No politically biased bullshit - just an up or down vote.
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134Healthcare should be a privilege.0%43Healthcare is a human right.0%91 -
I think it should be a right.....everyone pays enough taxes...sales taxes and other fees so I think everyone should be entitled to healthcare. -
Not much of a divide so far...Comment
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It is a privilege, just like having a car and a nice house.Comment
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Where? In the US? Not a right. Is in some other countries, I hear.Comment
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on many issues i am republican. on the matter of health care, i support single payer. The current hybrid system is a train wreck.Comment
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Privilege...
I sure as fuck don't want my hard earned dollars paying for someone that doesn't work as hard as I do.
Catastrophic illness with massive medical expenses is another issue though. In those circumstances, it should be a right.
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should be a right, raise taxes and get it done i don't care.Comment
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It is not a right or a privilege. It is a combination of commodity and service. These are not things someone else should get to decide whether to grant or not. Would you ask whether warm clothes or a nice car are a right or a privilege?Comment
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Considering the current events this thread has a political debate written all over it, so cut the bullshit.
In my opinion, it depends on which country you live in. If you live in a socialist country you may feel it should be a right that EVERYONE deserves the exact same health care.
I live in the United States where we have a market without economic intervention and regulation by the government except to regulate against force or fraud. I wish there could be a bit more regulation to keep insurance companies in check, but that's the extent of it. The current proposed health overhaul that is being force fed to us is a fucking joke and so are the idiot democrats that stand behind it.
Anyways, that being said, life isn't always fair here. It's not a right to have the best possible care that collectively would cost this country 10s of trillions if you can't afford it. Our country isn't founded on the idea that we excessively tax and exploit the successful to cater to the unsuccessful and poor. That's a concept called socialism.
Last edited by NetHorse; 03-16-2010, 10:05 PM.┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
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It should be a privilege for rich white people only, paid for by the taxes of 'the others.' We'll just let the money and insurance trickle down to the under classes.
I'm all for corporations profiting billions on healthcare, while they increase rates and choose what they do and don't cover... Hell, exploiting each other/Americans is a founding principal our nation was built on.
/SarcasmMovement
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Oh I agree Doc, those rich white sons of bitches. The system is not perfect, so I totally agree, lets completely overhaul it and become Robin Hoods. Good point my friend.
Also, while we are at, I think those rich white bastards have more than enough money to go around so lets change a few other things. How come it's not a right to live and work here regardless of immigration status? Those poor poor illegal immigrants from Latin America just want jobs and a better life for their families. That's not fair for them. I say we let them all come over, give them free health care and social services. Fucking whitey built this nation so they can prosper while these poor people suffer.
And good lord, the crackheads who were born with crackhead parents in inner cities. Those poor poor fucking crackheads, life wasn't fair to them. I don't think free health care and welfare is enough for them, maybe we can buy them a house with central air and heat? It's the least those asshole rich white folks could do, I mean shouldn't it be a right, better yet, isn't it only fair they have a roof over their heads and heat in the winters?
And FUCK, while we are it, why can't everyone have the right to the best possible college education? I heard a lot of private universities like Harvard are so massive that they manage to run the entire university off just the interest from the money they yield each year. Those mother fuckers, profiting billions. Everyone should have the right to go to a prestigious university regardless of income, it's only fair.
Peace and love man. Love everyone and make everything fair maaaan, yeah duuude.
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I asked this of a friend today who is very much against any health care reform. I asked, "Isn't it supposed to be 'united we stand?' or is that only when we get attacked? Is it really 'united we stand, unless it could cost me a little bit of money to help you out then you're on your own?'"
I feel the right Vs. privilege thing comes down to taxes. If the government is going to tax us blind then I think it is okay for us to demand some kind of basic free health care. If they actually spent the tax money that they get from us wisely they could easily afford to do this, but alas, that never happens. If they want to lower taxes to a tiny little level, then I have no problem with them telling people you are on your own.Comment
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I guess a few other questions could be...
Is education a right or a privilege?
Is clean water a right or a privilege?
