So I read the pledge to America

[Vendzilla]

http://www.gop.gov/resources/library...to-america.pdf

I saw a lot of things I agreed with a few I didn't. I know how the GOP stands on abortions, so not going there.

There is a lot of talk about missle defence and military, only one paragraph on secureing the border, but atleast they want to do something. I'm getting tired of the US playing international cops and we need to scale back.

Cut Spending and Reducing the size of government, to pre stimulus size, then working from there, they talked about how the size of the government has increased over the last decade, so I hope they are talking about getting back to THAT level. All in All, sounded good with more of a plan than I heard from Obama's golden speeches that gave a path with no direction, so we'll see if they can do what they promise and just how big a hit they give to the democrats in November

[dyna mo]

was there anything in there about working with the dems to get that shit done? prolly not huh.

[Fat Panda]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...rom-the-pledge

this will make you laugh

[Vendzilla]

was there anything in there about working with the dems to get that shit done? prolly not huh.

read page 34 on, they want to change how things are done, don't know if they can do that, but we can hope

[minicivan]

was there anything in there about working with the dems to get that shit done? prolly not huh.

How you have a super majority in government and still blame the other side?

[dyna mo]

How you have a super majority in government and still blame the other side?

what.
the.
fuck.
are you talking about? do you always make ridiculous ASSumptions?

you have absolutely ZERO idea what my political affiliations are.

[dyna mo]

read page 34 on, they want to change how things are done, don't know if they can do that, but we can hope

i guess we'll always have hope, although obama kinda popped that balloon eh.

[MaDalton]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...rom-the-pledge

this will make you laugh

i love Jon Stewart

[Blingbaby]

read page 34 on, they want to change how things are done, don't know if they can do that, but we can hope

The sheep will follow anyone with a stick it seems..

[marketsmart]

The sheep will follow anyone with a stick it seems..

yes, and of course guys like vendzilla believe that the republicans will follow through with their promises unlike the democrats...

how many promises have republicans made over the years and broken them all...

there is no difference between the two parties and their failed promises..

i hope that the republicans take control in novemeber then everyone can see its just the same old shit...

but, then guys like vend will just say its all obamas fault for the republicans failures...

i keep hoping that someday people will wake up and realize that govt change is the change we need and continuing to elect these idiots isnt the answer...




.

[GatorB]

http://www.gop.gov/resources/library...to-america.pdf

I saw a lot of things I agreed with a few I didn't. I know how the GOP stands on abortions, so not going there.

There is a lot of talk about missle defence and military, only one paragraph on secureing the border, but atleast they want to do something.

You know from Jan 2001-Jan 2007 the GOP controled the White House and Congress. Why didn't they get anything done then?

[The Demon]

You know from Jan 2001-Jan 2007 the GOP controled the White House and Congress. Why didn't they get anything done then?

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/his...s/partydiv.htm

We forget, you're oblivious to facts.

[marketsmart]

You know from Jan 2001-Jan 2007 the GOP controled the White House and Congress. Why didn't they get anything done then?

they did a lot...

they allowed terrorists to fly planes into the wtc and they invaded two countries...




.

[The Demon]

they did a lot...

they allowed terrorists to fly planes into the wtc and they invaded two countries...




.

Majority Party (June 6, 2001-November 12, 2002 --): Democrat (50 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (49 seats)

Other Parties: 1

Total Seats: 100

Looks like facts elude you yet again Market, seeing as how the Democrats controlled the majority during 9/11. Facts win again

[Vendzilla]

yes, and of course guys like vendzilla believe that the republicans will follow through with their promises unlike the democrats...

how many promises have republicans made over the years and broken them all...

there is no difference between the two parties and their failed promises..

i hope that the republicans take control in novemeber then everyone can see its just the same old shit...

but, then guys like vend will just say its all obamas fault for the republicans failures...

i keep hoping that someday people will wake up and realize that govt change is the change we need and continuing to elect these idiots isnt the answer...

.

