I think its time Arizona sees a real Day Without a Mexican

[ShellyCrash]

"A Day Without a Mexican" is a mocumentary about what would happen if all of the mexicans suddenly vanished from California.

Gay rights advocates staged a "Day without a Gay" to call attention to their plight.

Maybe it's time Arizona saw what a REAL day without a mexican might be like.

[Sly]

How exactly did the "day without a gay" go? Do all gays take on gay specific jobs that no straights would ever touch? I don't really get it.

We could do "Day without a cripple" and everybody could finally park towards the front of the Wal-Mart parking lot.

[Spunky]

Who would get the fries then?

[BIGTYMER]

I'm in Arizona and let me tell you its bad here. Real bad. Sheriff Joe is the only person doing something about it.

You can think what you want but spend a day in South Tucson and you'll see why we call it a problem.

[Agent 488]

ever seen "a day without white people"? it's a doc about the economic success of zimbabwe.

[BIGTYMER]

Go drive by the Arizona Dept. of Economic Security and see the line out the door of Mexicans trying to get free money, food stamps, and free health. It's disgusting.

[ShellyCrash]

How exactly did the "day without a gay" go? Do all gays take on gay specific jobs that no straights would ever touch? I don't really get it.

That would be "day w/ a gay". Here is Day Without-
http://daywithoutagay.wetpaint.com/

[JaneB]

Arizona does not have problem with Mexicans. It has problems with illegal aliens. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand? How fucking dense are some of you?

[Jon Oso]

Arizona does not have problem with Mexicans. It has problems with illegal aliens. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand? How fucking dense are some of you?

[ShellyCrash]

I'm in Arizona and let me tell you its bad here. Real bad. Sheriff Joe is the only person doing something about it.

You can think what you want but spend a day in South Tucson and you'll see why we call it a problem.

I'm not saying there is not a problem. I have spent my share of time in Arizona. I am afraid to drive on your roads.

It just seems like there are better ways to do things. I don't think the law needs to be changed so drastically, I think that before editing legislation they could do a better job policing the laws already in place.

If a cop / sheriff wants probable cause to investigate a business they suspect of hiring illegals they can find it w/o playing the race card or needing to change the law so it takes the race card out of play. Just look at all the tricks the DEA pulls out, employ some of those tactics here.

Christ, just sit across the street from a Home Depot parking lot and follow trucks to the jobsite. Write them a ticket for moving violation for having unseatbelted individuals in the back and follow the trail of crumbs from there.

I don't have all the answers, but we have to find a happy medium between dropping people into internment camps and bending over backwards giving handouts to a family of 6 with an anchor baby.

[Agent 488]

Arizona does not have problem with Mexicans. It has problems with illegal aliens. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand? How fucking dense are some of you?

you ever fuck a mexican?

[AlCapone]

Does this guy look familiar?

[AlCapone]

How about these guys?


Or these?

[ShellyCrash]

Arizona does not have problem with Mexicans. It has problems with illegal aliens. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand? How fucking dense are some of you?

I get that, but the laws that are being enacted compromise the rights of mexicans and hispanics in the area.

They aren't going to be stopping white people with eastern european accents and asking for papers.

[TheDoc]

If the Illegals actually took a day off the news wouldn't have anything to report.

[Caligari]

Yes great "Show me your papers" when are they creating the gulag?

[Agent 488]

[AlCapone]

I get that, but the laws that are being enacted compromise the rights of mexicans and hispanics in the area.

They aren't going to be stopping white people with eastern european accents and asking for papers.

Here is what I will be doing...

[TheDoc]

I get that, but the laws that are being enacted compromise the rights of mexicans and hispanics in the area.

They aren't going to be stopping white people with eastern european accents and asking for papers.

The laws AZ have are the same Federal laws we have.

And they don't ask for your papers.. they ask for your ID, like they do now.. and when you don't have it, they ask for your papers, just like they do now.

The difference is, they can process them now as a criminal.

[JaneB]

I get that, but the laws that are being enacted compromise the rights of mexicans and hispanics in the area.