Is clean air a right or a privilege?
Is police protection a right or a privilege?
Is unemployment insurance, medicare, and social security a right or a privilege?
I can go on and on, but you get it right?
Should 50 cents of every dollar in the US go to the Pentagon budget? Is that money spent more efficiently?
In a way I hope healthcare does not change, and the insurance companies quadruple their rates over the next 2 years. Then you assholes who think the emergency room is already the answer for the uninsured, can finally reap what you sow....
Filled emergency rooms when YOU need help, and less people paying into the pool, so YOUR rates can FUCKING SKYROCKET!
Of course, instead, Obama will get this past, don't ask-don't-tell will be repealed, and you guys can enjoy Obama's second term in disgust, as your party offers NOTHING to the common man.
Sorry, I guess this is a political issue, as it is clearly NOT a moral one, because if it were, the idea that healthcare is a right, would be unanimous.
Hey righties - Jesus was a fucking socialist, so try to sort out your selective hatred okay?Last edited by BFT3K; 03-17-2010, 07:29 AM.Comment
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ALso this.Considering the current events this thread has a political debate written all over it, so cut the bullshit.
In my opinion, it depends on which country you live in. If you live in a socialist country you may feel it should be a right that EVERYONE deserves the exact same health care.
I live in the United States where we have a market without economic intervention and regulation by the government except to regulate against force or fraud. I wish there could be a bit more regulation to keep insurance companies in check, but that's the extent of it. The current proposed health overhaul that is being force fed to us is a fucking joke and so are the idiot democrats that stand behind it.
Anyways, that being said, life isn't always fair here. It's not a right to have the best possible care that collectively would cost this country 10s of trillions if you can't afford it. Our country isn't founded on the idea that we excessively tax and exploit the successful to cater to the unsuccessful and poor. That's a concept called socialism.
Greed is GoodComment
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HAHAHA this is one of the better, more thought out responses I've seen on this forum.Oh I agree Doc, those rich white sons of bitches. The system is not perfect, so I totally agree, lets completely overhaul it and become Robin Hoods. Good point my friend.
Also, while we are at, I think those rich white bastards have more than enough money to go around so lets change a few other things. How come it's not a right to live and work here regardless of immigration status? Those poor poor illegal immigrants from Latin America just want jobs and a better life for their families. That's not fair for them. I say we let them all come over, give them free health care and social services. Fucking whitey built this nation so they can prosper while these poor people suffer.
And good lord, the crackheads who were born with crackhead parents in inner cities. Those poor poor fucking crackheads, life wasn't fair to them. I don't think free health care and welfare is enough for them, maybe we can buy them a house with central air and heat? It's the least those asshole rich white folks could do, I mean shouldn't it be a right, better yet, isn't it only fair they have a roof over their heads and heat in the winters?
And FUCK, while we are it, why can't everyone have the right to the best possible college education? I heard a lot of private universities like Harvard are so massive that they manage to run the entire university off just the interest from the money they yield each year. Those mother fuckers, profiting billions. Everyone should have the right to go to a prestigious university regardless of income, it's only fair.
Peace and love man. Love everyone and make everything fair maaaan, yeah duuude.
/end faggot hippie sarcasm.Greed is GoodComment
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No, you don't have the right to a higher education if you haven't earned it. Tax money shouldn't be spent on someone that is not trying. If it's a person that has busted their ass to get good grades , then yes, I say let the government help them, I don't think the same should go to someone that has mediocre grade, we need gardeners too!
Yes, our taxes and water fees should cover clean water, where in this country are people forced to drink dirty water? Or should the government hand out Dasani?Is clean water a right or a privilege?
Yes, the way manufacturing plants trade on dirty air is pretty twisted. The EPA does a pretty good job for what they haveIs clean air a right or a privilege?
No, are you going to tell me that a cop can protect someone living in the country the same way with the same response time for someone in the city. When they need minutes to get there, I'm glad for gun right rightsIs police protection a right or a privilege?
Those are rights
Is unemployment insurance, medicare, and social security a right or a privilege?