Actually I believe it was the GOP's fault for fucking things up for 6 years that allowed the democrats to come to power and really fuck things up, Obama is just an idiot that couldn't do anything with a house controlled by democrats, pretty amazing really, a truly epic fail.
The last time they did a contract, they did follow thru with success, so I can only hope

You know from Jan 2001-Jan 2007 the GOP controled the White House and Congress. Why didn't they get anything done then?

Never said I approved of what they did then, I will say the last time they got together with a plan, circa 1994, they did some good stuff and the nation as a whole was in a better place for it for 8 years

[marketsmart]

Majority Party (June 6, 2001-November 12, 2002 --): Democrat (50 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (49 seats)

Other Parties: 1

Total Seats: 100

Looks like facts elude you yet again Market, seeing as how the Democrats controlled the majority during 9/11. Facts win again

ok then it was all GW's fault just like now is all Obama'a fault right?






.

[The Demon]

ok then it was all GW's fault just like now is all Obama'a fault right?






.

Way to divert attention because you can't get your facts straight and you pretend to be objective. And all of you morons were blaming Bush, but now it's not Obama's fault. Once again, nice try.

[Vendzilla]

Way to divert attention because you can't get your facts straight and you pretend to be objective. And all of you morons were blaming Bush, but now it's not Obama's fault. Once again, nice try.

the mess we are in begins with what happened during Bush's presidency, thats a given, but blaming him for our mess 2 years after he ended has no merit. Obama owns this now and when the economy remains tanked for 2 years, it falls on his shoulders, not Bushs

[kane]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...rom-the-pledge

this will make you laugh

Stewart is the man. As per normal it seems this new pledge is pretty much what the republicans always offer. Every time they lose an election they repackage the same crap and sell it to the public again. The amazing thing is that it works and they get elected. Of course they fail to follow through with most of it, but that just means they can package it up and sell it one more time.

It will be very interesting to see just how much of this stuff they actually try to move forward once they have the house back. I have a feeling if they win the house and the democrats hold the senate (which is how it is looking ) the two will just fight and get nothing done and they will work to make each other look bad for the 2012 election.

[Serge Litehead]

is it even possible to downsize government without a war or revolution? they talk about how large it is and just keep expanding it more

[marketsmart]

Way to divert attention because you can't get your facts straight and you pretend to be objective. And all of you morons were blaming Bush, but now it's not Obama's fault. Once again, nice try.

the president can go to war without congress's consent..

so, i guess that throws your argument out the window about blaming the democrats..

my point was that people blame obama as being "the democrats" when he is just a piece..

i was being a smart ass with my comment saying it was bush's fault, therefore the republicans fault..

i see that you are so hell bent on taking sides that you have become blind to the tragic comedy of the whole thing...

funny how people continue to focus on blaming one side and overlook the larger problem which is govt as a whole...

it doesnt matter who controlled congress at the time of the attacks or who was in the white house at the time...

the response would have remained the same...

i am really hoping you get your wish in november because then maybe you will come to realize that it doesnt matter who is piloting the ship, the destination will be the same...






.

[marketsmart]

the mess we are in begins with what happened during Bush's presidency, thats a given, but blaming him for our mess 2 years after he ended has no merit. Obama owns this now and when the economy remains tanked for 2 years, it falls on his shoulders, not Bushs

sometimes you really get it...

i agree that obama has done little to correct the mess that the bush admin got us into, but what do you expect when obama has proven to do nothing but continue the failed economic ideology of the bush admin...

and do you really expect a republican controlled congress and white house to do anything to change course?

imo the republicans will just divert the out of control spending to other areas and miss the fact that its govt spending that is the problem and not what we spend money on...

it doesnt matter how you spend 10 dollars if you are only bringing in 5 dollars...





.

[The Demon]

the president can go to war without congress's consent..

so, i guess that throws your argument out the window about blaming the democrats..

Nice strawman argument. Next time try addressing what I actually argued instead of using misdirection.

my point was that people blame obama as being "the democrats" when he is just a piece..

They blame Obama like liberals blame Bush. So it's either both of their faults, or neither.

i see that you are so hell bent on taking sides that you have become blind to the tragic comedy of the whole thing...

