this is very true and that is what i like about the law that it gives the local police the power to enforce a law that is already a federal law but the problem lies that it will also give so much racial profiling. When is the last time a federal government employee just pulled over a group of Latino looking people at 2AM to check to see if they are legal? For those that say by law they can't just pull over anyone just to check for this.. Bullshit! Cops can look at 100 cars on the road and with all the laws on the books these days could pull over 70% of them on something.

It's been on the books for years that the cops can pull you over for reasonable cause and give you the third degree.

Illegal, is still the key word.


.

Exactly, they look at 100 cars (not people) on the road and can pull you over for anything... just like that has happened to me and everyone else here. They then ask for an ID.

This is very clear in the law... profiling is not allowed already through State and Fed laws, plus this law has extra stuff in it to prevent it.

If you don't have an ID, you're breaking the law.. they then ask for Insurance and Proof of Registration. The illegal will again fail to provide proof, again breaking the law. The officer will then ask for his papers.

Before this law, he said here let me detain you, called border patrol, filed a joint paper, but 3-4 hours.. Now they arrest them, file them, and if needed border patrol picks them up from a few locations rather than random roads all over the State.

IE: Everyone gets more done.

Nothing wrong with any of this..... as you could be DUI and maybe he was just fishing for that, but found you were Illegal. Maybe it's a road check for DUI, but they nail illegals... just like at the illegal check points they nail people for DUI.

When the UA Cats changed their name for a game it was Los Gatos, meaning The Cats.

I just think it's silly that they use half and half. If you are going to recognize and support the culture, just translate the entire name for the game.

wildcats suck G0 DEVILS :winkwink:

Prepare for a first then. ;-)

My problem with the law is simple; this is NOT an area where I want states to be allowed to create and enforce their own laws. If you are for more stringent enforcement of existing immigration laws, I think you should be against individual states being given too much rope in this area of jurisprudence.

Why?

The value of federal preemption (via the supremacy clause, the dormant commerce clause, etc.), cuts both ways. By the same token that federal preemption guards against a state passing a law that might be too restrictive, it prevents a state from passing a law that might be too permissive with respect to immigration enforcement.

Let's suppose this new law survives a preemption challenge from the federal government (which is pretty unlikely, but possible) -- what if a few years down the road another state (let's say New Mexico for example) decides that it wants to simply open the length of its southern border, citing the Arizona law as precedent that states have the requisite authority to create and enforce their own immigration policy?

Now, it's quite possible that this wouldn't work and the NM law would be voided even if the AZ law had survived the earlier preemption challenge, because the AZ law comports with federal law where the hypothetical NM law would contradict federal law. You can rest assured of one thing, though; both the state and the feds, in each case, will spend a lot of money (money that they don't really have) to argue it all out in court.

The impending legal wrangling is not a desirable outcome, IMO, and our legislature had to know it was inevitable once the bill was signed into law. I really wish the legislature had not decided to set itself up for a court battle like this; there were other ways to go about putting pressure on the federal government to enforce existing immigration law, ways that would not have resulted in such public turmoil, and that would not have spawned a (likely doomed) legal battle for the state, which is already struggling financially.

Then there's the process of the legal challenge itself. Given that the court is likely to hold that the feds are raising a substantial issue, and have a significant chance of prevailing at trial, the court is very likely going to issue a temporary restraining order against enforcement of the law, pending full adjudication. That TRO will likely remain in place throughout the appeals process, regardless of which side wins the opening round, which means we get to spend some indeterminate amount of time with a law on the books that is getting people all riled up, despite the fact that it isn't even enforceable yet.

I don't think the law is "racist;" clearly some of its supporters certainly are, and just as clearly some of its opponents are racist, judging by statements that have come from both the 'for' and 'against' camps. It's just that I have serious issues with ANY law that has such enormous potential for unintended consequences, results in wasteful spending on easily avoided litigation and gets people all worked up without leading to any actionable solution to the problem it is purportedly trying to solve.