No not really, different subjects, you get that right?
I can go on and on, but you get it right?
50 cents of every dollar? I don't think it's that high, I think we have a need to keep our military strong and with the best in equipment to protect them. Just like all government programs, they spend way too much on things, LIKE THEY WILL ON HEALTHCAREShould 50 cents of every dollar in the US go to the Pentagon budget? Is that money spent more efficiently?
the health-care system needs reform, that's a given, but shoving 2700 pages of regulations and yet to written rules is hardly the answer and forgive people that think this scares them, it's the unknown that scares people and 2700 pages of something no one has read yet is pretty much UNKNOWNIn a way I hope health-care does not change, and the insurance companies quadruple their rates over the next 2 years. Then you assholes who think the emergency room is already the answer for the uninsured, can finally reap what you sow....
Filled emergency rooms when YOU need help, and less people paying into the pool, so YOUR rates can FUCKING SKYROCKET!
Of course, instead, Obama will get this past, don't ask-don't-tell will be repealed, and you guys can enjoy Obama's second term in disgust, as your party offers NOTHING to the common man.
Sorry, I guess this is a political issue, as it is clearly NOT a moral one, because if it were, the idea that health-care is a right, would be unanimous.
Hey righties - Jesus was a fucking socialist, so try to sort out your selective hatred okay?Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about thatComment
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BTW, I think gays should serve in the military. But they have to rewrite the UCMJ firstCarbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about thatComment
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Vendzilla, you're a Republican who wants and believes these are rights:
- unemployment insurance,
- social security,
- medicare,
- gays in the military
but education and police protection is a privilege
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Actually, people make this mistake quite commonly. Robin Hood didn't "steal from the rich and give to the poor". He actually stole from corrupt government officials working under the Sheriff of Nottingham that were unfairly taxing the people.
Just wanted to point that out.
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haha zingActually, people make this mistake quite commonly. Robin Hood didn't "steal from the rich and give to the poor". He actually stole from corrupt government officials working under the Sheriff of Nottingham that were unfairly taxing the people.
Just wanted to point that out.
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Unemployment insurance is just that, an insurance that employers pay and the government helps with
Social Security is something we pay into and hopefully get back when we retire as long as the government stops borrowing money from it
Medicare is something my mom is on and has earned
And gays should have the same rights as everyone else, including the military, I have served and my daughter is serving right now
I guess you didn't read what I wrote with an open mind. If you live in a city like LA, the response time for police protection is pretty short, but if you live in the country, to have everything equal, they should have a response of the same time. That won't work.
And yes, I don't believe someone that has coasted thru high school and has a C+ average should not have the same chances of a Government funded Scholarship as someone that has busted their ass to get a 4.0 GPA like my daughter. Education past high school should be earnedCarbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about thatComment
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That's very socialist of you.
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Interesting. Is that how you felt about the recent 8 years, when C student, and unfoundedly privileged, George W Bush was in charge? How did HIS healthcare plan work out for the American people? You know, when he had 8 years in the white house, 6 of which with a majority in congress?Comment
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Oh I agree Doc, those rich white sons of bitches. The system is not perfect, so I totally agree, lets completely overhaul it and become Robin Hoods. Good point my friend.
Also, while we are at, I think those rich white bastards have more than enough money to go around so lets change a few other things. How come it's not a right to live and work here regardless of immigration status? Those poor poor illegal immigrants from Latin America just want jobs and a better life for their families. That's not fair for them. I say we let them all come over, give them free health care and social services. Fucking whitey built this nation so they can prosper while these poor people suffer.
And good lord, the crackheads who were born with crackhead parents in inner cities. Those poor poor fucking crackheads, life wasn't fair to them. I don't think free health care and welfare is enough for them, maybe we can buy them a house with central air and heat? It's the least those asshole rich white folks could do, I mean shouldn't it be a right, better yet, isn't it only fair they have a roof over their heads and heat in the winters?
