LCN / LiveCam Network / 2Much.net ***WARNING***

PornSiteNEWBIE:

You really need to start watching what you say here because you are only digging yourself deeper into your own hole.

Sorry to disapoint you Leon, but you are wrong again (or maybe you are just lying?)

ALL of the data regarding ALL of your customers and Visitors has always been available to you via the LiveCamNetwork Administrator program. Once again, here is a screenshot for proof:





Every Sale is also accompanied by a transaction number from CCBill:



And as everyone here knows, all you had to do was to log in to your CCBill account and look up any purchase that you thought was questionable.


And, just to drive the point home a little further, here is a screen shot of the fraud monitor:



As you can see it watches for all kinds of parameters (including another dozen not listed here) and flags (makes RED) any purchases that are suspecious (for example, a Customer NEVER spends money on the very first visit to a website. Anything that is RED is considered "suspecious" by our system. You think you know credit card billing? I challenge you to tell me anything I do not know. All you did to me during our last conversation is complain about all the Fraud you had Leon. I am sorry you got ripped off by a credit card scammer but you are flat-out wrong to blame us for it.



Good for you - you have a domain that has type in traffic. Your traffic still did not convert very well, and you still had alot of fraud. CCBill would have gladly blocked any country you wish I'm sure. Did you even once call them? You also could have asked us how to block IP Address ranges but you didn't.


No, you are wrong. You are forgetting the investment I have in my business. I am not "Making" $6000. I am getting a return on my investment. Of course I also have to pay my programmers, my rent, my bandwidth, my servers, my OS licenses, my advertising, my SELF....



And for this we also give you free bandwidth, Free unlimited technical support, Free Software upgrades, free fixes for any HTML errors that you make breaking your template (which we had to fix for you on several occaisions). I apologize if you did not appreciate the deal you were getting.


Leon, by letting you use our sub account, we take a RISK. We are also offering you a service which for whatever reason, you were not able to obtain on your own. You also got to take advantage of lower cost-per-transaction rates. All for $35.00 per month. 100% Profit? No way. Not even close.

Are you sure you're a successful business person?

Are you serious? Leon, Every template is an ugly template. A template is a basic, bare bones, black and white unformatted piece of basic HTML that a web design starts with to build on. He or she ads his own logos, his own graphics and colors to customize the template to look the way they want.

Really? We sub contract to Michael P for website design and he does a fanstic job for us in just under 8 hours a pop to do all 20 pages included in LiveCamNetwork. While the variables are a little tricky (I wish we were using PHP but we're not), it is still old fashion HTML and CSS. AND, we provide lots of online documentation describing each variable and how it is used, AND, we provide free support any time any web designer has a question.

You paid $4000 to a web designer? Sorry Leon, but THAT is where you got ripped off. Not by us.


Not true. It takes us 2-3 days to complete an installation. CCBill approves the billing in 1-2 days after that. If we do the custom design for you it takes us about 8 hours. I'm sorry if your designer took 3 weeks to do your work for you, but you should not blame us for his poor skills.

Leon. What you fail to understand again and again, is that MBASE is completely OPTIONAL. Each website can choose which chat models to Sell to Mbase and to be made available to which website. Each webmaster can turn this on and off at will, or set any prices they like. If you had no chat models on your site it is because you had not enabled them, or had not paid enough to other webmasters for them, or they had not shared them with the network. You cannot DEMAND that other sites and studios share their streams with you.


Again PornSiteNewbie, I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with our software, but please stop blaming us. Your post has made it very clear to me that you did not even explore all of the reports that our software offered, and did not spend even a tenth the amount of time your partner, Janet, used it. You really need to stop blaming us and take a closer look at how you do things.

Good luck with your new provider.

Yes, but that's all after the sale. I am talking about tracking traffic in real time and analyzing it before it gets to the checkout page. By the time it's on the report, it's usually too late. We were calling every sale manually after you mentioned the chargebacks. My fraud filtering was my employee calling the customers lol! Remeber, I didn't leave because of the fraud, I left because your system only favored one person, you, and I had no chance at all. We had the fraud well under control, and you yourself configured our CCBIll account before I left, so I was not on your sub account at the time I moved the DNS, I was on my own CCBill account. That's one thing you conveniently omitted.


