Cash for clunkers program great success. - GoFuckYourself.com

baddog · 10-29-2009, 06:09 PM

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com..._blg=1,1341914

The U.S. government is calling its Cash for Clunkers program a big success, with nearly 690,000 vehicles sold in July and August. But a report by automotive Web site Edmunds.com says the program actually cost taxpayers $24,000 per car sold.

Only 125,000, or 18%, of the sales were incremental, according to Edmunds.com -- the remaining 82% of sales would have happened regardless of the program.

The $24,000 is the price for the sales of vehicles that were a direct result of the program, Edmunds.com said.

Deej · 10-29-2009, 06:11 PM

Obama HAter!!!

Deej · 10-29-2009, 06:12 PM

Acute Observation... right

mynameisjim · 10-29-2009, 06:21 PM

Yep, auto sales went from negative to positive and it would have happened anyway during a recession and a tight credit market.

Sure.

Edmond's has written two stories using very dubious numbers and statistical methodology to bad mouth the program. I'm not sure what their agenda is but they clearly do not like this program on an editorial level.

After Shock Media · 10-29-2009, 06:24 PM

I was not for the program. I do find those numbers very disturbing and well they feel like BS.

Though I will admit the program by all other reasonable accounts did more than it was planned on doing. BTW, I am judging most of my programs thoughts on what it was before they jacked it as a economic move and not the environmental one it started as.

Sly · 10-29-2009, 06:34 PM

The administration is now attacking Edmunds saying those numbers are deceiving. So who knows.

It's government. It's a given it costs way more than anyone will ever let on.

marketsmart · 10-29-2009, 06:42 PM

i read that people bought cars they couldnt afford because of the program and that the repo rate will be ridiculous in the next 24 months...

mynameisjim · 10-29-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i read that people bought cars they couldnt afford because of the program and that the repo rate will be ridiculous in the next 24 months...

That was also an Edmund's report that got re-reported in a bunch of different places.

I would ask Edmund's why both of their reports contradict each other. One says that people bought cars they couldn't afford because of the program. The other says that people would have bought cars regardless of the program.

Can't have it both ways.

BlackCrayon · 10-29-2009, 07:03 PM

Why did it cost the government 24k per car when they were only paying for 4500 each? They seem to have forgot to mention why..

jMEGA · 10-29-2009, 07:18 PM

You Racist!

After Shock Media · 10-29-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Why did it cost the government 24k per car when they were only paying for 4500 each? They seem to have forgot to mention why..

Because they are saying people would of bought the cars anyways. So for every 4500 they gave up on a car they would of already bought just adds to the costs.

What is their take on the original issue of the plan, you know the environmental one? Ya remember removing X number of cars from the road forever, bumping gas millage over cars people were driving, etc.

Sly · 10-29-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

That was also an Edmund's report that got re-reported in a bunch of different places.

I would ask Edmund's why both of their reports contradict each other. One says that people bought cars they couldn't afford because of the program. The other says that people would have bought cars regardless of the program.

Can't have it both ways.

No, those are two separate things. You may initially intend on spending $15,000 to purchase a new car, then a program comes along and you spend $30,000 to purchase a new car (which you can't afford.)

DaddyHalbucks · 10-29-2009, 07:36 PM

There are some really bad polluters on the road, but like many things, it comes down to cost/ benefit. Is it worth $24k each to get them off the road? I dunno.

theking · 10-29-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

There are some really bad polluters on the road, but like many things, it comes down to cost/ benefit. Is it worth $24k each to get them off the road? I dunno.

125,000 won't make a dent in pollution caused by cars...there are millions of cars on the road.

After Shock Media · 10-29-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

125,000 won't make a dent in pollution caused by cars...there are millions of cars on the road.

Technically it does. Sort of how math works and all.

theking · 10-29-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Technically it does. Sort of how math works and all.

Technically it will not make a measurable dent in pollution caused by cars or the gas that is consumed by cars.

The Demon · 10-29-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com..._blg=1,1341914

The U.S. government is calling its Cash for Clunkers program a big success, with nearly 690,000 vehicles sold in July and August. But a report by automotive Web site Edmunds.com says the program actually cost taxpayers $24,000 per car sold.

Only 125,000, or 18%, of the sales were incremental, according to Edmunds.com -- the remaining 82% of sales would have happened regardless of the program.

The $24,000 is the price for the sales of vehicles that were a direct result of the program, Edmunds.com said.

Most people don't understand the different between real growth and artificial growth. If a consumer buys a car now within the cash for clunkers program, he's not going to buy the car he planned to buy in 2011. These stupid stimulus programs don't do a damn thing. People need to stop blindly listening to Bernanke and Obama's administration. They've failed in virtually every economic aspect they've engaged in since Obama became president.

