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OK, bump for a good thread for a change :thumbsup
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IMHO, the only ones that will be able to cope the storm will be those shooting exclusive content, working close to programs (many of them will disappear as well so I would be very careful with this) and researching A LOT on niches, a thing most content shooters should have done years ago. With the current state of business, one failure could mean a lot. And believe me, being someone who has run microniche sites and programs, I can say that, at least for those programs within the same niches I run, 99% of content is off niche. Hell, let's make it 100%. Even funnier is that most programs are failing even on common mainstream niches. I'll give an example since every time I say this a few trolls say I'm keeping my mouth shut because I have no idea so I play the "mystery card". Let's take a very common niche, anal: someone that knows the niche or at least uses the brain will know that a girl getting 10 inches in her ass won't be laughing and smiling. Furthermore, most women will say no to the only idea of that 10 inches cock craving their asses. The whole anal niche has 2 main variants (and many sub-niches): the power fantasy (usually with a rape ingredient) and the homosexual fantasy. I won't extend on both variants since they're quite explanatory, just let me say this: A girl happy as fuck with a 10 inches cock in her ass won't cover any of both main variants in the niche. Wowzers. In opposition to that, there are several ways to shoot the same content and make it more appealing. And I won't enter into details on this either, those interested do your homework. Anyway, besides all of the above, those sites that keep in business will need to wise up, or die. Programs are using a 2000/2001 logic (only with some technological improvements), while the whole internet (mainstream and adult) is living in 2010. Again, just my humble opinion. |
oh and btw, I think this is the time to try the female market. Of course I wouldn't recommend this to anyone before getting your shit straight, but right now it's an untapped market with a potential to make a killing ($$$ speaking). Of course, you'll need to think out of the box and as I said in the previous post, wise up. But the first program that makes a good adult site for females will cash in like mad. The sad part is that besides knowing what to do, I foresee some big investment in this kind of site
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:winkwink: |
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anyway, I'm not talking about the regular HETERO MALE paysite, it's something more sophisticated and with many income sources :2 cents: but hey, maybe the regular paysite as we know it could work with the proper content, really don't know |
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Don't worry. I will not be holding my breath on this one. It will be a long wait. :2 cents: |
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That's why we can't sell them porn. They're too damn smart! |
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However, it remains. Hence there is no equal. |
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:1orglaugh:1orglaugh I like your thinking. But using the same logic, think about this as well: women are so damn smart they might sell sex to other women. As a matter of fact, they do it every fucking day, only that depending the angle nobody is cashing on it (at least not properly) or the ones cashing it big shouldn't take all the cake. Or at least share the wealth :winkwink: anyway, this is going way off topic and this might deserve a thread on its own, so back to the content amount question that originated the thread :thumbsup |
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Recapping, I dont make money from my parties as I only charge a small entry to cover the cost of the girls. I make the money from the film. On the other hand, if you can find some free sex parties, let me know :winkwink: |
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let's be realistic: it doesn't matter how good, sophisticated and amazing you are. Whoever didn't realize business has changed and that change isn't even finished has had a lobotomy or something. That change process as a whole can be "routed" to a desired end only if the majority of players join efforts. Since we know that won't ever happen, then the only remedy is to wait and see which one will be the new trend (this is what 99.99% of people is doing) to copy it or innovate. The post by EB hits the nail on the head, as usual.
Now, innovation doesn't mean tech innovation necessarily. See, most programs feature HD videos and use that as a marketing selling claim. That would be perfect 2 years ago, and it's useless nowadays. Even more when you see programs are losing a lot of its income thanks to tubes with crappy image. The fact is you can offer plasma video quality and it won't matter at all. People will pay for some special cellphone video rather than HD boring content. In short: WISE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Play the LIVE BROADCASTING CARD. Shoot your content LIVE, after all it's the same than doing it hidden in a studio. Use interactivity. Involve your customers. Use technology wisely, not in a dumb way. Make the most out of marketing tools. And your marketing tools shouldn't be for your affiliates! Marketing tools are for your customers and prospective customers! Of course, if you think a marketing tool starts and ends with a banner or FHG, there's no point in discussing anything, you're failing from the very start. And as we're at it, the business is in a big change for affiliates. It's sad, but the affiliates model as we know it isn't dead yet, but in agony for sure. There are ways to increase signups RIGHT NOW. And I mean RIGHT NOW. No shady stuff, no xsells, nothing idiotic, just common sense. But you'll need to think out of the box and forget about what you know as "adult business". The good news is adult business is facing the challenge of turning really PRO. Thus, you'll need pros to manage your business. No more confusion between media and message is allowed. And I won't get philosophic and discuss McLuhan's media/message theories since at this point they're wrong, but knowing a little about how modern PROFESSIONAL business should be taken care of wouldn't hurt anyone. anyway, just rambling and my :2 cents: and yadda yadda yadda |
a lot of good replies in this thread.