Really? Look on my last statement, you charged me $85 for fixing the template. The only time you fixed it free is during the "upgrade" which resulted in my site being down over a week. What a deal!

Strange, the template I got from my current provider looks great, and they didn't charge me a penny to set it up.

LOL, yes can you believe it. It took him 3 weeks to set up your templates, and this guy is a real pro too! Yes you do the design so fast because you have done it so many times. Trust me, I didn't believe my designer that he spent all that time on it, but when I saw your templates, I could see how he would.

Oh I understand this quite well. If you remember, the day I was considering buying your license, we spoke on the phone, and you told me that MBase had enough models on to support a brand new site to give me enough time to recruit my own. This simply was not true, there were never enough models on MBase to sustain any site. Had you told me this on day 1, I would have never bought your license to begin with, and we wouldn't be having this convo.

Really I am trying to stop posting here. Let's just leave it at this, and say no more. Let everyone else make their own conclusions. I think we both said enough to make our cases. Good luck to you too Mark.

PornSiteReview:

We do not offer this kind of tracking service nor did we ever say that we did. There are plenty of good traffic anaylizing software out there that you could have chosen from, including plenty of free ones.


No Leon, you didn't.

I am done trying to help you. This thread has taken up to too much of my time already.

It was good advertising for you none the less and in the process you got rid of a headache client. Anyone with an ouce of brains can look at both sides and come to a conclusion of who is right and who is wrong here.

Sounds like he is happy with his new white label and something he should have probably done in the first place.

So ............
Here is my Experience with Mark and 2much.
We bought three licences from them.
They built one site and made all the changes we needed within three days.
Site is up and looks great.
We took the other two templates and had our in house people do the design work, pretty simple to do and Greg and Mark were there if needed.
One of our designer/ programmers had never seen the templates before and still had the site completed in about ten hours the second in six.
Three sites fully developed, our people trained and a turn around of about 21 days.
To be honest it could have been done in seven days if we did not have so many other projects on the go.
The bizz is profitable, easy to run and I could not be happier with the product or service.
Take it for whats its worth as I have only been playing this game since 2000.
So if you are looking for a new cam site to promote come see us, we also have 30 other great sites (Shameless plug sorry)

Hey JimmyDean. From the history of your posts, it seems that you and Mark are very good friends. Anyway, here's a shameless plug for your camsite on Mark's network:

cams.camsdaddy.com/cgi-bin/customer/vibe_custmain.cgi

I see one model online. Must be very profitable for you. I see no search function, no categories of models, no pagination, etc.. Yes, I know you wish you had all those things, but unfortunately Mark's system doesn't let you have them. I know, been there done that. Trust me, the white label solution makes a lot more money even for a newbie like me.

My cam partner as chosen LCN 2much.net for us to work with and I am 110% especially after Mark's response that our business will grow and run smoothly.

Newbie, you defintely got ripped off. Anyone asking for that kind of money up front should have been a big red flag. It really should'nt be a surprise they don't want to pay when you leave them. They'll probably be operating under a different name soon. You have yourself to blame for lack of research and references.

Did you even read the thread?

yeah I did, maybe you should give them a try then.

did he read the thread? he has been registered here for 7 years and this is the contribution he finally has to make " if anyone askes for that much money upfront it has to be a scam" lol My money is on that the orginal poster found an old name that he made but never used and is making a few post in support of his view since no one else agrees with him.

Will, are you sure you're not sharing the loot with this guy? I don't post much but this caught my eye because I was almost taken by a similar scam a while back. I guess the best way to settle this is to see some success stories from people who used his service and actually made money.

There are no success stories, because noone makes money with Mark except Mark. His "customers" get taken for a long and expensive ride until they realize they've been had!

Here is one of the claims from the top of 2much.net home page:

- "Network with other sites to buy, sell or trade live content. Populate your own site with live chat broadcasters instantly!"

The truth is, there are no real sites on their network to buy from, and in the past year there have never been more than 5 models online to "Populate your own site with live chat broadcasters instantly". This claim is a lie designed to con unsuspecting webmasters into forking over big fees. This was the primary reason I bought their license to begin with, and Mark doesn't deny reassuring me this was the case by phone before I signed up! Most of the time his system had no models to share with my site, except an occasional handful.

Since Mark said he doesn't want to help me any more can anyone here please tell me how I can launch a successful cam site with no models online? Maybe you know, Will, since you have 10 years experience in the webcam biz?

