considering I make twice as much per month from rebills as new sales... the answer is no.

with pps you are supporting all those shady practices, if there will be no high pps, there will be less scamms at the surfers. i am on revs everywhere where its possible, with pps i can make few thousands more per month, but i have been surfer once so i am trying to play nice ...

Agreed and great post :thumbsup

yea... :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

The "long term" argument becomes less and less relevant as retention suffers in this industry... No matter how often you update and how clean your billing is :2 cents:

That doesnt really mean anything though when you think about it.

If you were doing PPS your new sales overall amount would be way way higher therefore cancelling out your theory.

That would be really fucked up. Way to go, bro! :Oh crap

I think more PPS programs are going to close than revshare ones. I find customers are tending to buy year memberships or else rebilling for a shorter time, when monthly used to be most common. So, depending on whether longer discounted memberships are attractive enough, you might get more dough short term from some PPS programs, if their rebills are not good enough, but the flip side is that the PPS programs, especially ones with low rebills, are the ones most likely to get in over their heads in the current economy and be unable to pay.

Edit: Thinking about it, I do tend to go PPS with the occasional program, usually if the sponsor is both really really really big and established *and* the content is fairly non-niche. Even so, approx 100% of the folks I've had trouble collecting from seem to fall under that category.

A few years ago I wouldn't have thought this, but today is a different Shap. If he's advising one thing, the likely motive behind it is greed. More money for Shap, and less for you.

I concur.

Shap is a greedy asshole and I feel he will fuck you over at first opportunity.

$50 pps.

I've been revshare all the way for as long as I've been an affiliate. More money in the long run, and it's always been my sense that PPS outfits are more likely to screw my surfers, making them less likely to buy something via one of my sites next time.

However, in recent months the recurring billing stats have been just brutal -- I'm not getting much payoff from my revshare sales. Combine that with all the outfits who close their affiliate programs and keep all the rebills, and it's starting to look like I should do more PPS.

LOL, you guys are idiots.

Read his fucking post people.

Shap was and still is a huge affiliate, he is considering changing over HIS affiliate accounts with other programs to PPS.

FFS.

While you're laughing out loud at all of us idiots...I'd like to say that this is what we are all responding to:
He posed a hypothetical question FIRST, and then gave some possible reasons and then asked for everyone else's thoughts.

Not sure what post you are reading.

I usually prefer revshare, but some sites that offer trials (look at fuzebox's post) I don't make much money on revshare when compared to pps.

RevShare FTW. PPS is for scammers.

That's not true. I promoted Nasty Dollars for years. Wish to God it had been revshare back when Milf Hunter first came out. Jesus...50+ signups a day every day back then.

Anyway, they weren't "scammers" they were just smart enough not to let us affiliates continue to make money for nothing past the initial sale. :( I'd still be living off those rebills from 8 years ago.

Not many revshare programs do the kind of volume the big PPS programs do. When you are paying out the most for traffic/joins you are taking more risk for more rewards..

Yeah but 8 years ago a surfer didn't sign up to a site and cancel before he even knows what the members area looks like :disgust

I still prefer revshare as well. You make money and I make money. There ought to be more stability in this model. That said if a sponsor does kill its affiliate program and keep all the rebills for themselves I think you need to call them on it. Find out who the owners are and make sure their ability to open anything on the internet under their name is severely damaged for the next decade. It's one thing close up shop on a PPS program, it's another to close down a revshare program, still process the rebills, and then pocket the affiliates cut.

..... +1

not sure, don`t know really

You obviously have never met me. It's a shame you think that. If ever you attend a show or visit Toronto or Bahamas let me know. I'll take you out to dinner and we'll have a talk. I'm more than happy to share my thoughts on the biz and the reasons for the decisions we make and the direction we are going in.

Btw this goes for anyone. We are an open book. Anyone who wants to get together Face to Face let me know :thumbsup

Thank you! There are a number of things happening that are making it very difficult for companies to stay in business. Any company not managing their finances properly is no doubt having trouble surviving. I said this a few weeks ago you have to try this like a biz in 2010 or you will be out of business. Budgeting and being smart with your money is one of the most important things you have to do. We've had people approach us to acquire them and I'm shocked and saddened by how poorly they manage their business (in some cases these are companies many of you think are well run companies).

I agree. It's a shame how this is happening.

It amazes me I mention us discussing going mostly to PPS (discussing not doing LOL) and everyone assumes I'm talking about companies with high rape your surfer pps programs. That isn't at all what I'm referring to. I'm referring to PPS vs REVS in general for the companies you currently promote.

