Data Shows that the Stimulus Package Was a Waste of Money

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  • Barefootsies
    Choice is an Illusion
    • Feb 2005
    • 42635

    #1

    Data Shows that the Stimulus Package Was a Waste of Money

    To put it kindly, the stimulus package that President Barack Obama, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi rushed through Congress at the beginning of his presidency has been a flop. It is not just that the $789 billion package has not had the effect the White House promised it would; it's that it may actually have been counterproductive, actually lengthening the recession by effectively taking money out of the private economy, where it could have been used to create jobs and for investment purposes. Instead it has been parceled out by the government, which has been unable to track where it has gone or what impact it has really had on job creation. And that has led to any number of fallacious statements by senior administration officials about jobs "created or saved."

    There is really no way to assess the number of jobs "saved," which has been the principle rallying cry of the White House over the last few months. Moreover, as data released Friday by the Republicans on the House Committee on Ways and Means makes clear, payroll employment has declined in every state except North Dakota and in the District of Columbia in the nine months since the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has been law. Likewise the national unemployment rate, which Obama promised would not exceed 8 percent if the stimulus became law, has reached a 25-year high of over 10 percent.

    As the table below indicates, in no state has anything like the promised job creation occurred. In Alabama, for example, the White House estimated that the stimulus package would generate 52,000 jobs by the end of calendar 2010. Yet the government's own figures show the state has lost a net 30,700 jobs through the end of November 2009. In Illinois, which sent Barack Obama to Washington back in November 2004, the White House estimated a net increase of 148,000 jobs but the state has lost more than 150,000 thus far.

    In California, the home state of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the prediction was that 396,000 new jobs would be created by the end of next year. So far it has lost just over 340,000. In Nevada, where Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is in the fight of his political life as far as his 2010 re-election bid is concerned, the estimates predicted 34,000 new jobs would be created. So far this year, since the stimulus has been enacted, it has lost more than 50,000.

    From the House Committee of Ways and Means Republicans Website

    All told, the nation has lost 2.6 million jobs since the "shovel ready" stimulus dollars started to flow, rather than create the promised 3.5 million, putting the Obama administration 6.1 million jobs in the hole. That's a lot of jobs to make up in twelve months, and at a pace that would outstrip even the Reagan Recovery, which ultimately created 20 million new jobs by the end of his eight-year presidency.

    It is now abundantly clear, even as rumors of a third stimulus package continue to circulate, that a new approach to job creation is needed.
    Charts by state(s) and full story
    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/peter-ro...-of-money.html
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  • baddog
    So Fucking Banned
    • Apr 2001
    • 107089

    #2
    Has to be b.s. He hasn't been president long enough to make any measurable difference.

    If Obama says he saved jobs, who are we to question him?

    Comment

    • MetaMan
      I AM WEB 2.0
      • Jan 2003
      • 28682

      #3
      Here is my thought:

      a main reason why the economies were not able to recover is that all of our manufacturing almost globally was shipped to china and india, that is why you saw such a BOOM there. the greedy fucks from around the world sold out and made these peasant countries filthy rich.

      my dad works in manufacturing (plastics) in the USA and for years it was a struggle plants closing etc etc. now he has no problem finding a job. he is now off to phoenix to basically work final 2 years and retire. where a couple years ago it took him nearly 6months - 1 year to find a job. and he is highly skilled as a manager with a degree also.

      and i DO think this is due to bailout money streaming into the manufacturing center.

      if they keep it up it will help recovery. a strong economy over a long period of time has to keep up its manufacturing core. it helps keep up the middle class and gives workers who arent knowledge base a chance to still make a good living.

      the more of these people who make a good living the less they are a strain on society and it has a trickle effect from the top to the bottom.

      so in short i do think it has helped and i hope to God they keep strong investment in manufacturing and DO turn into a more of a protectionist society which they are already doing.

      all these companies who sold out to overseas should be clubbed with a wooden bat.
      Last edited by MetaMan; 12-19-2009, 11:54 AM.

      Comment

      • Barefootsies
        Choice is an Illusion
        • Feb 2005
        • 42635

        #4
        Originally posted by baddog
        Has to be b.s. He hasn't been president long enough to make any measurable difference.