No, apparently you DON'T see, because if that was the case, I wouldn't insult you for being biased while pretending to be objective.

it doesnt matter who controlled congress at the time of the attacks or who was in the white house at the time...

If it didn't matter, you wouldn't have made such an ignorant comment.

[fatfoo]

You say Obama's speeches gave a path with no direction. That doesn't sound good. I think what people need is a pathfinder. In other words, the people may need a road sign that says "go to the right and this will happen, go to the left and another thing will happen, go straight and the third thing will happen."

[Bill8]

the president can go to war without congress's consent..

so, i guess that throws your argument out the window about blaming the democrats...

when your opponent is arguing a minor technical distinction, it is often useful to recheck their own sources. and to point out that their minor distinction is minor.

such arguments depend on you accepting the technicality or declining to do the work of factchecking. in this case your opponent deliberately took true partial data and attempted to represent it as whole data, a common rhetorical trick.

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/his...s/partydiv.htm

Note: From January 3 to January 20, 2001, with the Senate divided evenly between the two parties, the Democrats held the majority due to the deciding vote of outgoing Democratic Vice President Al Gore. Senator Thomas A. Daschle served as majority leader at that time. Beginning on January 20, 2001, Republican Vice President Richard Cheney held the deciding vote, giving the majority to the Republicans. Senator Trent Lott resumed his position as majority leader on that date. On May 24, 2001, Senator James Jeffords of Vermont announced his switch from Republican to Independent status, effective June 6, 2001. Jeffords announced that he would caucus with the Democrats, giving the Democrats a one-seat advantage, changing control of the Senate from the Republicans back to the Democrats. Senator Thomas A. Daschle again became majority leader on June 6, 2001. Senator Paul D. Wellstone (D-MN) died on October 25, 2002, and Independent Dean Barkley was appointed to fill the vacancy. The November 5, 2002 election brought to office elected Senator James Talent (R-MO), replacing appointed Senator Jean Carnahan (D-MO), shifting balance once again to the Republicans -- but no reorganization was completed at that time since the Senate was out of session.

asking them to restate the crux of their argument is also useful. often they can't, because they are trying to distract from core issues with technicalities which may or may not be relevant.

in this case the really relevant factor is how the votes turned out, not the party distrubution, which was 50/50 +/-1 during those two years.

one would have to pick characteristic pieces of legislation and look at the vote distribution. The current mandated bush tax bill increase ruckus is about a bill that passed with 58 votes at the beginning of that period - clearly some dems crossed the line, something that dems are known to do, rare for republicans.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=1&vote=00170

Vote Number: 170 Vote Date: May 26, 2001, 11:25 AM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Conference Report Agreed to

Measure Number: H.R. 1836 (Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 )
Measure Title: A bill to provide for reconciliation pursuant to section 104 of the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2002.
Vote Counts: YEAs 58
NAYs 33
Present 2
Not Voting 7

it will be interesting to see what a more deadlocked congress produces this next two years.

[The Demon]

asking them to restate the crux of their argument is also useful. often they can't, because they are trying to distract from core issues with technicalities which may or may not be relevant.

That's a rather astute post, or rather the attempt was. If you actually read my post a little clearer, you'd know that I wasn't debating who had the majority, but refuting Market's assertions based on facts. Yes, through a technical standpoint, it was 50-49, but he could have looked at that himself. So you see, there was no "misdirection", as you'd like to believe. I'm not even sure what the point of your post was, other than to try and point out faults that aren't there.

in this case the really relevant factor is how the votes turned out, not the party distrubution, which was 50/50 +/-1 during those two years.

The assertions was:

they allowed terrorists to fly planes into the wtc and they invaded two countries

Seeing as how they weren't the majority by any means, whether technical or not, this point was proven to be false. That was all the point was meant to do. No distraction from some imaginary argument, nothing. Pay more attention next time.

[marketsmart]

Nice strawman argument. Next time try addressing what I actually argued instead of using misdirection.


They blame Obama like liberals blame Bush. So it's either both of their faults, or neither.



No, apparently you DON'T see, because if that was the case, I wouldn't insult you for being biased while pretending to be objective.