Wagerboy · 10-29-2009, 08:05 PM

Edmounds makes money based off USED cars, NOT new like the Cash For Clunkers program required.

Trust me, I know

will76 · 10-29-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com..._blg=1,1341914

The U.S. government is calling its Cash for Clunkers program a big success, with nearly 690,000 vehicles sold in July and August. But a report by automotive Web site Edmunds.com says the program actually cost taxpayers $24,000 per car sold.

Only 125,000, or 18%, of the sales were incremental, according to Edmunds.com -- the remaining 82% of sales would have happened regardless of the program.

The $24,000 is the price for the sales of vehicles that were a direct result of the program, Edmunds.com said.

How did it cost tax payers $24,000 for a car when the max credit they were giving was like 3 or 4K ???

will76 · 10-29-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i read that people bought cars they couldnt afford because of the program and that the repo rate will be ridiculous in the next 24 months...

I don't follow the logic, it was just a 3 - 4K credit.

People who buy things that can't afford typically have to finance it. The banks, especially the way they are now are not going to let people finance a lot more t han they can afford. How much income you make and your credit score is factored in.

So its not like, well we could only get financed for a 20K car, but now that there is a 3-4K credit we can go buy a 50K car and finance 46K... Sorry doesn't work that way.

More realistically people should have used the credit to buy what they would have normally been approved for, for 4K less. If they were normally approved to finance 20K they should have bought the 20K car and financed 16K because of the credit, saving them money. But in most cases if they were approved to finance 20K they probably bought a 24K car, used the 4K credit to get them back down to 20K. So they get a little nicer car but have no savings on their monthly note because of the credit.

Pleasurepays · 10-29-2009, 08:22 PM

BREAKING NEWS - In an unprecedented move, a Presidents Administration pats itself on the back for its own efforts, declaring them a success.

baddog · 10-29-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

That was also an Edmund's report that got re-reported in a bunch of different places.

I would ask Edmund's why both of their reports contradict each other. One says that people bought cars they couldn't afford because of the program. The other says that people would have bought cars regardless of the program.

Can't have it both ways.

They did not say everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

How did it cost tax payers $24,000 for a car when the max credit they were giving was like 3 or 4K ???

I guess you did not bother to read the article.

Quote:

The analysts then divided the $3 billion by their 125,000-vehicle number to get an average of $24,000 per vehicle.

marketsmart · 10-29-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

I don't follow the logic, it was just a 3 - 4K credit.

People who buy things that can't afford typically have to finance it. The banks, especially the way they are now are not going to let people finance a lot more t han they can afford. How much income you make and your credit score is factored in.
.

people bought cars.. without the credit, they would have stayed in the cars they were driving.. thats what i read..

US people are dumb and can't seem to pass up a good deal..

same reason why people bought houses with interest only loans knowing they couldnt afford the payments when the mortgages reset...

its the whole credit model in the US... why not buy today and pay tomorrow..

its the "whimpie model from popeye"...

will76 · 10-29-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I guess you did not bother to read the article.

No I didn't. So if they divided the $3 billion by their 125,000-vehicle number to get an average of $24,000 per vehicle. But yet they were only giving people a 3-4K credit. WTF did the rest of the money go???

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

people bought cars.. without the credit, they would have stayed in the cars they were driving.. thats what i read..

US people are dumb and can't seem to pass up a good deal..

same reason why people bought houses with interest only loans knowing they couldnt afford the payments when the mortgages reset...

The housing deal was totally different, you had the govt trying to be PC and make sure EVERYONE can get a new house. You had people getting financed with 0 down without showing any tax returns to prove income. While the people were stupid enough to do it, the govt and greedy mortgage brokers allowed them to do it.

Much much different with car loans. Go try to get a car loan with bad credit and no income, good luck. Especially these days. The people might want a car they can't afford, but in 99% of the cases they not going to be allowed to get it.

marketsmart · 10-29-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

No I didn't. So if they divided the $3 billion by their 125,000-vehicle number to get an average of $24,000 per vehicle. But yet they were only giving people a 3-4K credit. WTF did the rest of the money go???

The housing deal was totally different, you had the govt trying to be PC and make sure EVERYONE can get a new house. You had people getting financed with 0 down without showing any tax returns to prove income. While the people were stupid enough to do it, the govt and greedy mortgage brokers allowed them to do it.

Much much different with car loans. Go try to get a car loan with bad credit and no income, good luck. Especially these days. The people might want a car they can't afford, but in 99% of the cases they not going to be allowed to get it.

you are missing the point... people with good credit make dumb decisions too...

what i read was that people bought cars with payments that they could barely afford...

baddog · 10-29-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

No I didn't. So if they divided the $3 billion by their 125,000-vehicle number to get an average of $24,000 per vehicle. But yet they were only giving people a 3-4K credit. WTF did the rest of the money go???