        If Obama says he saved jobs, who are we to question him?
        Agreed.

        He has not even been in office a year.

        However, our society today expects the world, and presidents, to move as fast as American Idol. You should be able to solve the world's issues, regardless of what they are, in the course of season one.

        Should You Email Your Members?

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        Enough Said.

        "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

        Comment

        • DaddyHalbucks
          A freakin' legend!
          • Feb 2004
          • 18975

          #5
          The only people worse than Obama.. are Pelosi and Reid and the other bums in Congress.
          Boner Money

          Comment

          • Barefootsies
            Choice is an Illusion
            • Feb 2005
            • 42635

            #6
            Originally posted by MetaMan
            Here is my thought:

            a main reason why the economies were not able to recover is that all of our manufacturing almost globally was shipped to china and india, that is why you saw such a BOOM there. the greedy fucks from around the world sold out and made these peasant countries filthy rich.

            my dad works in manufacturing (plastics) in the USA and for years it was a struggle plants closing etc etc. now he has no problem finding a job. he is now off to phoenix to basically work final 2 years and retire. where a couple years ago it took him nearly 6months - 1 year to find a job. and he is highly skilled as a manager with a degree also.

            and i DO think this is due to bailout money streaming into the manufacturing center.

            if they keep it up it will help recovery. a strong economy over a long period of time has to keep up its manufacturing core. it helps keep up the middle class and gives workers who arent knowledge base a chance to still make a good living.

            the more of these people who make a good living the less they are a strain on society and it has a trickle effect from the top to the bottom.

            so in short i do think it has helped and i hope to God they keep strong investment in manufacturing and DO turn into a more of a protectionist society which they are already doing.

            all these companies who sold out to overseas should be clubbed with a wooden bat.
            Also agreed.

            I think that realistically Obama simply needs to refer to a history book. Specifically the New Deal and the programs that created jobs. I can think of a TON of shit that needs to be done in this country. I will not go into the education system, as I think a lot of money is wasted there, but this country's infrastructure alone is in chaos.

            Most of the highways, tunnels, bridges and interstates were designed and built to last 50 years. A large majority of public works projects were built from 40/50/60's. There are enormous problems looming for the country domestically. Fuck this 'nation building' bullshit in other countries around the world while our falls apart.

            I personally think they need a good 10 year plan, end the wars, and use that money to fuel green technology, and AMERICAN infrastructure. But that's just me.

            That said, Obama (or anyone for that matter) is not going to turn around the world, or America's, economic problems in one year or less.
            Last edited by Barefootsies; 12-19-2009, 12:00 PM.
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            • xxweekxx
              Confirmed User
              • Oct 2002
              • 6780

              #7
              Originally posted by Barefootsies
              Agreed.

              He has not even been in office a year.

              However, our society today expects the world, and presidents, to move as fast as American Idol. You should be able to solve the world's issues, regardless of what they are, in the course of season one.

              i think baddog was being sarcastic.. he doesnt like obama or black people.. you havent figured it out by now?
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              • MetaMan
                I AM WEB 2.0
                • Jan 2003
                • 28682

                #8
                Originally posted by xxweekxx
                i think baddog was being sarcastic.. he doesnt like obama or black people.. you havent figured it out by now?
                WHOA WHOA WHOAH nobody doesnt like obama cause hes black people dont like him because he is muslim.

                get your facts straight.

                Comment

                • Vendzilla
                  Biker Gnome
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 23200

                  #9
                  Well right now they are forcing a vote on passing the medical reform bill the forcing everyone to have medical insurance by law, which is against the constitution, but who are we to say whats good for us or not?
                  Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                  think about that

                  Comment

                  • Juicy D. Links
                    So Fucking Banned
                    • Apr 2001
                    • 122992

                    #10
                    Originally posted by MetaMan
                    WHOA WHOA WHOAH nobody doesnt like obama cause hes black people dont like him because he is muslim.

                    get your facts straight.
                    metaman is a communist

                    Comment

                    • Barefootsies
                      Choice is an Illusion
                      • Feb 2005
                      • 42635

                      #11
                      Originally posted by xxweekxx
                      i think baddog was being sarcastic.. he doesnt like obama or black people.. you havent figured it out by now?
                      Hmmm.... re-reading it. I suppose it is possible. I frankly have not kept up with BD's politics.

