It might clarify a lot of the legal gray areas of the DMCA...

With this new evidence chances of google getting fucked in the ass in court are now significantly higher. Go Viacom! I surely hope they'll win bigtime.

you are an idiot

there is no way this "evidence" is going to hurt google

the best this proves is at that time youtube BELIEVED that they were built on unauthorized copyright material

and they believed they should look into doing more to stop it

however all they have to do is argue that belief was a mistake something that is so so easy given the fact that viacomm sent take down notices for over 50 videos that had nothing to do with their content



and the eff found of 1762 additional ones that were in fact fair use uses of content when they put up a video calling to action to identify those wrongfully taken down.

the fact that viacom screwed up and "accidently" took down tons of non infringing content completely blunts this evidence

because all google has to say was is "while back then we BELIEVED that it was based on infringing content, we didn't fully realize how much fair use and completely unrelated content would be taken down by BOGUS take down request

The only way free express of all the fair use authorized use of content would be to keep the current takedown and response notification"

hell they could even be smart and make some kind of offer that say we will implement the keyword type filtering if viacom would agree to pay any person whos video was taken down 1 million dollars.

i would tell you if viacom agreed to such a deal i would make as many videos as i could that would be caught by that filter that absolutely were fair use authorized just to get the money.

Hey gideongallery you claimed that:
I would be very interested to know how. Let me know what I need to do to get that ball rolling. And if you could please give me just one reference of a successful established content producer that you have taught your method and is now making more money than ever before and then I am ready to do business with you.

I will await your answer and I'm looking forward to having you show me this. I'd like to see our industry start making money again. It's depressing to go to the shows now and see that sponsors can't really afford to do the things they used to do. And to see that more and more studios are cutting production. And that everyone from affiliates to affiliate reps all the way down to talent and shooters are all barely getting by.

So if you REALLY can do this. If somehow you are smarter than me and every major production studio in the world...then I think it's time for you to stop posting vague b.s. on GFY and start showing us step by step how your method works.

Of course first please show me ONE reference of one person in the porn industry who you have just taught your method to and now is making money the way we did just a scant two years ago before piracy was so widespread.

And please hurry. My paysite does great because I don't allow people to steal my shit. But the couple hundred affiliate programs that I promote on my TGP's don't know how to do it and I can't seem to make a sale to them anymore when their entire members areas are available for free.

Thanks in advance for saving us gideon.

you know the people i have been teaching are independent musicans so your specifically putting a condition you know i can't meet just to try and make the bogus claim i don't know what i am talking about

the funny thing is you already have an open deal for me to show you 5 step plan
just agree to put every bit of your content into the public domain if you use any of the techniques i show everyone how to leverage the new marketplace for free.

all your competitors would benefit and you would be the only person stuck with your backwards way of doing things.

I make money from other people's content on youtube. How? By using their content to send traffic to their site, lol.

I managed a few sales from twistys a long time ago from a video i uploaded to youtube. threw my shortened affil. url in the description. a year later, i had 50 bucks to show for what was like 3 1/2 minutes of work. <3 youtube.

Might it be fair to say that porn and music are two different things and don't have the same market share?

Music you can get residual income from. You can give away your entire album if you want and then still make money selling tickets to live shows, T-shirts and other merchandise. It can also help you grow word of mouth. If someone hears your songs they might recommend them to a friend or a co-worker etc.

Porn isn't really the same thing. You give away a little in hopes of selling access to it all. If you give it all away you can sell other products like dating and cams and sex toys, but the product pool is pretty shallow and word of mouth doesn't benefit you that greatly. I have never had anyone tell me about a great porn movie they have seen and even if they are telling their friends those friends just want free access. With porn it is all about the sex. Once that is out of the bag it pretty much is over and you don't have a whole lot left to offer the customer.

100% of all the techniques were developed by doing test with cheap adult content
the techniques are about small virtually insignificant changes in the production and post production of your content that turns torrents and tubes into just another sales funnel, when your content is shared.

if anything the techniques will work better in porn because they are closer to the raw test

If this is true and you can provide proof of these claims there are a lot of people on this board and in this industry that would line your pockets with cash. I'm sure there are many programs who would give you a very large cut of any profit you made and there are others who would pay you a nice flat fee if you could make them money the way you say you can.

Robbie has already said as much. Show him some proof and it sounds like he is ready to work with you to make some nice money and he is just the tip of the iceberg. Torrents have everyone's panties in a knot, if you know how to monetize them as you say you do you should be standing knee deep in cash and if you aren't, I would wonder why.

