Originally Posted by RyuLion (Post 17061908)

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17064208)

This is my point, cops can NOT just single you out and ask you for your ID unless they have probable cause. Do they still do it? Of course, cops do because most people are sheep and comply and why (meaning of my posts) this law is ripe for abuse.

Case in point, I have a rental property and was doing Spring maintenance four days ago. The police rolled up and ask if one of my tenets was home I said no and I have not seen him. They ask me who I am and if I lived here etc. I explained, this is rental property and I am the owner etc. They asked me if they can come in and take a look around and I said no. Then the cop starts to get pissed and asked me why not? I replied I just told you he was not here. He then asked me if that was my vehicle and I say yes, and then asked me for my ID? I told him this is "my" private property and I don't have to show you ID and matter of fact, please leave.

The cop explains he is doing an investigation and I said great investigate, I then shut the door and went back to work and they sat and knocked on the door and "yelled" open the door for another 20 minutes and then left.

My point? - I was completely fucking hassled because a cop got his ego bend by simply exercising my constitutional right. So what do you think is going to happen if that law goes national?

Originally Posted by TheSenator (Post 17061181)

Why go after the illegal immigrants????

Just stop the businesses hiring them illegally....problem solved.

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane (Post 17064124)

The day you are forced to carry ID, is the day you lost WW2.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17064523)

As mentioned I did Identify myself and still refused to show my ID. That is not the point and i'm not here to split hairs with you. The point is, and what you fail to understand is NEVER give up your liberties for security. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17064554)

,,,and you are a tool.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17064087)

Both companies got in trouble. (they were working on the boat).
But that's all I'm saying.... those are examples of perfectly legit businesses, that happen to hire illegals. Hence, my point... it happens every day. Just cuz they're not hanging out outside of Home Depot doesn't mean it's not still happening, and with legit businesses, not only drug runners.
They are still doing a lot of the jobs that the rest of us don't want to do. Well-to-do suburban white kids aren't going to fill those jobs. So when the labor pool dips too low, the whole shipping of illegals back to Mexico will cease again. It's cyclical.

Step 1. GOP gets their hair all in a furor about illegals.
Step 2. Some crazed Representative passes some bs law.
Step 3. They start cracking down and sending them back by the trainload.
Step 4. Labor pool dips to "frightening" levels.
Step 5. Suburban lawns start to over grow and die off.
Step 6. Stupid law gets removed or forgotten. Police are told to ease up.

It's not going to change.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17064585)

again, you assume too much. I identified myself and then he ran my plate and after I heard my name on his radio I still refused to produce my ID. Again, you can split hairs all you want to salvage your ego, but the fact remains people like you stated in your post that you will easily sacrifice your liberty for security. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17064698)

I would have given law enforcement my ID.



Simple. I would tell the tenet the cops are outside and go deal with it. If he refused I would let the cops in.

What you fail to understand was the cop manipulation they were trying for. Running my vehicle plate on private property hoping it came back as my tenets so they would have probable cause. Simple. Be straight up with me and I'll be straight up with you. Don't hassle me or I will resist and question your authority.

Second, I don't need you to tell me about the law and rights or even law enforcement. I am a son of a cop and grew up hearing stories about citizen abuse with laughter. Matter of fact, my own father build a $250k house on a cops salary in Calabasas in 1981. :winkwink:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17064827)

My personal opinion is they should raise law enforcement salaries to get the very best like they do in Alaska, but until that happens I will always view/question all cops with tainted glasses:2 cents:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17064827)

Honestly, that made me laugh. Most cops would not answer that until they finished questioning you or they would actually detain you. Look you sound like you might have been a good/great cop, but my point is cops don't need anymore control or authority.

So to get it back to topic: If that law goes into effect how long do you think it's going to take a before cops flip whole neighborhoods into informants with threats of sending "American" kids illegal alien parents back to wherever? This means there will be a lot of innocent poor people sitting in jails because some kid did not want his parents deported.

My personal opinion is they should raise law enforcement salaries to get the very best like they do in Alaska, but until that happens I will always view/question all cops with tainted glasses:2 cents:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17064597)

If you get caught here you lose your ability to do business in the State of AZ, to get a lic for contractors or some insurance crap for it, and you get a hell of a fine.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17064875)

You understand that these things are nothing more than minor inconveniences.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17064887)

They just busted a transportation company that was setup by an illegal, that hired illegals to transport illegals.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17063938)

You people have some odd views.... what about the laws? It's illegal, to be here illegally. Let's not forget the most basic thing here - they're criminals

Originally Posted by woj (Post 17064958)

I never understood why people are so vocal about this issue. Sure they are breaking the law, but so what? Labeling them as "criminals" is a bit of a stretch, what have they done to you that you hate them so much?

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17064918)

The trouble is, there is absolutely no disincentive for them to not do the exact same thing again. Or some other similar plan. Busting them and shipping them back over the border does nothing but provide them with an education on what NOT to do next time to avoid getting caught again.