                      However, I made a mistake in that regard. I was addressing the first paragraph, not the send about Obama the black superman.

                      Sorry about that.
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                      Enough Said.

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                      Comment

                      • fatfoo
                        ICQ:649699063
                        • Mar 2003
                        • 27763

                        #12
                        "parceled out by the government, which has been unable to track where it has gone or what impact it has really had on job creation" - that's unfortunate
                        Send me an email: [email protected]

                        Comment

                        • xxweekxx
                          Confirmed User
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 6780

                          #13
                          yeah im not even talking about obama.. baddog is a redneck racist old man..

                          one post i said hey im moving to san diego... im black, 24yrs old..

                          his exact reply, "there goes the neighborhood"

                          plus he is in every thread that has to do with racism/obama..

                          anyways cant blame him..his grandpa probably owned slaves.. his generation will die out soon within <10yrs and racism should drop by at least 30%
                          _________________
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                          • Barefootsies
                            Choice is an Illusion
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 42635

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Vendzilla
                            Well right now they are forcing a vote on passing the medical reform bill the forcing everyone to have medical insurance by law, which is against the constitution, but who are we to say whats good for us or not?
                            Agreed.

                            If memory serves, Maine or some north eastern state passed something similar. So that is being held up as the 'model' for this bullshit. I do not think it should be forced on anyone personally.

                            I think there should be a basic health care offered to anyone via Medicare or whatever. Then people can opt for the supplemental coverage. Whether paid by employer or individual.

                            If insurance companies want to stay in business, then they need to be competitive. Their are still going to be many who opt to pay for supplemental coverage. Just as some doctors now do not accept all insurance types.

                            That said, it is far too complex an issue for myself, or anyone, to sum up with a few posts on GFY. We will all speak from the different socio-economic perspectives. But I think that some form of basic coverage should be offered, and not forced, to the legal U.S. citizens who pay fucking taxes.

                            But I digress...
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                            Enough Said.

                            "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                            Comment

                            • Barefootsies
                              Choice is an Illusion
                              • Feb 2005
                              • 42635

                              #15
                              Originally posted by xxweekxx
                              yeah im not even talking about obama.. baddog is a redneck racist old man..

                              one post i said hey im moving to san diego... im black, 24yrs old..

                              his exact reply, "there goes the neighborhood"

                              plus he is in every thread that has to do with racism/obama..

                              anyways cant blame him..his grandpa probably owned slaves.. his generation will die out soon within <10yrs and racism should drop by at least 30%
                              Should You Email Your Members?

                              Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                              Enough Said.

                              "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                              Comment

                              • baddog
                                So Fucking Banned
                                • Apr 2001
                                • 107089

                                #16
                                Originally posted by xxweekxx
                                i think baddog was being sarcastic.. he doesnt like obama or black people.. you havent figured it out by now?

                                Just because I don't like you doesn't mean I don't like black people.




                                Originally posted by xxweekxx
                                yeah im not even talking about obama.. baddog is a redneck racist old man..

                                one post i said hey im moving to san diego... im black, 24yrs old..

                                his exact reply, "there goes the neighborhood"

                                plus he is in every thread that has to do with racism/obama..

                                anyways cant blame him..his grandpa probably owned slaves.. his generation will die out soon within <10yrs and racism should drop by at least 30%
                                You think a lot of yourself. I never even knew you were black until your panties got into a wad after that post. It would not matter what color you were, I would feel the same way.

                                Comment

                                • theking
                                  Nice Kitty
                                  • Sep 2002
                                  • 21053

                                  #17
                                  It is my understanding that only a small portion of the stimulus package has been distributed and the bulk remains intact...and is awaiting the conclusion of contracts etc. to be negotiated...and will probably be distributed over the next couple of years...so it is to early to tell what the effects will be. Of course you will have Republicans claiming what they claim and Democrats claiming what they claim which has little to do with the actual truth.
                                  When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

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                                  Comment

                                  • Barefootsies
                                    Choice is an Illusion
                                    • Feb 2005
                                    • 42635

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by theking
                                    Of course you will have Republicans claiming what they claim and Democrats claiming what they claim which has little to do with the actual truth.
                                    Should You Email Your Members?