Probably processing the paperwork.

cykoe6 · 10-29-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

But yet they were only giving people a 3-4K credit. WTF did the rest of the money go???

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Probably processing the paperwork.

The government's specialty is taking a dollar and turning it into 10 cents.

STAROTICA · 02-03-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i read that people bought cars they couldnt afford because of the program and that the repo rate will be ridiculous in the next 24 months...

and that is not generating jobs....HOW????

look at all the new jobs in the repossession sector to come!!!!

moeloubani · 02-03-2010, 11:55 PM

americans shit on again by their government....again

WarChild · 02-04-2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

No I didn't. So if they divided the $3 billion by their 125,000-vehicle number to get an average of $24,000 per vehicle. But yet they were only giving people a 3-4K credit. WTF did the rest of the money go???

It's pretty simple really.

690,000 cars were sold in total. So you divide the 3 Billion by 690,000 cars. It works out to $4347 and change per car sold.

What they are trying to say, is that of those 690,000 sold only 18% of them were sold specifically because of the cash for clunkers program. They somehow claim that the remaining 82% of cars would have been sold even if no program existed. So instead of dividing the $3 Billion spent by 690,000 cars to get ~$4350 per car, they're diving the $3 Billion by 18% of the total 690,000 cars sold or about 124200.

3,000,000,000 / 124200 = $24154 and change or roughly $24,000 cost per car.

10-29-2009, 06:09 PM	#1
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	Cash for clunkers program great success. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com..._blg=1,1341914 The U.S. government is calling its Cash for Clunkers program a big success, with nearly 690,000 vehicles sold in July and August. But a report by automotive Web site Edmunds.com says the program actually cost taxpayers $24,000 per car sold. Only 125,000, or 18%, of the sales were incremental, according to Edmunds.com -- the remaining 82% of sales would have happened regardless of the program. The $24,000 is the price for the sales of vehicles that were a direct result of the program, Edmunds.com said.

10-29-2009, 06:11 PM	#2
Deej I make pixels work Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: I live here... Posts: 24,386	Obama HAter!!! __________________ Deej's Designs n' What Not Hit me up for Design, CSS & Photo Retouching Icq#30096880

10-29-2009, 06:12 PM	#3
Deej I make pixels work Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: I live here... Posts: 24,386	Acute Observation... right __________________ Deej's Designs n' What Not Hit me up for Design, CSS & Photo Retouching Icq#30096880

10-29-2009, 06:21 PM	#4
mynameisjim Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,985	Yep, auto sales went from negative to positive and it would have happened anyway during a recession and a tight credit market. Sure. Edmond's has written two stories using very dubious numbers and statistical methodology to bad mouth the program. I'm not sure what their agenda is but they clearly do not like this program on an editorial level. __________________ jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs Convert

10-29-2009, 06:24 PM	#5
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	I was not for the program. I do find those numbers very disturbing and well they feel like BS. Though I will admit the program by all other reasonable accounts did more than it was planned on doing. BTW, I am judging most of my programs thoughts on what it was before they jacked it as a economic move and not the environmental one it started as. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

10-29-2009, 06:34 PM	#6
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,327	The administration is now attacking Edmunds saying those numbers are deceiving. So who knows. It's government. It's a given it costs way more than anyone will ever let on. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

10-29-2009, 06:42 PM	#7
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	i read that people bought cars they couldnt afford because of the program and that the repo rate will be ridiculous in the next 24 months...

10-29-2009, 07:03 PM	#9
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	Why did it cost the government 24k per car when they were only paying for 4500 each? They seem to have forgot to mention why.. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

10-29-2009, 07:18 PM	#10
jMEGA Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 671	You Racist! __________________ Design \| SEO \| Photo / Video Editing ( ICQ 49354667 )

10-29-2009, 07:36 PM	#13
DaddyHalbucks A freakin' legend! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada USA Posts: 18,975	There are some really bad polluters on the road, but like many things, it comes down to cost/ benefit. Is it worth $24k each to get them off the road? I dunno. __________________ Boner Money

10-29-2009, 08:05 PM	#18
Wagerboy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,290	Edmounds makes money based off USED cars, NOT new like the Cash For Clunkers program required. Trust me, I know __________________ The Main Program That Makes Me Fucking Money!! Teens Getting Pounded

10-29-2009, 08:22 PM	#21
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	BREAKING NEWS - In an unprecedented move, a Presidents Administration pats itself on the back for its own efforts, declaring them a success.

02-03-2010, 11:55 PM	#29
moeloubani Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario Posts: 4,235	americans shit on again by their government....again