Fiddy charges for printed/mailed checks! :/

We still no not charge for checks, charge $2 for Epassporte, charge for wires (amount varies between domestic & international)....

The reason we do not change a couple of bucks for check payments is we want to offer affiliates one method of payment with no fee attached. If they want their money faster then we have options however there is a small fee attached.

:1orglaugh

eh this is BS.. big mainstream companies dont charge to send checks..

Take example hydra/neverblue.. they have over 100k affiliates, yet they dont charge for checks.. its called business cost..

we dont have to pay for your accounting department.. if somehow sending checks is costing you too much money, then redo your numbers, reduce payout per signup, etc... anyway if companies with 100k+ affiliates can send all of them checks WITHOUT charging, so can all you adult companies with less than 10% of the affiliates they have

The bigger question is an this is a long time standing question

Who is the customer

the affiliate selling his traffic to the program

or the program buying the traffic from the affiliate

Maybe you should also consider the location of the company. For example if we send out a check to the USA our bank charges us 20+ EUR for it - just because next to no one uses checks here anymore - a wire transfer costs "only" 10-12 EUR to the USA.

Anyway we're not charging a payout fee at the Yoogirls affiliate program - it's simply an investment into the business....

But i can totally understand programs (exspecially small ones) charging at least the actual cost of the check/payment - if not calculating exactly what each payout costs them (employee, bank, etc.)

Once we get rolling, we will only be charging for wire transfers. ePassporte transfers are on us --- meaning FREE for Webmasters. :thumbsup

I don't think you are getting the point Will is trying to make. He is not arguing YOUR expense of sending out checks, he is just arguing the point it is YOUR cost and not a business expense that should be passed on.

I love threads like this.

amen to that. thanks.

thats a good question, who is the customer. Not sure if that matters from a stand point of charging people to receive a payment or not...

I had to think about this one for a couple minutes. I would think in all cases the customer is the person who is doing the paying. If you are paying for a service then you are the customer. The person paying the hosting company for bandwidth is the customer. In your example I would say the program is the customer, they are paying for a service.

However, I see the affiliate's relationship as more of a B2B transaction. Not employee/owner or company/customer.

Which ever way you look at it, no party should be charging the other party a transaction fee to send them the money they are owed UNLESS they provide multiple options for payment that are a convenience so they can receive payment fast, such as a wire. There should always be at least 1 "free" way for them to get paid. Services were provided, payment in full should be made. Checks, in the US at least are very inexpensive to send to other people in the US. If you are sending international and it is very expensive for you to send checks then I completely understand not offering that option or putting a fee on it. However you should be able to offer another option that is cheaper for you such as epassporte that you do not charge the other party a fee to receive the money they are owed.

I have heard this question brought up hundreds of times with various companies

I agree its part of your business model set up your options and give a free option to get your money! even if it means waiting for a higher payout to be achieved


We don't charge to get a check at MIP but we do for epassport as it cost us a significant amount to use this option from wiring into epass to sending funds

Must only be in this industry... if you work for a big company in the REAL world they don't charge you for your cheque at the end of the week... or none that I worked for did... and guess what, they have the accounting, the banks fees etc so your reasoning is flawed and nothing more then a rip off!!!

Does anyone have an accountant that gets these fees back?

Checks all around are fucking retarded. I get a check from their client.. I drive to their bank.. I wait in line.. I deal with their foreign speaking employees.. Oh wait I don't have an account at your shitty bank.. 5 dollar fee?? go fuck yourself

So then you won't mind chipping in a few bucks for the programs hosting? Or how about going in on 1/2 of the bandwidth that YOUR customer uses once he joins the site? That is fair. I mean, if it's a partnership, that's how it should really work.

Or does the partnership only go one way? (rhetorical question)

What percent does Never Blue pay their affiliates? I've never heard of them but I'm going to guess it's not 50% or higher. Some programs in adult pay a high PPS or some up to 80% revshare AND you want them to eat the cost of getting a check or epass to you? Come on.

If affiliates wanted to take a lower percentage, I'm sure there would be no issues getting paid for free. But you guys want more, more, more and more, yet complain over $2 when it comes time to pay you. Madness.

Adult and mainstream affiliate programs do not pay the same percentages.

Yes it does go one way after the sale because the affiliate has no control over product quality or price determination. Why should the affiliate be a partner and shoulder partial costs with no absolute decision input?

And do those big companies in the "real world" give you 50% or more of the sale you make for them? Fuck no they don't.

