Ouch! looks like the ride is over for Lord obama and his out of control spending

[12clicks]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=8990687

"""His signature issue of health care reform was dealt a blow hours before the polls closed when Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid Signaled that Congress may not complete health care legislation this year, missing Obama's deadline and pushing debate into a congressional election year. Democrats in swing-voting states and moderate-to-conservative districts may be less willing to back Obama on issues like health care after Virginia and New Jersey showed there are limits to how much he can protect his rank and file from fallout back home."""

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
protect his rank and file from fallout back home?
here's a novel idea..............do what the people want, then you won't need protection from them.

[CIVMatt]

Remember a day when officials were suppose to represent the people? Good

[AIbenjamink]

[BlackCrayon]

would you honestly say the majority of Americans do not want "universal" health care? I find that highly doubtful. I find it hilarious that so many people would rather keep paying out so much money to rip off insurance corps who will fuck you over in a second if they can find any reason to. Sure, tax funded health care isn't perfect but why support such a fucked up system? The way insurance companies are run has to change if nothing else.

[dyna mo]

right on!

good to see things are getting back on track and going in the right direction!

[12clicks]

would you honestly say the majority of Americans do not want "universal" health care? I find that highly doubtful. I find it hilarious that so many people would rather keep paying out so much money to rip off insurance corps who will fuck you over in a second if they can find any reason to. Sure, tax funded health care isn't perfect but why support such a fucked up system? The way insurance companies are run has to change if nothing else.

When you're going to plunge the country into debt the likes of which we've never imagined, we should be paying for a perfect solution. Sorry, but thats just how those of us actually paying for the country look at it.

[The Demon]

would you honestly say the majority of Americans do not want "universal" health care? I find that highly doubtful. I find it hilarious that so many people would rather keep paying out so much money to rip off insurance corps who will fuck you over in a second if they can find any reason to. Sure, tax funded health care isn't perfect but why support such a fucked up system? The way insurance companies are run has to change if nothing else.

Uh yea, most Americans DONT want to see universal healthcare. Most Americans want to see healthcare reform. Most Americans do NOT want to see the government run something as important as healthcare. Wake up.

[The Demon]

when you're going to plunge the country into debt the likes of which we've never imagined, we should be paying for a perfect solution. Sorry, but thats just how those of us actually paying for the country look at it.

qft........

[gleem]

just come up with a solution to insure those poor uninsured people, would cost a fuck of alot less and be less disruptive than trying to overhaul everything... buncha idiots.

[plsureking]

When you're going to plunge the country into debt the likes of which we've never imagined, we should be paying for a perfect solution. Sorry, but thats just how those of us actually paying for the country look at it.

ya theres a lot of clueless people spouting this line. did u notice how much debt the US racked up from the two wars Bush started? the heathcare plan is just a slice of that. even the cash for clunkers program cost EVERY American $20,000US. 650,000 cars sold and more useless spending of tax money.

a large number of countries have universal healthcare. they arent in debt and their people can go to the hospital when they are hurt or sick. America is just a fucking stupid place.

[BlackCrayon]

Uh yea, most Americans DONT want to see universal healthcare. Most Americans want to see healthcare reform. Most Americans do NOT want to see the government run something as important as healthcare. Wake up.

I can understand that but who is running health care now? Private corps who's business is more to make a profit than to make Joe American healthy? To me, business and health care are two polar opposites.

When you're going to plunge the country into debt the likes of which we've never imagined, we should be paying for a perfect solution. Sorry, but thats just how those of us actually paying for the country look at it.

There will never be a perfect solution. Government funded health care is not perfect, nor is the current system. How can you expect perfection from any kind of system? Man is imperfect. Anything he does will always have some flaws...I agree though, considering the current economic climate it may not be the time to tamper with things. However, something will have to be done sooner or later.

[pornguy]

Remember a day when officials were suppose to represent the people? Good

1776 right??? yeah about then..

[TheDoc]

So these elections are tied to Obama's, supposed spending and the health care issue, because.... he won those states during the election, and now they went GOP?

Wow... that's how the media and the right figure it's a clean sweep?

Like Virginia going Rep was a shock or the political scandal crap of NJ, where the only opposition is Republican?

Geee, wow... this "sweep" clearly was because of Obama's health care and spending.... of course, the sheep fall right in line with the media stupidity.