So that's it... no accusations of racism, nobody who disagrees with me is being called an idiot, just a simple (and I like to think both rational and valid) set of concerns.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Why do you think this isn't an area for the States to be? This is how the entire Country is setup.

I'm for States that use the Constitution to evoke the rights that they have when the Federal Gov fails to do it's job. The State of AZ has been screaming for help for years and has greatly been ignored as chaos happens.

The State does have this authority... and much more.


I think AZ doing this is exactly what was needed to bitch slap the fed into finally recognizing our problem.

However, even if the Fed rules the AZ is not legal, AZ can still enforce the law that they have on the books, the Fed has no power to change this at the State level. The question will be then, will the Fed fund the troops or will the State. The State can force the troops here, but they can't force the Fed to pay for them.

If the Courts win, it will go on the ballot and be voted in next year, then they will have hell stopping it at any level, being that the people actually want this - it will go through.

What a bunch of fucking idiots - blasting a sports team for something the state government did. It doesn't matter what side your on, that's just stupid. The Suns had nothing to do with this either way.

burritos

My frustration is towards the Owner, not the team members.

I feel sorry for those few team members that had no choice and they agree with the law but were forced to follow an idea that they don't believe in.

I feel sorry for all the fans that have to put up with bullshit like this too. They came to watch a ball game, not the owner force his political view on his players.

Personally I feel the team should be removed from AZ all together. If that could happen, the players would have stood up to the Owner but because it can't happen, they laid down and took it up the ass.

There was nothing in this guys statement that suggested support for illegal immigration.

He simply said a) the federal govt has failed to address the issue b) the AZ law calls in to question equal rights and protection c) the law will adversely affect AZ's economy.

What exactly do you take exception to? If anything it seems you should agree with the majority of this.

He probably doesn't support illegal immigration... however saying it calls equal rights and protection into question means he didn't read the law when he made the statement.

a) true, which is why the State did it. Each State has that power and right to do this and much more.
b) false, it has protections built into the law, plus other state and fed laws protect from that.
c) false, historically they have very little impact on the economy, it's not our first. And most of the sectors the immigrant rights groups are boycotting is a heavy Latino worker base. The backfire is on the way.

Don't forget, he changed the uniform... in protest.

I'm not sure the protections go far enough. The AZ House seems to agree as they've proposed the following amendments:

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/con...-sb-1070-.html

Have you considered that he may have been referring to the impact from reduced _legal_ immigration to AZ? I'm a legal alien. 13% of your census completing population is foreign.

I'm definitely going to think twice about visiting if I'm going to get shaken down by abusive cops.

No, he changed it in support. Of _legal_ immigrants. The Suns GM was born in Lebanon. His star player is from Canada. They've got other internationals. All legal.

That's very possible... but also is a great example of 'why' the law is good. It's not something they're taking laying down, this is rather serious shit.



I have several legal alien friends, they aren't really worried. They could and sometimes have been stopped by Border Patrol at the check points, asked for ID, and off they go.

It's when you don't have your ID - then it's a problem. It makes no difference what you look like.

Do you not visit any other Countries? They all ask for your ID followed by your Passport pretty much all over the world. Some Countries if you don't have and ID or Passport on you at all times, it's instant jail.

Like in Mexico.


Yes, because Legal Immigration is in question.... Hellllllooooooo

That's how politically correct marketing teams take advantage of something they know they can't stand up for and actually speak out against because it will create hate for them.

So you do the next best thing, you sugar coat it.

Perhaps they should have got the law right before the governor signed it?

I think you're missing it. This is about AZ creating a law that leaves open discrimination against a very large (but still minority) population, that's it.

You don't have to show your ID to any cop that wants to fuck with you. Why should I?

Let's all be honest. Racial profiling has been happening for years. If you are white in an all black neighborhood you can get pulled over. If you are black or mexican in an all white neighborhood people have been pulled over. Police have anyways been able to pull you over for some lame ass reason.

