well it's completely understandable that you might want to sling mud on someones face and then not answer any questions when confronted with the facts. Seems to me when that has happened in reverse with nats , you guys have shit a brick sideways.:2 cents:

So point me out where i am wrong , i will make it very simple.

Did you get the months adspace you paid for ?

When your ad was pulled , were you currently paying for it or was your payment LATE ?

Does nats offer its software for free to customers who dont pay you ?

Does nats pull licenses of customers who don't pay ?

Do you think it would be a fair statement to say "do not do business with TMM" if you pulled my license for refusing to pay ?



p.s. did you ever found out who hacked into the NATS admin and stole your customers data slowly without you noticing using one of your admins usernames ? was there a criminal investigation ? i am hoping there was because i'm pretty sure you must report all crimes to the police, and i would assume because the criminal stole data from many different nats sponsors, it would be a fairly large investigation. I realise these things take time , maybe they are still investigating , or maybe they are leaving you guys in the dark because it was one of your admins usernames that actually did the hacking ? an update would be cool

As I've told you in the past I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. You take one little piece that is factual then draw all of your own conclusions from that and insist that they are therefore true also. It's a waste of my time.

I'm just reading all this from a distance, but your OP did make me ask myself *why* you even started this thread? I would have thought you were professional enough to chalk it down to a bad business decision and get on with it. Usually when threads like this are started it's either the thread starter is has a lower standing than the offender and wants to alert the masses to something wrong with a larger enterprise, or the two sides in question are of equal size and need to do a cock dual in public (you and oyster have done this in the past).

Just my :2 cents: in what is is perplexing in this whole shebang...

The thread was started because he's basically trying to extort money from us and I think that's something people here should be aware of. It's really as simple as that.

Whether he makes a dollar a day or a million dollars a day has nothing to do with it, as it shouldn't.

i made it very simple yes or no questions so as to avoid any confusion . I didn't insist on anything , i draw my conclusions on the facts presented to me as anyone does. You always seem to insist the facts are wrong but dont post anything to help anyone share that opinion.

Did you pay for and recieve one months adspace ?
by your own admission this seems to be the case.

Did your ad get pulled before or after you didn't pay ?
by your post it suggests your ad was pulled only after you didn't pay, something i would assume you would also do if one of your customers stopped paying.

Did nats get hacked ?
posted evidence on gfy suggests many sponsors did have information stolen by means of a hacked nats admin username, if this evidence is incorrect and your customers were lying then by all means tell us. If it is correct then a crime was committed and i assume you filed charges to protect your customers, an update on the criminal investigation to your customers and future customers would be nice. Was a third party investigation ever launched ? after all it was one of your admin usernames used to access the data right ?, how do you know an employee wasn't involved, a purely internal investigation seems rather silly when an internal account was used to steal data. If "joe" is stealing my customers mailboxes and i ask "joe" to investigate it , what do you think "joe" would say ?

As I've told you in the past I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. You take one little piece that is factual then draw all of your own conclusions from that and insist that they are therefore true also. It's a waste of my time.

that is a pretty childish response john. :2 cents:

For the record , i am not out to "get you" , you always seem so defensive when asked anything. I think nats is a great piece of software, it always suprises me when the "voice" for nats conveys the opposite message the software does. You call others out then get angry when you are asked about the facts, like you didnt just come on a forum to discuss something and nobody has the right to ask you anything. If you don't want questions , don't start threads like this.:2 cents:

I've answered plenty of people's questions. I'm just not bothering with you.

My apologies if you explained how he tried to extort money from TMM in the thread, but I skipped over much of the posts, but the OP didn't deal with him trying to extort more money from you.

It's strange why Smokey brings up again the security breach at TMM, and equally strange why you tried to slam that toilet lid closed again. You know that I know that there was much sitting on that toilet before anything came out, or flushed as it were. But let sleeping turds lie I say.

However, I have nothing against your company or you neither - I love nats and it does me good business. I just don't like (well understand really) how you front that on the forums with your posts - this thread being one of them.

I've worked with many of the big guys, and seen many deals go titsup. I've never yet seen though anyone calling out the other for a tistup sour deal like you did in this thread.