No they don't but compensation is agreed upon at the start so there is no discrepancy when it comes time to get paid for the work you do. Let's be honest. Why do companies pay out 50%? Because without that option, they would not make as much money as affiliates would go elsewhere. Its a fucking business that is hardly run anything resembling a legit business. If your biz is so hard up you have to nickle and dime those that make you money for them to get paid, your biz is worse than you thought.

Do these same companies charge talent a service fee for getting paid? NO. Why? Talent would tell them to go fuck themselves. But don't forget, "real world" companies also pay into social security and medicaid taxes as well as pay my federal taxes for me.

Without affiliates, programs would simply drop as many of those owners could not survive, much less drum up the traffic needed for their sales. Affiliates are gold. Treat them as such.

If the entire industry said tomorrow that rates are dropped to 30% and no more PPS, most affiliates would keep sending traffic. Mainstream does it and adult was foolish for ever offering so much. Who ever in this business thought of paying that much needs to have their nuts cut off. That was where it all went wrong.

Affiliates know when they sign up to a program what the fees are. If they don't like them, they can pass and send their traffic somewhere else, the same as you can pass on the credit card offer your bank gives you if you do not like the current rate they give you. It's ALL up to you, the affiliate. However, if you choose to promote company X, then don't complain about the rates they charge you.

I agree, if you RELY on these little fees to make a living, you're fucked. Though I understand why it's done and it makes sense so long as it is a fair fee.

"Only in adult" applies to every aspect of our fucked up business. Adult does everything wrong and backwards. It is what it is and it always will be that way.

Every affiliate here has a choice. Fuck or walk. Play by the rules or go flip burgers. But if they choose to play the game, they need to play by the rules set by the very programs they send their traffic to. If they don't like it, try mainstream or hit Burger King.

I could care less about a $2 fee when getting paid by a program. That's the cost of doing business with them, regardless if it's the "right" or "smart" thing to do.

Go where? Mainstream or McDonalds?


Agreed, but it's always been that way and it always will.

mainstream pays a shit load more... $30-45 PPS for free trial..

the advertiser pays around $45, neverblue will pay $40 for it.. basically they dock 10%, and pay 90%. LOL

Platinum Bucks/Free Pass Bucks/Adult Rental Cash does not charge when we send checks.

list of sponsors that do not charge for checks:

- satan cash.
- curious cash.

feel free to add more.

Nothing wrong with that at all imo.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with making the min payout on checks (resonable) $100 - $200 min to send. If someone wanted to be paid out for $20 then yeah make them pay $2 or whatever. But I don't think you should make them hit a $500 payout to receive the check without fee.

I actually came across 1 company, don't remember who, that was set up exactly the way described above. If you wanted to wait till you hit a $200 payout it was free to send, if you wanted to be paid each week, if it was less than $200 (ie $20) then there was a fee. You could pay the fee or wait a little longer till you reached the min payout and get it with out fees.

why even bother arguing with a nick of a man pretending to be a woman pretending to work in adult.

fuck your mom lately? How is she doing?

No not at all, I will help pay part of your hosting bill. Let me know what address I should send my advertising bill to so you can help me with that too. :disgust


If you don't already know, your expenses (should) be calculated into your business plan. Your hosting is your business expense. Your content is your business expense. My hosting is my business expense, my advertising is my business expense.

Based off of what you pay me for my traffic, my revenue, I calculate that against my cost and that is my profit margin.

When you do a business plan, something that a lot of you probably have never done, you figure out what all of your expenses will cost you to opperate, then you figure how much profit you are satisfied with, and the difference left over is what you are going to allocate to traffic/sales via an affilaite program. If you don't want to pay affiliate then don't have an affiliate program, do all of your traffic in house then you can charge yourself check fees and all that other shit.

There are no "fair" fees when someone is forced to be charged a fee to collect a payment from you. Do you think your hosting company would be happy if you deducted $5 from their payment each month because it cost you to send them a payment? Affiliates provide you a service, traffic and sales. A hosting company provides you with a service, bandwidth.

The entire adult industry would never get together and drop PPS or revshare %. Never. Because some companies have more expenses than others. Some are satified making an "XXXX" profit margin while others are fine with "XXX". Payouts are one of the most important factors of why an affiliate might chose one company over another. If a company can afford it they will always try to pay a little more than the next guy because they want volume and will make more by paying more and making a smaller margin but overall more profit.

The $2 fee isn't going to break my piggy bank either. I started this thread pointing out that I think it is retarded for a company to do so and gives at least some people a really bad perception of that company. I was wondering if anyone would have an legit reasons to why they do this, so far there is none. Forcing people to pay a fee in order to be paid for services rendered, is simply fucking stupid. Whether it is a $2 fee, $10 fee, or $100 fee.

