Call me a dumbass. Someone please explain hosting for me. Thanks.

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  • tonyparra
    Confirmed User
    • Jul 2008
    • 4568

    #1

    Call me a dumbass. Someone please explain hosting for me. Thanks.

    Is ram, bandwidth, memory, and data transfer all the same thing?

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  • chupachups
    Confirmed User
    • Dec 2002
    • 6576

    #2
    ram = memory
    bandwidth usage = amount of used traffic, f.ex 330gb (which is about one mbit constant for a month)

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    • baddog
      So Fucking Banned
      • Apr 2001
      • 107089

      #3
      Originally posted by tonyparra
      Is ram, bandwidth, memory, and data transfer all the same thing?
      ram = memory
      bandwidth = data transfer

      Comment

      • papill0n
        Unregistered Abuser
        • Oct 2007
        • 15547

        #4
        your hardrive stores your ram and the bandwidth is like the ozone layer

        Comment

        • kush
          Confirmed User
          • Feb 2001
          • 3382

          #5
          Here's some useful questions...

          With dedicated servers, how do you know when you need hardware upgrades? How to differentiate server speed vs speed of your network's bandwidth?

          How do you know the difference between needing more RAM, or maybe a faster processor?

          What percent of memory do you want free during peak or average usage times?
          Last edited by kush; 03-17-2010, 08:47 PM.

          Comment

          • tonyparra
            Confirmed User
            • Jul 2008
            • 4568

            #6
            Originally posted by kush
            Here's some useful questions...

            With dedicated servers, how do you know when you need hardware upgrades? How to differentiate server speed vs speed of your network's bandwidth?

            How do you know the difference between needing more RAM, or maybe a faster processor?

            What percent of memory do you want free during peak or average usage times?

            High Performance Vps $10 Linode
            Manage your Digital Ocean, Linode, or Favorite Cloud Server. Simple, fast, and secure Server Pilot

            Comment

            • epitome
              So Fucking Lame
              • Jun 2009
              • 12156

              #7
              Originally posted by kush
              Here's some useful questions...

              With dedicated servers, how do you know when you need hardware upgrades? How to differentiate server speed vs speed of your network's bandwidth?

              How do you know the difference between needing more RAM, or maybe a faster processor?

              What percent of memory do you want free during peak or average usage times?
              Slow sites = memory upgrade...it's almost certain not to be the network unless you're using some two bit host.

              As for processor, I don't know ... but my general rule of thumb is to double RAM one and then if your sites slow, upgrade to a better server. I don't even know if that's the right thing to do but it works great for me.

              For the third question, I don't know ... but your sites should be fast.

              Use webwait.com. If your site takes more than 3 seconds to load then it's too slow and you may be losing surfers. If you're running a blog and it's slow, kill plugins and it will drastically improve. I got a blog down from 7 to 2 by doing that. 3 seconds is the worst you want, try to keep it under 2 seconds. It it totally possible to get it under 1 second but you're typically not going to lose surfers if it's under 3.

              Comment

              • tonyparra
                Confirmed User
                • Jul 2008
                • 4568

                #8
                Originally posted by baddog
                ram = memory
                bandwidth = data transfer
                ok. got that. how do you choose the right amount of each? Im assuming its all based on traffic and what they do while on your site.

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                • baddog
                  So Fucking Banned
                  • Apr 2001
                  • 107089

                  #9
                  Originally posted by tonyparra
                  ok. got that. how do you choose the right amount of each? Im assuming its all based on traffic and what they do while on your site.
                  Well, the bandwidth is going to be determined by what kind of site you have, how many people are visiting and how long they are staying.

                  As far as how much RAM to get, more is better. You can not have enough, but it is difficult to have too much. If you have a 32 bit OS then you can start with 1, but if you have 64 bit, you had better have two.

                  Comment

                  • ThumbLord
                    Confirmed User
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 1932

                    #10
                    dumbass.

                    well you asked for it.
                    We Sell Domains | ThumbLords | ICQ 128106905 | TubeLords | Traffic Holder | eRoken

                    Comment

                    • rowan
                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                      • Mar 2002
                      • 17393

                      #11
                      Bandwidth is NOT the same as transfer.

                      Bandwidth is the size of the link that your data goes through.

                      Transfer is how much data you've actually transferred through that link.

