NATO forces in Afghanistan - no hope for a victory?

[just a punk]

Here is an interview with Amir Sultan Tarar (one of Taliban "fathers"): http://adm.rt.tv/Top_News/2010-03-03...ghanistan.html

Make sure to watch the whole interview. What do you think guys/girls, will the Afghanistan "democratized" to live that way on it's own, or the NATO military operation there is doomed?

I'm really interested to know what people from the USA, and satellite NATO countries are thinking about it.

[plugin]

If history is something to learn from, it is a futile war because none is going to win it but the Taliban. Even if the Nato and US troops stay in that war-ravaged country for another 10 years, it would make no difference

[SpongeBub]

The Taliban will wait them out. You cannot beat these people in their own country. And keep in mind that many have invaded Afghanistan in history but no one was able to hold it.

[combson]

I think that NATO has already lost the war. I have watched aweful episodes on National Geographic and the huge losses NATO is suffering

[CaptainHowdy]

I love Holy War...

[czarina]

they should learn from Viet Nam

[Antonio]

from a military point of view I don't think that the Russians lost the Afghan war; I don't think NATO will lose this war either, but in the long run this is a lost cause indeed

you can't go to another country and bomb them to democracy - hey, we just slaughtered 50 000 of your men, women and children, but we are your friends and you should do as we say

the much better way would've been doing something similar to what the Israelis did after the Munich games in 1972 and just hunting down Osama and whoever else planned 9/11

[just a punk]

The Russians rolled through that county and almost wiped out the whole population and had a different Military agenda then Americans do.

Not exactly. We call that "a strategy of lash and honey". On one hand, Soviet Army has really killed about 1 million of Afghans. On the other hand, Soviet engenders, medics and teachers have created a huge infrastructure in Afghanistan (roads, schools, hospitals, residential areas etc). So the big part of Afghans have joined the USSR against Taliban (the Pakistani organization which was created with direct guidance of CIA).

When the Soviet Army has left the Afghanistan (BTW, it wasn't a kind of panic flight, but an organized takedown according to Gorbachev's order), the national Soviet-oriented Afghan government was able to control almost the whole the country and resist to Taliban during many-many months. Actually they have been smashed only because the USSR has stopped to supply them with weapon and fuel. I.e. Soviets has left them alone without any support and even minimal help. You can consider it as a betrayal, but actually it was a consequence of "perestroyka" and collapsing of the whole Soviet system in Russia.

So here is a question. How many days it will take for Taliban to sweep of the US-oriented Afghan government when NATO will leave Afghanistan and when Russia will also stop to support with funds the pro-American Afghan government there?

[just a punk]

It that a rhetorical question? It's irrelevant because we can careless who does if we get BL.

BL = Bin Laden? The USA won't catch him in Afghanistan because he is not there. Furthermore, the USA are planing to completely pull back from the Afghanistan and that will be done regardless of the fact if Bin Laden will be caught or not. So I don't see any logic there. Or may bw you want to say the US army won't leave Afghanistan until Bin Laden will be caught/killed?

In truth, I personally don't think we are going anywhere because we are building an $800 million dollar embassy there at the moment. Just like the "green zone" in Iraq we built a Billion dollar embassy. In short, we will pull the troops out but there will always be military contractors there that are not bound by any rules of military engagement ie., corporate colonial gangsters.

Do you really think that military contractors will be able to resist against Taliban on their motherland?

[The Demon]

Whether it's lost or won is irrelevant. The fact that we have established a huge presence in the middle east is all that stands between Israel and radical Islam.

[femdomdestiny]

bullshit

And USA actually helped same those radical muslims and BL personally in Bosnian war.

[The Demon]

And USA actually helped same those radical muslims and BL personally in Bosnian war.

Really? And I suppose Xenu is real and scientology can be taken seriously?

[The Demon]

Not my point. The US military is using the excuse of invading (paving the way) because of the Taliban, BL, farmer John, whatever etc. Then the US builds a huge embassy for Corporate Colonialism. In short, a market franchise. Call me crazy, but I am willing to predict in the next 20 years the global market place will not be governed by countries but corporations.

Meaning, lets say that Lukoil, WalMart, and Nokia got together and formed a partnership. They put in a puppet (share the profits) president and supplies security contractors and then sold all the citizens of that country monopolized gas, cell phone service, and plastic shit made in China. Then these Companies insure the president they will provide roads and an infrastructure ETC.

