heard of a couple embarassing instances where people went with wind turbines, only to find out the wind never blows in their area, but for the most part, everyone i know of who has gone forth with it, is very impressed with their investment.

v4 media · 06-14-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayabong

Where you at?

Spain, Catalan/Aragon border.

Amputate Your Head · 06-14-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayabong

If there is a dark time coming (economic crash, power grid shutting down). People usually bond together in disasters and help eachother out. Probably the best thing that could happen to humanity.

LOL

There would be absolute mayhem. Anyone that wants to remain alive would be packing heavy. No one would trust any one. The true meaning of 'The strong survive and the weak are eaten' would become evident real damn quick to anyone still stuck in Fantasyland. There might be some banding together, but it wouldn't be for anything good. And it likely wouldn't hold up to an encounter with some other groups already fully prepared for it.... like MS-13.

Suburbia and everything that goes with it would die on Day 1.

Gerco · 06-14-2010, 02:22 PM

Bring it on. I'm getting more isolated everyday. Moved out of the cities have chickens now, (fresh eggs daily rocks) Have my own land thats private. Slowly am working on powering the place up off grid. I have 2 4x8 solar collectors for heating water sitting in my driveway ready to be installed. Will start adding the Electric solar collectors after they are working. Been slowly building up a garden.

$5 submissions · 06-14-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerco

Bring it on. I'm getting more isolated everyday. Moved out of the cities have chickens now, (fresh eggs daily rocks) Have my own land thats private. Slowly am working on powering the place up off grid. I have 2 4x8 solar collectors for heating water sitting in my driveway ready to be installed. Will start adding the Electric solar collectors after they are working. Been slowly building up a garden.

Sounds awesome. I wonder how long it will take for a fully green and offgrid house/community.

06-13-2010, 07:37 PM	#1
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Ever wanted to live off grid? Have you ever wanted to generate your own electricity and live off grid? How about growing your own feed? Independence-minded GFYers speak up __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

06-13-2010, 07:39 PM	#2
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	No. Living off the grid sucks balls. The next time I go off the grid it will be because anarchy has taken over and I have no choice. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

06-13-2010, 07:41 PM	#4
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,339	I think I would go crazy being away from the city. Being in a small city is bad enough. Remote places are for vacation, not for living. For me anyway. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

06-13-2010, 07:42 PM	#5
fatfoo ICQ:649699063 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 27,763	Have you ever thought about thermal ocean energy? Maybe it is better than nuclear energy. __________________ Send me an email: [email protected]

06-14-2010, 01:28 AM	#9
Owner Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 905	John Twelve Hawks __________________

06-13-2010, 07:39 PM	#3
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	Nice little farm? Sure. .

06-14-2010, 01:13 AM	#6
v4 media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Spain Posts: 2,934	Yep, the land is already purchased. I move to the nearest village to there in 6 weeks and spend the next year building my house. All off grid (solar/wind and I've got a spring for water.) apart from internet and that's a wifi network that covers the whole area.

06-14-2010, 01:18 AM	#7
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	"Living off the grid" is for pussies and hippies. i purposely leave all the lights on in my house all day just because i can. hell im not even cooking anything and i have the microwave going.

06-14-2010, 02:05 AM	#10
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	I like the idea of it, but the reality of it is pretty rough. I grew up in a very rural area around and on farms and stuff. It is a lot of work maintaining a farm. The solar stuff and water stuff would be easy once you had it set up, but the work just to put food on your table would be nearly endless.

06-14-2010, 02:29 AM	#11
TrainWreckContent Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Under a Train Wreck Posts: 8,139	i dont think i would like it...the idea is cool but the reality of it probbaly not so much __________________ Train Wreck Content Telegram @DanTrainwreck / Whatsapp TrainWreck / Email [email protected]

06-14-2010, 02:59 AM	#12
martinsc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 27,047	nah, that's not for me.... __________________ Make Money

06-14-2010, 04:19 AM	#14
ottopottomouse She is ugly, bad luck. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,177	Prefer being around other people too much. __________________ ↑ see post ↑ 13101

06-14-2010, 04:34 AM	#15
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	I can only stick tv cable in my ass to prodcue power, no wind, no fast river, too much sunny days, nothing... __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

06-14-2010, 10:16 AM	#16
Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life (felis madjewicus) Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In Mom & Dad's Basement Posts: 20,368	definitely done my reading, and i build it will as self sustainable as possible. i'm sure it wont be 100% off the grid, but in terms of saving money. why not look into things geothermal heat and solar/wind power? not only does it reduce your footprint, it saves you money.