                                    Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                    Enough Said.

                                    "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                    Comment

                                    • nation-x
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Mar 2004
                                      • 5370

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                      http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx

                                      Comment

                                      • Matt 26z
                                        So Fucking Banned
                                        • Apr 2002
                                        • 18481

                                        #20
                                        The media likes to quote the $789 Billion figure and say that it had no effect.

                                        The problem with these reports is that only 30% of the stimulus money has actually been used. It is being spread out over 2009-2011.

                                        Comment

                                        • nation-x
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Mar 2004
                                          • 5370

                                          #21
                                          All told, the nation has lost 2.6 million jobs since the "shovel ready" stimulus dollars started to flow, rather than create the promised 3.5 million, putting the Obama administration 6.1 million jobs in the hole. That's a lot of jobs to make up in twelve months, and at a pace that would outstrip even the Reagan Recovery, which ultimately created 20 million new jobs by the end of his eight-year presidency.
                                          Not one person in the Obama Administration or Congress said that the Recovery Act would impact jobs much in 2009. As you can see on recovery.gov... only a little over 31% of the funds have been AWARDED and only a fraction of those projects have even been started yet... so they haven't even received funding yet.

                                          Comment

                                          • xxweekxx
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Oct 2002
                                            • 6780

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by baddog
                                            Just because I don't like you doesn't mean I don't like black people.






                                            You think a lot of yourself. I never even knew you were black until your panties got into a wad after that post. It would not matter what color you were, I would feel the same way.
                                            LOL like every closet racist.. they have 2 black friends..

                                            so you think posting a picture of you and a black guy makes you NOT racist.. fucking dumb ass..

                                            id be more impressed if you had a bunch of CLOSE black friends, than a random snapshopt..

                                            anyway you are racist, ive been here many years and seen you jump into every racial/black thread.. and ive seen how you reply.. im not stupid amigo.. anyway whatever, you will die soon so all good.. cant wait for your generation to get the fuck out
                                            _________________
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                                            • baddog
                                              So Fucking Banned
                                              • Apr 2001
                                              • 107089

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by xxweekxx

                                              anyway you are racist, ive been here many years and seen you jump into every racial/black thread.. and ive seen how you reply.. im not stupid amigo.. anyway whatever, you will die soon so all good.. cant wait for your generation to get the fuck out
                                              Pretty sure I could find stats that suggest you are living on borrowed time.

                                              And for the record, I don't have "a bunch of CLOSE friends" of any particular race. Racist punk.
                                              Last edited by baddog; 12-19-2009, 01:39 PM.

                                              Comment

                                              • xxweekxx
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Oct 2002
                                                • 6780

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by baddog
                                                Pretty sure I could find stats that suggest you are living on borrowed time.

                                                And for the record, I don't have "a bunch of CLOSE friends" of any particular race. Racist punk.
                                                ok ill just leave you alone... i am racist? LOL i love everyone equally.. not too many young recent college grads are racist you know... we get to mix and match in college.

                                                your generation has a lot of racist fucks.. you cant deny this.. everytime i run into someone racist its always an older fuck like you, but like i said, soon soon you guys will die out and maybe racism will decrease in USA....
                                                _________________
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                                                Comment

                                                • baddog
                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                  • 107089

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by xxweekxx
                                                  i am racist?

                                                  Comment

                                                  • slapass
                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                    • Nov 2002
                                                    • 14625

                                                    #26
                                                    The stimulus package has been huge in housing. We are experiencing a mini boom in low priced housing. A perfect place for it as housing is mostly a local issue. He made me money so I would vote for him again.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Vendzilla
                                                      Biker Gnome
                                                      • Mar 2004
                                                      • 23200

                                                      #27
                                                      WHats sad is that most of the stimulus money has been going to dem's areas, not the GOP's, the ratio is like 2 to 1 , and how much of out money was spent giving these senators to get the health care to where it is? It should be about a vote, not how much I can get.
                                                      Remember., Obama said NO earmarks!
                                                      Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                      think about that

                                                      Comment

                                                      • SuzzyQ
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Dec 2006
                                                        • 1557

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                        Remember., Obama said NO earmarks!
                                                        Obama lied and we are about to get royally screwed with the Health care bill...