In short, this Corporations Completely manage the country and share the profits to improve conditions and form/forge a new market place. Like what they are doing right now in Iraq. Did you know that the Iraqi government guaranteed the US 25% of their oil reserves for life?

I'm going to put this under the "9/11 was an inside job" conspiracy label. Throughout the past 60+ years, goals for US intervention on foreign soil have been two-fold. One of them was less of an exaggeration of what you just mentioned. The other one involves attempting to genuinely helping the populace.

[SmokeyTheBear]

The war was always hopeless, you can't force people to love/respect you through violence.

[The Demon]

No where not. All we are doing is planting a seed for future corporate wealth. Do you know why Americans are usually first to help people in the world? It's not because we generally want to "help" anyone government aid wise. Maybe the US citizens do for personal interests, but it's to insure our currency value. Why? Because our currency is not backed by assets but faith. We must keep up that 200 year old America is the best country in the world shit.

Yea no, unless of course you're going to sit there and claim that every intervention on foreign soil was purely for selfish reasons. In which case, I'll point out to the last 100 years...

[just a punk]

Not my point. The US military is using the excuse of invading (paving the way) because of the Taliban, BL, farmer John, whatever etc. Then the US builds a huge embassy for Corporate Colonialism. In short, a market franchise. Call me crazy, but I am willing to predict in the next 20 years the global market place will not be governed by countries but corporations.

Meaning, lets say that Lukoil, WalMart, and Nokia got together and formed a partnership. They put in a puppet (share the profits) president and supplies security contractors and then sold all the citizens of that country monopolized gas, cell phone service, and plastic shit made in China. Then these Companies insure the president they will provide roads and an infrastructure ETC.

In short, this Corporations Completely manage the country and share the profits to improve conditions and form/forge a new market place. Like what they are doing right now in Iraq. Did you know that the Iraqi government guaranteed the US 25% of their oil reserves for life?

Hmm, very interesting point of view. I can't say I agree with it but I also can't say anything the contrary. Because it's a kind of "lets wait and see" thing.

[femdomdestiny]

no

Really? And I suppose Xenu is real and scientology can be taken seriously?

I won't spend more words on your comment. If you still don't believe, do small reserach to see whose support they had there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJrNe...eature=related

....That Mahmud Abu Abdul Aziz al-Muntesiba, known as Barbarous, was a man trusted by Osama Bin Laden was confirmed by the sometime key member of "Al-Qaeda" from Sudan, Jamal Ahmed Al-Fadl. In his book, "Al-Qaeda's Jihad in Europe-the Afghanistan-Bosnian Network," the American expert on terrorism Ivan Coleman mentions him. Coleman states that in the fall of 1992 Al-Fadl received an order from Osama Bin Laden to travel to Zagreb and there to talk with "Al-Qaeda's" emissaries in B and H. The first among them was Barbarous, then the so-called humanitarian Enam Arnaut, and Osama's relative Abu Zubair Al-Madani......

[Mr Gump]

the USA is already occupying the country and pillaging it, what do you mean no victory? Is the body count getting stale or something?

[J. Falcon]

they should learn from Viet Nam

They should have learned from the USSR tried to fuck with Afghanistan.

[J. Falcon]

The other one involves attempting to genuinely helping the populace.

You are seriously deranged if you think that is true.

[moeloubani]

just leave people alone man the US puts so much money into being so sneaky and shit if they would just fuck off and leave people alone then people dont have a reason to hate the US

people dont just wake up one day and say 'fuck man i need to kill some americans' it just doesnt happen it only happens after years of seeing their friends and family killed, hearing about the injustice that america spreads around the world and then hearing that that same force that paid to have their family killed is now trying to put a government of their choice into their country through the use of military force

its just stupid if you guys think that people will sit idly by while the US goes around deciding the outcome of who will be the government where while the people are just made to shut up or be killed

[Iron Fist]

This thread is probably raising red flags at some CIA compound somewhere.. i'm leaving now

[Rochard]

the USA is already occupying the country and pillaging it, what do you mean no victory? Is the body count getting stale or something?

Yep. We took all of their oil.

Oh wait, they don't have any oil.

[Mr Gump]

Oh I see ignorance is your business. Just cause they are not big on oil doesn't mean there is nothing of interest there.