And FUCK, while we are it, why can't everyone have the right to the best possible college education? I heard a lot of private universities like Harvard are so massive that they manage to run the entire university off just the interest from the money they yield each year. Those mother fuckers, profiting billions. Everyone should have the right to go to a prestigious university regardless of income, it's only fair.
Peace and love man. Love everyone and make everything fair maaaan, yeah duuude.
/end faggot hippie sarcasm.
We aren't talking about social care, this is a discussion of healthcare.
You had a /SarcasmFail ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
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I suppose it all depends on what country you live in. If the health care system is set up correctly and everyone pays something into it then it's a right to access it. If it's set up so only those who can afford it get the quality care then it's a privilege.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about thatComment
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Not redirecting at all - just pointing out the blatant hypocrisy on the right. Now that the left is using some of the same methods that were previously used by the right, the world is coming to an end.
Only difference is the right used their power to rage an unnecessary war, and give tax breaks to the rich, and extra powers to the big corps, while the left is trying to insure uninsured Americans, and reign in the banks and corps that have been allowed to go crazy with power for the last 8 years.Comment
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How delusional and absolutely idiotic you are. And you have the temerity to criticize the right about following their party blindly and getting their facts from a biased source. I love the hypocrisy. What has the left done for us? Oh right, astronomical deficit spending and the destruction of the economy. Thanks for playing!Greed is GoodComment
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It should be a right, to certain degrees.
If you're got diabetes and are losing a leg because you're morbidly obese and lazy: that's your problem.
If you're poor as hell and sick - guess what - the hospitals already give you care and write it off by gouging us already.Comment
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Set aside the drama and face the facts. Social welfare is nothing new. There are generations of people that do nothing but collect from the rest of society.
Where I draw the line is my business. Which is exactly the point. I don't need or want the government to continue taking more from me and others who work hard for what we have only to waste it on more entitlement programs. Time has proven there is a segment of the population that has no desire to pull themselves out of the dismal lifestyle they live. They will die with their hands out expecting more.You might not be as anonymous as you think you are.Comment
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you have the right to go out and pay for the best healthcare you can affordI'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.Comment
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I own my own business as well. I do NOT collect ANY unemployment, social security, housing assistance, medicare, disability, food coupons, or ANYTHING that I do not pay for myself, DIRECTLY out of my own pocket.
Unlike many on the right however, I do not label the less fortunate as unambitious crackheads. I am certain there are plenty very lazy, useless fucks with money and privilege out there as well, so stereotyping is not going to fix anything.
A country is only as strong as it's weakest member. If you were born into poverty and abuse for example, without help, you would likely perpetuate the situation yourself.
A truly strong and rich person, should have a moral obligation to help the less fortunate, and do good... not squash them down further, to build yourselves up.
Maybe you are in good financial and physical condition right now, but everything can change tomorrow. The "Dems are pro-welfare" mantra gets pretty old...Last edited by BFT3K; 03-17-2010, 10:17 AM.Comment
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Even countries with decent, basic healthcare for all, allow their people to pay for outside care. Wealth will always provide more options.
If everyone in the US were to have some level of basic care, those with the means will still be able to pay for upgraded services.
It is not one-or-the-other, as the argument seems to come down to, for spin sake.Comment
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This is pretty much the best argument for universal health care. The amount of cash governments rake in from taxes and other shit should pretty much be a guarantee for the good health of its citizens. Gov still got no cash after taxes? Fire the idiots and hire someone else who can organize and prioritize their money better. Even if there's no money and the tards can't be fired, demand health anyway, you've pretty much bent over and paid for it already, they're just not delivering on a vital and imporant service that keeps a country's citizens strong and healthy. A strong and healthy population means a strong and healthy country. Seems like a no brainer, to me.
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Maybe so, to some extent, but that is not good enough. If we can build the biggest bombs in the world, then I believe we COULD build the best healthcare system in the world as well.
How many people IN THE US are deciding between healthcare and mortgage payments right now?
And the idea that everyone has healthcare because you can use hospital emergency rooms for non-emergency care, is hardly a sensible argument either.Comment
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