                      Comment

                      • Barefootsies
                        Choice is an Illusion
                        • Feb 2005
                        • 42635

                        #12
                        Originally posted by epitome
                        Slow sites = memory upgrade...it's almost certain not to be the network unless you're using some two bit host.

                        As for processor, I don't know ... but my general rule of thumb is to double RAM one and then if your sites slow, upgrade to a better server. I don't even know if that's the right thing to do but it works great for me.

                        For the third question, I don't know ... but your sites should be fast.

                        Use webwait.com. If your site takes more than 3 seconds to load then it's too slow and you may be losing surfers. If you're running a blog and it's slow, kill plugins and it will drastically improve. I got a blog down from 7 to 2 by doing that. 3 seconds is the worst you want, try to keep it under 2 seconds. It it totally possible to get it under 1 second but you're typically not going to lose surfers if it's under 3.
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                        Comment

                        • kush
                          Confirmed User
                          • Feb 2001
                          • 3382

                          #13
                          Originally posted by epitome
                          Slow sites = memory upgrade...it's almost certain not to be the network unless you're using some two bit host.

                          As for processor, I don't know ... but my general rule of thumb is to double RAM one and then if your sites slow, upgrade to a better server. I don't even know if that's the right thing to do but it works great for me.

                          For the third question, I don't know ... but your sites should be fast.

                          Use webwait.com. If your site takes more than 3 seconds to load then it's too slow and you may be losing surfers. If you're running a blog and it's slow, kill plugins and it will drastically improve. I got a blog down from 7 to 2 by doing that. 3 seconds is the worst you want, try to keep it under 2 seconds. It it totally possible to get it under 1 second but you're typically not going to lose surfers if it's under 3.
                          Good logical info, thanks!

                          Comment

                          • SmokeyTheBear
                            ►SouthOfHeaven
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 28609

                            #14
                            Originally posted by baddog
                            bandwidth = data transfer
                            bandwidth != data transfer

                            bandwidth = "flow rate" of data transfer

                            data transfer = amount of data transferred
                            hatisblack at yahoo.com

                            Comment

                            • baddog
                              So Fucking Banned
                              • Apr 2001
                              • 107089

                              #15
                              Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
                              bandwidth != data transfer

                              bandwidth = "flow rate" of data transfer

                              data transfer = amount of data transferred
                              I felt for purposes of his question it would be easier for him to relate.

                              Comment

                              • raymor
                                Confirmed User
                                • Oct 2002
                                • 3745

                                #16
                                Originally posted by kush
                                Here's some useful questions...

                                With dedicated servers, how do you know when you need hardware upgrades? How to differentiate server speed vs speed of your network's bandwidth?

                                How do you know the difference between needing more RAM, or maybe a faster processor?

                                What percent of memory do you want free during peak or average usage times?
                                There are ways to tell exactly what your problems are and what needs to be done to fix them.
                                These things are fairly easy for a system administrator, but based on your posts I think you'd
                                need a sysadmin to check for you. The main tools are ssh, iostat, iotop, and top.

                                Most of the time, you don't actually NEED hardware upgrades, except if you run out of disk space.
                                Most of the time, you can instead choose to have a qualified person make a few configuration
                                changes so you're not wasting the capacity you already have. On a typical web server we can
                                reduce load by about 70% by simply using a few correct settings.
                                With most web hosts, the person you talk does is not what I mean by a qualified admin.
                                large hosts employ one or two people who really know what they are doing, plus a bunch of
                                people who have risen to the level of their incompetence. Small hosts normally do not have
                                a truly qualified sysadmin on staff, and instead call us or someone else as needed, if they
                                are forced to do so.

                                With modern processor speeds, most sites will be fine with any recent processor.
                                If you are overloading your CPU, it's almost always because of some really dumb MySQL/PHP,
                                where a PHP script is abusing the hell out of MySQL. Best to fix the script. More RAM is always
                                better. Linux will find ways to make use of any RAM you give it. You want a minimum of a GB.
                                4GB will handle most sites. If you need more than 4GB, your site is large enough for you to call
                                us and have us take a look at your actual system.
                                For historical display only. This information is not current:
                                support@bettercgi.com ICQ 7208627
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                                Comment

                                • Robocrop
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Aug 2008
                                  • 2785

                                  #17
                                  dumbass! :P

                                  Comment

                                  • SmokeyTheBear
                                    ►SouthOfHeaven
                                    • Jun 2004
                                    • 28609