Google will win, but this case will usher in a new debate over copyright protection.

Kane just stated exactly what I am offering. But as you saw in gideons response to me, he would rather keep fighting with me instead of actually doing it.

His only "offer" to me was to sign an agreement that would be a lose/lose for me. He wants me to put up all my work in "public domain" if he is able to do what he says.

So IF he could do it I lose, and if he can't I gain nothing. Sorry gideon, but that's not how business is done.

And what kane is saying is 100% true. Music and porn are a vastly different sell. And in case you didn't notice...music sales are still decimated. That industry lost almost all the jobs it once had and is almost non-existant compared to what it was a few years ago.

I'm not talking about Radiohead being the first to pull it off and make money. I'm talking about an entire industry that doesn't exist for the most part anymore. Tens of thousands of jobs lost. Everyone from A&R people all the way down to cleaning companies who once had a gig cleaning the record stores that no longer exist. And everything in between, including all the bands who will never even bother to try to make it because there is no apparent incentive financially anymore.

That's why I posted and was willing to do REAL business if you could back up your claim in any way for our industry. If you can't then don't you think it's kind of foolish for you to make statements that you can't really back up?

Just a heads up but youtube was built and designed to sell. It was always about the money and that is well documented. I doubt they can hide behind that part of it.

gideon, instead of having you guys run around trying to find legal loopholes to take other people's work, wouldn't it just be easier for you guys to get job so you can afford to pay a couple bucks for a song or movie? Just seems like a lot of work debating something that shouldn't be a big deal.

:2 cents::thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsu p

but your offer is an even worse lose lose for me
the only way you would produce a porn related proof like you want (build a company up to make more money then 2 years ago) before you would even consider paying me one cent would require me to stop taking paying jobs and work for free for someone just to give you proof.

our base package is only 5k flat fee (with a money back guarrentee)+ 10% of all revenue generated, the only condition if if you use the techniques i show you in the base after asking for the money back all the content so changed is put in the public domain.

you don't want to take the standard deal
you argue that i am completely wrong (therefore you would fall into the catagory of people who asked for their money back)

my biggest problem is that you can't be trusted the fact is you argued that product placement was impossible there was no way shape or form it could work in porn

yet you have the gaul to claim that your innovative/creative for copying waynes world product placement in your own video

and you still fail to give credit to me for pointing out product placement would work in a porn video.

your just as likely to pull the same shit again.

so working with you would be a lose/lose/lose deal for me

so fucking what

the big studios have been ass rapping the content creators for years the 90% you pay all production cost out of your 10% deals are the reason why they are failing

independent artist can make more money by leveraging the new distribution schema because they are not giving away 90% off the top

guess what this industry has the same sort of ass raping going on

actual content producers like dean capture get what 2k per scene for something that would generate 30-50k for twistys

if dean can get 6k per scene who the fuck cares if twistys loses 30k.

that being said there are ways for twistys to keep making 30-50k per scene and still let dean make his extra 4k.

There are ways for them to increase their revenue by 10-20%.

but the real winners of such a shift are the small guys.

remember the vcr again. the biggest winners were the small porn companies who shot on video camera, the guys who shot on film went out of business.

you tube sucks not enough porn

Thanks gideon. That's what I thought you would say. Too bad. As already pointed out, if you actually had anything...every company in this business would become your client and you would be a rich man. They are all hurting and making far less than they did just 2 years ago because of this situation.

But thanks for clearing it up again to all the folks on GFY that you are just another of the hundreds of clowns on this board who aren't really in this business and like to talk big with nothing more than a keyboard to fulfill their fantasies of importance.

and you wonder why i don't want to help you out in any way shape or form. bullshit like fraudlently misrepesenting what i am saying. if the choice is dealing with a scumbag who will make such misrepresentations, ans claim his is creative/innovative when all he is doing is stealing someone elses ideas and waiting until fair use rights of commentary and new fair uses right of access shifting make torrent and tube sites 100% legal. i will wait.

the simple fact i can wait because i am making more than enough money from my 10% royalties helping independent artist who were getting ass raped by the studios you were crying over make way more money on their own.

for the record it not put it in the public domain if i can do what i say, it if i can do what i can say and you like a scumbag take it and use it.

you can keep doing what your doing forever. The only way you would be hurt by such an offer is if the techniques not only do what i say but they also make your lock down everything mentality such a suckers deal that all your customer would rather got to companies using my techniques then signup to your "what would be in the new marketplace" piece of shit site.

unlike you i don't have to misquote you completely to make that point

your real words do that perfectly

I second that. :2 cents:

So gideon. I give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to show us the methods and make some money. But instead of showing anybody here any proof at all...you call me a "scumbag"

You know, I tried to reach out here and give you a shot at legitimacy on the chance that maybe you might have a great idea that could work.