                                                        Comment

                                                        • uno
                                                          RIP Dodger. BEST.CAT.EVER
                                                          • Dec 2002
                                                          • 18450

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by baddog
                                                          Just because I don't like you doesn't mean I don't like black people.






                                                          You think a lot of yourself. I never even knew you were black until your panties got into a wad after that post. It would not matter what color you were, I would feel the same way.

                                                          Link Hotten.
                                                          -uno
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                                                          • RayBonga
                                                            too cool for highschool
                                                            • Nov 2005
                                                            • 12164

                                                            #30
                                                            whoever worte it has no idea about basic concepts of macroeconomy.

                                                            you can pay people to dig holes in the morning and cover them in the afternoon and still achieve a usefull effect in jump starting a countrys economy.

                                                            I'm tired of reading retarded articles trying to establish basic comparisons to everyday live, that's just not how thigns work. Just cheap rethoric to achieve some political goal.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Libertine
                                                              sex dwarf
                                                              • May 2002
                                                              • 17860

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                              That is one of the dumbest articles I have ever read.

                                                              Not because the stimulus package did or didn't work, but because the argument that is being used in the article to conclude that it didn't work just isn't valid.

                                                              It's like a patient complaining that his meds don't work because his blood pressure has continued to rise - while leaving out the key fact that he's been eating half a roasted pig a day.

                                                              The stimulus package isn't the sole determinant of employment figures, so looking merely at job losses is completely pointless. To see if the stimulus package has had an effect or not, a thorough comparison needs to be made between the actual numbers and an estimate of the numbers we would have seen without the stimulus package.
                                                              /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                              Comment

                                                              • uno
                                                                RIP Dodger. BEST.CAT.EVER
                                                                • Dec 2002
                                                                • 18450

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by theking
                                                                It is my understanding that only a small portion of the stimulus package has been distributed and the bulk remains intact...and is awaiting the conclusion of contracts etc. to be negotiated...and will probably be distributed over the next couple of years...so it is to early to tell what the effects will be. Of course you will have Republicans claiming what they claim and Democrats claiming what they claim which has little to do with the actual truth.
                                                                Yep, most of the stimulus is supposed to be dispensed and/or utilized over the next year. It even says so in the article posted that figures are projected at calendar end 2010. It was probably set up that way to help dems in the mid term elections AFTER the majority of the stimulus kicks in.
                                                                -uno
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                                                                Comment

                                                                • CarlosTheGaucho
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Oct 2005
                                                                  • 9559

                                                                  #33
                                                                  A country that doesn't innovate, produce, manufacture and support small businesses lands in trouble, it's not only the question of how to employ the average worker.

                                                                  It's the question of how to make living standards generally affordable, and keep people spending money, which is the blood of a healthy economy and creates further opportunities.

                                                                  Just check how many countries these days suffer from structural unemployment - it's not that those people would not be qualified or wouldn't want to work, but their jobs are simply 2000 miles away now for one third of the salary, which sets a trend with all the other huge companies, to stay competitive.

                                                                  You can find all those monkey megadomes over here - DHL, IBM, InBev, Accenture, Delloite & Touche...

                                                                  Tens of thousands of young people who should be hungry to make it are taking calls from all over the world and pile tons of invoices for $1000 a month which is not enough to even rent a decent flat and live like a human (since the prices here are artificially driven up by taxation, bureocratic fees and megacorporational lobby anyway).

                                                                  They're lobotomized during the college, since those companies are the biggest sponsors of "public" universities and even usually receive gifts like tax holidays from the "national" government. I've been there, seen that.

                                                                  So the result is a mass of productive workforce producing nothing, making no money to spend on anything, with local budget making nothing - someone check economy books for a definition of this groundbreaking economical approach - if I remember well.. I guess last time it was officially called ass fuck.

                                                                  Why? Well someone needs to make more.

