I think the PB response was pretty shitty. Looked cookie cutter stylish (?) and gave me the impression that they couldn't provide a proper response because what Hooper said may have been true. Anyone else get this impression? Maybe it was just me...

Thanks for that screen shot idea, I was too stupid to ever think of it.

Anyone else have any PB stories? I've never dealt with them or their sites. Just curious...

damn I've never seen a sponsor call out another sponsor before.

Looks like hard times have come.

Nice stats p1mpdogg:thumbsup

I was wondering if those were the sales you generated or if that was from all your partners?

My dealing with hooper and platinum bucks have been great over the years. Maybe you guys should chat on the phone?

Wow, this is quite interesting, seeing one sponsor accusing another sponsor of shaving. This kind of shaving accusations flies on boards everyday, but coming from Hooper this is quite a different story since Hooper's traffic comes from excellent sources.

But based on the fact you were paid $100.00 and the stats showed $385.00 in sales and $485.00 in payouts, it would seem you only got paid for the cross-sales portion. Maybe its just an accounting glitch that they have your account as paid but only got paid on the cross-sales. Either way, it would be silly for someone to report higher stats and then shave on the payout once you know how many sales you really made.

Either way, I hope you guys resolve the problems...
WG

interesting thread, on several levels.

does that mean you're going to add me to your icq now? ;-))

those are affiliate stats combined together for sunday through today so far.
I understand that some of the conversions dont look the greatest.. but you need to consider.. I have 82 affiliates.. and some of them are not to bright when it comes to tgp traffic and therefor it messes the ratio up. I have steady mailers doing 1:70.. some doing 1:180 and some doing 1:500

I have some tgp guys doing 1:200.. 1:650... and 1:8000

this is an avg of everything within 2 days time. The point behind posting that was to show that I cant possibly be shaving with ratios like that. thats MY income, no point in shaving my own income is there? It was just an honest screen cap of how things are on my end.. I dont say I am the top converting sponsor on the planet.. But Im also not dirty like some out there.

quiet, could you please contact me: thechronic AT thesounds DOT com

It's about something completely non-web related.

Thanks.

these guys from AWI rule. Sponsors should start charging them for traffic on tour.

tranny trick II

i knew it!

Its kinda funny how every couple of days there a new thread about how the XYZ affiliate program shaves. Is there any sizable affiliate program that hasn't been accused of shaving? Of course not, because shaving or atleast accusations of shaving, are a part of the business.

Wow, what a mess this is.

I don't do any business with Platinum any more, but I've never had a problem with them.

I've also known Hooper probably as long as most people in this business and we've gone a few rounds about stuff in my CCBill days.

But I do think the situation must be pretty serious for it to come out on a board, and I would imagine that Hooper & Co have done about all they could in private on a resolution for it to come to this.

I hope you guys get it worked out, and soon.

Yeas, that's not the greates conversion ratio i've ever seen, but it's normal when you are dealing with affiliates. This is a good volume of sales though. Congrats on your program, seems to be working pretty well:thumbsup

It sucks to see this. I hope you work this crap out. What the fuck. :(

SixNine

What do i think? after reading this thread i might concur some one here is a theif.

READ THIS

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...79#post1174179

HOOPER IS BUSTED!!!!

hahaha... it's like you're a little kid

these are actually my 11 joins.....
Seriously it was a mixup from over a month ago......and it turns out they were mistakenly added to Hoopers account.

11 joins from a mailer over a month ago.....pretty surprised Hooper actually took the time to screen shot it and then post it here.....Hooper did you just find 11 joins one day????

I must have to say if Tim says it was his joins, I have to believe platinum bucks now. damn this is confusing

I would have just paid out both webmasters for 11 joins so I would have to deal with this.

Damn Roger on another board, you'd have a Pearl.

Roger I would never ever have expected Hooper to come on here with this.

I thought we were grown gentlemen and would be able to solve this other ways.

Never expected it would come to this.

Now its just a big ugly mess.