Let me guess, it's all my fault and I should've known better! I should've known that using Mark's models was totally optional even though one of his company's top 3 claims is having models online to get started. I should've known he would change to a much worse video system than the one I purchased. I should've known not to use real email addresses of models so he wouldn't try to steal them. I should've known it takes 4 months to get paid and he sends rubber checks... I just didn't understand Mark's system enough, that's my problem. What a joke!!!

Yes you should have known, because it was very easy for you to confirm these things Mark was saying. You didn't have to take their word for it, all you had to do was simply ask " hey can I see some of your client's sites that are using your software". Then you could see the quality and how many girls were online, etc... Talk to their clients see if they are happy before you spend money.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!!! Did they have a ton of girls online before you spent the $6,000 and then as soon as you did all of the girls disapreared ???

If you did your homework before you spent the money and checked out some of their sites that were live and saw how many girls were online you would have known what you were getting yourself into.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK... you should check things out and make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

yes, i do think it was your fault and you are wrong here, me and everyone else except for that guy who has 4 posts lol.

Hello Everyone,

First, thank you for all of the support.

PornSiteNewbie: Here is the last thing I will have to say to you.

We have been in business for a very long time. We run our own studio here in Montreal Canada, and have been featured in numerous publications and TV shows.

I was disapointed with the SOFTWARE that was offered by other companies way back in the day. We decided to write our own SOFTWARE availabe to anyone who wanted to purchase it. We called it LiveCamNetwork Version 1.0, 1.2, 1.3, and now, 3.0.

As we state in our FAQ located at http://www.2much.net/faq.php, LiveCamNetwork is a TOOL, NOT AND BUSINESS MODEL.

We help all of our customers to make LiveCamNetwork with any questions they may have. If you choose to ignore our advice, If you choose to ignore all of our support, if you refuse to recognize FRAUD and other problems that we warn you about, it is your own problem. You should not blame anyone else but yourself.

You FAILED to run your own business properly. You FAILED to recognize your own customers issues and your own performer issues. You DISMISSED your site's huge amoutn of chargebacks and EXPECTED to be paid on those chargebacks etc DESPITE polcies by every 3rd party billing company, and ASSUMED that "this" is how online business works. Your BROKE our contract and IGNORED our Terms of Service Agreement. You claim to have been in the only business for many years? Everyone reading this thread knows 100 times more than you do. Either you are lying or you are in total, complete denial.

Are we a mega success? No.
Are we pretending to be a huge coporation? No.
Do we guarantee that our solution will make you you $1M per minute? Per year? No.

All we do today, and all we have every done, is to run our own little chat studio since 2000, with our own girls, in the best way that we know how, using our software. We have attended trade shows, met with hundreds of other adult site owners, LEARNED from people like CCBill, asked advice from everyone we have ever met, attended sminars, (hosted some), etc etc.

You, Leon, have done NONE of this. You have dismissed every piece of advice we ever gave you and are doing so again in this thread. You have trashed us on GFY without knowing anything about us. You instead have passed the responsibility of your business to your collegue Janet, and now that it has failed, have chosen to slam us, a SOFTWARE PROVIDER, for the Ultimate failure of your BUSINESS. If you blame the failure of your business on one piece of software then you are doing your business a complete and utterr disservice and you do not even deserve to run your own business.

In my opinion, you should fire yourself immediately, and let Janet run things. I guarantee you she will do a much better job than you ever could.

Mark. You can run your studio any way you like, and be in business however many years you like, but you can't go around making false claims like above that you know you can't deliver on. Especially when you charge the exorbitant fees that you do that noone else does in this business. You sold me more than software, Mark, you sold me a "complete" solution, the main part of which for me was models I could use on my site like you claim. I got none of that, and the only advice I ever got from you about the fraud was to call each customer after each sale was made, which my employees did. There was absolutely nothing more I could do, as my hands were tied. What other advice have you given me? None!

Name one successful camsite that is your current client paying what I was who did listen to your great advice, and is making money. Just one, that's all I ask. Remember, I am not here to win or lose (I already lost enough), just to save other people from wasting their time and money. I am not trashing you, Mark, I am only telling the truth about what I got for my money. If that sounds like trash to you, then perhaps you should re-evaluate how you do business.