Quoted for fucking truth. Half of these guys have no fucking clue what you are talking about. I will bet everything I will ever own that 75% of these guys do not have any business plan whatsoever in writing much less can actually define what a business plan is. Shit most of them have no idea what an executive summary is. Most of them have no fucking clue how to do a proper risk analysis or even a simple request for proposal. To those 75%, business is slapping shit up on page with a link to a join button.

Other areas that programs fail to consider for their affiliates is what about the programs that do not do shit about piracy? What sense does it make for me as an affiliate to pimp your shit if I can find it all over torrents and newsgroups? Hard to sell snow to Eskimo at a premium rate when all they have to do is walk outside and get it for free. Some programs even look at it as "free branding" which many affiliates will end up losing the sale on later type-ins. Many times piracy has been discussed here and moving to streaming only was proposed only to be met with "too expensive" bullshit.

Fuck it. From this point forward, if you don't protect your shit or the access to it, you deserve to get ripped and pirated. And until the entire industry moves to streaming and protecting their content, there will be more than enough free porn on the tubes, torrents, newsgroups, etc... that no one will ever have to buy it again.

at a company I worked for we did our own billing/processing so stuffing 200+ affiliate checks into envelopes sucks.

But would it have sucked worse if you did not have to pay out any affiliates because you had no sales?

And whose choice is it if they want to give me that much of the sale? Not me... it's the companies choice! So say for arguments sake a a sale is for an hours worth of work... your saying if a company is paying an employee 40 or 50 bucks an hour they should be deducting a cheque at the end of the week?

Cheque fee's are one of the cost of running a biz... if you can't afford that then get it's time to get the fuck out because you shouldn't be running a biz!!!!!

sure would of. but at the time there was no other option, so we stuffed them. didn't charge extra, prolly should of.

So would you also charge the talent a service fee to pay them? How about crew? Employees? I think this is what the gripe is about is that none of these other groups get charged to get paid, only the affiliates.

I would hope the feedback from this thread would be helpfull to companies charging for checks and not providing "free" options for their affiliates to be paid. Instead of being defensive they can use this as feedback and then determine if this is really the route they want to take. I think everyone knows it is total bullshit. It makes affiliates start to feel like "customers" the way a customer gets hit with hidden cross sales and other bs fees, now we are getting hit with them too. If companies want to nickel and dime us fine, its your choice. It just makes you look really bad and if that bad perception is worth putting a couple extra bucks in your pocket then more power to you. For those of you who really don't care about collecting the extra money and may be on the fence I hope this post gives you good feedback.

To the people saying affiliates just want more more and more? Like what? what are affiliates crying to you for more of? I keep hearing this but no one can tell me what it is ? The only thing I've heard affiliates crying for is to be paid by some companies who are late on payments or going out of business.

this isn't second life.

Dumb bitches like you need to get a first life.

So do I. :thumbsup

I wonder who this melissa chick used to be.
her song sounds familiar.

are you tarded? trying to pick a fight? when i pay my crew i cut checks all the time. I hate writing and my penmanship is terrible, but I do it and i don't take $5 out of the check.

what fucking business do you do besides troll? can you post a link that goes somewhere?

how about posting your tits to prove you are actually a woman.

I merely commented on your statement that you "probably should have charged them".

I work in mainstream and the last thing I would ever do is provide any sort of link that could associate me to the adult industry.

How about you post a pic of your dick to prove you are actually a man?

i did in a thread last week.

i've been here longer, you have more to prove than i do.

if you are in mainstream whey are you here?

why do you bother to link your defunct tube link to an ******** article if you aren't in this biz? why do you even care?

you are a troll.

i don't use any sponsors that charge for checks (that i know of). there are a lot that charge to get paid via epassporte though. charging for checks is stupid. like DWB said, banks should stop charging for wires if they want to get rid of checks. i don't see why they charge for wires in the first place.

I don't have to prove shit to you fuckhead. I am mainstream deal with it. I had a story come across my desk last year that was about one "Dirty D" Michael Storm who is accused of using an underage minor in one of his productions among other complaints. We have spoken to the Lt. that Kelsie gave her story to as well as other people directly involved in the story. Kelsie provided the same information to the investigating officer as she did in her email to Gene Ross. While her involvement was wrong, Storm is believed to have been well aware of the situation.

The tube site was a simple operation set up to get inside his promo area to gather any needed information to help later on if information was needed for other girls on his site. It is truly fucking amazing how simple programs make it to gain access to content for collection purposes without even having to prove you belong to the industry.