                                                                  Globalization my ass - Greed international Inc.
                                                                  Last edited by CarlosTheGaucho; 12-19-2009, 03:39 PM.
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                                                                  • CarlosTheGaucho
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Oct 2005
                                                                    • 9559

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Damn that was long, I'm off..
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                                                                    • Iron Fist
                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                      • Dec 2006
                                                                      • 23400

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by CarlosTheGaucho
                                                                      Damn that was long, I'm off..
                                                                      No kidding..... damn racist stimulus discussion!
                                                                      i like waffles

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • tony299
                                                                        lurker
                                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                                        • 57021

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                        Well right now they are forcing a vote on passing the medical reform bill the forcing everyone to have medical insurance by law, which is against the constitution, but who are we to say whats good for us or not?
                                                                        You mean like Car Insurance?

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • MetaMan
                                                                          I AM WEB 2.0
                                                                          • Jan 2003
                                                                          • 28682

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by CarlosTheGaucho
                                                                          Why? Well someone needs to make more.

                                                                          Globalization my ass - Greed international Inc.
                                                                          fully agree globalization just puts the power and money in the hands of few. it is getting really sad at what this world is turning into.

                                                                          if this keep sup everyone will just work for a mega corporation and small business will be drowned out.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • baddog
                                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                                            • Apr 2001
                                                                            • 107089

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by tony404
                                                                            You mean like Car Insurance?
                                                                            You do not have to have car insurance. You don't even have to own a car.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Barefootsies
                                                                              Choice is an Illusion
                                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                                              • 42635

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by nation-x
                                                                              Not one person in the Obama Administration or Congress said that the Recovery Act would impact jobs much in 2009. As you can see on recovery.gov... only a little over 31% of the funds have been AWARDED and only a fraction of those projects have even been started yet... so they haven't even received funding yet.
                                                                              Yeah, that was what I thought as well. However, this article like many others, is more so partition nonsense. I have heard that most of the money had not been actually spent yet, and a lot of that TARP money has actually been back.

                                                                              A lot of good points from you, and some of the others, in the replies.
                                                                              Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                              Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                              Enough Said.

                                                                              "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • GatorB
                                                                                The Demon & 12clicks
                                                                                • Oct 2001
                                                                                • 18208

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                                bullshit

                                                                                and you know it.

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                                                                                • baddog
                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                                  • 107089

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                                  . . . and a lot of that TARP money has actually been back.
                                                                                  But there are dems that want to go ahead and spend it. It is free money.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Barefootsies
                                                                                    Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                    • Feb 2005
                                                                                    • 42635

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by baddog
                                                                                    But there are dems that want to go ahead and spend it. It is free money.
                                                                                    Actually I did hear that this past week.

                                                                                    There apparently is discussion to keep the money liquid, and to use it for other plans. I do not recall the endless things mentioned. But it was something about small business, and losing up credit. Schools, and some other programs.

                                                                                    If I remember correctly. The Republicans simply wanted to pay down the debt of their former president. But I just caught the tail end of the story. However, I am sure there is still plenty more partisan bickering to go on for 2010....
                                                                                    Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                                    Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                                    Enough Said.

                                                                                    "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

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                                                                                    • kane
                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                      • Aug 2001
                                                                                      • 20684

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                                      Actually I did hear that this past week.

                                                                                      There apparently is discussion to keep the money liquid, and to use it for other plans. I do not recall the endless things mentioned. But it was something about small business, and losing up credit. Schools, and some other programs.

                                                                                      If I remember correctly. The Republicans simply wanted to pay down the debt of their former president. But I just caught the tail end of the story. However, I am sure there is still plenty more partisan bickering to go on for 2010....
                                                                                      I also read some good stuff this week about how the administration is considering not accepting the full TARP repayments from some banks. If they take the money and are paid back in full then they have no say in how the banks run. They want to keep a hand on the banks so they are considering not accepting the full payoffs so that they still have some control over them.