It wasn't a matter of a "deal going bad". It was just an ad buy which we were forced into if we wanted our clients listed. I dealt with that. It was the fact that when we decided to end it he indicated he'd be bashing us and he proceeded to do so. Basically, if we pay him he'll say good things about us, if we don't pay him he's going to say bad things about us. That's extortion plain and simple. That is where my issue lies. It has nothing to do with feeling fucked out of $150 or anything of the sort. That is just another example of people on GFY reading whatever they'd like into things and stating it as fact. It happens constantly around here.

The security issue isn't going to be discussed in detail publicly as there is still ongoing related litigation. The only thing I'll say is that yes, there was a security issue years ago (as I've said many times) and we've become a much better & stronger company as a result of it.

I'm not sure what you mean by fronting that on the forums. I speak my mind and the truth. Some people can't handle that and would rather have everything sugar coated. That's not how I do things. Some people simply prefer to tell everyone what they want to hear. I find it to be a horrible approach to things. We've gotten far more business as a result of it than we've lost.

I'm not going to let someone (even as insignificant in this industry as Daizzzy might be) tell us that if we pay him he'll say good things about us and if we don't he'll bash us every chance he gets and not do anything about it. That's why this thread is here.

umm ok then.. am i still allowed to use the software or will i be punished now ? :Oh crap seems silly to have a personal vendetta against me of all people. ( i.e. not on your radar and of no concern to you)

I did business with Daizzzy and everything was fine for me - I had no problems. Good luck.

Of course. I know you like to believe otherwise, but I don't do anything out of spite. Nor do I have any personal vendetta against you. Even if I did it wouldn't affect you using our software.

I just find arguing with you to be an absolute waste of time similar to arguing with someone about politics or religion. It doesn't matter what I say or how many questions I answer, you have your thoughts, theories, beliefs, and opinions, and they are not going to change.

furry muff - I wasn't reading those threads, so I had no idea of the backthreads on the issue.

I thought you won that at the end of April and it was finally closed (after the other party trying to appeal/lost)??? Is there more in you claiming damages? Good luck with that if so, cos I very much doubt the person has anything to cough up...

I never realized he was so disliked.

"forced" into , it seems you agreed to it ..

by "dealt with it" you mean you agreed to advertise on his site. you werent forced into anything. and as a matter of fact are there nats programs listed there now? and before ? and are you currently an advertiser ?
seems to me you did the first bashing , although i could be mistaken
Do not do business with Daizzzy / SBD posted at 1 pm by you
Do not do business with TMM / NATS posted at 11 pm by daizzzy 10 hours later
IF he said that and you haven't posted anything to suggest he did say that, you AGREED to it, the only part you DIDN'T agree to was paying upfront for more than one month in advance.

I admit i am not a lawyer but it seems to me that theres no way in the world you wouldn't be able to tell your own clients if there was a "criminal investigation" launched and the results or progress of that criminal investigation, plain and simple. nor could it hamper any current litigation.

He informed us, and admitted in his thread, that he told us in order to list them all we'd need to buy an ad on his site. We were "forced" into buying an ad in order to have all of our clients listed.

He posted over the top negative comments in the v4 upgrade thread about us 5 minutes after indicating to me on ICQ that he'd be showing us how it is now that we don't have an ad with him. This was before both threads were up and is what started things.

Again, this has nothing to do with the ad buy. As I said in my initial post, we paid for a month, we got a month. When we didn't like how he was conducting himself we decided to cancel the ad. After we canceled it he decided his opinion of our software was going to change and he was going to bash us since we were not paying him. That is what the issue is & this thread is about.

I don't discuss issues which relate to ongoing litigation. I'm not going to comment on it beyond what I've already said.

And that for me is enough - I never even entered the V4 thread, so I was not privvy to info.

However, when litigation allows, I (and I think many others) would like an open statement as to the result of any criminal investigation into the nats break-in. Commenting on ongoing litigation is never a good idea, but litigation ends at some point. I'm sure though when time and circumstances permit, you'll make public the outcome of your investigation, as it was something that did affect a lot of people.

oh please..