AZ is trying to crack down on illegals. So pulling the race card is not going to work. Any race can be here illegally. I remember not to long ago they caught a group of illegals trying to cross the border. They were from Mexican, China, Panama, Sweden and I think Spain. The point is that it is scary that anyone can walk across the border. I really do not care where they are from. The fact the border is not protected should worry people. Not everyone that crosses wants to come here for a better life. :2 cents:

Fuck that, I'm not going to leave my liberties at the AZ border.

How about this?

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. — The Tucson and Flagstaff city councils voted Tuesday to sue Arizona over its tough new immigration law, citing concerns about enforcement costs and negative effects on the state's tourism industry.

It's not a law yet, that is why it is being changed... and to be able to make changes, you need to here what the problems are.

It doesn't leave anything open with discrimination. Besides the law covering those factors, we have federal and state laws that cover them as well, for police officers.


I don't have a problem showing my ID.. Border Patrol has asked, Cops have asked, the Bartender has asked. What the hell do I care?

It's a law to carry your ID... don't confuse what you think is liberties with reality.

Yep, hippie towns that are like 15 million dollars in the hole suing, when the people are telling them not to, when they're taking locked account funds to pay for it. Rather stupid move being that elections is coming up and they're already under fire.

Gotta love people on the outside looking in and offering their opinions. I'm in favor of the law. ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL. no matter which way you look at it. Racial profiling? Please..... if a cop is that bored, he's going to get fired sooner or later. He might do it once... he might do it twice, but an entire profession fucking around with the Hispanic population just because they now think they can? People, seriously, I'm not naive, but I think cops have better things to do than harass the shit out of Hispanics just because they think they can. There are bad apples in every profession. On the whole I think the cops in this town and this state do a superior job.

Hey... I get pulled over for any reason, a cop asks me for ID. I show it to him, I'm fine. I tell him to fuck off or just ignore him, I get a date with the silver bracelets. Not that big of a deal to say that a legal immigrant should carry their documentation with them at all times, I mean that's just logical, isn't it? My DL is with me whenever I leave the house. I gotta have it to drive. I gotta have it to use a Credit Card. I gotta have it to go to the bank. I gotta have it to get a drink (fuck even after this many years, I still get carded!), I need it just about everywhere, don't you?

Complain all you want, but until you move to Arizona and face what is happening here, keep your opinion reasonable. It's easy to play armchair quarterback, but not so easy when you have to get in the game.

I am for this law also, people against it really do not understand the underlying reasons why the mexican goverment and the democrats want this law - Its all about money and votes.
Mexicans send home about 23 BILLION us dollars a year - this is 23 billion dollars taken out of our economy and put into the mexican economy
Remittances are one of Mexico's top three sources of foreign income, along with oil and tourism, and help sustain millions of Mexican families.

votes - the dems know there is a huge hispanic population in the US and they want those votes, so they are siding on the side of the hispanics.

Immigration reform has to start in mexico, not in the US. thousands of US jobs have been sent to mexico, but it did not stem the flood of illegals, why..because the jobs pay crap, poverty wages. the mexican goverment needs to set wages, increase wages to those similar to the US and canada. They have to give their people a reason to want to stay in their own country. But they wont. There can never be open borders and laws regarding illegal aliens need to be strengthened, including import laws, untill mexico starts taking care of their own people.

Didn't you guys just spend the last year crying about how the federal government has gotten too big? How big brother is upon us? Now you want big government.

I'm not arguing the law because quite frankly, I could give a shit up here in Illinois. I just like watching people act like hypocrites.

And anyone complaining about the jerseys aren't fans of the NBA anyway. These jerseys are worn by all teams a few times a year. They are sold on every team's website. It's a marketing gimmick.

I'm a season ticket holder for the Bulls and I attend the games to watch basketball. I could care less about any jerseys or political statements. People that do are not likely fans of the team or the sport.

