No need, you just pointed out the fact, Arizona has re-instituted a federal law...for what reason if it already exists? Simple, to say yes we will now actively harass anyone we think is illegal..that is simple profiling you cannot argue against.

Our Country is setup so the States can do this...even more so when the Fed fails to do it. It's how our entire Country works from the inside-out.

States need federal funding to do more... they are given a set amount to work with based on what the Fed thinks they need.

Sheriff joe arpaio has made major news here with illegals, and he isn't the only one... it's so huge, so many - we need like 1000x the man power here.

Our state finally said fuck the Fed - we are taking Control - which is what it's legally allowed to do.

Yep, that's what the last law did... been lots of busts but only so many resources to go around.

They have Civil Liberties in Mexico... here they're Criminals.

ha! thats the card thats being played. illegal immigrants have sunk your economy right? bull fucking shit. make excuses for a corrupt political system that worked hand in hand with corporate america to bankrupt the economy and you actually have the gall to say its illegal aliens? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Because our Country is setup in a way that the States can do this... it's in the Constitution.

When the Fed Gov fails to protect the people, the States can step in and do it. And in this case, the Fed was not protecting the border and Americans are dieing, having homes and lands evaded and such...

And no... they Can Not harass anyone they think is illegal, that is profiling and bullshit sheep spew. The laws are very clear, and this law doesn't take over other laws...

The rest of the country- yes, you are correct.

Arizona, not anymore.

That's what the push back is about.

If I'm walking down the street in AZ as a white girl no ones going to ask me for ID, but any time probable cause is removed from the equasion we all get put at risk. You can't let something that violates civil liberties set precident.

I hear what Jon is saying, most mexicans are just going to get a little hassle and then be on their way, but what if you lost your wallet, or left your ID at home. I've done it.

The difference between then and now is normally a cop wouldn't hassle you for ID unless you were doing something shady, so then if you wound up in a holding tank while they process you for the night you shouldn't have forgot your ID but more importantly you shouldn't have been doing something shady...

The slippery slope is this, if you take probable cause out of the equasion for this you can begin to use if for other scenerios as well. It may seem like it, but it's really not that far of a jump from you're hispanic let me see some id to you have tattoos let me search your car.

Probable cause is a check and ballance and its there for a reason. I cannot support its removal. I don't feel this is a last resort. I think there are more things the state can do that they haven't done.

That's one of 100's, hell 1000's of reasons... how about the rancher killed working his land? Or the old lady's house a set of illegals did a home invasion on? Or the illegal that shot a friend of ours in a bar parking lot?

My personal view... road checks, checks at schools, checks at air ports, checks at the stores... ID everyone and clear the fucking state out.

I just wanna say this has been a good talk and everybody's being really cool and respectful. Awesome.

I gotta hit the sheets though kiddos, I've been going strong since 7am and I am done for the night. The spelling errors and typos are just going to get worse from here on out so I'm going to quit before I make a fool of myself. I'll catch up with yall in the mornig.

right, as if legals don't do the vast majority of crimes in your state? so you're going to minimize crime by 2%? good show! thats showing those damned illegals who's boss! heil hitl...i mean god bless america!

You can't do any of that before the law and you can't do any of that after the law - no part of the law allows them to profile a person.

They could already, before this law, ask you for your id, ask you for your papers, and then detain you because 'they thought you were illegal' - then they called border patrol and hours passed....then they finally got processed.

Now, they process them when they know they're illegal.

It's a law that gives them the extends power they have, ie: they already have some.


The only thing this State hasn't tried is locking it down totally and forcing an ID check on everyone... I would support it.

Indeed. You put up some good points. Night. :)

2%? Where do you get your numbers? Right now just in the Phoenix jail there is 10 illegals in for murder.

The ratio, it's about 50 to 1... Almost every home invasion, anything on the south side of the city which is 90% of all the news.

White people make the news too, normally hit and runs after clearing an Illegal off the road after they started treating our streets like home.

LOL, I have been to Mexico a ton of times and other then getting off the plane or crossing the border I have never once been asked for my documents after that ever.

Arizona Arizona

Border towns and resorts are easy because they want your money... drive into Mexico and see what happens. I have had my car damn near taken apart on the side of the highway with 14 year olds walking around with guns keep an eye on things....

What would happen if the Mexicans all left Arizona? Lots of stuff.

Unemployment would drop to zero. All those fuckers hanging out at Home Depot looking for a job, they wouldn't be there. Contractors will have to hire Americans. Landscapers too. Crime would drop, less resources being used by people who don't pay for them in the first place.....

If your here legally, I don't care what race you are.