If it didn't matter, you wouldn't have made such an ignorant comment.

yes, i am biased...

you really dont retain information very well do you?

i could give two shits about obama or the democrats...

i will admit i voted for obama and i really thought he was going to do something great..

he is a failure, not because of the person he is, but because he doesnt really control anything and he doesnt have the balls to stand up to the real entities that run this country or maybe he represents those entities..

in any case, i have lost all hope for any significant change regardless of who is in office or control of congress..

like i have told you before, you never offer any substance, only bashing..

i have asked you several times to offer up your solution and all you can do is offer canned responses that you can find with a simple google search...

you are too ignorant to accept others opinions that differ from your own..

the difference between you and me is that i while i may not agree with other peoples opinions and sometime rag on those people, i am smart enough to consider what they have to say..

i am also smart enough to change my mind when i feel new information warrants a change of opinion..

you are stuck in one belief and will not let go of any personal belief regardless of how ignorant it is..

you represent everything that is wrong with this country and the backwards ideology that has helped contribute to the fleecing of the american people by its government..

lack of constructive dialogue has led to this whole notion that it is one side versus the other and created a two sided party that pits the importance of being on the right side over common sense and collective problem solving..

you show your ignorance in every thread you post in by not having the ability to listen to other opinions that differ from your own..

you result to name calling and insults instead of offering any type of intelligent rebuttal..

what i dont understand is why do you care so much?

you posted some screen shots and if they are accurate then you are making decent money, so why does it matter to you?

do you think you will do better if republicans are running things?

do you think bashing people on an adult forum is going to change any of the countries problems?

maybe you could take the time to write a post that enlightens the rest of us to how you could fix all the countries problems since you seem to think you are so intelligent and everyone else is an idiot..

with all your brainpower surely you have a laundry list of ideas that no one else has thought of?

please, show me how smart you are... i really enjoy learning from people that are very intelligent...

so, are you going to step up to the plate or will your response to this post be just like all your others where you just offer insults or change the subject?

your serve....






.

[marketsmart]

when your opponent is arguing a minor technical distinction, it is often useful to recheck their own sources. and to point out that their minor distinction is minor.

such arguments depend on you accepting the technicality or declining to do the work of factchecking. in this case your opponent deliberately took true partial data and attempted to represent it as whole data, a common rhetorical trick.



asking them to restate the crux of their argument is also useful. often they can't, because they are trying to distract from core issues with technicalities which may or may not be relevant.

in this case the really relevant factor is how the votes turned out, not the party distrubution, which was 50/50 +/-1 during those two years.

one would have to pick characteristic pieces of legislation and look at the vote distribution. The current mandated bush tax bill increase ruckus is about a bill that passed with 58 votes at the beginning of that period - clearly some dems crossed the line, something that dems are known to do, rare for republicans.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=1&vote=00170



it will be interesting to see what a more deadlocked congress produces this next two years.

if that was actually the point i was trying to make then fact checking would be in order..

however since that was not my intention fact checking was not in order and i dont get so bent on being right like others here, there was no need for me to personally check the facts..

but i applaud you for proving that demon just pulls bullshit out of his arse and fabricates facts to try to show others he is right..

its even funnier to see him back peddle when called out..

the guy is proving to be the typical fanatical right wing goofball...

even vendzilla contributes more constructive two sided communication these days then demon..

it shows me that vendzilla is an intelligent guy that can listen to various viewpoints and change his opinions on certain things without worrying about being called names..

unless people can learn to be humble and realize that its ok to change your mind about something, we as a people will continue to move in a backward direction...





.

[The Demon]

yes, i am biased...

you really dont retain information very well do you?

Apparently a lot better than you, since retaining information has no basis on what you pretend to be, and the mannerisms of your postings. I'll humor you one more time because this is just too easy.

i could give two shits about obama or the democrats...

Your posts say otherwise.

he is a failure, not because of the person he is, but because he doesnt really control anything and he doesnt have the balls to stand up to the real entities that run this country or maybe he represents those entities..

No, he's a failure because he's underqualified for his job and his policies are retarded.

like i have told you before, you never offer any substance, only bashing..

