RIP liberal health care bill!

[DudeRick]

Brown will defeat Coakley tomorrow in Massachusetts and kill this awful bill. I hope that the Democrats will now work with Republicans and create real health care reform!

[Barefootsies]

I hope that the Democrats will now work with Republicans and create real health care reform!

[nation-x]

Brown will defeat Coakley tomorrow in Massachusetts and kill this awful bill. I hope that the Democrats will now work with Republicans and create real health care reform!

Isn't it funny when idiots post shit they think they know something about? Brown will lose tomorrow but even if he won they would still pass the bill.

[kane]

If he wins the democrats will have one of three choices:

1. The house will vote on the same bill the senate has already passed. If they vote on the exact same bill and pass it then there is no need for another senate vote.

2. Work with the republicans to create a new health care bill that both parties can get behind.

3. Do nothing and there will be no real healh care reform.

Chances are it will be #3. If faced with the idea of passing the senate bill or no bill at all the house may vote for the senate bill, but probably not. The republicans really aren't interested in health care reform so they have no great desire to create any health care bill with or without the democrats so I think options 1 and 2 are going to be off the table.

[DudeRick]

Isn't it funny when idiots post shit they think they know something about? Brown will lose tomorrow but even if he won they would still pass the bill.

If the Democrats put through that bill after tomorrows Massachusetts referendum, the earthquake that will happen in November will make Haiti look like sneeze!

[LiveDose]

This will be an interesting thread to check tomorrow. A lot of confidence on both sides but no one knows what will happen.

[nation-x]

If the Democrats put through that bill after tomorrows Massachusetts referendum, the earthquake that will happen in November will make Haiti look like sneeze!

Uhh... I was under the impression that tomorrow was to elect a US Senator to represent the state of Massachusetts... last time I checked only people from Massachusetts can vote in that election... so how does that equal some referendum? You must live in Fox News land... Only one of those GOP propagandist idiots would come up with some twisted ass logic like that.

[Rangermoore]

If the Democrats put through that bill after tomorrows Massachusetts referendum, the earthquake that will happen in November will make Haiti look like sneeze!

Right On...

[The Truth Hurts]

Brown will lose tomorrow

not so sure about that....
we've been bombarded by coakley ads for weeks now...
and it seems her entire platform is "scott brown is a republican".
(red letters and all)
even the gaggle of obama loving old fucks that hang out every morning at the store i get my smokes at think she's gonna lose.

[nation-x]

For the record... I oppose the Senate Bill.

[kane]

Uhh... I was under the impression that tomorrow was to elect a US Senator to represent the state of Massachusetts... last time I checked only people from Massachusetts can vote in that election... so how does that equal some referendum? You must live in Fox News land... Only one of those GOP propagandist idiots would come up with some twisted ass logic like that.

Brown's primary platform is "If you want to kill the health care bill, vote for me." If he wins he will give the republicans 41 members that is enough to overcome the cloture the democrats have and it would allow them to effectively filibuster anything they wanted. So, in theory, if he wins it will give the republicans the opportunity to basically bring the senate to a halt any time they want and kill or derail any bill they want. Who knows how often they would actually do this, but if he wins it would be a big weapon for them.

[seeandsee]

i hope this motherfucker will suffer in such pain, so his eye goes out from temperature while he screams "Monika give me ice", and she brings only big dildo and put in Clinton mouth full of infected Indian sperm and deadly poison full of snake blood

[DateDoc]

Brown will win tomorrow. Great article in today's Wall Street Journal on Coakley - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

[kane]

not so sure about that....
we've been bombarded by coakley ads for weeks now...
and it seems her entire platform is "scott brown is a republican".
(red letters and all)
even the gaggle of obama loving old fucks that hang out every morning at the store i get my smokes at think she's gonna lose.

I've read some polls that have her up by as many as 6-8 points and other polls have him up by 6-8 points and still others have it dead even.

The only think leaning her way is that Mass is such a liberal state that reality alone should be good for some votes. As with any special election it is all about who can get their supporters to turn out. The website Five Thirty Eight gives Brown 50.2% of the vote and a 74% chance of winning so chances are Coakley's laziness at the beginning of the campaign and her not getting serious until Brown was suddenly a threat may cost her. But with any special election polls are one thing, voter turn out is a whole different thing.