But instead you are insulting me and fail to show any way at all that your ideas could even remotely work.

But that has been what you've done since the first time I said "prove it". You have said it's beneath you to actually make your idea work in adult because it's not enough money for you.

And yet you seem to have plenty of time to argue that you somehow know more about marketing than any of us...and yet you have absolutely no proof or example of your method working.

I will take your insulting words and turn the other cheek once more:
Here you go gideongallery. Prove me wrong. It's so easy. You could buy some cheap content and throw up a paysite with minimum outlay and be making tens of thousands of dollars a month with your technique and then throw it in my face.

And then me and every company on the planet would hire you and make you a rich man.

So here is my hand in friendship. Prove your theories and let's make money together.

so your definition of reaching out is making up a bogus quote and fraudlently attributing it to me

That why i called you a scumbag


you go out of your way to misquote me and insult and then expect me to help you make money :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

nice definition of "friendship"

actually i pointed out i make way more money in mainstream selling my services doing the proof you want would lose me money

i offered to lose money in that way just to prove it to you just so long as you don't get any benefit and that where the your content goes into the public domain if you use the techniques condition came from

to this date you refuse to accept.

so basically your holding up the solution for all your "friends" because you don't want to be left out of a solution you supposedly believe doesn't exist.

wow with friends like that who needs enemies

If he were serious and actually capable of doing what he claims he could even approach people off the boards, have them sign a non-disclosure contract and show them the proof that way. Then a person could simply post and say, "I have seen the numbers and it works he is 100% correct." without giving away any secrets.

If he could do this and prove it every media company in the world would want him. There are huge companies like Sony, Paramount, Universal, Disney and many others who are all freaking out about torrents. If a person went to them and showed them how to make money from the torrents that person would be swimming in the money they would earn.

These are fortune 500 companies who have access to the best business and technology minds in the world and yet still haven't figured out how to profit using torrents. If Gideon walked in and showed them how it was done they would give him just about anything that he wanted.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. Why in a million years would he agree to turn all his content over into the public domain and get zero benefit or profit from it just so you can show him how you would make money with it? It is a no win situation for him.

If you do what you say you can do then he doesn't benefit from it, his competition does and all his content is out there for free. If you can't do it, he didn't benefit from it and all his content is still out there for free.

The only real benefit is that if you actually did as you claim you can and proved it then he could always get more content, start another site and use your techniques to make money with this new content, but there is no guarantee that it would work.

So basically, you are asking a guy to give away something he has spent a lot of money creating just to give you the chance of showing that you are actually capable of doing what you claim.

Try this in the mainstream world. Go to Sony records and tell them that you will show them how to make ton of money off of torrents, but in exchange for this knowledge they will have to turn their entire record catalog over to the public domain. They could use your techniques in the future, just not right now. The good news is that they will be taking it for the team and all their direct competition will get to benefit from their loss and the entire industry will see how great torrents really are. They get to be the martyr that saved the industry.

They would have you thrown out of the building.

This discussion is making me dizzy. What was this thread about?

Okay gideongallery. You win bud.

I'll leave it to everybody that reads this to make up their own minds. Me? I'm just gonna walk the walk while you talk the talk. Enjoy your meaningless prattle. :)

Indeed, and if the first and largest was taken down this would certainly be a benifit to all paysites :thumbsup

Annoyingly, a cpl of the large adult paysite companies do have tubes of their own & use it to create the sales they get. But most certainly Sony & other large mainstream companies shall probably get involved with this. :2 cents:

:thumbsup Thats why I am keeping my comments simple & not getting into the DMCA dealings. Tubes & torrents are bad news & someone needs to shut them down.

and youtube??? under the water! :thumbsup

do you not understand what the word if means

go back up and look at what i said, i said IF he uses the techniques he must put any content that uses those techniques into the public domain

not that he must put it in the public domain BEFORE i show him the techniques

the only thing it does is prevent him from taking the techniques and pretending he came up with them on his own.


no i am saying that he has to keep doing what he claims is working, and NOT use the techniques i am showing everyone.