PornsiteNEWBIE:

Please re-read what I just said. We run our own studio the way WE want to run it. You can run your own studio and business the way YOU want to run it. We offer the software to let you:

A) Stream your OWN content (And bill for it)
B) Stream other content (And bill for it)
C) Stream your own content to other sites (and Bill for it).

We charge you for our SOFTWARE and give you the Services and Support for FREE. You made dozens of mistakes and ignored all of our advice. Do not blame us for your own shortcomings.

If you want to see how a business succeeds running our software, go to LiveCamNetwork.com. As I told you from the very beginning, this is our demo site. We hire our own chat models by advertising in the local news. We buy advertising from various providers, and we pay attention to our own business. AND, LEON, We SHARE everything that we learn WITH YOU, FOR FREE.

I use them last year and was a waste of money, he still sends me bills. I ask them to stop many times. I had to contact cbill cause they triple billed me. I can show the emails

Mark your site dont make other people money, but you. You charge 125 plus people to use the software another fee and some other fee for some more bull shit, so at the end , the people that use your hosting and software dont make shit

You just be rockin it this Friday night

Gentlemen...








Nuff said, I hope?

Have you pay everyone the royalties they deserve for all of the videos you have on your tube site? Maybe you should first pay our bill, then pay all the owners of those videos that you are stealing before you point fingers. People who live in glass houses....

Dude you stole from me and others. You over billed me. You fuck head and still a year later sending me a invoice. I just took it as a lost and moved on. Now should spread the truth about your backyard cam site. You have charge bull shit charges. Give me my money back and I will pay Snoop Dogg is royality

What ever you owe snoop dog and the other's who videos you are using on your tube site illegaly is your business, not ours.

If you are still receiving bills from us then it is because you have not paid us for our services either.

If you are receiving these bills in error then please call our accounting department on Monday and ask for Tracy. Please be ready to provide proof of payment and she will gladly take care of this for you.

Move your site using a free white label solution for your cam site.
Why to pay for a sulotion if you can to ahve it free?!

PS: Regarding your LCN issues with chargebacks, you never can to control its.

Good luck!

I cancel manytimes, now you guys say I owe like 2500 bucks. I did everything proper, while you guys triple billed me. You run a raggy company. Send me my money back so I can pay Ice cube is royalites and the crips and pirus

I'd pay him, not sure if there are any Crips in Montreal, but Will they defintely are in N.O.

Was reading through this thread and came across this line above. So of course I was intrigued to check out your site site, to see what a successful webcam operation looks like. But after looking, I'm seriously wondering:

How does a webcam business succeed with 0 chat hosts online right now?
How many hosts do you have on during your peak times?

Is this the pool of chat hosts that are available when some one uses your service?

See, Mark, like I said, what goes around comes around. There is no hiding from the truth. The only thing is you never know when you screw someone who has the balls to call you on your scam. Yes, I came on here and swallowed my pride, and showed that I am human like everyone else, and made a mistake. But there will be a cold day in hell that I will take it lying down, and not spread the word about my experience. Come on guys, don't be afraid. It wasn't your fault like you thought that you got burned. You got set up from day one for failure. I want to see every other person Mark has screwed throughout his many successful years in business to post their testimonial here, since this has clearly turned into a sales thread for 2Much.net and Mark. Let's help him get more successful folks!

Let's try it this way:

LiveCamNetwork 3.0, is software. It is a video chat program that is also a pay per minute accounting program.

When you bring customers to your site and bring in chat girls for those customers to talk to, it will account for every second that is spent, and produce reports. This is what LiveCamNetwork does.

You should not blame LiveCamNetwork if you do not like what it reports. It told you that you had bad quality traffic. It told you that you had fraud. It told you that your girls were not conerting your visitors into paying customers.

For example: PornSiteNewbie, You had 121 Chat Models sign up to chat on your website since January 2009. Out of those girls very few of these girls ever logged, and the ones who did just sat there and ignored people. You had 1 chat model who earned alot of money for you, but the rest did very badly.





In addition, that 1 chat model who did so well for you did so because of the mbase traffic that we sent to you, and did not convert your own traffic at all. She converted our traffic because we buy very targeted traffic, and have alot of loyal customers which took some time to build. You had neither of these.

You can keep saying that I am lying, but I am the only one posting screenshots here. Call me a liar all you want but I can continue to post these reports and screenshots if you want me to.