[fatfoo]

I sure love Canada's free health care system. It's good to be a Canadian.

[DudeRick]

For the record... I oppose the Senate Bill.

I assume that means that you prefer the more liberal House bill that includes the government option?

[DateDoc]

But with any special election polls are one thing, voter turn out is a whole different thing.

And special election voter turnout is typically quite low which is in Brown's favor.

[tony286]

The health care bill is so far from liberal. lol A liberal bill would of been medicare for everyone done. This is so far from that. Its a healthcare and big pharm bail out. lol

[pocketkangaroo]

Yeah, the health care bill is far from liberal. It's much more pro-big business than anything. It's why so many of these industries are behind it.

[Brujah]

"America stands at a historic crossroads. At last, we are close to making real health insurance reform a reality. We face one critical, final choice, between action and inaction. We know where the path of inaction leads to: more uninsured Americans, more families struggling to keep up with skyrocketing premiums, higher federal budget deficits, and health costs so much higher than any other country's they will cripple us economically.

Our only responsible choice is the path of action. Does this bill read exactly how I would write it? No. Does it contain everything everyone wants? Of course not. But America can't afford to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And this is a good bill: it increases the security of those who already have insurance and gives every American access to affordable coverage; and contains comprehensive efforts to control costs and improve quality, with more information on best practices, and comparative costs and results. The bill will shift the power away from the insurance companies and into the hands of consumers.

Take it from someone who knows: these chances don't come around every day. Allowing this effort to fall short now would be a colossal blunder -- both politically for our party and, far more important, for the physical, fiscal, and economic health of our country."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_396159.html

[tony286]

Yeah, the health care bill is far from liberal. It's much more pro-big business than anything. It's why so many of these industries are behind it.

Thank you. People keep calling this guy liberal and Im like where? He is George Bush Lite lol

[GregE]

For the record... I oppose the Senate Bill.

The senate bill sucks. What's more, the house bill is only marginally better.

Bottom line: Lieberman killed any chance of real reform weeks ago. What we're left with are a pair of lame bills that propose to force Americans to buy overpriced insurance from private companies with a track record that's worse than horrible.

No wonder Obama's numbers are sinking like a stone.

The Democratic Party better get it's act together and fast cause the Palin/Beck 2012 option is fast approaching

[kane]

And special election voter turnout is typically quite low which is in Brown's favor.

Yep the standard republican plan is to pander to the base, shift a little towards the center then hope for rain on election day. They know their base will show up and vote. If the weather sucks the liberals often stay home and light up the bong.

[Sausage]

I hope it goes through, i will be on the phone to my broker 1st thing trying to get some US Insurance stocks! Sure thing

[DudeRick]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_396159.html

Your quote steers to a point of view that I disagree with! Democrats have brought this failure upon themselves in my opinion. There were numerous, necessary additions to any serious health care bill from the Repubs that liberals dismissed. This is responsible for its failure!

[pocketkangaroo]

Your quote steers to a point of view that I disagree with! Democrats have brought this failure upon themselves in my opinion. There were numerous, necessary additions to any serious health care bill from the Republications that liberals dismissed. This is responsible for its failure!

Like what?

[theking]

Like what?

I think maybe tort reform and across state lines purchase of health insurance...I could be wrong...but I don't think that either is in either the House or Senate bills.

[DudeRick]

Like what?

Gawd... You Democrats just dont listen... Here are the top 10...

-- Voluntary purchasing pools: Give individuals and small businesses the opportunities that large businesses and the government have to seek lower insurance costs.

-- Portability: As people change jobs or move across state lines, they change insurance plans. By allowing consumers to "own" their policies, insurers would have incentive to make more investments in prevention and in managing chronic conditions.

-- Lawsuit reform: It makes no sense to ignore one of the biggest cost drivers in the system -- the cost of defensive medicine, largely driven by lawsuits. Worse, many doctors have stopped performing high-risk procedures for fear of liability.

-- Require coverage of preexisting conditions: Insurance should not be least accessible when it is needed most. Companies should be incentivized to focus on delivering high-quality effective care, not to avoid covering the sick.

-- Transparency and payment reform: Consumers have more information when choosing a car or restaurant than when selecting a health-care provider. Provider quality and cost should be plainly available to consumers, and payment systems should be based on outcomes, not volume. Today's system results in wide variations in treatment instead of the consistent application of best practices. We must reward efficiency and quality.