Nash pays much more in taxes to the state than you or most Arizona residents do. He is the star attraction on a basketball team that brings in tourism dollars and creates a lot of local job. He also runs a Children's Charity that helps kids in the Phoenix area.

Yeah, maybe he should be sent packing.

Well Nash is here legally but you are saying that he should be sent packing. So this isn't really about legal vs illegal to you, it's about whether the person agrees with you or not.

Blah, blah, blah....I realize that and my statement did not come out the way I meant it to read. I was corrected........:winkwink:

This is about illegal VS legal! I suggest you read the thread once more.....It's about the way they showed support against the new law.

The federal government should have had this type of law in place since 9-11. They have failed to enforce the laws and turned a blind eye to the growing situation. Now that the State of AZ has taken action, they want to jump and toss their :2 cents: in.
If the federal government had been doing their jobs, we would not be in this situation that we are in.
Maybe they will start doing the job they are paid to do!

if you support the new law >>>SIGN HERE<<< :) almost 80k signed

Nope, you haven't ever seen me complain about that... I'm for social care, social services, healthcare, etc..

While I support the smallest/conservative gov possible, I understand in this situation it's not an expansion of Gov, it's an expansion of protection.

It's fine, depending on what the reason is... this reason, was "clearly" in protest of the law by a person that doesn't deserve to have a word in this.

Now it's 80650

The Suns are 3-0 this year when wearing Los Suns jerseys. Maybe they should wear them more often?

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_spor...ooE5ADgOHF_8Dx

fuck that this isnt latin america

Maybe they should lose franchise rights in the State of AZ for being unpatriotic to the State and Country?

Do they put on 4th of July ones on? Xmas, maybe some gang ones to celebrate the brothers? Did they put on some hurricane jerseys for the disaster, how about some Oil protesting?

So many good causes to show support for... but politics is not one of them.

kevin johnson is throwing stones from cali so for fighting illegals we are punished we'll see how much shit talking there is in july

Your ditzy-ass Governor signed it. It's a law. It's not active, but its a law.

We all know if you're white with an American accent the cop's not going to have any "reasonable suspicion". If you've got dark skin and you've lost your wallet you're going to jail.

If you're not driving a car, loitering or committing a crime I don't think you're obligated to show ID in AZ.

Yeah this Phoenix Suns owner must be a real shitty business man if he's willing to alienate (excuse the pun) his teams racist white fans just so he can grow his share of that lucrative illegal immigrant viewership.

:1orglaugh race card shreiff busted a biz yesterday like 30 illegals false i.d. using and american social security #'s :disgust

Just build a wall already.

No, she signed the Bill - If it was a law you could enforce it already.



If you're dark skin and American and lost your wallet, you give them your SSN or DL number or Address, then you take your ticket and leave. Just like the white dude.

If you don't speak English, don't have an ID, can't produce an address, phone number, SSN number or any other documents - you will be detained, and chances are you will go to jail.



You are required by law to have an ID on you at all times... You're not obligated to show it unless they have a reason. However, you don't respond with No I won't give you my id... you ask why they need it. Then when they tell you cars have been broken in around here and I'm checking everyone, you hand your ID over.

Illegals wont hand them over because either A) They don't have one B) It's stolen information

That's in the bill as well, build more of the wall, triple layer parts and bring in 3,000 more national guard.

yup, there is plenty of money for a wall to be built eh.

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/n...inians_akcf101http://www.gilad.co.uk/storage/israe...UFNlj_3868.jpg

works for the Isreali's.

its a law it just isn't active yet

So issue bonds. Buying bonds is much better way to support this argument than signing petitions.

You "ARE" required to show ID in any State in the USA upon request by the police for any reason, at any time?.

Do you even live in America?

We have had bonds, public auctions, votes, donations, drives, state funds, fed funds, hell even minute men to help.

This didn't start this year... it's been going on for a really long time.

No you're not. In many states you don't even have to give your name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

a bond issue for the $5-8 billion dollars the wall is estimated to cost? never happen. hasn't happened, won't happen.