$50 pps.

I've been revshare all the way for as long as I've been an affiliate. More money in the long run, and it's always been my sense that PPS outfits are more likely to screw my surfers, making them less likely to buy something via one of my sites next time.

However, in recent months the recurring billing stats have been just brutal -- I'm not getting much payoff from my revshare sales. Combine that with all the outfits who close their affiliate programs and keep all the rebills, and it's starting to look like I should do more PPS.

LOL, you guys are idiots.

Read his fucking post people.

Shap was and still is a huge affiliate, he is considering changing over HIS affiliate accounts with other programs to PPS.

FFS.

While you're laughing out loud at all of us idiots...I'd like to say that this is what we are all responding to:
He posed a hypothetical question FIRST, and then gave some possible reasons and then asked for everyone else's thoughts.

Not sure what post you are reading.

I usually prefer revshare, but some sites that offer trials (look at fuzebox's post) I don't make much money on revshare when compared to pps.

RevShare FTW. PPS is for scammers.

That's not true. I promoted Nasty Dollars for years. Wish to God it had been revshare back when Milf Hunter first came out. Jesus...50+ signups a day every day back then.

Anyway, they weren't "scammers" they were just smart enough not to let us affiliates continue to make money for nothing past the initial sale. :( I'd still be living off those rebills from 8 years ago.

Not many revshare programs do the kind of volume the big PPS programs do. When you are paying out the most for traffic/joins you are taking more risk for more rewards..

Yeah but 8 years ago a surfer didn't sign up to a site and cancel before he even knows what the members area looks like :disgust

I still prefer revshare as well. You make money and I make money. There ought to be more stability in this model. That said if a sponsor does kill its affiliate program and keep all the rebills for themselves I think you need to call them on it. Find out who the owners are and make sure their ability to open anything on the internet under their name is severely damaged for the next decade. It's one thing close up shop on a PPS program, it's another to close down a revshare program, still process the rebills, and then pocket the affiliates cut.

..... +1

not sure, don`t know really

You obviously have never met me. It's a shame you think that. If ever you attend a show or visit Toronto or Bahamas let me know. I'll take you out to dinner and we'll have a talk. I'm more than happy to share my thoughts on the biz and the reasons for the decisions we make and the direction we are going in.

Btw this goes for anyone. We are an open book. Anyone who wants to get together Face to Face let me know :thumbsup

Thank you! There are a number of things happening that are making it very difficult for companies to stay in business. Any company not managing their finances properly is no doubt having trouble surviving. I said this a few weeks ago you have to try this like a biz in 2010 or you will be out of business. Budgeting and being smart with your money is one of the most important things you have to do. We've had people approach us to acquire them and I'm shocked and saddened by how poorly they manage their business (in some cases these are companies many of you think are well run companies).

I agree. It's a shame how this is happening.

It amazes me I mention us discussing going mostly to PPS (discussing not doing LOL) and everyone assumes I'm talking about companies with high rape your surfer pps programs. That isn't at all what I'm referring to. I'm referring to PPS vs REVS in general for the companies you currently promote.

Shady billing practices have taught those who truly enjoy porn how to protect themselves. Which is great. The more power the surfer has the better companies with viable products will do.

it sure is if it reaches past any lame PPS :2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

IMO PPS is a waste of time, it's a quick cash grab and unless you are a spammy faggot you will almost always make more money on a revshare.

Even if say after 12 months from now banks do decide to close more programs down including those you are promoting, that's still 12 potential months to collect rebills vs. a PPS.

Why would companies offer PPS to begin with unless they were making more in the long run?!

If you want to promote shady cross sale shit - use PPS

If you promote real/solid websites - you don't think your average revshare rate is worth more than their PPS payout?

I have numerous members that have been billing for YEARS....both as an affiliate and as a paysite... don't you have that on Twistys??? Why would you risk those types of recurring subscriptions vs. a BS PPS payout? :uhoh

Time to fire your affiliate site manager :thumbsup

Namely those guys above your qoute. Wasnt talking about you at all. You know what your doing and are intelligent. They didnt read his thread thoroughly and just wanted to bash.

Thanks Man! I appreciate it :thumbsup

Oh okay, makes sense now.

boils down to if the revshare isn't giving you on average $30 or more a sale then going with PPS is an easy choice. Just comes down to what your traffic is making on sites.

