50 BIATCH!

oh geesh did I hit a touchy feely spot?

We are all guilty of exploiting talent.

Be as nice as you want to the girls, I still know for a fact that if you explained exactly where all their pictures might go before you shoot them, and the fact that they will be immortalized and never again see a penny from their pics splattered all over, you'd have a lot less willing talent. A couple hundred bucks more really isn't the issue.

I have probably heard more girls complain about being taken advantage of then you realize. I'm not trying to pick on you, but its just a part of the industry and how it works. To deny that is silly.

Who shoots the girls at SG, Spooky?

And hey, there's GOTTA be some quality content providers out there that specialize in this type of look, unless I'm sadly mistaken.

Jak

The only thing a good photographer ever takes advantage of in a model is (a) her sense of adventure, (b) her sense of rebelliousness. Never take advantage of naivetee or ignorance. A good photographer will answer all of a model's questions honestly and even answer questions the model didn't think to ask. Whenever, for example, a model thinks nobody will find out about her modeling, I tell her "they always do." You fuck models over, you get a bad rep, and soon all the good guys get tarred with the same brush.

Good point. I suppose I've just worked around Hollywood parts too much. Not a lot of "nice" photographers around here. In porn you just tell them how great they look and get them to smile and show as much as possible. But there is a surplus of talent here too.

I do FULLY explain it and I believe that Unseen does as well.

I explain as fully as I can. For example, I realized after a while that when I say I'm a "content provider" this is industry jargon, so now I tell them "I sell my photos to other websites."

Your point is kind of beside the point, we'd all be paralyzed if we thought about every possible disadvantage to everything we do. All we can do is be honest. The law says an 18 year old girl is old enough to make her own decisions, it disrespects her as a person to treat her like a child when she knows she's legally an adult.

I know sometimes models feel bad about their decisions. Hell, I had a Nehru jacket in my closet once, and maybe I should have majored in business instead of philosophy in college. However, young people don't want other people telling them how to live or what decisions to make and to do otherwise disrespects them. I'm 56 now, but I can still remember that about being young.

Unfortunately, when a decision (that I could have or did warn them about) bites them, frequently then they don't want to take responsibility for the decision THEY made, and all of a sudden it's the nasty photographer who didn't tell them he actually is in business to make money by selling her photos to places where people will see them.

You can explain to some girls till you are blue in the face about where the pictures go, that they will be around the rest of their lives, that actually more copies will be made of them over time and they will proliferate, but not all of the girls want to hear that, and a good deal of the rest don't listen, and as for the rest, they take it all in and make a calculated decision.

To add on to this...

One of the models that I have been working with on a regular basis went home for Thanksgiving. She told her mother what she is doing because I specifically told her that her parents would find out anyway and that she would need to be prepared for that.

I agree with this. They have blog gravity, music scene gravity, and art gravity.

The sleazy wannabe casting agents imported from Idaho thing is maybe to be expected with Playboyesque glamour fanfare going on, but sounds fatal to their particular reputation. Sounds like it's having bad side effects all around.

dont mind cherrylula.. she is drinking again.. its after 12pm now.. time to hit the bottle eh cherry?

lol

just because I feel like posting does not mean I am drunk :P

Why not?

Grab a beer!

I'm not gonna argue anything, not here to bash anyone.

I only speak from experience because I worked with talent for a big porn company in LA a couple years ago. It was really horrible, the way they took advantage of the talent. They all signed release forms, so it didn't really matter.

The people at SG are dipshits. For example, I wanted to swap model information like I do with Aaron (we have different customer lists for the most part, and where they do overlap, apparently our customers don't care that much), but first of all they didn't even REPLY to e-mails for several months, which was rude, and when they finally did, they made the nonsensical observation that they didn't want to work with me because they saw me as "competition." That shows a lot of ignorance about how the industry works. This is an industry where competitors cooperate (send each other exit traffic, join each other's partnership programs, etc.). I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. I think they're only successful because they got into an untapped market early and they got their 15 minutes of fame on a couple TV shows. However, one lesson I think they learned from the TV exposure was about crap traffic.

While the occasional SG girl will have something nice to say about them, most of the ones I've talked to felt the site was oversold, that the back end money from keeping their journals, call-back shoots, etc., just never panned out the way it was painted. Plus, the girls don't like the idea that SG wants them to work exclusively for them. (Most of the girls ignore this, though, and I get calls from SG girls regularly.)

Well I know I once signed a confidentiality agreement myself (as an employee).

Sharing models isn't exactly something everyone feels like doing.

Jak, I do phone interviews with a lot of girls who are of the SG type, but since there is a limited general market for them, I frequently have to turn them away. However, if I thought the photos were more or less "pre-sold," it might be different. Think about exclusive work, or at least pre-ordering non-exclusive sets based on a few less artistic "test" shots so you can see what they look like beforehand. My ICQ is 48201505.

Got some shots I could take a look at? Stuff with a lot of tats, piercings, etc.