[12clicks]

ya theres a lot of clueless people spouting this line. did u notice how much debt the US racked up from the two wars Bush started? the heathcare plan is just a slice of that. even the cash for clunkers program cost EVERY American $20,000US. 650,000 cars sold and more useless spending of tax money.

a large number of countries have universal healthcare. they arent in debt and their people can go to the hospital when they are hurt or sick. America is just a fucking stupid place.

please son, the adults a speaking here and you're obviously late for school.
the deficit as Bush left office was slightly under 1 trillion dollars. obama's projected deficit (as stated by obama and the CBO) will be 9 trillion.

the cash for clunkers program (another obama boondogle) cost 3 billion or under $10.00 per American.

also, anyone who gets sick or is hurt in america can walk into any hospital in america and get treatment.

now run along child, this board really doesn't need another idiot with fake facts.

[Snake Doctor]

protect his rank and file from fallout back home?
here's a novel idea..............do what the people want, then you won't need protection from them.

Awesome. So that means they should pass health care reform with a government run public insurance option.
According to the polls 55-65% of the American people are in favor of this. (it varies from poll to poll but it's over 50% in every poll)

Glad to see you finally agree that government should do what the majority of the people want instead of what the corporate lobbyists want.

It's about time you came over to the rational side.

[Matt 26z]

Most Americans do NOT want to see the government run something as important as healthcare.

.... yet ask a conservative what they think of the government's socialized health care system that is the Veterans Administration hospitals. Conservatives love it!

[czarina]

I really hope the health care bill goes thru. THere's a lot of Americans who die every year because they can't afford to visit a doctor.

[12clicks]

So these elections are tied to Obama's, supposed spending and the health care issue, because.... he won those states during the election, and now they went GOP?

Wow... that's how the media and the right figure it's a clean sweep?

Like Virginia going Rep was a shock or the political scandal crap of NJ, where the only opposition is Republican?

Geee, wow... this "sweep" clearly was because of Obama's health care and spending.... of course, the sheep fall right in line with the media stupidity.

I understand what a bitter pill it must be for those of you who want someone else to pay for the things you want but don't let that cloud what you're seeing.

in NJ, as liberal a voting state as there is, the people threw out of office a tax and spend liberal despite overwhelming odds of registered democrats and state workers.

in Virginia, Deeds would not make a "no tax increase" pledge and it cost him the election.

so you see, son, you can call those of us that pay for this government "sheep" all you want. Many of us have just decided that you're already getting enough free ride on our dime.

spin it how you'd like.

[Snake Doctor]

So these elections are tied to Obama's, supposed spending and the health care issue, because.... he won those states during the election, and now they went GOP?

Wow... that's how the media and the right figure it's a clean sweep?

Like Virginia going Rep was a shock or the political scandal crap of NJ, where the only opposition is Republican?

Geee, wow... this "sweep" clearly was because of Obama's health care and spending.... of course, the sheep fall right in line with the media stupidity.

One thing has nothing to do with the other. The media just tries to create buzz. That's how they blow up ratings and sell newspapers and magazines.
If they said "offyear elections, not really important, local issues trump all others in non presidential year elections" then nobody would watch.
If you can somehow make these a referendum on Obama (who BTW has something like a 57% approval rating in these two states) then you can get attention and ratings.

What's really sad is that republisheep like 12dicks actually believe it. I guess they have to believe something like that , because admitting that the Reagan revolution that has wreaked havoc on our country's finances, infrastructure, middle class etc for the past 30 years is finally over and they're about to spend a couple of decades in the wilderness, is just too painful.

[12clicks]

Awesome. So that means they should pass health care reform with a government run public insurance option.
According to the polls 55-65% of the American people are in favor of this. (it varies from poll to poll but it's over 50% in every poll)

Glad to see you finally agree that government should do what the majority of the people want instead of what the corporate lobbyists want.

It's about time you came over to the rational side.

shouldn't you be working on trying to get your join for the day?

people support the public option because they've been tricked into believing the rich will pay for it. now that that fallacy is being exposed, you'll see the numbers change.

[12clicks]

One thing has nothing to do with the other. The media just tries to create buzz. That's how they blow up ratings and sell newspapers and magazines.
If they said "offyear elections, not really important, local issues trump all others in non presidential year elections" then nobody would watch.
If you can somehow make these a referendum on Obama (who BTW has something like a 57% approval rating in these two states) then you can get attention and ratings.