Hi Dav,

We never claim to be a huge successful cam operation. We do 4 things:

1. We wrote LiveCamNetwork, the software.
2. We use the software ourselves to run our own studio here in Montreal. We have about 10 chat models only.
3. We show others what we do and how we make money, if asked. People can take our advice or leave it.
4. We make the live streams available to other websites if they want them (Mbase), and show them how to share theirs if they want to.

That is really the basics. It's not rocket science at all.

What IS Rocket science to alot of people is obtaining chat models and obtaining good quality traffic. This is the real base of this argument. For traffic, always tell our clients to build affiliate programs, or buy traffic from various comapnies who appear on GFY and others. It is completely up to them what they choose to do with our advice.

Cheers!

Bullshit mark! You make the bold claim above on the front page of your website, and reassure unsuspecting prispects by phone that you have plenty of models to get them started in the business. It's very easy to blame customers for your miserable failure and shady business practices, but what's hard is to deliver a good value to them for their money, and ensure that they succeed along with you.

As for succeeding like you, if you grossing $300,000 or so is running a successful cam operation, you're living in lala land! Out of that money, you have to deduct what you pay models, advertising, salaries, studio rental, utilities, bandwidth, servers, software, etc., so what are you really left with in the end? $5,000 per year? LOL!!! The truth is you need to such money out of your "customers" who buy your "license" in order to continue your dog and pony show of trying to apear successful. How can you claim to be giving advice to others, when it's clear you yourself have no clue how to run a successful camsite with more than 1 model working around the clock?

I am still waiting for the success stories, Mark. I bet there isn't a single successful site who uses your software and system! Come on, prove me wrong!

I better stop posting, some fake nick from GFY land is going to send the Crips over to see me

Good morning, PornSiteNewbie:

Not true, PornSiteNewbie.

The front page of our website is here: http://www.2much.net/ and does not make any claim to this whatsoever. The MBASE description page at http://www.2much.net/mbase.php says exactly what mbase does. And don't forget, it is completely optional. Webmasters can turn it on and off, enable or disable any chat model, or change their buy or sell prices at any time.


Our FAQ page located at http://www.2much.net/faq.php also includes this line:

Is LiveCamNetwork a business opportunity, or a business tool?

LiveCamNetwork is first and foremost, a tool. It is a complete streaming solution, and it is also an accounting and management system. It provides everything that you need to help manage a successfull video chat business, or expand your current business into the video chat arena, including a basic website. It does not however, make money by itself. it has nothing to do if you have no customers for it to process, or no Live chat broadcasters to stream.

No PornSiteNewBie that is not true. I tell all of our clients if their intention is to have a website that features college-ageed "Girl-Next-Door" type of chat models, that mbase can work for them because we would gladly provide these feeds to them.

I also point out that you are free to communicate with other chat sites who have models via the FORUM in our administrator area, which you never used.



I am not blaming you for "our" failure. I am simply saying that you are wrong to blame us for your own failure. There is nothing "Shady" about this at all. As you have seen by all of the screen shots I have posted for you so far, all of the reports have always been available to you. I am sorry if you did not take the time to read them but you cannot blame us for this.


Of course there are costs. The point was to show you that $300,000 + in chat minute sales can be generated. The point was to also show that low fraud and chargebacks are also a reality when you pay attention to the numbers. All of the webmasters on GFY check their stats every day, and are forever making changes to their sites, content, etc. Clearly you did not do this.

Again, I'm sorry you failed at your cam business, but if you are going to blame us and be happy with that, then you will not have learned the mistakes you really made.

Maybe I also failed in learning English correctly, as the way I was taught the words above prominently displayed right on the home page of www.2much.net don't happen to mention any of those things. It is a very bold claim that is an outright lie, and it was the #1 reason I bought your expensive license!


Hahaha, you are joking, right? Not only is this a bold face lie, as this is not at all what you told me during our phone conversation over a year ago before I signed up for your service, you also didn't deny that conversation when I mentioned it earlier in this thread. As for being free to communicate with other chat sites who have models in your forum, there aren't any!!! 0, zip, nada!

