List of the trash we were able to shed in '09

People went crazy with AFF "sponsoring" the tubes, these guys manage to sponsor the tubes and fuck the surfers. Double whammy

As long as my bills are paid on time that is all I care about... I do have some outstanding debt and am not rich by any means... but I really have no complaints. I hope to retire early and travel the world... that would be great... but I am more than comfortable in my 4 bedroom 2600 sq ft house... driving my 07 chrysler sebring, paying cash for my daughters college and not having a dipshit like you telling me what to do. If that makes you better than me then you live in fantasy land. I don't and never will need a big fancy house that cost 3-5 times as much as mine or imported car that costs 5 times more than the one I have now that serves the same purpose and I certainly do not think you are better than me in any way, shape or form. We both take shits and we both have to eat and breathe to live and when that ends it won't matter much will it?

word to that...

Oh okay...if they follow up with a second page that explains it all, then they can say it's just tricky advertising (I personally think it's wrong). That would explain how they get away with it.

this thread is getting a little bit more interesting.

12clicks, what is your position with all of these allegations of fraud relating to undisclosed xsales slash hidden sales?

Maybe that is why he is laying off? The position of immediately refunding every surfer that is knowledgable enough to contact the site owner on umpteen charges is no longer available because the site owner is no longer screwing the piss out of surfers...

nah... i doubt it.

What are you talking about? Ron doesn't do any of that stuff. He does regular old x-sells. The talk of hidden x-sells was off topic talk that has nothing to do with him.

You just dont understand bottom runger! Its all about wealth, success and totally awesome shirts!

Youre just too broke and tattered to understand the methods of success.

whatdidyousay? excusemenowidontunderstand?

You didn't just say good 'ol regular x-sells did you?

I just went to one of his sites.

nastypinkteens... filled out info. on the first page and got to the second. I actually saw no x-sales on either page.

So, I suppose the good 'ol x-sales are gone... huh?

Hey x-sells have been around since the beginning. But I'm not gonna get in that argument again with people. But just a hint...there are a LOT of programs out there that make the massive majority of their money from x-sells. 12clicks isn't even close to being at that level of it.

Nothing wrong with it...it's just a different and much more lucrative way to make a LOT of money.

Me? I enjoy the actual porn business too much to get into the numbers crunching game of x-sells to any extent.

For instance, about a month ago I was at Guitar Center here in Vegas and was speaking to the owner of a VERY big program that is promoted by a lot of people right here on GFY. He asked me how piracy was affecting biz. I told him the steps I had taken to stop it.

He replied that he was glad that kinda shit didn't concern him. He makes 7 figures every month on x-sells. Keep in mind...this program has about a hundred damn websites! I stopped counting them after 55 lol

He actually told me that he hadn't even LOOKED at his shit in months! And that he didn't give a fuck about any of it because the whole thing was about x-sells.

Not saying that's good or bad...just sayin'

He basically isn't even in the porn biz anymore pretty much. Yet he owns all those sites and a huge affiliate program. Wild isn't it?

Anyway, I don't really care what you think or don't think about x-sells. The fact is they are an accepted form of business that has been around since forever. If you've ever promoted paysites...then chances are you promoted x-sells and didn't even know it. Just the way it is.

DeeJ is pretty cool IMHO

I don't understand your mentality. search my name, I make my own money.

What is clear is that banging cards the legal way, or the illegal way, will certainly hurt the way CC's are processed.

Could I bang my surfer's, ... of course I could. I understand making money but what YOU do NOT understand is that I made it legit... think about that for a little

I'm not quite sure what you're even saying. And I don't care. I don't want to argue about it. Arguing about legit x-sells is like arguing over the sky being blue. It's the way it is. So you think about that for a little. "banging" lol Tell it to the airlines, hosting companies, your phone company, your own bank... We all get x-sold everyday in every way. They just don't call it "x-sell" But whatever. I'm just trying to say what is real and not real. And Ron may enjoy acting out on GFY, but he certainly doesn't do anything wrong or illegit. And neither do the 90% of the programs that run x-sells.

The 10% who don't are mostly guys who don't understand how to do it, or don't have enough volume to be able to do it, or they never heard of it. Remember this...if a person is x-sold, all they have to do is cancel and ask for their money back or do a chargeback.

But the numbers don't lie. Most of them not only never want their money back...but they rebill for a long time. The last x-sell deal I did ended in Feb. of 2008. I did mine in a revshare deal...everybody else just buys them, but I wanted to make sure there was no funny business going on.

So my deal was small potatoes. Made about 30 grand a month. And guess what? I'm STILL getting rebills off of those x-sells! Theories and assumptions are nice, but numbers don't lie.