I recently complained to the local police about my neighbor, and a few weeks ago his house was raided. They arrested everyone in the house except for him - including his girlfriend. All of them were from Mexico. Bye bye.

My other neighbor, entire family, Mexican. He works as an contractor. Invites me to house every other week for Mexican food. Great guy.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Article 8, Section B

Lawful contact and probable cause are two entirely different things.

:2 cents:

I think some of these people have not actually read this new law. They seem to be making some things up as they go along. :2 cents:

some of my best friends are mexicans.

Then you were not in the real parts of Mexico, you were in tourist destinations. Go outside of tourist destinations and they will stop you. They have the right to stop anyone at anytime and ask them for their ID. Some police officers also will stop you for a bullshit reason and demand money to let you go.

Description of Two Wrongs Make a Right

Two Wrongs Make a Right is a fallacy in which a person "justifies" an action against a person by asserting that the person would do the same thing to him/her, when the action is not necessary to prevent B from doing X to A. This fallacy has the following pattern of "reasoning":

It is claimed that person B would do X to person A.
It is acceptable for person A to do X to person B (when A's doing X to B is not necessary to prevent B from doing X to A).
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because an action that is wrong is wrong even if another person would also do it.

It should be noted that it can be the case that it is not wrong for A to do X to B if X is done to prevent B from doing X to A or if X is done in justified retribution. For example, if Sally is running in the park and Biff tries to attack her, Sally would eb jsutified in attacking Biff to defend herself. As another example, if country A is planning to invade country B in order to enslave the people, then country B would be justified in launching a pre-emptive strike to prevent the invasion.

Examples of Two Wrongs Make a Right

Bill has borrowed Jane's expensive pen, but found he didn't return it. He tell's himself that it is okay to keep it, since she would have taken his.
Jane: "Did you hear about those terrorists killing those poor people? That sort of killing is just wrong."
Sue: "Those terrorists are justified. After all, their land was taken from them. It is morally right for them to do what they do."
Jane: "Even when they blow up busloads of children?"
Sue: "Yes."
After leaving a store, Jill notices that she has underpaid by $10. She decides not to return the money to the store because if she had overpaid, they would not have returned the money.
Jill is horrified by the way the state uses capital punishment. Bill says that capital punishment is fine, since those the state kill don't have any qualms about killing others.

It was a pleasure talking to you. It is nice to have a talk without people calling names and acting silly. Sweet dreams. :)

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I don't blame them at all for taking him in. It is not hard for illegals to get a fake license or social security card. Plus that guy spoke broken English, I would expect better English from a US born citizen. I am hispanic, grew up in FL and learned spanish before English. I can speak perfect English.


Here's a nice story about a sheriffs deputy doing his job and getting shot by an illegal alien.

Ah, so you are in support of an American citizen with a SSN card and a CDL license being handcuffed and detained because they did not have their birth certificate with them.

I don't think people want all mexicans to be gone. I think they just want them to follow the laws and rules that we have in this country. If you want to be a citizen follow the proper channels. Simple as that.

So what rule do I get to break today because I am white? Can I speed and get a free pass if a cop pulls me over. If mexicans break laws liberals cry for them and want to accomindate them (<- because they want their votes, they really don't give a shit about you).

There are laws, fucking follow them. If you don't like our laws then get the fuck out. I just can't believe people come here ILLEGALY then bitch about our laws here.

Profiling should required in cases when the statistics support it. While that particular case hopefully is the exception, cops are too handcuffed.

Here is the real question, should we open up the borders and let everyone in, or lock it down and make people come in legally. It is an either or question. If we believe we should protect our boarders and try to prevent the following:
illegal aliens we can not afford to take care of.
criminals who come across and committ crimes we can not afford to deal with or should our citizens (mexican americans included) be killed.
that state to be saddled with debt because it has to pay for the illegals because the feds wont step up and shut the boarder down.
help cut back the huge amount of drugs coming in.
Hasn't happened yet but sooner or later a suit case nuke is going to come across the boarder and the the liberals will stop crying and will want to build a 100 foot wall.

There is a problem. The state wont get help from the feds. it wants to protect it's citizens, it takes action. Illegals are a threat to legal mexicans just as much as anyone else in that state for all of the reasons mentioned above. If they get inconvenienced by being checked and they are doing nothing wrong and have the identification they are suppose to have on them, then you think they would realize this is being done to HELP protrect them just as much as anyone else and not being done to harass them.