-- Electronic medical records: The current system of paper records threatens patient privacy and leads to bad outcomes and higher costs.

-- Tax-free health savings accounts: HSAs have helped reduce costs for employers and consumers. Some businesses have seen their costs decrease by double-digit percentages. But current regulations discourage individuals and small businesses from utilizing HSAs.

-- Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health.

-- Cover young adults: A large portion of the uninsured are people who cannot afford coverage after they have "aged out" of their parents' policies. Permitting young people to stay on their parents' plans longer would reduce the number of uninsured and keep healthy people in insurance risk pools -- helping to lower premiums for everyone.

-- Refundable tax credits (for the uninsured and those who would benefit from greater flexibility of coverage): Redirecting some of the billions already spent on the uninsured will help make non-emergency care outside the emergency room affordable for millions and will provide choices of coverage through the private market rather than forcing people into a government-run system. We should trust American families to make choices for themselves while we ensure they have access to quality, affordable health care.

[Vendzilla]

Just going to watch the election and see what happens, if nothing else, I think that if a republican wins in Mass and that other dems are seeing their failing numbers, they might adopt a new path to keep their jobs!

[Brujah]

Gawd... You Democrats just dont listen... Here are the top 10...

-- Voluntary purchasing pools: Give individuals and small businesses the opportunities that large businesses and the government have to seek lower insurance costs.

-- Portability: As people change jobs or move across state lines, they change insurance plans. By allowing consumers to "own" their policies, insurers would have incentive to make more investments in prevention and in managing chronic conditions.

-- Lawsuit reform: It makes no sense to ignore one of the biggest cost drivers in the system -- the cost of defensive medicine, largely driven by lawsuits. Worse, many doctors have stopped performing high-risk procedures for fear of liability.

-- Require coverage of preexisting conditions: Insurance should not be least accessible when it is needed most. Companies should be incentivized to focus on delivering high-quality effective care, not to avoid covering the sick.

-- Transparency and payment reform: Consumers have more information when choosing a car or restaurant than when selecting a health-care provider. Provider quality and cost should be plainly available to consumers, and payment systems should be based on outcomes, not volume. Today's system results in wide variations in treatment instead of the consistent application of best practices. We must reward efficiency and quality.

-- Electronic medical records: The current system of paper records threatens patient privacy and leads to bad outcomes and higher costs.

-- Tax-free health savings accounts: HSAs have helped reduce costs for employers and consumers. Some businesses have seen their costs decrease by double-digit percentages. But current regulations discourage individuals and small businesses from utilizing HSAs.

-- Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health.

-- Cover young adults: A large portion of the uninsured are people who cannot afford coverage after they have "aged out" of their parents' policies. Permitting young people to stay on their parents' plans longer would reduce the number of uninsured and keep healthy people in insurance risk pools -- helping to lower premiums for everyone.

-- Refundable tax credits (for the uninsured and those who would benefit from greater flexibility of coverage): Redirecting some of the billions already spent on the uninsured will help make non-emergency care outside the emergency room affordable for millions and will provide choices of coverage through the private market rather than forcing people into a government-run system. We should trust American families to make choices for themselves while we ensure they have access to quality, affordable health care.

Some good stuff in there

[GatorB]

Brown will defeat Coakley tomorrow in Massachusetts and kill this awful bill. I hope that the Democrats will now work with Republicans and create real health care reform!

No it won't. There will be ZERO health care reform. Enjoy the continuation of the crappy health care system we have had for decades and will continue to have more many more years. DO NOT BITCH ABOUT HOW CRAPPY HEALTHCARE IS ANYMORE. What you wanted was health care bill defeated so you are about to get what you deserve.

Was this bill perfect? No. No such thing as a prefect bill could EVER be passed. The fact remains THE STAUS QUO IS NOT AN OPTION. But people like you are too stupid to see that's exactly what you are about to get.

If you actually think you're going to get some kind of whatever you feel is "real" healthcare reform then you are very naive or just plain retarded. And honestly I have yet to hear ONE response from hater about what THEIR idea of healthcare reform is. Sorry if you want to say something is a bad idea but you don't have better idea of your own then seriously you really need to STFU.

[GatorB]

Gawd... You Democrats just dont listen... Here are the top 10...