But I never brought this to the table, I am only defending myself and my reputation which is the MOST important thing to me in this entire industry.

So you just happened to notice the missing joins *today* a few minutes after we asked about our missing money from a period ending almost 30 days ago.

We take screen shots of every single sponsor at the end of their periods because we've seen signups *magically* disappear before.

From what you are saying then... Don't use any per sign up sponsors unless they use ccbill. At one time I wouldn't use **any** sponsor unless they used ccbill, just might be going back to that. Am so fucking sick and tired of reading about these fucking scum bag, cheating pay site's I could just :throwup

How is that Dave? By telling me to basically fuck off?

Be a man and contribute the missing money to a charity for children. I could care less about the cash as I posted in your thread... it's the principal of the matter.

You stole from my company and you know it... and whether 20% or 90% of the people reading this thread believe me the bottom line is that next time people are choosing sponsors they will have to think twice about using Platinum.

You guys all talk about stats and signups disappearing, what is your image of what's at the other side? It's a goddamn lot of code, and there will be bugs. Your SQL server of choice shits itself, a NIC gets fried, shit happens. What if another webmaster puts in your ref code?

Hooper, did you EARN those signups? Did you really send traffic to that site that day/month? Or did they just appear?

Of course the problem was fixed "magically" just after you brought it to them. I'm sure that until you pointed it out, they had no idea there was a problem. So they take that problem to their programmer and say, "Why is this?" and he tries to figure out what went wrong, and then correct it.

All I'm saying is there can be (and often are) legitimate mistakes, bugs, or problems with complex systems which every immediately assigns to theft.

And if you want to know that you're not being shaved, with any program, you need two things: Enough sales traffic to the affiliate in question that they don't want to loose you, and an ICQ to me. 1240050.

</programmer rant>

buran

What's wrong with you man? You don't *JUST* maybe think they will think the same thing about you and your company. Some of you people are dumber that a rock.

Hey! Some of my best friends are rocks.

Hooper icq me

59505407

Jon

This keeps getting funnier.

Looks like platinum passed the party line over to some friends and asked them to post.. so there are 2 guys now that are claiming that the 11 "magical" joins were theirs and that platinum fixed it just a few days later.. muahaha

Do they have trailer trash in canada?

Getting pretty heated up in this post.

hey buran,nice see you here :-)

exactly my words

Jesus Says:
"One who doesn't shave - let him cast the first stone!"!

;-))

Did Jesus Shave? I guess we'd have to ask boneprone.

I would have to say that Platinum is by far and away still the sponsor i have to put at the top of my shit list for the decade.

Too bad :-(

Oh well.. WE'RE still converting and are DEFINITELY not getting our merchant rights getting taken away.

Not sure about them.

This reminds me of the time I was having sex with one of my girlfriends (now an ex). She said 'ouch, youre rubbing me raw' - and she started crying. So I did it harder. She broke up with me. Maybe I shouldn't have kept fucking her so hard? Maybe I should've just paid her and left her alone... That would've made everyone happy ;)

Platinumbucks is a honest program i have very good ratio with them. its a script problem i think. its happend for me that i had a sale than it was gone after a few minutes ..at topbucks who using a similar script as pb
Thanks for the X - mas card btw Dave, Toni and Albert.
Happy new year
Johan L

Hehe.. what hooper's talking about isn't shaving, that's blatantly stealing. It's funny -- you can't shave cross sales because of datadumps, etc..

But, as someone else said above, the only real way to prove you're not shaving is to use your processor's reseller stats to track sales. This is what I do for my affiliates.. I use paycom, so I just have them manually multiply the initial sales by the amount they're getting paid per sign up... and it's really hard to afford more than $25 per free join.. even with two cross sales..I can do this cuz my affiliates don't care about click counting, etc.. just big traffic ppl, etc..private stuff

You should ask yourself why people who buy paycom ezclicks or cross sales only pay $20~ per sale? It's because they can't shave what the datadump shows... pretty funny that they pay regular webmasters so much more with an independent stats program.

