IBill is now officially stealing - GoFuckYourself.com

andi_germany · 12-21-2002, 02:52 AM

As I now know IBill set my accounts to 'No Pay' probably due to the celebrity issue. However they are still defrauding my customers by rebilling them.
I can easily detect fraud and theft here. any other issues that I am overlooking? Possible Rico if they do it to many accounts.

I have given them 3 business days to respond to my email or I will bring this to my lawyer. A policy change is fine by me but not paying what they owe is not tolerable. They have not presented me any notice about termination of the contract nor have they send notice about stopping payments.
I have emails and correspondence with IBill dating as far back as 1997 stating that they are fine with celebrity content sites. They have also not notified me about any infringement any of my sites would be involved in.

Anyone not having gotten payments should contact their rep and ask him specially about the 'Pay' status of their accounts.

IBill has developed to be the worst billing company in the business.

jennycards · 12-21-2002, 03:00 AM

Forget about suing them ... it will simply cost you too much and you probably know nothing about the U.S. law system which is 100% different from our european law.

What I would do:

1) If you haven't done that yet: call your iBill account rep. ... talk to him/her in person and discuss the matter. If your English is not good enough hire a friend to do that call for you.
If iBill doesn't chage its mind after that call proceed ...

2) forget about the rebills ... they are lost
3) if you are small: switch to a good AVS
4) if you are big: get your own merchant account ... it's not that difficult as a German corp.

quiet · 12-21-2002, 03:02 AM

if he's big and loses all his rebills, it's pretty much game over.

btw, is everything legal with your site?

jennycards · 12-21-2002, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
btw, is everything legal with your site?

I guess it's not less legal than iBills behavior

andi_germany · 12-21-2002, 03:20 AM

I will try to sort it out with the rep on Monday. Its not that much money but I will never tolerate anyone stealing from me no matter what it costs me. It took me 6 days to even get the info on the no pay. Since 12/15 I am getting you will be paid by the end of the business day kind of bullshit.

The sites are as legal as celeb sites can be (just vidcaps, no magzine scans) but they also don't pay my normal sites that have all legal content.

The problem that IBill has navigated themself into is that they still process my rebills. If they just canceled all accounts and stopped payment they probably can get away with it by some small print in their contracts (although mine is from 1997) but by still processing me after they set me to no pay they are clearly committing fraud.

flashfreak · 12-21-2002, 03:26 AM

I saw so many complaints about ibill these days... it must be insane for a paysite owner to use them anymore...

funkmaster · 12-21-2002, 03:28 AM

... I am kinda sick of all these ibill threads ... ibill went down the drain last year november, smart people saw the signs and moved to another processor ... damn it, you had more than 12 month time to get your shit together ... people that still complain today are pure idiots in my books ...

jennycards · 12-21-2002, 03:31 AM

By the way: I haven't been paid either & cannot acces my statement for 12/15 or 12/19 (?) ... but I guess this is another story.

I probably have to contact my acct. rep. on Monday ... god bless I have no problems buying xmas presents w/o that money as my last iBill check got lost in the mail so I am actually missing 2 month's payments

jennycards · 12-21-2002, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by funkmaster
... I am kinda sick of all these ibill threads ... ibill went down the drain last year november, smart people saw the signs and moved to another processor ... damn it, you had more than 12 month time to get your shit together ... people that still complain today are pure idiots in my books ...

I tried to switch to Glo-bill some 2 months ago ... I like them BUT my sign-ups dropped by 50%

So my objective no. 1 for 2003: establish my own merchant account & get rid of all the fucking payment processors.

quiet · 12-21-2002, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jennycards
I tried to switch to Glo-bill some 2 months ago ... I like them BUT my sign-ups dropped by 50%

So my objective no. 1 for 2003: establish my own merchant account & get rid of all the fucking payment processors.

when you have over 13K+ rebills tied up with them, it's not exactly easy to leave lol.

funkmaster · 12-21-2002, 03:39 AM

jennycards, I wish you all the best of luck with your own merchant.

jennycards · 12-21-2002, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by funkmaster
jennycards, I wish you all the best of luck with your own merchant.