They aren't going to be stopping white people with eastern european accents and asking for papers.

Yes they will ask a person here that is white with an accent for ID. It will probably get to the point that everyone one day will be asked to carry proof of citizenship. I don't see the big deal with that since Europe does that already and so does Mexico. Mexico does the same exact thing to white tourists.

[BIGTYMER]

I'm not saying there is not a problem. I have spent my share of time in Arizona. I am afraid to drive on your roads.

It just seems like there are better ways to do things. I don't think the law needs to be changed so drastically, I think that before editing legislation they could do a better job policing the laws already in place.

If a cop / sheriff wants probable cause to investigate a business they suspect of hiring illegals they can find it w/o playing the race card or needing to change the law so it takes the race card out of play. Just look at all the tricks the DEA pulls out, employ some of those tactics here.

Christ, just sit across the street from a Home Depot parking lot and follow trucks to the jobsite. Write them a ticket for moving violation for having unseatbelted individuals in the back and follow the trail of crumbs from there.

I don't have all the answers, but we have to find a happy medium between dropping people into internment camps and bending over backwards giving handouts to a family of 6 with an anchor baby.

I agree there has to be a better way but at this point I'm happy to see any change. Before if the cops came across an illegal they passed them over to the border patrol who would then just drop them off at the border. That illegal would just come right back! Now they are going to arrest them for trespassing.

[BIGTYMER]

Yes great "Show me your papers" when are they creating the gulag?

When a cop pulls me over the first thing he asks for is my Drivers License. Whats the big deal if the cop asks if I'm a citizen or not?

[Caligari]

Yes really its great, get rid of all the illegals so all of the legals can get shit wage day labor work and go landscape Martha Stewart's desert chalet..right.

they just made racial profiling legal so now the cops can harass anyone who looks hispanic...that's american as apple pie.

[ShellyCrash]

The laws AZ have are the same Federal laws we have.

And they don't ask for your papers.. they ask for your ID, like they do now.. and when you don't have it, they ask for your papers, just like they do now.

The difference is, they can process them now as a criminal.

Many states have vagrancy laws, where if you get stopped and you don't have ID and X amount of $$ in your pocket you can be processed.

I don't have a problem with that. I only have a problem with routing around probable cause. I see it as a slippery slope.

I don't buy that they need to change the law to better enforce immmigration when they aren't using the laws that existed previously to their full extent.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's hiring under the table- papers or no papers. Crack the fuck down, raise the penalties on these companies, buy more cops, better patrol the boarder, etc etc

Just my

[dav3]

Weird, I thought it was already a law to always have your ID with you?

[TheDoc]

Yes really its great, get rid of all the illegals so all of the legals can get shit wage day labor work and go landscape Martha Stewart's desert chalet..right.

they just made racial profiling legal so now the cops can harass anyone who looks hispanic...that's american as apple pie.

Racial profiling is what they do with illegals in mexico... then they lock them up.


The law you're bitching about is already a federal law... and racial profiling is illegal with both - which means if a Mexican was walking down the street doing nothing and a cop stops them for no reason to ask for proof of citizenship or an ID. Profiling rules have been put into the law, cop and department can be sued, job lost, and so on.

[BIGTYMER]

Yes really its great, get rid of all the illegals so all of the legals can get shit wage day labor work and go landscape Martha Stewart's desert chalet..right.

they just made racial profiling legal so now the cops can harass anyone who looks hispanic...that's american as apple pie.

There is plenty of legal Mexicans who will do the jobs that the illegals were doing.

Arizona Population: 6,595,778
Arizona Est. Illegals: 460,000

[Agent 488]

the business lobby will reverse this once their wage costs go up.

feel free to bump this in a year or two when i'm proved right.

[ShellyCrash]

When a cop pulls me over the first thing he asks for is my Drivers License. Whats the big deal if the cop asks if I'm a citizen or not?

Weird, I thought it was already a law to always have your ID with you?

When a cop pulls you over or asks for ID they have to have a reason. Your tail light was out, you were speeding, etc.

Arizona law is saying now they don't need a reason.