Mark, I think your biggest problem is you spew out so much bullshit, that you are even starting to believe it yourself! Haven't you read anything you wrote here? You blamed me 100% for everything you did wrong, everything! As for chargebacks, maybe if my site wasn't broken half the time, and you had more than 1 model online, the chargebacks wouldn't have been as high. Did you ever take that into account? We both know that I had the only website on your network with any real traffic. My Alexa score was higher than your own Live Cam Network, the huge success story, so yes, I had more customers then your system was meant for, and they actually expected to get what they paid for.

Would you like to continue? Keep posting your lame BS, and I will keep giving you twice as many reasons why everyone should stay clear away from your scam like the plague! We both know it's only a matter of time before more people who got ripped off by you come forward, so each post you make helps me spread the word.

Also, why can't you come up with a single successful site on your network to share with us how successful you made them? Why?

PornSiteNewbie:

I can post screenshots all day if you want me to. So far all you have demonstrated in this thread is that you ignored all of the reports, ignored warnings of high chargebacks, ignored instructions, etc. I on the other hand have pointed out each of your errors with lots of detail and lots of screenshots, which instead of acknowledging, you have chosen to completely dismiss.

Here is my reply to your latest post :


Go back and read what I said again.



This Screenshot says otherwise.



As you can see, there are 438 threads and 1185 posts. Please notice the thread dedicated to credit card fraud too.

I do not bullshit. I never said we're a mega coproration. My company is made up of myself, MediaGuy, Kedra Alliard, 3 full time programmers, and a couple of sub contractors not including the chat girls. That's it.

Our website does not bullshit. http://www.2much.net describes LiveCamNetwork a TOOL and not a Business or Franchise. Our FAQ says you are not guaranteed to make money. Our Screenshots of your CCBill account tell your real story.



No Leon, I blame you for everything YOU did wrong.



The only time your site was "broken" was when you broke your own HTML code and images would not load. We are not responsible when you break your own site (but we helped you to fix it each time anyway)


It is your own responsibility to hire your own chat models and place them on your site. If you wanted to use girls from Mbase all you had to do was enable them which you rarely did. (And yes before you ask, I have screenshots to prove this too).

Why is it anyone elses responsibility to place models on to your website! As I pointed out to you earlier in this thread, you had 121 chat models working for you. Why didn't you take the time to call any of them and ask them to log in?


Many of your chargebacks were FRAUD, Leon, FRAUD. I already pointed this out to you in one of the first posts. Someone was using stolen credit cards, which Our System Caught For You, and voided! Others were caught from your own partner, Janet. You really need to stop deflecting the truth away from you and start understanding this.


Maybe your Alexa score was higher than LiveCamNetwork.com (I would have to check), but your site still had low sales and high fraud.

Your site had little traffic, and most of it was bad. Your site was not a success as far as your sales go. I already posted a screenshot of your sales. Here it is again to help you remember.




Have a nice weekend.

And you have proven that you are a liar, thief, scam artist, and are not qualified to pass yourself off as any type of expert in running a webcam site, and have no business offering your "solution" for sale to anyone, as it will ensure that whoever buys it will fail. You should stick to running your own studio and cam site, and stop charging unsuspecting webmasters exorbitant fees to make them think they are actually running their own site, when in effect they are working for you and unknowingly promoting your site through the models that they recruited. I am saving the best for last Mark, I haven't yet posted anything about what our models had to deal with and how you tried to make them think they work for you and not us. There are still many things I have left out deliberately, because I know you will keep coming up with your BS screenshots, burrying yourself deeper and deeper in the whole. Trust me, I would quit while you're ahead before I bring the models here to give their story as well as to what goes on in your studio.


Hahahaha! Why don't you show any post from other webmasters trying to trade models and content like you claim on your site. Your forum is only there for one reason, to promote you and your website, nothing more.

I know that, Mark, because a mega corporation would never run their business like you do, and blatantly rip people off. They would be sued and put out of business. Being small doesn't give you the right to make false claims, and take people's money without regard to the consequences of your actions. You, Mark, have cost me a year of my time, over $16,000 of money lost in BS fees, a loss of over 100 models who have tried working on your system only to make no $ and quit, countless customers who came to my website only to find no models on or it not working the way it should. That's no joke, Mark, thanks to you I have to start over again from scratch, and write the past year off as a total loss. This is why I am here, Mark, no other reason.