Thanx

horns · 12-21-2002, 03:48 AM

why can't you rotate a ccbill and ibill page as your joinpage to start spreading it out. when your initial sales start to head south with ibill I seem to recall they had some % rule that they would cut you off, but did it ever happen to anyone? I bill would have just been giving money away , , ,

mistressofnite · 12-21-2002, 03:52 AM

Ibill put me on no-pay because I didn't pay the VISA fee. I thought we could at least still use the web900 feature if we didn't pay the fee.

chrism · 12-21-2002, 04:17 AM

If it ends up that iBill aren't going to pay you, at least do a mailer to all your site's members and tell them to chargeback any money iBill has taken since they stopped paying you. It won't help you get the money, but it will stop iBill having it!

SpeakEasy · 12-21-2002, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
if he's big and loses all his rebills, it's pretty much game over.

btw, is everything legal with your site?

HAHAHAHA...I think this is the guy that steals all his content and thinks it's ok. Now he wants his money for his stolen content usage??.....

FreeOnes · 12-21-2002, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpeakEasy

HAHAHAHA...I think this is the guy that steals all his content and thinks it's ok. Now he wants his money for his stolen content usage??.....

If he doesn't get his money then all the money will stay at iBill. That's stealing too...

exspamr · 12-21-2002, 06:25 AM

it sucks... i had the problem with adultfriendfinder... i was "promoting their site" and i got like 600 signups in a month with a good ass ratio (like 1:30) and they killed my account... i bet you they didnt refund the money though... alot of sponsers are like that if you spam... they know that you are spamming and they let it go to build up some revenue and then they term you and get off without paying

andi_germany · 12-21-2002, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpeakEasy

HAHAHAHA...I think this is the guy that steals all his content and thinks it's ok. Now he wants his money for his stolen content usage??.....

You are entirely wrong. The content I use is used with knowledge of the copyrightholders (movie companies) . They agree to the usage as long as you mention the movie titles etc.
Just assuming somebody is infringing because he hasn't bought the content is plain wrong. The complain or disagreement of a copyright holder is infringement and those days of magazine scans are long gone in my sites.

I wonder what happens if IBill told any site they bill for to send them all the model releases and licecing agreements within 24 hours. Could all of you do this within a days notice? I seriously doubt it. Most don't have it personally but leave it to the content provider to archive those papers.

AcidMax · 12-21-2002, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chrism
If it ends up that iBill aren't going to pay you, at least do a mailer to all your site's members and tell them to chargeback any money iBill has taken since they stopped paying you. It won't help you get the money, but it will stop iBill having it!

Unfortunately it would probably also kill any chance he has to ever process a Visa card again.

Andy

jimmyf · 12-21-2002, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flashfreak
I saw so many complaints about ibill these days... it must be insane for a paysite owner to use them anymore...

What you mean these days... it's been going on for Months and Months.

jimmyf · 12-21-2002, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by funkmaster
... I am kinda sick of all these ibill threads ... ibill went down the drain last year november, smart people saw the signs and moved to another processor ... damn it, you had more than 12 month time to get your shit together ... people that still complain today are pure idiots in my books ...

andi_germany · 12-21-2002, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by funkmaster
... I am kinda sick of all these ibill threads ... ibill went down the drain last year november, smart people saw the signs and moved to another processor ... damn it, you had more than 12 month time to get your shit together ... people that still complain today are pure idiots in my books ...

I have gone to another processor last year but I did process backup and rebills with ibill and it is a good chunk still.

What pisses me off is that celebrity sites are making them a shitload of money with full knowledge of what material is displayed and now they stop paying me. As I said if they terminate my contract ( hasn't happenend) stop my rebills (not happened) and after all payments are evened out stop doing business with celeb sites it is fine but doing it the way they do it is fraud plain and simple and it seems they just check if they get away with it. They won't get away with it in my case.

andi_germany · 12-21-2002, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AcidMax

Unfortunately it would probably also kill any chance he has to ever process a Visa card again.

Andy

I would file a fraud complain with VISA and Mastercard about IBill. I would state that they fraudulently charge credit cards for services they don't provide.

topal · 12-21-2002, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andi_germany
As I now know IBill set my accounts to 'No Pay' probably due to the celebrity issue. However they are still defrauding my customers by rebilling them.
I can easily detect fraud and theft here. any other issues that I am overlooking? Possible Rico if they do it to many accounts.