What's really sad is that republisheep like 12dicks actually believe it. I guess they have to believe something like that , because admitting that the Reagan revolution that has wreaked havoc on our country's finances, infrastructure, middle class etc for the past 30 years is finally over and they're about to spend a couple of decades in the wilderness, is just too painful.

its amazing what a southern rube thinks he knows about the state I live in.

you'd think with this vast knowledge base of yours you wouldn't be washing out of adult the way you are.

hmmmm, an idiot in business but a genius in politics. not buying it.

[Snake Doctor]

in NJ, as liberal a voting state as there is, the people threw out of office a tax and spend liberal despite overwhelming odds of registered democrats and state workers.


spin it how you'd like.

Pffft.

Even a hardcore liberal like me has voted for a republican for governor (Mike Foster, Bobby Jindal) when the democrat on the ballot was corrupt (Edwin Edwards, William Jefferson) or incompetent (Kathleen Blanco)

Corzine was a little bit of both from what I hear.

As for spinning, you're the one trying to spin governor's races where a democrat with a 39% approval rating lost and a republican won in a red state into a referendum on Obama.

Get used to being in the minority, you're going to be there for a loooooooong time.

[Snake Doctor]

its amazing what a southern rube thinks he knows about the state I live in.

you'd think with this vast knowledge base of yours you wouldn't be washing out of adult the way you are.

hmmmm, an idiot in business but a genius in politics. not buying it.

Nice deflection.

Shame that you're too stupid to actually argue the issues and events of the day based on logic, reason, facts, and statistics. Instead when you can't win you resort to personal insults and pull out your always handy "my paycheck is bigger than yours therefore I'm right about everything" trump card.

Are you actually trying to win a role as a Dickens character in a major motion picture? If you are, then this whole act of yours makes perfect sense. Otherwise, you're just a fucking asshole.

[TheDoc]

I understand what a bitter pill it must be for those of you who want someone else to pay for the things you want but don't let that cloud what you're seeing.

in NJ, as liberal a voting state as there is, the people threw out of office a tax and spend liberal despite overwhelming odds of registered democrats and state workers.

in Virginia, Deeds would not make a "no tax increase" pledge and it cost him the election.

so you see, son, you can call those of us that pay for this government "sheep" all you want. Many of us have just decided that you're already getting enough free ride on our dime.

spin it how you'd like.

Again, these elections had nothing to do with Obama and his policies..

The guy in NJ had his own f'in problems, which had nothing to do with Obama. He could have ran up against a wall, and the wall would have won.

Virginia going republican is not anything big....8 years of Dem power in a mostly republican state was shocking, it going back to Rep, is very understandable.


What is great is the "facts" that you leave out, like the States didn't have much of an Obama voter turn out. That the exit polls don't really show much of a slip for Obama, and yet those weren't Obama voters.

Your as pathetic as the media, trying to tie any part of these elections to Obama policies. At that, if any of these people voted in the local elections, based on Obama Policies... they should be booted out of America for being stupid.

[12clicks]

Pffft.

Even a hardcore liberal like me has voted for a republican for governor (Mike Foster, Bobby Jindal) when the democrat on the ballot was corrupt (Edwin Edwards, William Jefferson) or incompetent (Kathleen Blanco)

Corzine was a little bit of both from what I hear.

As for spinning, you're the one trying to spin governor's races where a democrat with a 39% approval rating lost and a republican won in a red state into a referendum on Obama.

Get used to being in the minority, you're going to be there for a loooooooong time.

spin spin spin

[12clicks]

Nice deflection.

Shame that you're too stupid to actually argue the issues and events of the day based on logic, reason, facts, and statistics.

a tax and spend liberal was voted out of office in an overwhelmingly democratic/liberal state.

what was your logic, reason, facts, and statistics again?

Are you actually trying to win a role as a Dickens character in a major motion picture? If you are, then this whole act of yours makes perfect sense. Otherwise, you're just a fucking asshole.

I may be an asshole but at least I'm not a chatboard pretender.

[12clicks]

Again, these elections had nothing to do with Obama and his policies..

The guy in NJ had his own f'in problems, which had nothing to do with Obama. He could have ran up against a wall, and the wall would have won.

Virginia going republican is not anything big....8 years of Dem power in a mostly republican state was shocking, it going back to Rep, is very understandable.