06-14-2010, 10:22 AM	#17
crazytrini85 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Over there. Posts: 817	Those who prepare to live off the grid will be in a good position in about 10 years or so. The world is in a dark place and it's only getting darker. __________________ These are my top converting sponsors.

06-14-2010, 10:25 AM	#18
Bird Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Stockton Posts: 4,365	Off Grig No, But a sick ass green beach house would be the shiznit. __________________ ICQ:268731675

06-14-2010, 10:35 AM	#20
CIVMatt Amateur Pimpin Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 13,075	That's fucking stupid Although I do have a oh shit bag and a pistol ready to go at a moments notice __________________ Make easy money with Webcams

06-14-2010, 10:39 AM	#21
BestXXXPorn Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 2,277	LOL, sure thermal/solar/aero/whatever ... you'll save money after using it for about 20 - 30 YEARS... And that's IF you don't have to repair anything... __________________ ICQ: 258-202-811 \| Email: eric{at}bestxxxporn.com

06-14-2010, 10:44 AM	#22
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	i think about it all of the time. as long as everything is reasonably stable, i'm not going anywhere. i already have a small piece of land up high in the mountains that i'm going to build a cabin on though, right next to a lake, to fish and fuck around. i finally got a gun too lol. __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

06-14-2010, 10:49 AM	#24
Honez Confirmed Brat Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 6,636	Totally off the grid would be a lot of work but, I wouldn't mind incorporating some things into my living situation such as growing a garden and getting solar panels. __________________ Your Paysite Partner Hone at YourPaysitePartner dot Com Skype - Stressmonkey

06-14-2010, 10:51 AM	#25
Bird Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Stockton Posts: 4,365	I want one of these with full solar.... __________________ ICQ:268731675

06-14-2010, 11:23 AM	#29
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	this pbs doc is the definition of 'living of grid'. dick was a cool mofo, no doubt: http://www.off-grid.net/2010/03/27/a...he-wilderness/ __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

06-14-2010, 12:42 PM	#34
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,372	when I hear off the grid, i assume they mean by being a ghost not traceable __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. WP Stuff

06-14-2010, 01:01 PM	#37
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	You mean like, with dial-up? __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

06-14-2010, 01:10 PM	#38
PR_Glen Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 9,058	it's not cost effective at all... over 100 thousand dollar investment (not including upkeep) and saves you what? 5000 bucks a year tops? The upkeep ruins those numbers guaranteed... and why does it have to be in the boons? you can live off the grid in the burbs if you wanted to...would even get rebates depending on location. they start building houses this way instead that may help change things, its the conversion costs that make it ridiculous. __________________ webmaster at pimproll dot com

06-14-2010, 01:18 PM	#39
Nikki_Licks Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Behind The Lens Posts: 6,323	Yep, been there. I lived off the grid for 7 years in the mountains. It was a rough life but was rewarding at the same time.....the things we take for granted was a big eye opener! __________________ Amateur Content ICQ: 292 356 077

06-14-2010, 01:26 PM	#40
mayabong Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,952	I lived off the grid for a while in hawaii, it was great. Water was catchment, solar, composting toilet.. fires to cook or just eat shit off the trees. __________________ Bitcoin Gambling Sites

06-14-2010, 01:29 PM	#41
mayabong Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,952	If there is a dark time coming (economic crash, power grid shutting down). People usually bond together in disasters and help eachother out. Probably the best thing that could happen to humanity. __________________ Bitcoin Gambling Sites

06-14-2010, 01:33 PM	#43
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	I think it's a terrible assumption STILL these days that no matter what, it costs too much money up front and will not be worth it. People started saying that when electricity was pennies compared to dollars today. People who didnt listen then are watching their meters turn backwards today and the power company cuts THEM a check monthly. Everyone has to do their own math honestly. By which I mean WITH honesty. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

06-14-2010, 02:22 PM	#49
Gerco Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,052	Bring it on. I'm getting more isolated everyday. Moved out of the cities have chickens now, (fresh eggs daily rocks) Have my own land thats private. Slowly am working on powering the place up off grid. I have 2 4x8 solar collectors for heating water sitting in my driveway ready to be installed. Will start adding the Electric solar collectors after they are working. Been slowly building up a garden. __________________ Http://www.extremehole.com ** CLOSED ** 400 HOURS of exclusive custom extreme content, already on external HD in Raw DV ready to encode. over 150,000 exclusive images and more.