I have given them 3 business days to respond to my email or I will bring this to my lawyer. A policy change is fine by me but not paying what they owe is not tolerable. They have not presented me any notice about termination of the contract nor have they send notice about stopping payments.
I have emails and correspondence with IBill dating as far back as 1997 stating that they are fine with celebrity content sites. They have also not notified me about any infringement any of my sites would be involved in.

Anyone not having gotten payments should contact their rep and ask him specially about the 'Pay' status of their accounts.

IBill has developed to be the worst billing company in the business.

TELL US TRUTH.. DO YOU HAVE ANY PLAYBOY CONTENT? IF YOU HAVE.. FORGET ABOUT YOUR PAYMENTS BECAUSE YOUR SPONSORS TELLS IBILL NOT TO SEND YOUR MONEY.. YOU NEED TO CONTACT WITH YOUR SPONS...

yambo.biz · 12-21-2002, 09:02 AM

as it seems to us, iBill is too big now to be suitable for serious business. only for small websites and small volumes.

Andy, if you're from Germany, why not to work with German billing systems?

Get in touch with me by ICQ. I'll tell you

GotGauge · 12-21-2002, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jennycards
By the way: I haven't been paid either & cannot acces my statement for 12/15 or 12/19 (?) ... but I guess this is another story.

I probably have to contact my acct. rep. on Monday ... god bless I have no problems buying xmas presents w/o that money as my last iBill check got lost in the mail so I am actually missing 2 month's payments

I Haven't been Paid Either, It is all old accounts, guess most of them are Visa, since I didn't pay the Fee. But Looks like they all still have access, wonder if they rebilled them, didn't pay us...
I will find out Monday...

GotGauge · 12-21-2002, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mistressofnite
Ibill put me on no-pay because I didn't pay the VISA fee. I thought we could at least still use the web900 feature if we didn't pay the fee.

Yes they can still charge mastercard, check and 900#
But you still have to fill out the online form and select I do not wish to pay

heqdvd · 12-21-2002, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flashfreak
I saw so many complaints about ibill these days... it must be insane for a paysite owner to use them anymore...

I make my money basically from DVD and clip sales, but Dana at ibill waived te 750 for me, and calls me back in 24 hours everytime I call.

Paul Markham · 12-21-2002, 10:21 AM

It seems the way IBill are treating their clients, that one they are too big and feel they can fuck with people money.

Or two they are in very serious trouble. In which case it's time to leave or not get involved with them.

andi_germany · 12-21-2002, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by topal

TELL US TRUTH.. DO YOU HAVE ANY PLAYBOY CONTENT? IF YOU HAVE.. FORGET ABOUT YOUR PAYMENTS BECAUSE YOUR SPONSORS TELLS IBILL NOT TO SEND YOUR MONEY.. YOU NEED TO CONTACT WITH YOUR SPONS...

I am not talking about Revsharing, I am talking about paysites that run since 1996. There are no Sponsors here just IBill taking money of my clients giving them access and not paying me.

12-21-2002, 02:52 AM	#1
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	IBill is now officially stealing As I now know IBill set my accounts to 'No Pay' probably due to the celebrity issue. However they are still defrauding my customers by rebilling them. I can easily detect fraud and theft here. any other issues that I am overlooking? Possible Rico if they do it to many accounts. I have given them 3 business days to respond to my email or I will bring this to my lawyer. A policy change is fine by me but not paying what they owe is not tolerable. They have not presented me any notice about termination of the contract nor have they send notice about stopping payments. I have emails and correspondence with IBill dating as far back as 1997 stating that they are fine with celebrity content sites. They have also not notified me about any infringement any of my sites would be involved in. Anyone not having gotten payments should contact their rep and ask him specially about the 'Pay' status of their accounts. IBill has developed to be the worst billing company in the business.