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by baddog
                                    I felt for purposes of his question it would be easier for him to relate.
                                    granted he didn't know the difference between ram and bandwidth your explanation may have been better
                                    hatisblack at yahoo.com

                                    Comment

                                    • Dirty Dane
                                      Sick Fuck
                                      • Feb 2004
                                      • 9491

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by raymor
                                      With modern processor speeds, most sites will be fine with any recent processor.
                                      If you are overloading your CPU, it's almost always because of some really dumb MySQL/PHP, where a PHP script is abusing the hell out of MySQL. Best to fix the script. More RAM is always better.
                                      Remote or dedicated SQL server is also a good idea if websites and scripts depend heavily on it. Also for security reasons. + external CDN reduce loads, especially if you have bigger files.
                                      Last edited by Dirty Dane; 03-18-2010, 10:34 AM.

                                      Comment

                                      • KRosh
                                        So Fucking Outlawed
                                        • Nov 2001
                                        • 5114

                                        #20
                                        RAM

                                        ICQ 115433750

                                        Comment

                                        • raymor
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Oct 2002
                                          • 3745

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Dirty Dane
                                          Remote or dedicated SQL server is also a good idea if websites and scripts depend heavily on it. Also for security reasons. + external CDN reduce loads, especially if you have bigger files.
                                          Only IF the traffic and load justifies it, after optimizing settings and identifying any really poorly
                                          written queries which run often, and only if you don't mind "wasting" money paying for unused
                                          hardware. Why? Because two servers doubles the chance of failure. Say a single server has
                                          a 15% of hardware failure taking down the site this year. Add another required server and
                                          that roughly doubles the chance of a hardware failure taking down your site because now you
                                          are down if EITHER fails. Instead of a 15% (once every six years), it's now a 30% chance, or
                                          once every 3 years.

                                          Security wise, multiple servers can either double the chance of being hacked, or can greatly
                                          reduce the damage caused by a hack. That depends entirely on the expertise of the person
                                          setting them up. 95% of the time, doubling the amount of hardware simply doubles your
                                          exposure.

                                          Over the next couple of years we plan to put together a framework to fully leverage the power
                                          of a properly designed redundant cluster, where each server is more secure because
                                          it's locked down to only doing it's assigned tasks, and each is optimized for the tasks it
                                          performs. It IS possible, but more often than not it's done backwards - reducing overall
                                          performance and increasing exposure to risk.

                                          One perfect example of how it's often done wrong is that often people set up one server doing MySQL only and the other server doing everything else, primarily serving pics and videos on
                                          the web site, and they expect better performance. In fact, that's a performance killer and a
                                          waste of money. The SQL server uses the CPU, with minimal disk access - virtually no disk
                                          access if it has enough RAM. On the other hand, the web server, spitting out video files,
                                          loads the disk and uses almost no CPU. Splitting the two onto separate servers doesn't
                                          reduce overall load at all - it just means you now have one server that's CPU bound with
                                          an idle hard drive and another server that's drive bound with an idle CPU - waste. Putting
                                          them on the same server allows MySQL to use the CPU and Apache to use the disk, perfectly
                                          complimenting each other. Plus, on the same server Apache can more efficiently communicate
                                          with MySQL. On separate servers, all SQL queries have to be marshalled across the network,
                                          creating wasteful load on both machines. Performance wise, splitting them to separate servers
                                          has a significant cost which is justified only if you HAVE to, or if you're going to carefully optimize
                                          the hardware for each. (Example - one small, super fast SSD for the MySQL, and an array of
                                          large slow drives to store all of the web content.)
                                          For historical display only. This information is not current:
                                          support@bettercgi.com ICQ 7208627
                                          Strongbox - The next generation in site security
                                          Throttlebox - The next generation in bandwidth control
                                          Clonebox - Backup and disaster recovery on steroids

                                          Comment

                                          • Tjeezers
                                            Webmaster
                                            • Mar 2007
                                            • 16603

                                            #22
                                            was certainly not a stupid question!

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                                            Comment

                                            • fatfoo
                                              ICQ:649699063
                                              • Mar 2003
                                              • 27763

                                              #23
                                              Bandwidth would be the MBs people are uploading from the site.

                                              Let's say you have a picture on your site that is 1MB.

                                              Let's say five people go to your site and they each view the picture once.

                                              This means your bandwidth is 5MB.
                                              Last edited by fatfoo; 03-19-2010, 12:31 PM.
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