What is great is the "facts" that you leave out, like the States didn't have much of an Obama voter turn out. That the exit polls don't really show much of a slip for Obama, and yet those weren't Obama voters.

Your as pathetic as the media, trying to tie any part of these elections to Obama policies. At that, if any of these people voted in the local elections, based on Obama Policies... they should be booted out of America for being stupid.

I'm sure you're right.

[TheDoc]

a tax and spend liberal was voted out of office in an overwhelmingly democratic/liberal state.

what was your logic, reason, facts, and statistics again?

First, your post is about Obama and the NJ race being tied together. I want to make sure everyone can see your twist.

If you have two people running, one is hated by the people - the only other person running isn't hated by the people, by the majority and they happen to be republican.


Do you understand the logic in this, or do I need to explain it to you?

[Snake Doctor]

Last night the republicans lost NY-23, a district they've held since the 19th century.

All last night's election proves is that it's a bad idea to be the incumbent (or from the incumbent party) during a recession.

I love how 12braincells is accusing everyone else of spinning, when that's why he started this thread, so he could spin this into a referendum on Obama.

Hilarious.

[TurboAngel]

What's the difference between the whitehouse and the zoo? One has an African lion and the other has a lyin African.



Cute text I got the other day.

[12clicks]

First, your post is about Obama and the NJ race being tied together. I want to make sure everyone can see your twist.

If you have two people running, one is hated by the people - the only other person running isn't hated by the people, by the majority and they happen to be republican.


Do you understand the logic in this, or do I need to explain it to you?

its a referendum on spending.

most likely over your head. but its the first signs that people are fed up with tax and spend/borrow and spend. All the liberal puppets now have to worry about being voted out of office when they vote for obama's massive spending plans.

Do you understand the logic in this, or do I need to explain it to you?

[12clicks]

Last night the republicans lost NY-23, a district they've held since the 19th century.

All last night's election proves is that it's a bad idea to be the incumbent (or from the incumbent party) during a recession.

I love how 12braincells is accusing everyone else of spinning, when that's why he started this thread, so he could spin this into a referendum on Obama.

Hilarious.

see my post above. you won't understand it but I don't expect you to. you're simply my foil. This thread is for the intelligent.

[Daddy Big Nuts]

Uh yea, most Americans DONT want to see universal healthcare. Most Americans want to see healthcare reform. Most Americans do NOT want to see the government run something as important as healthcare. Wake up.

Quoted for truth

[Libertine]

here's a novel idea..............do what the people want, then you won't need protection from them.

So you're saying UHC should be implemented, then?

SHOULD GOVERNMENT GUARANTEE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR ALL?
64% YES
24% NO

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2528357.shtml

Fifty-seven percent of those polled say they are willing to pay higher taxes in order to provide all Americans with health care coverage.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04...y4923731.shtml

In an extensive ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll, Americans by a 2-1 margin, 62-32 percent, prefer a universal health insurance program over the current employer-based system.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/livin...1020_poll.html

63% Support Affordable Health Care for ?Every Single American?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ingle_american

And even the actual socialist option wins out over the alternative - note that the option mentioned here goes much further than the systems in most other western countries:

Forty-four percent (44%) of American adults say that health care services should be made available for free to all Americans. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 39% disagree and 17% are not sure.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ..._all_americans

Nearly two-thirds said the federal government should guarantee health insurance for all Americans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/01/wa...1cnd-poll.html

CNN found just over half (53 percent) said the country would be better off if Congress were to pass a bill to change the health care system along the lines of what Mr. Obama has proposed, while 44 percent said it would be better if the current system were left in place with no changes.

Fifty percent said the bill should include a public option, and 46 percent said it should not.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.c...als-polls-say/

Americans are more likely today to embrace the idea of the government providing health insurance than they were 30 years ago. 59% say the government should provide national health insurance, including 49% who say such insurance should cover all medical problems.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/SunMo_poll_0209.pdf

Do you favor or oppose, "Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance through an expanded, universal form of Medicare-for all?"
Favor 59%, Oppose 36%, NA/DK 5%

http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/7943.pdf

[TheDoc]

its a referendum on spending.

most likely over your head. but its the first signs that people are fed up with tax and spend/borrow and spend. All the liberal puppets now have to worry about being voted out of office when they vote for obama's massive spending plans.

Do you understand the logic in this, or do I need to explain it to you?