                                                                                      The idea, at least that this article put forth, was that there are a lot of banks out there making a lot of profit, but they aren't lending much money. If the government still has a hold of them they can kick the lending up and force them to make loans to business and consumers. If they take the money back then the banks are free to do as they want and they can just sit there and continue to rake in the profits from interest and late fees and not loan anything out.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • onwebcam
                                                                                        Fake Nick 1.0
                                                                                        • Oct 2005
                                                                                        • 27689

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        What amazing is everyone here is arguing over how much of that quoted figure they have and haven't spent. When the reality is they just used that money as reserves. If you aren't familiar with fractional banking here's what they did. They put the money into one bank account and then loaned out 10x that amount and put that into other bank accounts. In total they made disappear somewhere around 24 trillion dollars. Now the question is where did that money go and whats going to happen when all that shit comes flying back in? Can anyone say $10 loaf of bread?
                                                                                        Last edited by onwebcam; 12-20-2009, 12:00 AM.
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                                                                                        • onwebcam
                                                                                          Fake Nick 1.0
                                                                                          • Oct 2005
                                                                                          • 27689

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          BTW $24 trillion dollars would pay off every single house with a mortgage, every car loan, and every credit card in America.
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                                                                                          • Barefootsies
                                                                                            Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                            • Feb 2005
                                                                                            • 42635

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by kane
                                                                                            I also read some good stuff this week about how the administration is considering not accepting the full TARP repayments from some banks. If they take the money and are paid back in full then they have no say in how the banks run. They want to keep a hand on the banks so they are considering not accepting the full payoffs so that they still have some control over them.

                                                                                            The idea, at least that this article put forth, was that there are a lot of banks out there making a lot of profit, but they aren't lending much money. If the government still has a hold of them they can kick the lending up and force them to make loans to business and consumers. If they take the money back then the banks are free to do as they want and they can just sit there and continue to rake in the profits from interest and late fees and not loan anything out.
                                                                                            Yep. I had heard the same.

                                                                                            I guess he had made some speech in regards to 'opening up credit' or loosening credit, especially for small business and credit worthy people.
                                                                                            Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                                            Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                                            Enough Said.

                                                                                            "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • knobish
                                                                                              Registered User
                                                                                              • Aug 2009
                                                                                              • 53

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              This is the last argument Obama lovers use, if you don't like him you're a racist. I got called a racist too many times by the socialist retards that don't remember that our republic has a constitution that we wipe our asses with daily.

                                                                                              Originally posted by MetaMan
                                                                                              WHOA WHOA WHOAH nobody doesnt like obama cause hes black people dont like him because he is muslim.

                                                                                              get your facts straight.
                                                                                              Asian Peddler of Porn Videos.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • knobish
                                                                                                Registered User
                                                                                                • Aug 2009
                                                                                                • 53

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                And it was pretty well known to anyone that was paying attention that it'd be a waste. Thanks for the new Nascar tracks stimulus package! Amongst other retarded things. (read the documents). If you want a really nice picture of our long term financial position, especially dealing with taxes, lookup and read the grace commission report. Things haven't changed. Read the documents, because the articles and the 'news' reporters leave out everything that is important.


                                                                                                Originally posted by Barefootsies
                                                                                                Asian Peddler of Porn Videos.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Barefootsies
                                                                                                  Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                                                                  • 42635

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by knobish
                                                                                                  Read the documents, because the articles and the 'news' reporters leave out everything that is important.
                                                                                                  Absolutely agree with you 200%.
                                                                                                  Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                                                  Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                                                  Enough Said.

                                                                                                  "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • knobish
                                                                                                    Registered User
                                                                                                    • Aug 2009
                                                                                                    • 53

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by knobish
                                                                                                    If you want a really nice picture of our long term financial position, especially dealing with taxes, lookup and read the grace commission report.
                                                                                                    I could not resist adding perspective.

                                                                                                    http://wearechangecoloradosprings.or...ission1984.pdf

                                                                                                    "Resistance to additional income taxes would be even more widespread if people were aware that:
                                                                                                    -One-third of all their taxes is consumed by waste and inefficiency[stolen] in the Federal Government as we identified in our survey.

                                                                                                    -Another one-third of all their taxes escapes collection from others as the underground economy blossoms in direct proportion to tax increases and places even more pressure on law abiding tax payers, promoting still more underground economy -- a vicious circle that must be broken.

                                                                                                    -With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by the Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government"


                                                                                                    And thats why I'm moving to Holland at the first opportunity
                                                                                                    Last edited by knobish; 12-20-2009, 01:42 AM.
                                                                                                    Asian Peddler of Porn Videos.

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