-- Voluntary purchasing pools: Give individuals and small businesses the opportunities that large businesses and the government have to seek lower insurance costs.

-- Portability: As people change jobs or move across state lines, they change insurance plans. By allowing consumers to "own" their policies, insurers would have incentive to make more investments in prevention and in managing chronic conditions.

-- Lawsuit reform: It makes no sense to ignore one of the biggest cost drivers in the system -- the cost of defensive medicine, largely driven by lawsuits. Worse, many doctors have stopped performing high-risk procedures for fear of liability.

-- Require coverage of preexisting conditions: Insurance should not be least accessible when it is needed most. Companies should be incentivized to focus on delivering high-quality effective care, not to avoid covering the sick.

-- Transparency and payment reform: Consumers have more information when choosing a car or restaurant than when selecting a health-care provider. Provider quality and cost should be plainly available to consumers, and payment systems should be based on outcomes, not volume. Today's system results in wide variations in treatment instead of the consistent application of best practices. We must reward efficiency and quality.

-- Electronic medical records: The current system of paper records threatens patient privacy and leads to bad outcomes and higher costs.

-- Tax-free health savings accounts: HSAs have helped reduce costs for employers and consumers. Some businesses have seen their costs decrease by double-digit percentages. But current regulations discourage individuals and small businesses from utilizing HSAs.

-- Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health.

-- Cover young adults: A large portion of the uninsured are people who cannot afford coverage after they have "aged out" of their parents' policies. Permitting young people to stay on their parents' plans longer would reduce the number of uninsured and keep healthy people in insurance risk pools -- helping to lower premiums for everyone.

-- Refundable tax credits (for the uninsured and those who would benefit from greater flexibility of coverage): Redirecting some of the billions already spent on the uninsured will help make non-emergency care outside the emergency room affordable for millions and will provide choices of coverage through the private market rather than forcing people into a government-run system. We should trust American families to make choices for themselves while we ensure they have access to quality, affordable health care.

actually most of these are in the health care bill you want dead.

and as fas a this

Lawsuit reform: It makes no sense to ignore one of the biggest cost drivers in the system -- the cost of defensive medicine, largely driven by lawsuits. Worse, many doctors have stopped performing high-risk procedures for fear of liability.

basically what you want is if a doctor and or hospital fucks up you want them to say "Oh bad sorry" and that's it. No punishment and no compensation for victims. Just so you can save a few bucks. Allegedgly save.

[GatorB]

I think maybe tort reform and across state lines purchase of health insurance...I could be wrong...but I don't think that either is in either the House or Senate bills.

I know for a FACT that across the state lines purcahses IS in at least one of these bills. But you can forget about that now. Enjoy being limited for your insurance choices for the next 10 years. Congrats.

[GatorB]

Brown's primary platform is "If you want to kill the health care bill, vote for me." If he wins he will give the republicans 41 members that is enough to overcome the cloture the democrats have and it would allow them to effectively filibuster anything they wanted. So, in theory, if he wins it will give the republicans the opportunity to basically bring the senate to a halt any time they want and kill or derail any bill they want. Who knows how often they would actually do this, but if he wins it would be a big weapon for them.

And nothing will get done and in 2012 they can say "See Obama didn't do anything". Then if another repub gets elected president and they take over Congress again then they will do for healthcare what they did between 2001-2007 which is NOTHING. Except pass some bills that favor the insurance companies and do nothing or patients. Oh wait, my bad, the GOP did pass the prescription drug bill which is costing us taxpayers a MINIMUM of a half a TRILLION over the first 10 years of the program.

[GatorB]

Right On...

Yes and people will fuck themselves over again. Sometimes people never learn.

Seriously why is 50% of America is retarded. Ok you claim to want healthcare reform but when it is presented you hate it? Huh? Do you want reform or not? Oh wait it costs too much. So you want reform that costs nothing. Ok that's work in FANTASYLAND. I live in the REAL WORLD. I'm GROWN UP enough to realize nothing is perfect. Waiting for perfection means waiting forever.

Not one single person that wants health care reform but is against this bill has plan of thier own. If you do post it. If not STFU until you come up with something better.

[theking]

I know for a FACT that across the state lines purcahses IS in at least one of these bills. But you can forget about that now. Enjoy being limited for your insurance choices for the next 10 years. Congrats.

