D,

I to have had this come up a few times over the 12 or so years we have been running proggies....

Personally I don't care if an affiliate ranks higher then us or anyone..

If they send a valid sale / order - they get paid..... Simple as that...

I would just pay and move on...

Peace

Todd

Do the right thing and pay me man.

Leave D alone, looks like he needs that cash. Honestly, not being sarcastic. Why would a guy spend so much time on this? He has all time, no money. Live and let live, consider the cash gone.

How can you possibly say for sure that those who clicked on Shoehorn's paid links and bought memberships would have done so had his links been non existant?

Gotcha. However, if you bid on the word "crack whore confessions" on phrase match, you would need to add "crack whore confessions" as a negative exact match term since phrase match allows the ads to be displayed as long as that text is used in the search query.

IMO wouldnt be a bad idea to display those in the TOS that MUST be in AdWords, Yhaoo, etc. campaigns. Would be a bit difficult to monitor, other than capturing the search query on the landing page from paid ad campaigns.

I have held the 1st search term for a term, and the top ad spot as well. Both send sales. If I didn't have the paid ad it would mean less sales.

Dirty D, this thread will cost you all of your SEO affiliates.

Grats.

In the old days this wouldn't of gotten this far (usually) - we had tons of pissing matches but when it came to pay or no pay, reputation meant everything..... unless one of the parties involved was scamming, etc....

I just belive - you always pay for valid signups / sales..........

There seems to be some confusion here. And a lack of common sense.
All of this has been explained to ShoeHorn while he was lying about purchasing the domain name and claiming he was sending traffic from exits and other sources...

We checked the referral URLs for every shoehorn sale and they are ONLY "Crack Whore Confessions" searches that sent any sales.
No derivitaves... No misspells... no extra keywords... NO SEM other than the EXACT domain name.

All derivitave keyword traffic has always been rewarded.

Here is a link to one such study (you can download the PDF):

http://www.icrossing.com/research/ic...rgy-report.php

Why would anyone want a thread like this over 350?
I know i wouldent, especially seeing as you both have a point......update the TOS imho

Purchased what domain name? I didn't purchase ANY domain name to send you traffic, I merely bid on search terms in Google.

That's what I was thinking - 1 page is bad enough :(

Dirty D, I'll even work with you and let you pay me in payments if that is better for you.

I am not trying to be a hardass here, just trying to get the money that I am owed. :2 cents:

I wonder what he spent his last $350 on

Just pay the man and avoid the negative PR. Update TOS if needed. No need to drag this out over a few hundred bucks

Probably bail for public indecency.

You're an ignorant dick. You obviously don't understand how this works. You assume that if the surfer didn't sign up to your program through Shoehorn's PPC, that they would have clicked on your non-affiliate link and signed up. That's flawed. This is a numbers game. They more clicks on the more links, affiliate or not, the better volume you'll have overall. Online is a numbers game.

Some big programs in mainstream or adult don't allow for bidding on trademarked PPC terms, and some do, or sometimes they'll run promotions where you can bid on them for a limited amount of time. But the fact is, it's all clearly stated. You ignorantly deciding (and not stating anywhere) that certain PPC traffic is "illegitimate" and not paying for it is thievery.

I hope your pride was worth it on this one, it will cost you money. :2 cents:

Probably something like this - http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...rty+d+arrested .

I like Dirty D and I really Like Jenni (not that she is an issue here)...

But this is bullshit.

You cant grandfather a rule that you realize you want to enforce now, especially after shoehorn spent his own money to send you traffic.

They did not search for "crackwhoreconfessions.com" so you are not losing one single type in...

clear a browser... type in "crack whore confessions" you don not get your domain... you get serps with you at the top. Apparently they didnt like your link and chose his off to the side bought link.

You made money on his dime. Not yours.

He dosnt want anymore than whats owed to him perfectly legit by your TOS.

Now like you said earlier, at least this will show programs about this issue. Well that does not exclude you and yours. Just because you found it on your program and didnt hear about it does not give you the right to make riules up based on said issue.

You didnt foresee this beforehand. Its not fraud, its not theft. Pay him his fucking money and move on.

It is on you DirtyD.

Chalk it up to YOU learning a lesson. You DO owe him this cash. Its a minor amount. You may want to scream principle... but you are wrong... especially since you let him keep pushing the traffic and benefitting off of it 3 months before telling him what you thought about it.

If anyone heres is fraudlent at all, its you.

Now please, Save some face and do what is right.