Sure it's great that the surfer has that much power... but it really sucks for guys like us who try to give there members there money's worth... only thing is chances are they will be back and stay a member :thumbsup

I only have 1 revshare adult sponsor left and its only because they have awesome content and don't offer PPS. If they did, I would have switched to PPS. Trust no-one in todays economy.
WG

In my mind...that would mean I would have to make a shitload of new sales every month to try and keep my income at the level it has to be. You're not leaving any room for the unexpected at all with PPS.

What if the main sites you do PPS with have a bad month in sales?

Or worse yet...in 2002 for instance, I was involved in a pretty bad auto accident. Neck broken, both arms broken, in ICU for a solid week...in the hospital for an entire month. Came out wearing full arm casts and a hard neck brace.

But guess what? My money kept right on rolling in thanks to the fact that I always did revshare.

And that was AFTER I had already seen a lot worse stuff go down than what is happening now. For instance: Paypal pulling out, Amex pulling out, different billers going out of business, etc. Far worse than what's happening now.

But I didn't let ANY of that affect my business plan. I'm focused like an arrow. And still do all revshare except for the few that don't offer it.

Just saying...doing all PPS is taking a lot bigger risk than revshare ever is. Hell, as far as I know adult is the only business that you get the opportunity to make money for years off of a sale. It's crazy good money, and for me it would be insane not to go revshare. Especially when it's 50% of the damn sale!

NO other industry does that.

I could literally stop right now, and keep making money for years to come. Of course I don't promote one or two programs...I promote over 400 programs. And after 13 years it adds up. Just sayin'...to me PPS is a "get rich quick" scheme.

I'd have to have over 400 programs go bust tomorrow to take me out of the game. Highly unlikely. But with PPS all that has to happen is one unforeseen circumstance and you would be in a lot of trouble financially.

With how much harder it is to make a new sale in the current economy, I am very thankful that I have usually promoted revshare.

No shit! I'm thankful everyday that I did so. All my buddies were doing PPS and bragging about the money while I was slowly building my little revshare "empire" over the years. A lot of those guys are long gone. I'm still here. :)

Don't you know by now that this industry never thinks about tomorrow... and I mean that in so many ways!!!!

i just saw people stop rebilling hard last year across the board. thus mostly now pps. i have no hard on for either side. the new economic situation had thrown most old theories out the window.

Well, like every other business that we refer to as an "industry"...it really is made up of a lot of individual people. Each with their own thought patterns on how to make money and live their life. So no, I think what you mean to say is that probably half the folks in this biz don't do the same things to plan for the future that the other half think is the right thing. Who the fuck knows who's right or who's wrong? I only know I think I'm right. lol

And you have a great point there. This time around it's a bad economy in play. And that normally wouldn't stop a guy from spending 30 bucks a month...vices always do well during a recession. But when a guy is paying 30 bucks a month to rebill to a site...and then his buddy laughs at him and shows him how to get the entire members area for free. Well, then that 30 dollars means that guy can buy a few more beers on the weekend. :(

So yeah, I've seen the rebills drop like flies too. But it's still good enough for me not to switch to PPS. I have a bad feeling that before this year is over...Claudia-Marie's site is going to become my biggest money earner and end up dwarfing my affiliate income. If you'd told me that two years ago I would have said you were crazy.

It is not just the economy making people tighten their belts, but the contraction of the consumer credit markets. A site membership is a small indulgence and a lot of SpookyCash site members were perfectly happy to continue paying monthly, but their credit cards were turned off or their limits were slashed, as the banks paid themselves bonuses with our tax dollars. I believe the customers are probably telling the truth on this because I had my own primary credit card frozen the day before Xmas by BofA and I know my card was in good standing and I'd been their customer for years.

Got a spare bedroom? :winkwink:

As has been said many times (by Robbie for sure just the other day) this is the perfect storm. The glut of content doesn't help, the pirates don't help, the problems with high risk processing don't help, the credit crunch doesn't help.

There are still plenty of people out there that would love to pay for a membership (despite knowing full well that they can get it for free) but have credit issues ... whether their own fault or through clamp downs.

Except that you're not taking into account the fact that the PPS payout is much larger. You're just taking the same payout stretched across several months. If the main sites you do PPS with have a bad month in sales, you just don't blow all your money, lol.