[TheDoc]

Many states have vagrancy laws, where if you get stopped and you don't have ID and X amount of $$ in your pocket you can be processed.

I don't have a problem with that. I only have a problem with routing around probable cause. I see it as a slippery slope.

I don't buy that they need to change the law to better enforce immmigration when they aren't using the laws that existed previously to their full extent.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's hiring under the table- papers or no papers. Crack the fuck down, raise the penalties on these companies, buy more cops, better patrol the boarder, etc etc

Just my

Federal Immigration Laws say if you're visiting the Country you must keep your Passport or Papers on you.

They are using the laws to fullest extent, so much that they are forced to use the employment laws to bust illegals to go around profiling bullshit simply because they know they're all illegals.

This law brings in 3,000 more national guard to the border... The cities have no money to get cops, the border patrol is hiring as fast as they can (largest growing job in the area) and our our State is 15 million in the hole, not hard to figure out the big reason.

[Caligari]

Racial profiling is what they do with illegals in mexico... then they lock them up.

not talking about mexico.

The law you're bitching about is already a federal law... and racial profiling is illegal with both - which means if a Mexican was walking down the street doing nothing and a cop stops them for no reason to ask for proof of citizenship or an ID. Profiling rules have been put into the law, cop and department can be sued, job lost, and so on.

wrong, Arizona has now passed legislation making it legal for a cop to stop anyone they suspect of being an illegal, meaning they can stop any person of hispanic descent even though they could be legal.

[TheDoc]

When a cop pulls you over or asks for ID they have to have a reason. Your tail light was out, you were speeding, etc.

Arizona law is saying now they don't need a reason.

That is such bullshit... it clearly, very very clearly says you must have probable cause and anti-profiling parts to it as well, making the cop directly responsible and the department.

Where do you people get this shit?

[TheDoc]

not talking about mexico.



wrong, Arizona has now passed legislation making it legal for a cop to stop anyone they suspect of being an illegal, meaning they can stop any person of hispanic descent even though they could be legal.

No, they can't racial profile you... besides that being against like 10 state laws it violates like 50 federal laws.

The law AZ enacted is damn near a duplicate of the Federal laws.. EDUCATE YOURSELF..

[BIGTYMER]

When a cop pulls you over or asks for ID they have to have a reason. Your tail light was out, you were speeding, etc.

Arizona law is saying now they don't need a reason.

That isn't right. I think its they don't have to have a reason to ask for your ID but they can't stop you just for the hell of it. They have to have a reason to stop you in the first place. Not just because they saw a Mexican and pulled him over.

[Caligari]

the business lobby will reverse this once their wage costs go up.

feel free to bump this in a year or two when i'm proved right.

you are correct, this will hit the AZ economy hard guaranteed. its just a racist law passed by a bunch of white twats who cannot fathom the consequences.

[Jon Oso]

Difference is they aren't going to be locking up LEGAL citizens. It's an inconvenience for citizens at the worst. If you have the proper documentation you're good to go.

[TheDoc]

you are correct, this will hit the AZ economy hard guaranteed. its just a racist law passed by a bunch of white twats who cannot fathom the consequences.

Hit it harder than the 15 million it's in the hole now because of illegals?


Most of the people in power in this state are Latino... your racist excuses are bullshit in a state that is majority Latino. My neighbors that support this are from Mexico too.

[ShellyCrash]

Federal Immigration Laws say if you're visiting the Country you must keep your Passport or Papers on you.

They are using the laws to fullest extent, so much that they are forced to use the employment laws to bust illegals to go around profiling bullshit simply because they know they're all illegals.

This law brings in 3,000 more national guard to the border... The cities have no money to get cops, the border patrol is hiring as fast as they can (largest growing job in the area) and our our State is 15 million in the hole, not hard to figure out the big reason.