It reminds me the ignorant black people here. Crime here is about 98% committed by blacks, and the victims are 95% blacks (black on black). Of that the majority committing the crime is young black males. This isn't being racist, its the fucking facts. So what do the cops do, they try to protect the citizens and protrol those areas more, if they see young blacks males doing suspecious things they stop them and check id. OMG the fucking nerver of those racist cops for profiling. Let's see, it's almost 100% black on black crime with most of it by young males in their neighborhoods and the cops are there to try to protect the other black residents but they are too ignorant to see that and even the residents there scream, "you racist!"

the police should go where the statistics take them. Either you people need to get some thicker skin and realize if you want to fix the problem you MIGHT be inconvenienced once or twice or you can just die from the violence and then go bitch about the police for not protecting you :upsidedow:Oh crap

In this case yes I am. He can blame the illegals for his arrest. They are the ones that get fake ID's and SS cards. Plus his broken English is another factor when you are unsure if someone is a legal citizen. Fuck it, everyone needs to carry some kind of ID that says you are a US citizen. Other countries require it.

If you come across the wrong ones they wont care to see your id, just want all of your money.

You people should see what mexico does to the illegals who come into mexico from the south from central america countries... google it.

One love to my Mexicans
Tryin' to run across the border
To see freedom all over again

deputy shot in AZ... breaking news on CNN

The same story for every "normal" country. The illegals are making the most of the crap around and complain for the human rights.

........................................

Yeah because white people don't do that stuff.

Then the same thing happens to them that happened to me back in 2007 or so when I got arrested for an FTA warrant that was a record keeping issue on behalf of the state.

They issued a warrant for my arrest based on my not showing up for court for a traffic ticket from late 2006 early 2007 I believe. MONTHS WENT BY and when I was out with a group of people doing high-speed runs down a scarcely used freeway, cops showed up and ran everyone's info. Mine came back flagged as having a warrant so off to jail I went.

Once I found out what exactly it was for I told the officer, the people transporting me from the satellite jail to the one downtown, and finally the only person that cared to listen - the judge - they were making a mistake. Luckily he believed me, looked it up and realized that yes I had been to court, and beyond that I went to trial AND was found not guilty.

So I got an apology and was let out about 6 hours later.


Pretty much the same thing that suspected illegals would go through if they were in fact legal citizens. Once they could prove it (be looked up in our country's wonderful system) they would be released. I'm white, it happened to me - and I went about my way just happy I didn't have to deal with more court bullshit regarding the matter.

People need to be happy that our government is finally doing something to help us out in our own country instead of dealing with bullshit where most of us will never come within 1000 miles of.

I fully support making people provide ID to prove they are citizens. I don't care if this place ends up like Nazi Germany in that regard, because we aren't going around killing off a race of people, we're just trying to make them go through the proper legal channels to gain citizenship. People are comparing this to the Nazi Regime but the major differences are that

A) we aren't trying to kill off mexican people
B) we aren't saying that mexicans can't be citizens, the government just wants them to go through the already established legal channels to obtain citizenship
C) (I could be wrong but) Obama isn't trying to cleanse the US LOL

It's been bad in AZ for a long time. Ever since I've lived here and I'm sure long before that. This isn't going to correct the problem I don't think. In fact I think it will just make the illegals go further towards the interior of the US and in 5-10 years more states will pass the same laws.

You posted this bullshit yesterday... do you really want to be made to look stupid?

Immigration/Customs busted him, not the police. When they ask for your last name or the name of your Dog, you best answer - citizen or not.

Thanks, posting that just made this very easy - now everyone can shut the hell up about racial profiling bullshit.

Lawful Contact is a legal term: Allowed or Permissible by being in CONFORMITY WITH LAWS, principles, regulations, status, etc... meant to govern or regulate a particular activity or conduct. SEE ALSO LEGAL


Those 2 cents are probably getting a bit thin by now.....

i just woke up, bit of a hangover. i think i got a little Belligerent last night in my intoxicated state so if i came across that way i do apologize.

on the racial profiling thing, all i can say is time will tell. i do think they will use this new law as a loophole to harass people and certainly its going to create more animosity.

i find myself defending the illegals simply because i saw what they did in the south after katrina. they rebuilt vast areas of louisiana and mississippi. i spoke to typically racist people who agreed that the illegals were kicking ass in the rebuilding process.
why? because they took the low paying construction help jobs and worked ungodly hours because many legals didn't want to do those jobs.

many companies expect to hire illegals to cut costs and i don't think they are going to fill those positions in arizona by doubling or tripling the wage and suddenly hiring legals.
you may find alot of those companies leaving arizona because of this.

LOl funny, i livd in California during the day without mexican. Most people enjoyed the day tremendously