he can't simply copy the changes i show one of the competitors and claim that he innovated the solution (ala his product placement i am creative for copying wayne's world bs)

well duh
that why i didn't say that

like i have now said 3 times he only has to put his content into the public domain if he uses the techniques
keep doing what he is currently doing he fine his content stays as exclusive as he has always been.
The only thing it prevents him from doing is taking the techniques and pretending that he figuired them out on his own.

the funny part is you quoted the statement when you made this Assinine reply

So gideon...does this mean that "no" you can't do it for adult? :1orglaugh

just got caught up on this thread. been busy doing actual work (not just talking about how i would make so much money off some techniques i cant prove)

someone who talks as much as gideon is all talk. otherwise he wouldnt have to say anything. everybody would already know what he can do. this is a small industry. anyone who can actually deliver results gets known fast.

the guy, in my opinion, is full of shit and living in his mom's basement. yea he can probably afford to go out and buy cheap beer with his friends once or twice a week with his "music industry royalties", but he aint rolling in dough. successful guys are too damn busy.

in the years i've been reading gfy, gideon has only been known for one thing - being totally full of shit.

i'm with Robbie. prove yourself or stfu.

ok robbie
i will show you how to do it under the cc-sa licience

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/legalcode

take it to your lawyer and ask him what the consequence of instructions on how to change your content is when distributed under cc-sa.


so an average of 15 minutes a day is to much time talking.

robbie spends more time on this board than i do

and so do you.

lool :thumbsup

flawed argument.
compare your post count to mine.
same signup date (oddly lol) :thumbsup

my comment was that u write so much bs about how u are an expert but u prove nothing and have done nothing.

i do however understand your public domain point regarding Robbie's content. it has to go into the public domain to be promoted on torrents.

more importantly tho i understand his hesitation about taking the risk of releasing his content to a guy who can't prove himself and has no industry clients that can vouch for his credibility.

your skills are unknown but you talk so much about how u know everything.

it been a standard offer since the very begining if robbie agrees to put his content into the public domain IF he steals the techniques he claimed will never work i will show you all how to do it.

Robbies choice not mine.

you don't have to release the content into the public domain to use those techniques.

fair use friendly liciencing is not ONLY public domain

that was only a penalty if robbie acts like a scumbag steals the ideas/techniques and prevents he came up with them on his own (just like he did with his product placement and i am creative bs)

again he doesn't have to put his content into the public domain to use see my/our techniques he just has to agree that he will never use them.

if he steals them then his content is public domain.



your skills are unknown but you talk so much about how u know everything.[/QUOTE]

we are talking about one tiny aspect of the entire game. It plugs one hole that is currently a problem
i have never claimed an expertise in all areas or running a pay site. It one of the reasons why the buy some content and make a paysite and prove it to us bs or robbie is unreasonable. I would have to spend a lot of time learning things outside the scope of my core focus. Failing lots of times with content creation, design etc just to get the basic foundation that already exists.

i didn't write my own single and make myself a music star to prove that it could be done.
I will not play a fixed game designed to waste my time.

for anyone still paying attention to gideon, please go watch bugs burn on lightbulbs , you will be much better off and likely learn something.

Gideons "facts" are nothing more than figments of his own imagination. Take a look at his sig line for proof of this. "fair use is never a copyright infringement" it says. Fair use is decided on a case by case basis on all the facts. Calling something "fair use" is not a legal basis for anything . replace "copyright infringment" with "murder" and "fair use" with "self defense"
murder is always a crime but self defense is never a murder
hogwash double talk :) calling something self defense doesn't mean it is or will be accepted.


The Supreme Court of the United States described fair use as an affirmative defense in Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music. This means that, in litigation on copyright infringement, the defendant bears the burden of raising and proving that his use was "fair" and not an infringement.

i've been thinking about making a rap album. maybe i'll hit u up lol

I uploaded a tiny sarah silverman clip on my youtube account once and it was taken down so fast per complaints from Viacom.

You're a music star now? Or are you saying you could do this just to prove it could be done but have chosen not to?

we have had this arguement before your trying to twist a statement about scope changes to try and argue that the fundamental principle of legal precedent doesn't apply to fair use.

once the precedent is set a fair use is established, pvr did have to go back into court and fight their way to the supreme court again to "prove" they had a right to timeshift just like a vcr.


do you even bother reading


no independent musican demanded that i make myself a rockstar before they would even consider, i don't have the talent to do that.

however people like robbie keep saying things like buy 10k worth of content and make a multimillion dollar pay site and then we will listen to you.

the principles were tested using adult content and then adapted to work for musicans because of certain commonalities. they work for musicians (which was the stretch) since it only worked for porn.