12-21-2002, 03:00 AM	#2
jennycards Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: European Union Posts: 1,124	Forget about suing them ... it will simply cost you too much and you probably know nothing about the U.S. law system which is 100% different from our european law. What I would do: 1) If you haven't done that yet: call your iBill account rep. ... talk to him/her in person and discuss the matter. If your English is not good enough hire a friend to do that call for you. If iBill doesn't chage its mind after that call proceed ... 2) forget about the rebills ... they are lost 3) if you are small: switch to a good AVS 4) if you are big: get your own merchant account ... it's not that difficult as a German corp. __________________ Make Money with true niche programs like Adult ECards - Pantyhose Fetish - Men in Pantyhose

12-21-2002, 03:02 AM	#3
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	if he's big and loses all his rebills, it's pretty much game over. btw, is everything legal with your site? __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

12-21-2002, 03:26 AM	#6
flashfreak Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cloud number 9 Posts: 4,396	I saw so many complaints about ibill these days... it must be insane for a paysite owner to use them anymore... __________________ SEO Mogul \| ICQ: 163671223

12-21-2002, 03:31 AM	#8
jennycards Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: European Union Posts: 1,124	By the way: I haven't been paid either & cannot acces my statement for 12/15 or 12/19 (?) ... but I guess this is another story. I probably have to contact my acct. rep. on Monday ... god bless I have no problems buying xmas presents w/o that money as my last iBill check got lost in the mail so I am actually missing 2 month's payments __________________ Make Money with true niche programs like Adult ECards - Pantyhose Fetish - Men in Pantyhose

12-21-2002, 03:20 AM	#5
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	I will try to sort it out with the rep on Monday. Its not that much money but I will never tolerate anyone stealing from me no matter what it costs me. It took me 6 days to even get the info on the no pay. Since 12/15 I am getting you will be paid by the end of the business day kind of bullshit. The sites are as legal as celeb sites can be (just vidcaps, no magzine scans) but they also don't pay my normal sites that have all legal content. The problem that IBill has navigated themself into is that they still process my rebills. If they just canceled all accounts and stopped payment they probably can get away with it by some small print in their contracts (although mine is from 1997) but by still processing me after they set me to no pay they are clearly committing fraud.

12-21-2002, 03:28 AM	#7
funkmaster So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: shell beach Posts: 7,938	... I am kinda sick of all these ibill threads ... ibill went down the drain last year november, smart people saw the signs and moved to another processor ... damn it, you had more than 12 month time to get your shit together ... people that still complain today are pure idiots in my books ...

12-21-2002, 03:39 AM	#11
funkmaster So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: shell beach Posts: 7,938	jennycards, I wish you all the best of luck with your own merchant.

12-21-2002, 03:48 AM	#13
horns Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: where? Posts: 238	why can't you rotate a ccbill and ibill page as your joinpage to start spreading it out. when your initial sales start to head south with ibill I seem to recall they had some % rule that they would cut you off, but did it ever happen to anyone? I bill would have just been giving money away , , ,

12-21-2002, 03:52 AM	#14
mistressofnite Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 64	Ibill put me on no-pay because I didn't pay the VISA fee. I thought we could at least still use the web900 feature if we didn't pay the fee.

12-21-2002, 04:17 AM	#15
chrism Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 256	If it ends up that iBill aren't going to pay you, at least do a mailer to all your site's members and tell them to chargeback any money iBill has taken since they stopped paying you. It won't help you get the money, but it will stop iBill having it!

12-21-2002, 06:25 AM	#18
exspamr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,427	it sucks... i had the problem with adultfriendfinder... i was "promoting their site" and i got like 600 signups in a month with a good ass ratio (like 1:30) and they killed my account... i bet you they didnt refund the money though... alot of sponsers are like that if you spam... they know that you are spamming and they let it go to build up some revenue and then they term you and get off without paying

12-21-2002, 09:02 AM	#26
yambo.biz Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 48	as it seems to us, iBill is too big now to be suitable for serious business. only for small websites and small volumes. Andy, if you're from Germany, why not to work with German billing systems? Get in touch with me by ICQ. I'll tell you __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

12-21-2002, 10:21 AM	#30
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	It seems the way IBill are treating their clients, that one they are too big and feel they can fuck with people money. Or two they are in very serious trouble. In which case it's time to leave or not get involved with them. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70