Except my posts were clear and concise, especially to refute your nonsense. Instead of admitting you being wrong, you have to jump on the defensive and make things up, as usual.

i have asked you several times to offer up your solution and all you can do is offer canned responses that you can find with a simple google search...

This is yet another strawman mixed with desperation of making things up. I'll ask you to offer any kind of proof of this retarded assertion but I suspect this is a "last stand" for you, and you'll conveniently ignore this or go on another tangent.

you are too ignorant to accept others opinions that differ from your own..

This is yet another scripted defense mechanism in the face of overwhelming defeat. Don't be mad at me because I called you out on your bullshit and it was 100% accurate. If making things up is all you have left, then I feel sorry for you.

the difference between you and me is that i while i may not agree with other peoples opinions and sometime rag on those people, i am smart enough to consider what they have to say..

Oh yea totally, because your posts indicate as such. +1 for delusions.

you are stuck in one belief and will not let go of any personal belief regardless of how ignorant it is..

And we have yet another scripted line of desperation. I would ask you not to make things up but I suspect it's not going to go anywhere. I will also ask you to provide proof of my "personal belief", and when you don't, we'll know why.

you represent everything that is wrong with this country and the backwards ideology that has helped contribute to the fleecing of the american people by its government..

Yes, more nonsense explaining absolutely nothing. I especially enjoy doing this knowing you have no idea what my "views" are, but are quick to jump on the scripted defensive.

you show your ignorance in every thread you post in by not having the ability to listen to other opinions that differ from your own..

Uhuh..

you result to name calling and insults instead of offering any type of intelligent rebuttal..

I've lost count of the bullshit. Sorry I was dozing off.

you posted some screen shots and if they are accurate then you are making decent money, so why does it matter to you?

This is irrelevant.

do you think you will do better if republicans are running things?

No, but I don't think they can do worse than the Democrats are doing now.

maybe you could take the time to write a post that enlightens the rest of us to how you could fix all the countries problems since you seem to think you are so intelligent and everyone else is an idiot..

Not everyone, just the majority of you.

please, show me how smart you are... i really enjoy learning from people that are very intelligent...

Apparently you don't.

[The Demon]

if that was actually the point i was trying to make then fact checking would be in order..

however since that was not my intention fact checking was not in order and i dont get so bent on being right like others here, there was no need for me to personally check the facts..

but i applaud you for proving that demon just pulls bullshit out of his arse and fabricates facts to try to show others he is right..

its even funnier to see him back peddle when called out..

the guy is proving to be the typical fanatical right wing goofball...

even vendzilla contributes more constructive two sided communication these days then demon..

it shows me that vendzilla is an intelligent guy that can listen to various viewpoints and change his opinions on certain things without worrying about being called names..

unless people can learn to be humble and realize that its ok to change your mind about something, we as a people will continue to move in a backward direction...





.

Ladies and gentlemen, backpeddling, bullshit, and stupidity all in one post. Good job Market. You've proven yet again that you don't actually look at the "Facts", otherwise you would have read Bill8's post carefully and noticed that there were no discrepancies. Objective and open minded my ass rofl.

[marketsmart]

Ladies and gentlemen, backpeddling, bullshit, and stupidity all in one post. Good job Market. You've proven yet again that you don't actually look at the "Facts", otherwise you would have read Bill8's post carefully and noticed that there were no discrepancies. Objective and open minded my ass rofl.

just as i suspected..

you try to shift the argument to who's right and who's wrong when all i asked was for your brilliant insight...

you dont have any solutions do you?

let me make it easy for you.. ok you were right about the democrats controlling congress..

i was wrong and should really try to make future posts more factual even when they are in jest..

ok, so now that we have that out of the way and no need for you to correct me..

tell my, how would you fix the countries problems?

are you going to step up or just act like you didnt see this post?







.

[marketsmart]

do i hear crickets?






.

[The Demon]

Yea, you're just sidestepping the fact that you're wrong and nobody's coming to your rescue. I really enjoy your misdirection, it's adorable.