Haha, it's called symbolism... and it would only be a referendum on spending if an unkonwn democrat didn't win NY.


Well, at least I know for a fact now that you listen to the right wing talking points that spew words people repeat, that they don't actually understand.

[Daddy Big Nuts]

For the record...polls are very interesting. Who is polled is even more interesting. Those things can be slanted.....either way...

[Joshua G]

its a little shocking that Christie won Jersey. All those ads about him being fat & george bush apparently didnt work. Thats because Corzine is a piece of shit, & obamas luster couldn't polish that turd.

thing is Obama cant reform alone. with garbage like pelosi/reid running his party, more slippage is inevitable, no matter the merits of his ideas.

[12clicks]

Haha, it's called symbolism... and it would only be a referendum on spending if an unkonwn democrat didn't win NY.

I'm not sure what a local election in some NY back water has to do with two very large states (one of them extremely liberal) having the democratic regimes voted out but I guess when you have your hand out, you'll grab at any straw.

Well, at least I know for a fact now that you listen to the right wing talking points that spew words people repeat, that they don't actually understand.

I love when trash like yourself proclaim things like this as if its fact.


here's the sad part of all this. you actually believe you're going to be better off once the government hands you your healthcare.
I won't be hurt by this.
those of you begging for the government to pay for your heathcare are going to get exactly what you deserve.

[dial]

jesus, 12clicks has to be the most ignorant person that ever argued. the only reason he is good at it on gfy is because the average intelligence is lower than most places. the only thing he is good at is getting a rise out of people, and that is simply because he uses phrases like "run along" and words like "son" to signify he is older and somehow more wiser, but most know the truth about why he says things like that, because he feels inferior and has to cut you down to make himself feel better

[CDSmith]

On a complete side note here an old friend of mine from my high school days just had open heart surgery this past week (valve replacement). She got plenty of pre-surgery care during her relatively short wait. She wasn't an urgent case, wasn't feeling particularly too distressed or anything. She did need to lose some weight and was advised to quit smoking before surgery though which extended her wait a bit. Total wait for her was about 3 months. Of course had her status changed to urgent she'd have been bumped to the top and taken right away.

Well I just got the email from her this morning, her surgery is done and went perfectly with no complications. She's home already and she raved about the care she received from start to finish, and now looks forward to recuperating and having a lot of follow-up care.

Her bill on discharge: $0.00

Ahh you got to love Canada and our evil socialized medicine.


Now back to your regularly scheduled pissing match.

[TheDoc]

I'm not sure what a local election in some NY back water has to do with two very large states (one of them extremely liberal) having the democratic regimes voted out but I guess when you have your hand out, you'll grab at any straw.

Because YOU related it to Obama then twisted to mean the NJ election. The referendum on spending in NJ was even rejected by left groups.

Now, in your real focus, the referendum on spending in relation to Obama is based on symbolism. For it to work, the backwoods NY area ran by Republicans for a long ass time would have had to retain it's power, because it's a republican area.

And that's important because it means the local elections had nothing to do with Obama or Obama's policies, or any spending of our Fed Gov. That you tried to relate it to.

I love when trash like yourself proclaim things like this as if its fact.

You almost quoted the talking point.... so maybe you don't "listen" to them, but you sure as shit repeat the inaccurate spew they do.

here's the sad part of all this. you actually believe you're going to be better off once the government hands you your healthcare.

I won't be hurt by this.

those of you begging for the government to pay for your heathcare are going to get exactly what you deserve.

Ok.... what does health care have to do with any of this?

These elections had nothing to do with health care.

[The Demon]

please son, the adults a speaking here and you're obviously late for school.
the deficit as Bush left office was slightly under 1 trillion dollars. obama's projected deficit (as stated by obama and the CBO) will be 9 trillion.

the cash for clunkers program (another obama boondogle) cost 3 billion or under $10.00 per American.

also, anyone who gets sick or is hurt in america can walk into any hospital in america and get treatment.

now run along child, this board really doesn't need another idiot with fake facts.

Finally, an intelligent person on GFY. Bush's deficit when he left was what, around 5 million dollars? After 10 months in office, Obama is at 1.42 trillion with more than 9 million projected. Cash for clunkers was retarded in the sense of artificial growth while increasing the money supply.

