PHP question - Use framework or not?

[DirtyRider]

I wanted to do some programming for a site, just basically dealing handling galleries.

I was really curious if you guys are using any framework like zend and why someone would want to use it or not use it?

I've read about the template and cache features which interests me. I'd like to hear some opinions if its better to use a framework or not.

Thanks in advance

[Brujah]

Just handling galleries, a framework might be a bit overkill, especially Zend but I really like CodeIgniter myself for being useful yet getting out of my way if I need it to.

[bzent]

I really like CodeIgniter and Yii.

[BestXXXPorn]

There's not a single framework I like... they're all bloated and inefficient IMO...

[DirtyRider]

Cool, i will look check CodeIgniter for sure.

Can you please let me know why you think zend would be a bit overkill? Is it because of the load on the server?

[DirtyRider]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

There's not a single framework I like... they're all bloated and inefficient IMO...

Yeah i was really hoping someone would convince me as to why they are good. Some sites that I've seen use frameworks in the past seem to load a bit slow.

Why would you say they are inefficient?

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by DirtyRider

Yeah i was really hoping someone would convince me as to why they are good. Some sites that I've seen use frameworks in the past seem to load a bit slow.

Why would you say they are inefficient?

For the same reasons I'm not keen on prebuilt scripts :P Top 4:

1) Any time a security exploit is found in the framework you've adopted, it's open season on YOU until it's fixed.

2) Your framework evolves at its own pace... not yours. Good luck getting a framework to adopt something you need on your schedule ;)

3) Lack of complete control of your source. If you don't like the way something in the framework operates you COULD change it but then what about all those updates? You're forever merging sources... lame.

4) The framework has to account for everything all the time. Frameworks generally create an abstracted layer of logic which, by its very nature, incurs additional overhead.

Can anyone name a major player in mainstream that uses a framework they didn't write themselves?

[bzent]

PlugRush does use Cake.

[LoveSandra]

bump 4 help

[quantum-x]

Always developed my own

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by DirtyRider

Cool, i will look check CodeIgniter for sure.

Can you please let me know why you think zend would be a bit overkill? Is it because of the load on the server?

I haven't used Zend and I'm using the word "overkill" based on the learning curve required to start using it and based on what I've read about the framework compared to CodeIgniter. With CI, I was able to roll out an application quickly and it's not bloated or slow. The documentation is fantastic.

http://codeigniter.com/user_guide/toc.html

[borked]

To build your own basic framework doesn't take a lot of effort, just some time, but once built it is very very lightweight and can be bloated up as much as you want depending on the job.

I'm all for getting a core working home-built framework and then using that to build on each client's needs.

Just me.

--edit guess why it's called a framework - it's the structure to build on top off, so why have the code to build a swimming pool if you live in Iceland, when all you need is the code to build a nice insulated house with open fire...

[DirtyRider]

Hey, just want to say thanks to everyone that has replied. This thread has helped a lot.

I just really wanted to try something new and wasn't sure if I should waste the extra time figuring out the framework thing.

Thanks again. Any additional comments are welcome

[BestXXXPorn]

Originally Posted by borked

To build your own basic framework doesn't take a lot of effort, just some time, but once built it is very very lightweight and can be bloated up as much as you want depending on the job.

I'm all for getting a core working home-built framework and then using that to build on each client's needs.

Just me.

--edit guess why it's called a framework - it's the structure to build on top off, so why have the code to build a swimming pool if you live in Iceland, when all you need is the code to build a nice insulated house with open fire...

This is one of the main reasons our points of view are so in line the majority of the time You appreciate the elegant solutions ;)

[Big E]

Something no one else has mentioned here - programmer portability. Go ahead and write your own framework/code/whatever, and if someone else has to work on it, they need to get up to speed, learn all the ins-and-outs, etc.

With a well-known framework (CodeIgniter is best IMO), another programmer can jump right into your code without too many problems.

Not a big deal if you're planning on writing everything yourself for the rest of your life, but something to think about.

[bzent]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

1) Any time a security exploit is found in the framework you've adopted, it's open season on YOU until it's fixed.

Alternative way to look at it:
Open source code is less likely to have exploits than your own code, because thousands of programmers use/see/develop it. Sure, a site may not have the same exploits available that every other _insert framework_ site does, but I'd be willing to develop if someone sat there and wanted a crack at your site, it would be easier than finding an exploit in a framework.

Just my I don't use frameworks often, but when I do it's because they're faster to develop on and I've never had any issues with security.