[marketsmart]

Yea, you're just sidestepping the fact that you're wrong and nobody's coming to your rescue. I really enjoy your misdirection, it's adorable.

how am i sidestepping idiot..

i said i was wrong..

you have to be one of the biggest morons here...

i asked you for your solution since you claim to be so smart and you just continue on with your bullshit...

give me an answer to my question or stfu and go back under your troll bridge..




.

[The Demon]

how am i sidestepping idiot..

i said i was wrong..

you have to be one of the biggest morons here...

If I'm one of the biggest morons here, and I make you look stupid, what does that make you?

i asked you for your solution since you claim to be so smart and you just continue on with your bullshit...

I've provided many solutions in the past week, that's why I have debates with the likes of Kane. You just post random bullshit, get called out, and then go on the defensive like a little kid.

give me an answer to my question or stfu and go back under your troll bridge..

I can't possibly troll any harder than you have today. Just do us all a favor and stop posting, it's getting kinda sad.

[marketsmart]

If I'm one of the biggest morons here, and I make you look stupid, what does that make you?


I've provided many solutions in the past week, that's why I have debates with the likes of Kane. You just post random bullshit, get called out, and then go on the defensive like a little kid.


I can't possibly troll any harder than you have today. Just do us all a favor and stop posting, it's getting kinda sad.

you always say you post solutions in some thread that i never see...

you are continuously getting called out in threads for your lack of substance..

why do you have such a hard time defending your posts with solid ideas?

i post random bullshit?

i consistently post the same message which is that govt is the problem not the republicans or democrats yet your infinite intelligence seems to miss that point..

why is that?

i dont get offended or upset or angry by your posts... they make me laugh...

why? because you are the epitome of what is wrong with people..

you would rather be part of the problem then part of the solution and you try to justify your position by quoting what you hear in the mainstream media..

<golf clap>

when you can make a post that actually contains your own ideas, i will engage you in intelligent debate..

until that time, i will continue to call you out for the fraud that you are...





.

[tiger]

You should've spent a few minutes researching who wrote it, then you could have saved yourself the time of actually reading it.

[The Demon]

you always say you post solutions in some thread that i never see...

you are continuously getting called out in threads for your lack of substance..

Really? By whom? And I seriously hope you mention someone who isn't continuously called out for his lack of intelligence. Hell, you might as well mention slutboat for calling me out, that'll really help you.

why do you have such a hard time defending your posts with solid ideas?

I don't, you just can't read.

i post random bullshit?

Yup, you've spent the majority of this thread making shit up. It's humorous.

i consistently post the same message which is that govt is the problem not the republicans or democrats yet your infinite intelligence seems to miss that point..

Weird, I've proven to be objective, and I've also proven that you aren't. But please keep pretending.

i dont get offended or upset or angry by your posts... they make me laugh...

Yea, that's what the ignorant do when they don't "get it".

why? because you are the epitome of what is wrong with people..

I'm sure you can clarify this so...Oh wait, you can't. This is the "bullshit" I was talking about. You use sayings and concepts you have no understanding of, and try to pass them off as your own.

you would rather be part of the problem then part of the solution and you try to justify your position by quoting what you hear in the mainstream media..

Continue making things up because you're getting your ass handed to you. It's definitely a hilarious rationalization. "He's making me look stupid so I'm going to claim he's using fox news or mainstream media as his source!" I could use your logic as well and it would sound just as stupid. Everything you say isn't your own thinking! Dumbass

when you can make a post that actually contains your own ideas, i will engage you in intelligent debate..

Nothing about your posts says "intelligent", or "Debate". Humor is more likely. Continue making us laugh, clown.

[tony286]

they have no solutions, its hook up their rich buddies and leave the sheep to swing in the wind. The fucking pledge was written by a guy that was a lobbyist for AIG. These angry,scared people are being played. It's sad.

[tony286]

I also think the democrats have been the biggest disappointment to me. No back bone. I give the right credit they work as one team. Not the dems. The rights big problem will be if they get back in power is they did such a number on barry got the people all worked up. They painted themselves in a corner so they cant be bipartisan if they plan to get reelected.