If they were already doing everything they could before this law went into effect there wouldn't be swarms of undocumented day laborers swarming the home depot parking lots. Illegals or maybe even just people down on their luck (but let's face it, mostly illegals) these are people who are getting paid under the table and less than minimum wage. I'm just throwing that out there because it is the most obvious example, this shit goes on all over the country too, not just AZ, you;d be surprised but there is a large illegal population in places like South Carolina too, but back to the point-

Track these companys down and fine the living fuck out of them. Raise the fines = more money for state government to buy more cops. Make companies abide by federal hiring practices = more money for the state, more money for more cops and more money for social programs such as unemployment for all the legal workers in AZ.

That's just the one piece of the puzzle I see. I say give it time, they will come up with something less drastic that will get the job done, though it won't be over night. It took years to get this bad it will take years to fix. I don't live out there but I have alot of friends who do. I know its fucked, but when something gets that far gone you cant bend civil liberties so far the other way you over correct.

[Spunky]

Tons of them here selling crack and ripping off the working man by the multiple B&E's.Take back your citizens USA!

[BIGTYMER]

Shelly and a big thing is those check cashing places. The illegals I know all cash their checks there.

[Caligari]

No, they can't racial profile you... besides that being against like 10 state laws it violates like 50 federal laws.

The law AZ enacted is damn near a duplicate of the Federal laws.. EDUCATE YOURSELF..

No need, you just pointed out the fact, Arizona has re-instituted a federal law...for what reason if it already exists? Simple, to say yes we will now actively harass anyone we think is illegal..that is simple profiling you cannot argue against.

[TheDoc]

If they were already doing everything they could before this law went into effect there wouldn't be swarms of undocumented day laborers swarming the home depot parking lots. Illegals or maybe even just people down on their luck (but let's face it, mostly illegals) these are people who are getting paid under the table and less than minimum wage. I'm just throwing that out there because it is the most obvious example, this shit goes on all over the country too, not just AZ, you;d be surprised but there is a large illegal population in places like South Carolina too, but back to the point-

Our Country is setup so the States can do this...even more so when the Fed fails to do it. It's how our entire Country works from the inside-out.

States need federal funding to do more... they are given a set amount to work with based on what the Fed thinks they need.

Sheriff joe arpaio has made major news here with illegals, and he isn't the only one... it's so huge, so many - we need like 1000x the man power here.

Our state finally said fuck the Fed - we are taking Control - which is what it's legally allowed to do.

Track these companys down and fine the living fuck out of them. Raise the fines = more money for state government to buy more cops. Make companies abide by federal hiring practices = more money for the state, more money for more cops and more money for social programs such as unemployment for all the legal workers in AZ.

Yep, that's what the last law did... been lots of busts but only so many resources to go around.

That's just the one piece of the puzzle I see. I say give it time, they will come up with something less drastic that will get the job done, though it won't be over night. It took years to get this bad it will take years to fix. I don't live out there but I have alot of friends who do. I know its fucked, but when something gets that far gone you cant bend civil liberties so far the other way you over correct.

They have Civil Liberties in Mexico... here they're Criminals.

[Caligari]

Hit it harder than the 15 million it's in the hole now because of illegals?

ha! thats the card thats being played. illegal immigrants have sunk your economy right? bull fucking shit. make excuses for a corrupt political system that worked hand in hand with corporate america to bankrupt the economy and you actually have the gall to say its illegal aliens?

[TheDoc]

No need, you just pointed out the fact, Arizona has re-instituted a federal law...for what reason if it already exists? Simple, to say yes we will now actively harass anyone we think is illegal..that is simple profiling you cannot argue against.

Because our Country is setup in a way that the States can do this... it's in the Constitution.

When the Fed Gov fails to protect the people, the States can step in and do it. And in this case, the Fed was not protecting the border and Americans are dieing, having homes and lands evaded and such...

And no... they Can Not harass anyone they think is illegal, that is profiling and bullshit sheep spew. The laws are very clear, and this law doesn't take over other laws...

[ShellyCrash]

That isn't right. I think its they don't have to have a reason to ask for your ID but they can't stop you just for the hell of it. They have to have a reason to stop you in the first place. Not just because they saw a Mexican and pulled him over.

The rest of the country- yes, you are correct.

Arizona, not anymore.

That's what the push back is about.