Not that my personal financial statement tells any real story other than the miserable failure of your service, unless I can't read, GFY rules prohibit posting of personal information. You, Mark, have just violated that rule, and posted my personal financial data for the whole world to see. Once again, Mark, you showed no regard to anyone but your fucking self! I will leave it up to the admin whether or not to delete your post or ban you.

Hahahaha, thank you Mark, for admitting what you denied earlier, that you blame your customers for everything that you promised you'd deliver and didn't.

No, Mark, it was broken many many times, and the time you are referring to is your techs making changes to my site without me knowing anything about it, so when my designer went to update the site, he uploaded the last version that we had. Had you given me the courtesy and notified me that you are making changes on MY website, that would have never happened. BTW, thank you for charging me $85 to fix something you screwed up to begin with.

Hmm, that's not what the front page of your website www.2much.net says, it says that I can populate my website with live models "instantly". That's a long "instant", as I waited a whole year, and still couldn't put on more than 1 or 2 models. As for why I didn't ask my 121 models to work more, that's because they couldn't make any money on your network, Mark. Many worked for 12 hours only to make like $12. LOL, get real!

I was the only one who even recruited models for your network (I am sure we were your biggest if not the only recruiter of models), and 2 of my models were in your top 5 best performers. Even though you considered them top models, the most they ever made on your network was $1000 in a single month. Those same models are now making 3 to 4 times that. Also, Mark, I think that everyone should know that the couple of models you do have work on salary, not money they make from your site. If you ever stopped paying them salary, they would leave as fast as my models who made no money with you.

Still waiting for the success stories, Mark, instead of more screenshots, why don't you do something constructive, and post a URL of a successful cam site on your network. I'd love to see that one! Wouldn't you want your prospective customers to know who they will be sharing their models with?

Last year they did have a lot of models in the evening time over 15, now I dont know if there was there models direct, cause other sites can lend there models out. All I know they triple billed my credit card, when i had cbill cancel the mess. Also they keep sending me a bill after I sent a email to cancel services with them. Its alot now, I dont even open the emails up any more. Its best to use a white label from the big boys

From the opinion of a non vested 3rd party looking at both sides. If the #1 reason you bought his software was so you could tap in to the "other chathost" on the network, then you are an IDIOT for no monitoring his network for at least a couple weeks to see how many girls typically go online on average before buying the license. It sounds like they have the same amount on now as they did before you purchased and you even said so much yourself that you have never seen more than 5 online.

Ok, so chalk it up to not doing your homework and making sure you are buying exactly what you want.... Once you were set up with them and you noticed there wasn't that many chathost online why didn't you ask for a refund right away?

If 2much has 50 girls online when you bought, and your "#1 reason for buying" was because you couldn't get your own chathost so you wanted to use the ones from the network, and then it suddenly dropped to 5 girls online. Then you would have at least a little cause to bitch, but you would still be wrong since they didn't make any guarantees and that feature is optional. But that wasn't the case anyway.

So to sum this up... The #1 reason you bought the software was so you could access their chathost, you never checked before hand to see it was only 5 and not nearly as much as you wanted. After you got set up you then noticed there was never more than 5 on and instead of asking for a refund right away you wait a year to bitch about it after you get asked to get your own merchant account because you have an amazing high charge back rate....

explain how what I said above is wrong. Everything else aside, you think they charge too much, don't like their templates, etc... all that aside, answer my questions if what I said above is correct?

For many people, in many cases this is true. If you can't get your own chathost, the last thing I would do is spend a lot of money to rely on someone else to get them for me with no guarantees, but that falls on the shoulders of the people buying not the company providing. If they guaranteed you there would be "x" amount of chat host on then it would be on them. With out a guarantee then you have to take a chance, if you can't get your own chathost. Can't get your own chat host, and don't use your own processor, why in the hell pay the money for all that stuff when you could be an affiliate with a white label..... <--- not the software owners fault, its 100% on the buyer.

I've been looking at LCN for a few years, they did have quite a few girls on their network back in 2004/2005 but for whatever reason they've gone. I like the software and have been very tempted to purchase it. What's stopped me is that I'd be 100% reliant on 2much continuing to exist, anything could happen, and KAPUT you're screwed. I'm not particularly interested in pluggin into other chat hosts just something LIKE what 2 much offers that I can host on my own server and works with ccbill like a dream ! Is there such an alternative ?