Don't let this become another curious cash thread. Pay him and it will go away

If that is the case, than why did surfers click on Shoehorn's link and join and not click on the site itself?

Unfortunately it appears its heading in that direction, this thread has already cost him far more than $350. I'm more alarmed that someone running a program in 2009 is just now becoming aware of 2002 marketing techniques.

This is a touchy subject as its mostly up to the individual program to decide if they want to blacklist affiliates who buy traffic on their own site names. Generally though, it should be in your terms of service if you don't want this. Don't forget this affiliate did bear a cost to buying those hits and sending them to your site.

If I could suggest a middle ground compromise:
Update your ToS to not allow this type of bidding on any PPC search engine for exact spellings of your domains and pay the affiliate at the very least his cost to acquire the traffic upon showing you an invoice from Google.

WG

:2 cents:

dude YOU are the only cheater here, and a bad businessman as well. You already ruined your rep and will lose a ton more than 300.00 bucxks over a mistake on your own part. What an idiot.:2 cents::2 cents:

None of this matters.

It wasn't in your TOS and the man paid to bring you the traffic.

He deserves to be paid.

plenty of ego's bigger than bank accounts in 2009. funny how that happens in a time when every sale counts.

its not a touchy subject.. in mainstream most affiliate companies have this clearly written in their terms.. you may not bid on certain terms on ppc..

the compromise is to re write his tos and pay the guy his money..

any other offer is one made of shit.... bull shit.... :2 cents:

Another program went to shitter...Such a shame.

In mainstream, its always defined in their ToS, but in adult, its not so common. And I agree, the affiliate should be paid and ToS updated to reflect the change.
WG

Here is a quote from an email from Shoehorn to me lying about the keywords purchased:

You want a list of the keywords I was bidding on? None of them was the actual domain. "Crockwhore confessions" is different from "crackwhoreconfessions.com".

Are you seriously not going to pay me?

I used to think you were a pretty cool guy, but not after this.

Let me know if you're going to pay me or if I need to make a public spectacle out of this.

---

The email contains both a lie and a threat.

Wow this is just stupid as hell! Pay the man, you're in the wrong! Put down the pipe and just pay him!

right on...

We have paid affiliates for valid SEO and SEM forever.

Anyone that supports this lame attempt at marketing and lying about traffic sources should seek another program for sure.

You are a sleazy mother fucker.

Pay the man and then Change your TOS

I say avoid this jerk at all costs. Other honest programs want your traffic.

No blacklisting, instead we tryed to work with him.
Tried to find sales that occured from any other method.
I offered $100 PPS for 30 days to reward Shoehorn for sending some VALID SEM sales.

VALID SEM = Anything but the exact spelling of the domain name

You have business sense

HowIgotRich=HowIrobbedYou

Well you are the one that did not disclose not accpeting such traffic beforehand. in fact you DID accept it for awhile, then whhen you became aware of the tactics, you frowned upon it, yet still accepted the benefit without telling your affiliate that you didnt like his tactics. he has agreed to go elsewhere... but he wants his compensation for YOUR benefit!

Dont accept this method anymore, but you DO owe him money. Pay it!

Update your TOS and pay the man. Ain't like you owe him thousands of dollars. Pay him his $350 and move on. It's the right thing to do.

Damn D some pretty negative marketing in this thread.

Its been said a few times before, pay the guy, change the TOS and hope this flies over really fast.

this is what happens when you hire curious toy boy to consult on affiliate management.

You have lied as well. By not paying for something that you did not disclose that you do not accept. In fact, you did accept it up until you did some research.

He did not break your rules.

You not paying him is way more than a threat.

sooooooo... Invalid rebuttal...

That guy works for D? Wow, the plot thickens

this rule you are now imploring upon your progra, was no where to be seen before, not fine print, no tos... nothing...

Ill bet a few bucks you hadnt even considered this a shady tactic or a tactic at all up until this incident.

If it had come up, im sure youd have it in your TOS :thumbsup

This is Bullshit that dosnt need to be thrown around in this thread.

it's an obvious joke.

yea yea...

Its not funny.

Tell some more jokes... Ill laugh if theyre funny.

This is like watching the titanic hit an iceberg, then deny it, and sink taking down all of the passengers.

I can hear the links being deleted and the PPC campaigns being shut down right now.

HowIrobbedYou wake up and smell the coffee as no webmaster with half a brain will stick by you. No one wants to be on a sinking ship. We have all seen this happen before.