Shaving is just the way the industry works.. W/o doing it, you just can't compete, typically speaking, unless you have something just really unique. Hate to say that, but it's true...

If other programs are paying $40/join, and you only pay $25-$30, and TRULY do not shave, you still just can't compete. It's a mental thing -- people think $40 per sign up, wow! Even if they're getting shaved down to $25-$30 (Which is the MOST anyone can afford without shaving, irrespective of what ANYONE claims).. with paycom you MIGHT be able to get away with $35/join if you have two prechecked ezclicks and an approval plus membership.. with cross sales in approval email as well :) but that's just gouging the surfer really badly. If you're not completely broke, and don't need immediate per sign up money, it would probably be better to just do a good revshare with someone who offers you raw processor stats. There are a few really good revshare programs who offer you raw stats.. 100percentcash.com does 100% revshare with raw epoch systems stats... they just make their money from exits...

but, yeah.. it's just the truth.. :(

I guess it's not my business, but I don't think a program would shave by removing your sign ups after the fact. :) That's purely illogical.

ahem.

Fetishbucks reseller #### sends us X amount of hits, gets 39 trials and 3 initial joins as full members. For this we pay him 1470.00 at $35.00 per join. 13 of those trials convert to full members, which along with the 3 initial joins means we made in the first month from this traffic:
$193.05 from the trial joins 39x35
$639.20 from the 16 full members 16x39.95
for a total so far of $832.40

assume that 50% of those members will be around next month. Add 416.20 to that total. Further assume that 50% of the remaining members will be around for ANOTHER month and add another 208.10 to the total. So far we have made 1664.80 from this traffic. Throw in another couple signups and subsequent recurrings on exit console sales, PLUS about $225.00 at least from cross-sells and our total has moved even higher. In the end we'll make about 2k and change on our initial payout of $1470.00 for a profit of around $530.00 on this small amount of traffic.

You can pay $35.00 per, and we do, and not shave. The trick is to be very vigilant about your traffic and watch for chargebacks, unproductive traffic etc. and kill these accounts quick. An honest webmaster + an honest program = money and happiness for both, but these days honesty is getting harder and harder to come by...

well bernie, i guess your sites are just good.....

i average like $25 per join plus cross sales

i have sponsors paying $35/trial and converting 1:45-50 on highly targetted traffic, first page clicks all day and night. It's hard for me to believe that they shave me signups. What would be my real ratio then 1:25? I have seen the performance of my traffic to sponsors with 3rd part stats and I know how well or bad it converts. I don't think its impossible to pay $35/trial without shaving. This model has been analysed here in the past plenty times.

...if you're just going to have a general conversation about shaving and conversions then you should move your conversation over to another thread...

rude!

yeah.. maybe so... but oh well..

you used your own hit counter on the out clicks?

i just can't see $35/join w/o shave... shit converts from trial at 30%, then 50-60% rebill every other month.. go figure

bumping a 11 days thread is lame... using such shaddy technique makes me puke...

:321GFY :321GFY :321GFY

Donnie you always use my real name.. who are you?

Is this Dustin?

I went to see
Jesus Christ Superstar yesterday just to answer your question.

the answer is:
Sebastian Bach as Jesus shaved a few notes from the original play written and performed 33 years ago
;-)))

Serge, you'll have more fun in this thread:

http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...pagenu mber=1

nice sig :glugglug

I'm Donnie .. I just use your real name cuz I saw it on here once. and I'm being serious about your sites... they're not crap plug in content sites like everyone elses so you prolly can pay $35 w/o shaving..

we have our share of plug-ins, we just make sure we use the RIGHT plug-ins :thumbsup

there are some killer content companies out there if you look around

sexentertain, cybersynergism, sexinc -- if you use them right you can make a very focused and very sticky member area. Add some custom stuff and you'll all set.

Donnie, clicks counted by script,but it's a niche traffic. To be honest, I don't see many teen or general hardcore paysites being close to such ratio and $/click.

Another revenue source for sponsors are the upsales, although if you see sites retaining for long time they don't upsell anything.