If I'm walking down the street in AZ as a white girl no ones going to ask me for ID, but any time probable cause is removed from the equasion we all get put at risk. You can't let something that violates civil liberties set precident.

I hear what Jon is saying, most mexicans are just going to get a little hassle and then be on their way, but what if you lost your wallet, or left your ID at home. I've done it.

The difference between then and now is normally a cop wouldn't hassle you for ID unless you were doing something shady, so then if you wound up in a holding tank while they process you for the night you shouldn't have forgot your ID but more importantly you shouldn't have been doing something shady...

The slippery slope is this, if you take probable cause out of the equasion for this you can begin to use if for other scenerios as well. It may seem like it, but it's really not that far of a jump from you're hispanic let me see some id to you have tattoos let me search your car.

Probable cause is a check and ballance and its there for a reason. I cannot support its removal. I don't feel this is a last resort. I think there are more things the state can do that they haven't done.

[TheDoc]

ha! thats the card thats being played. illegal immigrants have sunk your economy right? bull fucking shit. make excuses for a corrupt political system that worked hand in hand with corporate america to bankrupt the economy and you actually have the gall to say its illegal aliens?

That's one of 100's, hell 1000's of reasons... how about the rancher killed working his land? Or the old lady's house a set of illegals did a home invasion on? Or the illegal that shot a friend of ours in a bar parking lot?

My personal view... road checks, checks at schools, checks at air ports, checks at the stores... ID everyone and clear the fucking state out.

[ShellyCrash]

I just wanna say this has been a good talk and everybody's being really cool and respectful. Awesome.

I gotta hit the sheets though kiddos, I've been going strong since 7am and I am done for the night. The spelling errors and typos are just going to get worse from here on out so I'm going to quit before I make a fool of myself. I'll catch up with yall in the mornig.

[Caligari]

That's one of 100's, hell 1000's of reasons... how about the rancher killed working his land? Or the old lady's house a set of illegals did a home invasion on? Or the illegal that shot a friend of ours in a bar parking lot?

My personal view... road checks, checks at schools, checks at air ports, checks at the stores... ID everyone and clear the fucking state out.

right, as if legals don't do the vast majority of crimes in your state? so you're going to minimize crime by 2%? good show! thats showing those damned illegals who's boss! heil hitl...i mean god bless america!

[TheDoc]

The rest of the country- yes, you are correct.

Arizona, not anymore.

That's what the push back is about.

If I'm walking down the street in AZ as a white girl no ones going to ask me for ID, but any time probable cause is removed from the equasion we all get put at risk. You can't let something that violates civil liberties set precident.

I hear what Jon is saying, most mexicans are just going to get a little hassle and then be on their way, but what if you lost your wallet, or left your ID at home. I've done it.

The difference between then and now is normally a cop wouldn't hassle you for ID unless you were doing something shady, so then if you wound up in a holding tank while they process you for the night you shouldn't have forgot your ID but more importantly you shouldn't have been doing something shady...

The slippery slope is this, if you take probable cause out of the equasion for this you can begin to use if for other scenerios as well. It may seem like it, but it's really not that far of a jump from you're hispanic let me see some id to you have tattoos let me search your car.

Probable cause is a check and ballance and its there for a reason. I cannot support its removal. I don't feel this is a last resort. I think there are more things the state can do that they haven't done.

You can't do any of that before the law and you can't do any of that after the law - no part of the law allows them to profile a person.

They could already, before this law, ask you for your id, ask you for your papers, and then detain you because 'they thought you were illegal' - then they called border patrol and hours passed....then they finally got processed.

Now, they process them when they know they're illegal.

It's a law that gives them the extends power they have, ie: they already have some.


The only thing this State hasn't tried is locking it down totally and forcing an ID check on everyone... I would support it.

[BIGTYMER]

I just wanna say this has been a good talk and everybody's being really cool and respectful. Awesome.

I gotta hit the sheets though kiddos, I've been going strong since 7am and I am done for the night. The spelling errors and typos are just going to get worse from here on out so I'm going to quit before I make a fool of myself. I'll catch up with yall in the mornig.

Indeed. You put up some good points. Night.