Like I said early in this thread, revshare vs. pps for me has nothing to do with "the long run" or "money over time" or whatever, and everything to do with $ per member. Yes I have members rebilling for years too, but that doesn't change the fact that I average under $30 per 50% revshare sponsor, and under $25 if they use trials. It doesn't matter how you stretch those revshare rebills out, it's a very easy formula of lifetime earnings divided by lifetime sales. I can do a lot more with that money up front, like scale it into even more money.

:2 cents:

And since I am sure you have extremely targeted traffic I'm also afraid it's a sign of the times

I suppose everyone's experiences are different. Mine stretch out over years and I made a lot more money in that time than the guys who took the PPS. I also chose "no trial" options everytime I was given the opportunity to.

As far as the money up front making me money...well, as I said l made a lot of money in revshare. Matter of fact...made enough to buy a lot of property and also put a nice chunk in the stock market. Seemed like a good thing to do at the time. Lost my ass big time. lol

When you're making several mortgage payments on commercial properties that no longer have tenants because their little businesses went out of business...AND the property is underwater and you owe more than it's worth so you can't sell it...well, then trying to take my porn money and invest it in the "mainstream" world no longer looks like I was a genius. :(

I had to divest myself of all that stuff and ended up losing over 3/4 million dollars by the time the bloodbath was over on the real estate. But I had no choice or it would be draining my money every month to the ground paying the mortgages (the rent to tenants of course paid it before and even made a nice little profit 4 years ago).

So now I don't even THINK about doing stuff outside of porn. Not at least until this economy turns itself around. Though I do wish I still had enough extra money to buy real estate NOW. I'd buy every damn thing I could at rock bottom prices. Unfortunately since my affiliate revenue stream is steadily eroding due to not being able to make new sales to programs anymore...that ain't happening.

I guess I'm basically hanging on and riding this shit out. The things I did for the CM site have made it a money earner and it truly has been recession-proof. Thank God!

Obviously I count on rebills for my own paysites (although 100% revshare is different than 50%), and I send a lot of traffic to other programs, about half of which goes to revshare programs (mostly because that's all they offer). Some do retain better than others, but if a program is going to offer me $35 today on a trial signup (and many do, without shady xsells or tricks even), I'm not going to argue.

My thinking is...if they offer $35 on a trial, they ARE monetizing that in some way that you might not agree with. Got to be some kind of x-sell or some way they are making money off of that trial. Especially in today's world where (as you pointed out yourself) people don't seem to rebill as much.

I have always taken some of both PPS and revshare depending on the program, traffic source, quality of product ect. I think the programs we do revshare with will stay that way as I have always seen them as long term partners and I think they will be around for a long time to come.

I like to have a mixture of PPS and Rev share in amongst the sites I promote. For bigger more 'normal' hardcore and basic niches I tend to go PPS (such as with Max Cash and with Hookup Bucks dating). However, when I am doing 'real' fetishes and real micro niche then I like finding the revshare programs through CCBill.

Exactly the way I see it. Was having trouble putting it into words but +1.

I dont need to have it over time to better manage my funds. I can do more business and grow alot quicker if I have the money now and also more overall of it. The ONLY perk I could see these days to doing revshare is if you dont trust yourself to invest the money properly. Which surely if your in the game this long you dont have trouble with that anyway.

I get the revshare thing 4+ years ago and further back but the last few years PPS IMO is the way to go. I only started 3.5 years ago and have grown at a very rapid pace and I attribute this alot to using PPS everywhere I can. I increase sales month after month, year after year so I dont really have any worries about sales just stopping. If sales stop then revshare isnt going to carry you forever thats for sure. At that point its time to move outta the game anyway.

I guess I just dont think I would have had the funds to reinvest so quickly with doing revshare. Ive invested large amounts back into the business through buying sites, links, content, adding employees, scripts, etc etc etc and revshare I just dont feel i would have had those options considering i started with 100 in my bank account.

I dunno, nobody is going to agree but I reckon healthy debate cant hurt. :)

another edit** lol. I do have about 25 percent revshare and I think if I seen those rebills going up month after month then I would be like hmmm, maybe I shoudl do some more of this. Fact is that rebill amount stays the same or has even gone down some in the last year especially even though overall new sales have gone up a good amount. Just tells me if there was ever a time to drop revshare it would be now more then ever.

There's not a lot that I won't agree with :1orglaugh

There are plenty of ways for a sponsor to monetize a signup which does not translate into the 50% revshare payout. I'm happy leaving that to them and taking my comission.