I will not be affected one way or the other...with or without health care reform. It may possibly be in the House bill...but is not in the Senate bill...and I personally do not think it is in either bill. BTW...I have stated all along...and at this point continue to state...that I do not think the current Congress will present the President with a bill for his signature.

[Vendzilla]

Seriously why is 50% of America is retarded. Ok you claim to want healthcare reform but when it is presented you hate it?

It really hasn't been presented very well

I think if the president had sat down with Democrats and GOP reps and hammered out a deal that both could agree on and did the whole thing with no pork spending and open to C-Span, it would be a better bill, you know like the president promised when her ran for office, don't you agree?
He promised bipartisanship, yeah that happened
He promised no pork spending, strike two
He promised open debate on C-Span, strike three
People are pissed that no one is listening and now the same thing is going to happen to Obama that happened to Clinton in 94, he lost control of the house and senate and had to change his path as a president, which lead to him getting reelected.
People can debate whether the health bill is good or bad right now, but the fact that Mass. might elect a GOP to replace Ted Kennedy is telling the government they aren't happy with the way things are going

[PornMD]

Seriously why is 50% of America is retarded. Ok you claim to want healthcare reform but when it is presented you hate it? Huh?

I want bigger things to be fixed first. Health care is one of the least of this country's worries. I'm worried about being able to afford staying in my home. I'm worried about my sister being able to get a job after her company finding an excuse to fire her after 12 years of being one of their most acclaimed employees. I'm worried about seeing another airport security issue come up seemingly every new week. I'm worried about our president practically begging China to keep investing in the US and basically confirming that we are their bitch.

Health care reform is something that should happen. I just don't get why Obama felt the need to blow nearly his entire first year to try and make it happen while so many other things are much bigger problems right now. Or look at it this way - the health care system is the same one that was in place while Bush was president...was there ANYONE considering it the biggest problem we were facing while he was in office? Anyone at all? I'm not republican or democrat. To be honest I'm becoming anti-politician entirely with each passing year. So many people making so much money getting such little done while letting bad situations get worse.

[dav3]

I sure love Canada's free health care system. It's good to be a Canadian.

Must be nice.

[tiger]

The health care bill is so far from liberal. lol A liberal bill would of been medicare for everyone done. This is so far from that. Its a healthcare and big pharm bail out. lol

Insurance companies love where this is going just look at insurance stocks performance as this gets closer to passing.

[onwebcam]

Insurance companies love where this is going just look at insurance stocks performance as this gets closer to passing.

They should love the bills since they wrote them.

[Sausage]

Insurance companies love where this is going just look at insurance stocks performance as this gets closer to passing.

Oh for sure.

Seriously as soon as the Republican loses this (if he does) I am dropping a huge chunk of cash on insurance stocks. Its a sure bet! I think the whole package is a complete joke and doesnt fix your system in the slightest, but why not make some money off it... everyone else will.

[$5 submissions]

This may be a bit controversial but one possible MARKET-FOCUSED solution to driving down the costs of healthcare is to allow HMOs and insurance companies to partner with WORLD-CERTIFIED offshore hospital systems to deliver certain types of health services. The patients get to travel while getting medical care. Would force local US hospitals to compete and this might drive down prices.

There has to be LEGAL PROTECTIONS written in the law for this to fly though.

[jerryb]

2 things I'd hate to be in life....

1. A far leftwing nut.

2. A far rightwing nut.

So happy being common sense middle of the road and able to think. Not be swayed by the far right or far left websites/newscasts.

[Matt 26z]

2. Work with the republicans to create a new health care bill that both parties can get behind.

The Republicans secretly do not support ANY kind of healthcare reform for the simple reason that Democrats are associated so closely with the topic.

Even if there could be a bill that the Republicans agreed with in full, they don't want it. They would rather run negative ad campaigns in 2010 and 2012 saying how the Democrtas failed to pass healthcare reform.

[kane]

The Republicans secretly do not support ANY kind of healthcare reform for the simple reason that Democrats are associated so closely with the topic.

Even if there could be a bill that the Republicans agreed with in full, they don't want it. They would rather run negative ad campaigns in 2010 and 2012 saying how the Democrtas failed to pass healthcare reform.