Jak

welp, they have some fine bitches, and I need some nice fresh piercing content.. clit eye lip tits whatever.

so hit me up if you can get some of it, cause those girls will sell dirt to an arab.

This is silly. Really silly.

Ive seen girls cry after being begged and harrassed to upgrade from 'girl girl' to 'interracial anal'.

I have seen girls get dropped off on 'Desoto St. in 'Chatsworth, California' and do movies and never return because they had no clue what they were in for. 18 year olds crying calling their friend to come pick them up. After doing their first Jim Holiday flick.

I have personally seen Cherry comfort crying girls for over an hour after doing movies/shoots etc... Girls who come to California and go right to Chatsworth to shoot porn, I am certain you've been there.

Aaron from your posts awhile back mentioning this.... youve been in this industry a little over a year. Cherry dealt with porn talent for 5 + years man, the least she can have is an opinion.

:winkwink:

lol I posted right when you did. :)

I'm just getting some ideas together right now for a new site. It will be a bit before I jump in because of some other projects in the works, but when I do I'd like to know where I can go to for this type of content.

I'll put you into the list. :)

Jak

Wrong. I have been shooting since 1991. I have been selling online full time for a year.

She can have her opinion but that does not make my opinion wrong nor does it give her the right to insult me.

Well, gee, I remember the girl who had SG tatted on her lower tummy 'cause she thought it was so cool, but all she ever got was one $150 photo session out of them along with the exhortation not to work with the competition (other photographers in town). She was pissed that all she got was $150 and then she heard they went on a big expensive European vacation.

I'm as honest as I can be. I don't promise the girl any more shoots than the one we are doing, even though I frequently call good models back for several additional shoots. I have told models on several occasions, "If you have any photographic talent at all, try making content. The real money is behind the camera, not in front of it." How much more honest can I be?

I dont see why you are justifying anything at all. If it were not for you guys.. we would all be begging our girlfriends, wives, sisters, and cousins to pose infront of our polaroids :)

Oh please do you know how many young girls get tattoos and regret it? I still don't really think SG is doing anything wrong.

Any girl with photographic qualities should get her own site, period. And not pose for others. THAT is where the money is.

Good thing they don't so we can all buy content and make money with them.

Anyone who lets one line followed by a winky get them this upset has issues.

Anyone who gets a tattoo of a websites logo is totally fucking retarded and deserve whatever they get.

'oh man I tattooed KISS across my chest before the concert last summer, but i hate them now!!!!!!'

Who cares about girls who put tats on their body and regret it, has nothing to do with it.

oh the irony:Graucho :Graucho

heh

Get your girl and your cousins together!

http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...threadid=93241

:winkwink:

I must have missed that thread.
sick.

haha

Its a nice one.

:smokin

It's a simple thing Fletch. Not many things really piss me off but if you even joke about me treating a model poorly or fucking somebody over then I take offense.

Her remarks were uncalled for.

Hey Grandma's flying in for Xmas... let's set up the shower cam.

You never know what might happen :Graucho

Aaron you're still offended?

Okay I'm sorry, do you want me to fedex you some roses or something? :winkwink:

Atomic Web Works
PMB 216-134
16409 S.E. Division
Portland, OR 97236

Yeah Aaron, expect them soon.

buahahah

:smokin

Its all about the 'or something'.

hehehe

Mail your ass a dead rat.

<img src=http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/ifc/phi_mu_delta/public_html/brothers/pictures/events/storm/dead_rat.jpg border="1">

The market wouldn't support that many "amateur girl" or sites devoted to just one girl.

And I'm not going to lose any sleep over the possibility: the girls are happy to pose, take the money, buy some clothes they don't really need or some E or grass.

Most of them have no talent for putting up a site (most people don't, not just models), so they'd be "victimized" by someone else with the expertise.

They are just learning like the rest of us that the money goes to the people with the talent, the ability, and the seed money.

I can shoot what you need call me on Monday 858-581-1850 ask for Harvey we have grat prices and fast turn around.

I was about to compliment you for being a new content provider who appears to have their shit together with a real email addy and everything. BUT......then I went to you site to look at your content.

Ok, I asked Spooky Suicide about model mistreatment.

Here's what he had to say:

nice :glugglug

Exactly.

Envy.

See ya on HBO.

LOL. Too funny.

Come to Portland and check it out firsthand...Then come back here and tell me that "Spooky" is not full of shit.

Check what out firsthand? Full of shit about what?

Just trying to find a point in what you're saying about SG.

Nevermind me. I am just a broke ass wannabe content guy who is jealous over the sucess of SG. I am sure that Unseen is the same as me. WTF would two losers like us know anyway?

Excuse me while I go back to taking advantage of models.

From what I have read and hear about the site concept I think it is great.

I wish the girls were beating my door down in the same fashion.

:1orglaugh

Thats pretty much what I figured.

Lots of Press! I wish they had a webmaster program :/

http://suicidegirls.com/press/

Damn those Portland area photographers. They're all ruining the business.