Hi UKVixens,

This is 100% Correct. If we were to close our doors, your site would be gone too. This is a real risk.

There are several alternatives out there for you to choose from and each of them has their own pluses and weaknesses. The best way to shop for anything is to make your own comparison list of features / services / etc between each company.

On MBASE:

The last couple of posts are about our Mbase system and the Number of Models we have in our network. Instead of quoting again and pulling apart everything that PornSiteNewbie said, I'll address it this way.

We do not guarantee which chat hosts are available to any website at any time. There are several reasons for this, including:

- We cannot dictate to any site owner the schedule of his own models.

- Each site owner can share or unshare their own chat models to the network at any time

- Each Site owner can charge anything to the network they like, and change their prices at any time. Each site can also set the "Maximum Purchase Price". So for example, if Website "A" raises their prices for their own chat models higher than Website "B"'s Max Purchase Price, then the chat hosts of website "A" no longer appears as content on Website "B".

The above system is completely fair because it lets each webmaster set all of their own prices.

Not taking sides, but I have read ********** posts in the past...and he has explained many time that he offers a "Live cams solution" and that is what he delivered to you. Like with any business you also need to work to make it a success. I bet getting cam girls to work for you is not easy. So white label's are the way to go in my opinion.

pornsitenewbie is just pissed that the solution did not work for him, and he feels he wasted his time and money.

I have close to 50 white labels, but I am very, very happy making money with niche cams at the moment...see my sig. for more info.

I do think you offer the best solution, the one thing that's a big no no for me is the 100% reliance. I don't put my blogs on Thumblogger for the same reason and I'm not spending $4,000 either. A side issue, are the prices you quote on your site US$ or CN$ ?

Any chance in selling your software instead of just licensing it, or provide the software's source code to the licensee's if you were to ever decide to stop supporting it or go out of business?

I know you addressed the first one, why you license vs selling it. What about some type of hybrid, "sell it" but make them colo a box with you, and it is setup to your requirements, and your techs get paid per hour if they need to go in and clean up someone else's mess.

Hi Will76,

In the past we used to allow our customers to host it on any servers they wanted to, but it was a technical support nightmare, and "passing the buck" when a problem was found to be outside of our scope of control was never appreciated either.

In 2004 we decided that this was simply too expensive and decided to do all of our own hosting for our clients. This saved alot of money and created new revenue for us as well.

We have no plans to change this in the near future, however the topic comes up once in a while. Never say never.

Well, really there were 2 reasons I bought their license, one was being able to have instant models on my site when I first start out without any models. If I didn't have that essential component, how could I ever recruit models? No model wants to work for a site with no models or be a first guinea pig. The second reason was at the time, Mark did have a pretty impressive video chat client, which had video and audio quality that I haven't seen anywhere else. Both of those 2 factors made me buy his license. As for why I didn't question him only having a couple of models live on his site at the time is he told me on the phone, that there are a lot more models on his network, and all I would have to do is enable them for my site. I figured with a great video chat system, I could stand apart from the rest.

Well, look at the current video system at www.livecamnetwork.com if anyone's live at this moment. Click on the Free Chat button for the model that's live. Now tell me if the video chat client looks even remotely close to on any other cam site in terms of video quality, and the layout of the client itself. To me, it looks totally amateur, with no links anywhere on the chat page to go back, see other models live (lol), go back to the previous page, etc.. This was totally not the case when I first bought their license, it used to look better than most cam sites, and I would say the video was much more superior. I was not asked if I wanted this "upgrade" from the previous system, or given any choice whatsoever. I had to take what I was given, no questions asked. When I brought up the fact that I didn't like how the new chat client looked, or that the video was much worse, I was brushed off saying that it's much better (yeah right)! So the main reason I feel cheated is because I got neither of the 2 things that I paid for, and this was the main reason I decided to leave. The other reasons I already mentioned earlier in this thread, so I won't repeat them again. The funny thing is, I would have left as quietly as PastorSinAlot, and just admitted defeat, if Mark didn't try to recruit my models and hold over $10,000 of my money. It would have been that easy for Mark to keep doing business as usual to the next newbie that came along.

Ahhhhhh that's the BS reply that just made pornnewbie's case for him !

Hi again.

Why is this a BS reply? All I am saying that we currently host everything on our own servers, and may in the future, allow customers to host it on theirs. How is this a BS reply?