There is no litigation. IMHO, it's just a made up excuse to not comment on the security breach. That whole break-in story is covered in so much bullshit, i don't know how people still do business with TMM. John is obviously one insecure, batshit crazy motherfucker.

You really are obsessed with me. It's kind of cute actually. :)

Who are you anyway? Are you even in this industry? What sites do you own or are they super duper top secret?

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...oo-much-media/

Considering that is less than a month old I'd say it's not a made up excuse.

Again, are you even in this industry? What sites do own/run/work for?

That's not true - there was quite a lot of litigation going on between TMM and someone (forget the name, would have to checkmy bookmarks) who tried to hide behind some defense of journalist right to privacy or whatever it is, but she went on spouting off tidbits picked up here and there from forums to make a blog about how bad TMM were. It was pathetic and TMM were right to sue for libel. They won, she appealed, they won the appeal. I don't think any damages were awarded though, but they were 100% right to go against that person as what they were saying was wrong and based on here say and was damaging to the TMM business.

Don't join the masses that are spoon fed a few tidbits and who makes up their own mind and spouts off behind the "security" of a computer screen against a business. That is just dumb.

The facts as stated are not in doubt. What litigation at the moment prevents, is knowing what the outcome of the criminal investigation into the initial hack comes/came to. I'm pretty sure (hope) law enforcement agencies or private investigators were involved to find out who hacked their database and after all the dust settles in a few months or year, we'll find out the details of what happened. THere were too many peole involved to not disclose stuff - whether publicly or privately - to those that were involved.

So shut your trap on your by-standing yelling and calm the flames.

OK, you beat me to the reply :mad:
but my clif notes were not too far off what the report was - libel/defamation, blog/boards.

Don't sue me for inaccuracies due to holes in my brain, mkay :thumbsup

You should worry less about other people and focus more on fixing your software.

:2 cents:

Who is this MDCQ who seems to have sold his account to Daizzy for what was left of the $150?

Now that's a theory. MDCQ = Diazzzy. I'm thinking you might be right since he won't actually say what he does in this industry.

Im just curious, NATS stores user account information to the websites under the programs run by NATS? I thought everything was run on the program owners server, and it would only check back with nats servers for maybe a license check or something.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. Could you elaborate?

You are correct in that all data exists on the client's server, not ours. But I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.

Hey John, this doesn't worth a drama. Just buy an ad spot at FHGStore.com are everything will be fine :winkwink:

You're doing it wrong, you have to say "or else!", LOL :)

No, NATS does not store personal client stuff like that in the TMM database, but prior to this there was a a security problem:

The NATS admin password (the account/password they use to verify/modify your setup) was stored on their servers. Their servers were allegedly hacked and the password for many installs got into the wrong hands. This meant the miscreants could at will and automatically poll many nats installs for things over the web, like email addresses and stats etc.

Once TMM were made aware of this fact and things became known on the boards of what had happened, the security hole responsible was found and subsequently closed in all installs of NATS.

Hats off to TMM for closing the breach once the security hole became public - the problem lies in people/person (there were many, but one went too far), that tried to use this knowledge and run into the clouds to try and create a smoking gun situation.

In any case, this security hole no longer exists and all installations have been patched to prevent future re-occurrences.

Hope this clarifies

--
edit to add

this is like any single 3rd party software install.... nothing in the world in computing is safe - as soon as you have many installs of a 3rd party software, adn that software is the leader, you will always have someone trying to find security holes in it to exploit. Just ask Microsfot how this feels....

If you want security-free software, design your own that no-one knows the source to and you *may* be relatively free from problems. Desing that software badly though and you'll be worse off!!

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

deposit monies or else!

+1

Why would TMM remotely care about Daizzzy and SBD? :2 cents:

Hey Mutt, yo know I love you, but comparing Bryan (BoosHawg) to this tool is like comparing... I don't even know what kind of far fetched ridiculous comparison I can make :1orglaugh

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You shouldnt worry about anything here, since you arent even IN this biz.
Go get your brokeass surfer face to the forums that share paysite passwords.

Just so people don't forget.

Your back says Dude. Your back says sweet. Now get back to work!