[The Demon]

Awesome. So that means they should pass health care reform with a government run public insurance option.
According to the polls 55-65% of the American people are in favor of this. (it varies from poll to poll but it's over 50% in every poll)

Glad to see you finally agree that government should do what the majority of the people want instead of what the corporate lobbyists want.

It's about time you came over to the rational side.

Actually this isn't true. More than half of the people in almost all polls are in favor of healthcare reform. I've never seen a poll where more than 30% voted for a government run option. Quit making shit up.

[baddog]

would you honestly say the majority of Americans do not want "universal" health care? I find that highly doubtful. I find it hilarious that so many people would rather keep paying out so much money to rip off insurance corps who will fuck you over in a second if they can find any reason to. Sure, tax funded health care isn't perfect but why support such a fucked up system? The way insurance companies are run has to change if nothing else.

ya theres a lot of clueless people spouting this line. did u notice how much debt the US racked up from the two wars Bush started? the heathcare plan is just a slice of that. even the cash for clunkers program cost EVERY American $20,000US. 650,000 cars sold and more useless spending of tax money.

a large number of countries have universal healthcare. they arent in debt and their people can go to the hospital when they are hurt or sick. America is just a fucking stupid place.

.... yet ask a conservative what they think of the government's socialized health care system that is the Veterans Administration hospitals. Conservatives love it!

You guys crack me up.

[TheDoc]

Finally, an intelligent person on GFY. Bush's deficit when he left was what, around 5 million dollars? After 10 months in office, Obama is at 1.42 trillion with more than 9 million projected. Cash for clunkers was retarded in the sense of artificial growth while increasing the money supply.

That is the result of the Bush Bailouts <-- they role over into the next president. It doesn't mean you get to credit the debt to the new president.

[The Demon]

jesus, 12clicks has to be the most ignorant person that ever argued. the only reason he is good at it on gfy is because the average intelligence is lower than most places. the only thing he is good at is getting a rise out of people, and that is simply because he uses phrases like "run along" and words like "son" to signify he is older and somehow more wiser, but most know the truth about why he says things like that, because he feels inferior and has to cut you down to make himself feel better

The average intelligence on this forum is obvious because of posts like this.

[The Demon]

That is the result of the Bush Bailouts <-- they role over into the next president. It doesn't mean you get to credit the debt to the new president.

Ah yes blame it on Bush. I bet it was Bush's fault for the mass stimulus plans as well as a ridiculous increase of the money supply? Gotta love the liberals. It's not Obama's fault if he fails it's Bush's. However, if Obama succeeds, it's because he's awesome!

[TheDoc]

Actually this isn't true. More than half of the people in almost all polls are in favor of healthcare reform. I've never seen a poll where more than 30% voted for a government run option. Quit making shit up.

Damn the right, is stupid... stupid, stupid...

Reform, means to abandon, as well as improve or change. It means, people do not want the health care system the way it is now, and they want to 'change it.'

That's a huge difference than, regulate it which is how the right uses the word, reform.

Reform:
1 a : to put or change into an improved form or condition b : to amend or improve by change of form or removal of faults or abuses
2 : to put an end to (an evil) by enforcing or introducing a better method or course of action
3 : to induce or cause to abandon evil ways <reform a drunkard>
4 a : to subject (hydrocarbons) to cracking b : to produce (as gasoline or gas) by cracking

[12clicks]

Ok.... what does health care have to do with any of this?

These elections had nothing to do with health care.

are you playing dumb because of your desire to get what you want for free will make you do ANYTHING or do you really not understand the ties between a gigantic deficit, a gigantic government program, and the fact that the party pushing for all of this just lost two major offices?

which one is it, playing or a lack of understanding?

[TheDoc]

Ah yes blame it on Bush. I bet it was Bush's fault for the mass stimulus plans as well as a ridiculous increase of the money supply? Gotta love the liberals. It's not Obama's fault if he fails it's Bush's. However, if Obama succeeds, it's because he's awesome!

I'm damn sure not liberal... never voted for a liberal in my life that I can remember.


The mass stimulus plans, were started under Bush. Dumb ass..

It's Bushes fault, he failed and fucked our Country up. It's Obama's fault if he doesn't live up to his promises and pull us out of the shit hole Bush put us in.

However we gave bush a full 8 years to totally fuck us, so I think it's fair we give Obama an actual shot, at doing what he feels is right...

...seeing you fucks, were wrong for the last 8 years.