[mayabong]

I dont know what the plan is. I'm already convinced 9/11 was an inside job... loose change the movie pretty much sums that part up. Then I just watched "9/11 missing links" which shows the Jewish 9/11 connection and thats pretty scary. Its amazing how many jews are high level in our gov. The object is not to win.

P.S. Save the "truther" insults, I'm not a truther, I know the truth. Anyone who believes the BS government story has their head in the sand. I was in that bunch. Just ask who stood to gain from this "accident". Gulf of Tonkin that got us into vietnam, has been admitted by macnamira to be a lie. So Our gov has done this before.

[BIGTYMER]

Really? And I suppose Xenu is real and scientology can be taken seriously?

Yes, Xenu is real!

[just a punk]

the USA is already occupying the country and pillaging it, what do you mean no victory? Is the body count getting stale or something?

I thought I have described it very well already. If you still didn't get it, I give you a couple of examples on what I mean: Viet Nam, Somalia.

[just a punk]

I dont know what the plan is. I'm already convinced 9/11 was an inside job...

I'm 100% sure it was done by Saudi Arabic radical Muslims (not by Iraqis, Iranians, or Afghans), but I'm also sure that the US government was informed about their planes, and perhaps even helped them to make it done during a long time, starting from support of Taliban and CIA agent Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan during Soviet-Afghan war. However it's impossible to prove anything. We can only guess.

[The Demon]

I won't spend more words on your comment. If you still don't believe, do small reserach to see whose support they had there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJrNe...eature=related

....That Mahmud Abu Abdul Aziz al-Muntesiba, known as Barbarous, was a man trusted by Osama Bin Laden was confirmed by the sometime key member of "Al-Qaeda" from Sudan, Jamal Ahmed Al-Fadl. In his book, "Al-Qaeda's Jihad in Europe-the Afghanistan-Bosnian Network," the American expert on terrorism Ivan Coleman mentions him. Coleman states that in the fall of 1992 Al-Fadl received an order from Osama Bin Laden to travel to Zagreb and there to talk with "Al-Qaeda's" emissaries in B and H. The first among them was Barbarous, then the so-called humanitarian Enam Arnaut, and Osama's relative Abu Zubair Al-Madani......

I'm not sure what this is a response to. Btw, I've also seen videos explaining how 9/11 was an inside job. Should I believe that as well?

[The Demon]

You are seriously deranged if you think that is true.

I would say the same if you think the opposite is true. At least I KNOW there are two reasons, if not more. You seem to think there's one, which makes you a cooky conspiracy theorist.

[The Demon]

just leave people alone man the US puts so much money into being so sneaky and shit if they would just fuck off and leave people alone then people dont have a reason to hate the US

people dont just wake up one day and say 'fuck man i need to kill some americans' it just doesnt happen it only happens after years of seeing their friends and family killed, hearing about the injustice that america spreads around the world and then hearing that that same force that paid to have their family killed is now trying to put a government of their choice into their country through the use of military force

its just stupid if you guys think that people will sit idly by while the US goes around deciding the outcome of who will be the government where while the people are just made to shut up or be killed

Unfortunately, both we and the world made America the "world's police", and we can't just sit back and "leave everybody alone". If we did, Israel would be destroyed, the entire Middle East will take itself out, North Korea would take out half of Asia, etc. This whole "protectionism" bullshit didn't work during WWII and it sure as shit won't work now.

[The Demon]

I dont know what the plan is. I'm already convinced 9/11 was an inside job... loose change the movie pretty much sums that part up. Then I just watched "9/11 missing links" which shows the Jewish 9/11 connection and thats pretty scary. Its amazing how many jews are high level in our gov. The object is not to win.

P.S. Save the "truther" insults, I'm not a truther, I know the truth. Anyone who believes the BS government story has their head in the sand. I was in that bunch. Just ask who stood to gain from this "accident". Gulf of Tonkin that got us into vietnam, has been admitted by macnamira to be a lie. So Our gov has done this before.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....i?u=911_morons

This sums up loose change and the morons who follow him.

[The Demon]

Oh I see ignorance is your business. Just cause they are not big on oil doesn't mean there is nothing of interest there.

That's a great argument. Go ahead and tell us what other interest is there. What's that? You don't know? Gotcha