These half baked "illegal enforcement" laws are bullshit. Nothing but posturing.

If they really wanted to stop illegals from crossing over, put up a fucking wall on the border, staff it with guards and be done. It's not rocket science.

And I mean a real wall. Make it thirty feet high with the top wrapped in military grade electrified concertina wire, guard turrets, cameras, gigantic warning signs, the works.

Would certainly cost much less than all this dick chasing we've engaged in forever.

Originally Posted by The Demon (Post 17064961)

So we call them criminals because we hate them? What you just said was insanely idiotic. We call them criminals because they broke the law. Not "so what". Douche.

Originally Posted by woj (Post 17064958)

I never understood why people are so vocal about this issue. Sure they are breaking the law, but so what? Labeling them as "criminals" is a bit of a stretch, what have they done to you that you hate them so much?

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17064965)

I'm not sure at the fed level... but at the AZ state level, the law that is waiting to be signed puts national guard at the border and has plans to complete the wall, 3 layer deeps in some areas, wire, cameras, and so on. It says something like, the troops stay until the border is once again secure.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17064980)

National Guard is a part of the military. The United States Military is not to be used as a domestic police force. It's the law. It will never pass.

We have the most technologically advanced, best equipped, deadliest, well-trained, elite fighting military machine on the face of the Earth. They cannot be used to police a border with a country we have no argument with.

But we could Federally authorize the building of said wall, and put the actual, you know, Border Patrol on the job of monitoring it.

Originally Posted by woj (Post 17064967)

So you call someone who speeds or smokes a little weed a "criminal" too?

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17064984)

"Governors may call upon Soldiers and Airmen to assist in community support, disaster relief and other local emergencies."

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17064986)

At a federal level if you were busted for having pot, then that's your problem, you're a criminal. At the state level if it's legal, I have no issues. Being that I respect that the states can control the laws.

Speeding is not criminal unless it's reckless and such.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17065003)

The key word there is "emergencies".

But policing the U.S./Mexico border as an accepted permanent daily role for them is something else entirely. That's Border Patrol's duty.

Originally Posted by woj (Post 17065008)

Criminal = guilty of crime.
Crime = unlawful activity

Someone speeding is as much of a criminal as an illegal immigrant. Except illegal immigrants are pretty harmless, on the other hand, speeding puts people's lives in danger. So why do people care about illegal immigrants, while other forms of crime are not a problem?

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17065021)

Break it down how you like... but speeding isn't under the criminal code, it's civil - they are vastly different. Not paying the fine for speeding would be criminal though.

Harmless? Murder, drug/gun running, human trafficking is harmless?

Originally Posted by woj (Post 17065036)

Murderers, drug runners and human traffickers are obviously criminals and should be dealt with, but what does that have to do with the detail of whether they are legal or illegal immigrants? What do those criminals have to do with for example some illegal mexican who works as a gardener for some landscaping company? Illegal immigrant like that seems harmless, no?

Originally Posted by woj (Post 17065036)

Murderers, drug runners and human traffickers are obviously criminals and should be dealt with, but what does that have to do with the detail of whether they are legal or illegal immigrants? What do those criminals have to do with for example some illegal mexican who works as a gardener for some landscaping company? Illegal immigrant like that seems harmless, no?

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17065149)

you have to pay for an American that can't get a job, extra taxes.... when does it stop?

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 17065094)

..............

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17065003)

The key word there is "emergencies".

But policing the U.S./Mexico border as an accepted permanent daily role for them is something else entirely. That's Border Patrol's duty.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17065152)

What about all the actual Americans that can't (or won't) get a job or pay taxes?
Wasn't the percentage reported recently something like, 40% of Americans are paying ALL the taxes?

Illegals are hardly the problem. At least the illegals aren't sucking the welfare & unemployment coffers dry like the non-working, non-tax paying Americans.

Originally Posted by theking (Post 17065156)

The National Guard has previously been deployed to the border for an extended period of time and by all accounts were a very successful deterrent while they were there.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 17065157)

Well the people that can't, I support the social programs that support them and for everyone that has worked, they paid into those programs to use them, so I support that too. The people that won't, I can't solve other than through my votes. And people that don't pay taxes, we have laws for.

People that legally don't have to pay taxes, I support... I know several people that have setup life so only one person pays taxes and they pay none... statistics, pfft.

30 million illegals and you don't think that's a problem? Have you looked at the State of California?

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 17065168)

I'm not suggesting that the illegal immigration isn't a problem. I'm saying it's not THE problem. It's a symptom. Fix the cause and the symptom goes away.

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane (Post 17064124)

The day you are forced to carry ID, is the day you lost WW2.

Originally Posted by woj (Post 17065036)

Murderers, drug runners and human traffickers are obviously criminals and should be dealt with, but what does that have to do with the detail of whether they are legal or illegal immigrants? What do those criminals have to do with for example some illegal mexican who works as a gardener for some landscaping company? Illegal immigrant like that seems harmless, no?