Everything was calculated and deliberate. Assholes like Dirty D fuck up routinely and it was only a matter of time before he did so again which provided us with the chance to make "the industry leading adult forum" aware of his antics as mentioned on the shit he allegedly pulled in the article Gene Ross wrote on ******** in December 2008. It was a simple process. Wait for him to create enough drama and eyeballs and then bring it back to the attention of the very people he endangered through promotion of ILLEGAL content. Simply coming on GFY and posting a thread about his antics would have garnered him more support but when considered with additional information like fucking over an affiliate, people were more open to the actual facts in the case rather than simple dismissal of an outsider trying to bring down an industry.

In doing so, more information came out from StarErotica and Whore Monger who are more than aware of the way Storm does business. As well as the story was covered in great detail on the MJ Morning Radio Show in Tampa. Whether or not Storm ever faces justice for alleged production of a 17 year old minor remains to be seen. Enough information is out there now that a mere search will turn up information on his shady business practices.

I bet the next time Storm thinks it's a cool idea to post bullshit calling Rich MacDonald a child molester and then going to great lengths to even host his slanderous accusations on his company's page (The Stall), he will think twice about all the shit he has done that has not come out yet and there is more. I bet the next time he thinks about posting personal information including social security numbers and identification numbers of a model (kelsie) on a site and then list all of the other producers in Florida that she worked with, he will think long and hard about who has what information on him.

Again, I hve no issue with adult as an industry. Frankly, I love much of the product. But I loathe scumbags and perverts that allegedly produce content with underage performers.

I've never seen mainstream pay that much. Not saying it's not true, I'm saying what you are saying is news to me.

Without the Affiliates These programs would be nothing. They can not survive without affiliates to promote them.. They only charge for checks because they can. If affiliates would stop using the ones that charge for checks they would stop charging for checks.....Supply and demand... :2 cents:

It goes both ways. If you don't want to be an affiliate and pay for your checks, don't be. Or simply choose programs that absorb that fee. That choice is yours.

Personally it doesn't bother me. As an affiliate I've counted that into the cost of my business, along with hosting.

My utilities company forces me to pay them a fee if I pay with a credit card and use their phone pay system. My choice would be to go solar, but I choose to pay the small $3 fee.

Of course they wouldn't. Never, ever. That was not my point.


I don't think it's something to worry about or even question. It is what it is. In theory, yea, it is dumb, but what can ya do? The only solution is to push a company who doesn't charge.

But it is your choice to promote a company who charges you.


Again, it goes both ways. Perhaps the affiliate should find a new line of work? You can say that no matter what side the fence you're on.

A better solution to make both parties happy may be to split the cost? I think that would be fair.

You still don't get it and your analogies are terrible, fact is you can't find an accurate analogy to match what some of these companies are doing with these bullshit fees.

Does your utility company charge you if you pay with a check? 100% chance that is a "no". The whole point of this entire thread is that some of these companies are charging a fee for ALL payment options, forcing the affiliate to have to pay a fee to collect money for services rendered. If they want to charge a fee for this option or that option (wire or epass,whatever) I don't care as long as there is at least one option we can get paid without having to pay to get paid.

YOUR hosting bill and SOMEONE ELSE's fees to send you a payment, you put both of those two things together in the same realm of YOUR "expenses" ???

So you actually factor into YOUR opperational cost to do business as an AFFILIATE a couple extra bucks to cover the fees of the person sending YOU the money. Are serious you have to be joking, shouldn't the company sending the money factor that into their costs???? :upsidedow:warning:upsidedow:warning:helpme:upside dow

Answer me this... why are affiliates the ONLY ones that these companies pass the fee onto ? You can't argue that an affiliate provides a service, traffic and customers (sales). A hosting company provides a service.. bandwidth, their designers provide a service, programmers, electric company, processing company etc etc etc... but do they deduct $5 or whatever from their bill when they go to pay these companies????? NOPE. So explain to me why affiliates are the only ones getting shit on with these bullshit fees ?

no need to answer, it has already been said.... because they can. They know all of those other companies would tell them to go fuck themselves if they pulled that with them, where as we are all just one step above surfers and will fall for all the bullshit fees. sad but true... obviously.

I wonder why these operations don't seem to be more automated... with good accounting software these days, you can print off all your cheques with a few mouse clicks and then spend a couple hours stuffing envelopes... a small price to pay for all that revenue you made from affiliates.

Of course, most sponsors aren't set up this way, and probably do everything by hand, so therefore the cheque charge.