I agree 100%. If the house and senate were currently controlled by the republicans there wouldn't even be a health care bill. They want no part of it and have no interest in it, but right now they are the minority so they are being forced into talking about it.

[nation-x]

Gawd... You Democrats just dont listen... Here are the top 10...

-- Voluntary purchasing pools: Give individuals and small businesses the opportunities that large businesses and the government have to seek lower insurance costs.

-- Portability: As people change jobs or move across state lines, they change insurance plans. By allowing consumers to "own" their policies, insurers would have incentive to make more investments in prevention and in managing chronic conditions.

-- Lawsuit reform: It makes no sense to ignore one of the biggest cost drivers in the system -- the cost of defensive medicine, largely driven by lawsuits. Worse, many doctors have stopped performing high-risk procedures for fear of liability.

-- Require coverage of preexisting conditions: Insurance should not be least accessible when it is needed most. Companies should be incentivized to focus on delivering high-quality effective care, not to avoid covering the sick.

-- Transparency and payment reform: Consumers have more information when choosing a car or restaurant than when selecting a health-care provider. Provider quality and cost should be plainly available to consumers, and payment systems should be based on outcomes, not volume. Today's system results in wide variations in treatment instead of the consistent application of best practices. We must reward efficiency and quality.

-- Electronic medical records: The current system of paper records threatens patient privacy and leads to bad outcomes and higher costs.

-- Tax-free health savings accounts: HSAs have helped reduce costs for employers and consumers. Some businesses have seen their costs decrease by double-digit percentages. But current regulations discourage individuals and small businesses from utilizing HSAs.

-- Reward healthy lifestyle choices: Providing premium rebates and other incentives to people who make healthy choices or participate in management of their chronic diseases has been shown to reduce costs and improve health.

-- Cover young adults: A large portion of the uninsured are people who cannot afford coverage after they have "aged out" of their parents' policies. Permitting young people to stay on their parents' plans longer would reduce the number of uninsured and keep healthy people in insurance risk pools -- helping to lower premiums for everyone.

-- Refundable tax credits (for the uninsured and those who would benefit from greater flexibility of coverage): Redirecting some of the billions already spent on the uninsured will help make non-emergency care outside the emergency room affordable for millions and will provide choices of coverage through the private market rather than forcing people into a government-run system. We should trust American families to make choices for themselves while we ensure they have access to quality, affordable health care.

Some of those are Democrat proposals that ARE included... such as covering young adults (they can be covered up to age 26 by their parents policy)... as far as tort reform and portability go... the reason the Dems haven't supported that is because of monopolies and state power. If the federal govt passes tort reform it takes the power away from the states to decide what their tort laws are... if the federal government passes a law enforcing portability that allows insurers to create even larger monopolies and removes regulatory power away from the states and under the federal government.

I have heard Republicans saying these things and it's funny because it's a total turnaround from their positions on federal power.

[The Demon]

Seriously why is 50% of America is retarded. Ok you claim to want healthcare reform but when it is presented you hate it?

This is really an ignorant post GatorB. Most of us want healthcare reform. NONE of us want what Obama has offered. Wanting something doesn't mean we have to accept the first thing brought together. I'm hoping that this bill fails and that the Republicans and Democrats work together on a more realistic bill. Watching the past year closely, I don't think the Republicans don't want healthcare reform, they just don't want Obamacare.

And no, stop with the double standard about Obama. Nobody is hoping he fails at the expense of our economy. Most people think that he's a dumbass who's full of shit. If he fails it's because he sucks. If he succeeds it's because he's good. No 3rd choice, no Bush, nothing.

[nation-x]

This is really an ignorant post GatorB. Most of us want healthcare reform. NONE of us want what Obama has offered. Wanting something doesn't mean we have to accept the first thing brought together. I'm hoping that this bill fails and that the Republicans and Democrats work together on a more realistic bill. Watching the past year closely, I don't think the Republicans don't want healthcare reform, they just don't want Obamacare.

And no, stop with the double standard about Obama. Nobody is hoping he fails at the expense of our economy. Most people think that he's a dumbass who's full of shit. If he fails it's because he sucks. If he succeeds it's because he's good. No 3rd choice, no Bush, nothing.

Umm... Obama hasn't offered anything... only said what he would like to see... Congress offered bills. Maybe one of these days you will figure out how the government works.

[cwd]

no health care, yeah!