let me add a few facts to the debate: a few days ago i offered a shoot to a young model who is represented by the same agency which Dan mentions. she was ready to shoot but the owner of the agency said they would pass..the offer was not enough money. this guy has enough money but the model could have used the income. the bad thing is that this guy controls the majority of hardcore models in LA... on another note, an amateur program i have shot exclusive for over many years informed me that there is a new era where lots of real amateurs will shoot content for very little money.. no professional equipment is really needed. think selfshot hardcore content. there will be less "pro" production, more selfshot amateur type productions also the rates for "pro" content will decrease a little, but not much as "we" as an industry compete with the escort market. If a hot girl can make more escorting, she will jump ship, many already work both markets.. |
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...forget about what you know as "adult business". The good news is adult business is facing the challenge of turning really PRO. That's it, right there, everyone here should read that at least 40 fucking times! Beat it into your brain, understand it, talk to mainstream business owners and get some advice. Amateur Night at the Apollo is over folks put your big boy pants on and learn to play the game ;) Best of luck to everyone that learns to play the new game! I'll see you on the playing field :) |
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I mean... 100 dying businesses!!! |
I have shot more content in 2009 then ever. I am shooting for more companies than ever as well. I have also seen quite a few programs come and go in my short time in this business. They are just like the fresh models that come to LA you never know how long they will last or if they will get shot out. One thing is for sure, you have to hustle to make money in this business and if you are lazy you will eventually fail.
I dont think raising models prices is such a bad thing if it raises the quality of the models either. There are some really fucking ugly girls that should not be in porn right now. There should be a higher rate for the hot ones and the ugly ones should do triple anal for $600 Most of the top girls here at AVN are sevens at best. We need some 10s to shoot. |
Does it really matter if there is less or more?
Is there any money in it? If so where? If you did something else could you make more? Are there other opportunities? If thinking that repeating the same thing year after year is gonna bring in the same money then simply your mistaken. |
As long as our content is in every site, tube, VOD, PPV, Hotel, Mainstream VOD/PPV, Satelite, Mobile, Computer on the planet im happy :pimp
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Ex. cam sites do not have 1000s of sites stealing their content, instead they provide cheap ways for others to mimic what they do by offering whitelabels, co-brands etc. + let surfers sign up as models and thereby use the decentralized marketplace to their own advantage. |
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The amazing thing about the internet is that men are now free to follow their true desires. And the shocking part is that they aren't all interested in "10's" It's easier to make a sale on an Asian Granny or a fat "ugly" girl than it is to sell a membershp to a site with what we all think of as a "10" The human mind and sexuality in general is a lot more complex than a lot of folks think. And when given the anonyminity of the internet to purchase the porn that satisfies their deepest fantasies..well, suddenly tranny stuff sells like crazy, BBW sells like hotcakes, old ladies and grannies are super hot. And the least selling stuff? Well, that would be the cute teen stuff or the glamorous "10" babe stuff. Amateur and "ugly" girls sell like a motherfucker. Now don't get me wrong...beautiful women will of course sell too. BUT they have to have a great personality that shines and they have to be able to fuck with passion on camera. Not trying to say you're wrong...but, as a guy who has sold enough memberships for every major and small company in this business...I have a pretty good handle on what sells and what is harder to sell. And those glamorous "10's" are the girls we want to put on our arm when we go out in public. But those girls you might find "ugly" seem to be the ones that guys secretly fantasize about fucking...or at least the guys who spend money do. |
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On the other hand a really good looking woman who also has personality and kicks ass in bed is golden. I know what you're saying about the companies that hire you to shoot what they think will sell. And a lot of it does sell. But most of those big companies are owned by guys who have no connection to their biz. You know what I'm saying. They delegate everything and know very little about what the average person likes in porn. Thus all the generic porn with the same boring "hot" girls that I can throw traffic at all day long and see zero sales. :( Anyway, good discussion. Hope things keep going well for you, and if I could make a suggestion to you at all it would be to fast track your own paysites with your own exclusive content as soon as you are financially able to and stop shooting for other companies. I know it's quick money, but with things the way they are with a lot of these companies going down fast...you know what I'm saying. :) |
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They might as well lite their money on fire. |
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1. There are more shooters willing to shoot pussy for less money. 2. There are less shoots ordered by the programs, so there is a trend where the programs only approve the hottest of the girls submitted, wheras a year ago these same programs were happy with mediocre looking girls.. actually i kinda dig it:thumbsup:thumbsup |
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the reason we are in this mess is cause shoots use to be $2500, then 1 guy said I will do it for $2k and then another for $1500 and so on... Doing this stuff for years both Adult and Mainstream the only guys that have gotten ahead are the ones who only owned their own content...thats it! And Jay your defiantely at the caliber to own your own. |
Way fucking less
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Way less on professional, huge increase in amateur/homemade. 2010 may be the year that the customers learn they no longer need to pay for professionally produced content and embrace the community factor of sharing their content with others for the love of content and not the profit of content. It's coming sooner than most think.
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Shooting content. Here's the key (if you're a 'small' company, not a giant program with tons of resources):
Shoot a lot for a little money, maximize profits. Depending on the type of content you're looking for, it can cost you little. OR it can cost you an arm and a leg! Basically, if your site you are shooting content for, and paying for the content, is just your 'typical' BangBros, Reality Kings-type stuff (and those are great sites, not knocking ANYone here) then you're never really going to be able to compete. BUT if your site is unique, or a niche, or a fetish, or something someone cannot find fre or cheap or everywhere, then it's 'worth it'. O why can't girls just let us film them for FREE? LOL |
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Amateur Content is a niche, whether or not it remains profitable it doesn't matter as it it comes and goes out of style...ie the more generated the more saturation the less the demand. Photography and mvoing pictures have been with us for 100+ years. The internet is only a selling platform. A new one where people came in and it was gangbusters, no different then any other media when it was first introduced. Prices come down markets get flooded however there is always a need for good and fresh content. |
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