Shady billing practices have taught those who truly enjoy porn how to protect themselves. Which is great. The more power the surfer has the better companies with viable products will do.

it sure is if it reaches past any lame PPS :2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

IMO PPS is a waste of time, it's a quick cash grab and unless you are a spammy faggot you will almost always make more money on a revshare.

Even if say after 12 months from now banks do decide to close more programs down including those you are promoting, that's still 12 potential months to collect rebills vs. a PPS.

Why would companies offer PPS to begin with unless they were making more in the long run?!

If you want to promote shady cross sale shit - use PPS

If you promote real/solid websites - you don't think your average revshare rate is worth more than their PPS payout?

I have numerous members that have been billing for YEARS....both as an affiliate and as a paysite... don't you have that on Twistys??? Why would you risk those types of recurring subscriptions vs. a BS PPS payout? :uhoh

Time to fire your affiliate site manager :thumbsup

Namely those guys above your qoute. Wasnt talking about you at all. You know what your doing and are intelligent. They didnt read his thread thoroughly and just wanted to bash.

Thanks Man! I appreciate it :thumbsup

Oh okay, makes sense now.

boils down to if the revshare isn't giving you on average $30 or more a sale then going with PPS is an easy choice. Just comes down to what your traffic is making on sites.

Sure it's great that the surfer has that much power... but it really sucks for guys like us who try to give there members there money's worth... only thing is chances are they will be back and stay a member :thumbsup

I only have 1 revshare adult sponsor left and its only because they have awesome content and don't offer PPS. If they did, I would have switched to PPS. Trust no-one in todays economy.
WG

In my mind...that would mean I would have to make a shitload of new sales every month to try and keep my income at the level it has to be. You're not leaving any room for the unexpected at all with PPS.

What if the main sites you do PPS with have a bad month in sales?

Or worse yet...in 2002 for instance, I was involved in a pretty bad auto accident. Neck broken, both arms broken, in ICU for a solid week...in the hospital for an entire month. Came out wearing full arm casts and a hard neck brace.

But guess what? My money kept right on rolling in thanks to the fact that I always did revshare.

And that was AFTER I had already seen a lot worse stuff go down than what is happening now. For instance: Paypal pulling out, Amex pulling out, different billers going out of business, etc. Far worse than what's happening now.

But I didn't let ANY of that affect my business plan. I'm focused like an arrow. And still do all revshare except for the few that don't offer it.

Just saying...doing all PPS is taking a lot bigger risk than revshare ever is. Hell, as far as I know adult is the only business that you get the opportunity to make money for years off of a sale. It's crazy good money, and for me it would be insane not to go revshare. Especially when it's 50% of the damn sale!

NO other industry does that.

I could literally stop right now, and keep making money for years to come. Of course I don't promote one or two programs...I promote over 400 programs. And after 13 years it adds up. Just sayin'...to me PPS is a "get rich quick" scheme.

I'd have to have over 400 programs go bust tomorrow to take me out of the game. Highly unlikely. But with PPS all that has to happen is one unforeseen circumstance and you would be in a lot of trouble financially.

With how much harder it is to make a new sale in the current economy, I am very thankful that I have usually promoted revshare.

No shit! I'm thankful everyday that I did so. All my buddies were doing PPS and bragging about the money while I was slowly building my little revshare "empire" over the years. A lot of those guys are long gone. I'm still here. :)

Don't you know by now that this industry never thinks about tomorrow... and I mean that in so many ways!!!!

i just saw people stop rebilling hard last year across the board. thus mostly now pps. i have no hard on for either side. the new economic situation had thrown most old theories out the window.

Well, like every other business that we refer to as an "industry"...it really is made up of a lot of individual people. Each with their own thought patterns on how to make money and live their life. So no, I think what you mean to say is that probably half the folks in this biz don't do the same things to plan for the future that the other half think is the right thing. Who the fuck knows who's right or who's wrong? I only know I think I'm right. lol

And you have a great point there. This time around it's a bad economy in play. And that normally wouldn't stop a guy from spending 30 bucks a month...vices always do well during a recession. But when a guy is paying 30 bucks a month to rebill to a site...and then his buddy laughs at him and shows him how to get the entire members area for free. Well, then that 30 dollars means that guy can buy a few more beers on the weekend. :(

So yeah, I've seen the rebills drop like flies too. But it's still good enough for me not to switch to PPS. I have a bad feeling that before this year is over...Claudia-Marie's site is going to become my biggest money earner and end up dwarfing my affiliate income. If you'd told me that two years ago I would have said you were crazy.