Epoch is asking to see two of my models IDs - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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DWB

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#1

Epoch is asking to see two of my models IDs

09-20-2009, 07:53 AM

Unless they are going to give me the IDs of every employee who will view these, as well as sign an agreement that will hold them responsible should something happen to the models due to their employees, it's not gonna happen.

I respect my models privacy and will not jeopardize her safety for some non-government or non-state employee, who probably did not get a full background check, and could just as easily plan on stalking her. No thanks.

Will be moving another site over to CCbill.
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#2

09-20-2009, 07:54 AM

fuck em 2c
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#3

09-20-2009, 07:56 AM

They have asked to see some of our models IDs too. We respect the privacy of our models as well but if they are going to be doing the billing for our sites we figure they have the right to request them. They are our primary billing solution and have been great as long as I have been with Royal Cash

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#4

09-20-2009, 07:58 AM

if they only request two specific models i assume they want to cover their asses because something might look fishy to them.
seems reasonable
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#5

09-20-2009, 08:03 AM

Someone at Epoch must love ladyboys a little too much
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#6

09-20-2009, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Trax

if they only request two specific models i assume they want to cover their asses because something might look fishy to them.
seems reasonable

The content in question has been online for over 2 years.

It's not a matter of "reasonable" it is a matter of, 1) Under what authority? 2) Who can say some schmuck at Epoch isn't trying to stalk them?

While we're at it, why don't I send them to my hosting company, all the other billers, the people who made the CMS and all webmasters who push the site. Hell, I should just post them here.

It's one thing to have the FBI or police asking for this information, but it's a whole other thing to have some tech guy at Epoch asking for it. NOBODY knows what his intentions are and there is nothing to say he is not going to try to track them down. Honestly, who can vouch for the employees there and say that without a question, their intentions are legit? Even if they are, 2257 is not for them, it is for law enforcement.
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#7

09-20-2009, 08:06 AM

i used to be the manager of the fraud dpt. of a very large cam site (im not gonna say the name of the site) and part of my job af looking at the models once in a while without em knowing and i had 2 time the same problem with guys from the cust service of epoch calling to the office to request docs of the cam girls after going deeper and check at the old chat logs of the models with clients i saw one chat log of a guy saying that he works for a company that give him the membership and he can spend with her all the credits that he wanted ... we only had 2 billing companies our internal merchant and epoch

So you guys can do the math

so i say fuck em

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#8

09-20-2009, 08:06 AM

I think they should do that with every single new
site they process to weed out not only underage models but for content theft
and yes as they are a biller (making you money) I totally think they should have the rights to do this .
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DWB

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#9

09-20-2009, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Joe King

Someone at Epoch must love ladyboys a little too much

Heh. Yea, they asked for the phone numbers too and how long their cock really was.

Actually, it's females. Very old content, which strikes me as odd. They approved this content 2 years ago, maybe even longer.
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#10

09-20-2009, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by CHARGER

i used to be the manager of the fraud dpt. of a very large cam site (im not gonna say the name of the site) and part of my job af looking at the models once in a while without em knowing and i had 2 time the same problem with guys from the cust service of epoch calling to the office to request docs of the cam girls after going deeper and check at the old chat logs of the models with clients i saw one chat log of a guy saying that he works for a company that give him the membership and he can spend with her all the credits that he wanted ... we only had 2 billing companies our internal merchant and epoch

So you guys can do the math

so i say fuck em

thats a pretty bold accusation there buddy...
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DWB

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#11

09-20-2009, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by CHARGER

i used to be the manager of the fraud dpt. of a very large cam site (im not gonna say the name of the site) and part of my job af looking at the models once in a while without em knowing and i had 2 time the same problem with guys from the cust service of epoch calling to the office to request docs of the cam girls after going deeper and check at the old chat logs of the models with clients i saw one chat log of a guy saying that he works for a company that give him the membership and he can spend with her all the credits that he wanted ... we only had 2 billing companies our internal merchant and epoch

So you guys can do the math

so i say fuck em

OK, so maybe this is true, maybe it's not, but if it is, this is EXACTLY the sort of shit I'm talking about. Who knows the guy working there who will get this information? And then, will he delete them or can anyone else there see them?

No way, no how.

If they want them, they can do what the police and FBI have to do, visit during normal office hours at the location I list on my 2257 page. However, since they are not the law, they must come there with them. I won't trust it otherwise, even if that means I lose them as a biller.

I protect my models first. That's all there is to it. Without them, I do not have a business.
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#12

09-20-2009, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Heh. Yea, they asked for the phone numbers too and how long their cock really was.

Actually, it's females. Very old content, which strikes me as odd. They approved this content 2 years ago, maybe even longer.

Which department did the request come from? if it was compliance or risk I wouldnt question it myself

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CHARGER

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#13

09-20-2009, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by marketsmart

thats a pretty bold accusation there buddy...

there is a copy of the chat logs and rec of the calls

is not an accusation im just saying ... You guys do the math

But sometimes whe stuff looks like shit , smells like shit , feels like shit ....guess what is shit

and when i say stuff like this is cuz im VERY sure of what im saying

once again you guys do the math

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#14

09-20-2009, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by webgurl

I totally think they should have the rights to do this .

But who supervises them with this information? How can THEY be trusted? So what, some guy at Epoch turns out to be a kook, he stalks one of the girls, rapes her or worse, and if anyone even ties it to him, Epoch just fires him and keeps on trucking.

No fucking way. Give some unknown guy YOUR personal information if you are so comfy with it. You're a sexy gurl, you should not have anything to worry about, right? I mean, they bill for our sites, why would they have freaks working there?
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#15

09-20-2009, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by webgurl

they are a biller (making you money)

They are a PROCESSOR (handling YOUR money).... you are the one that makes the money. Might not want to forget that.

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DWB

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#16

09-20-2009, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by spazlabz

Which department did the request come from? if it was compliance or risk I wouldnt question it myself

spaz

It came from a "Support Specialist." Not from either department you listed.
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DWB

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#17

09-20-2009, 08:22 AM

Hey, if Visa hits me up directly, from their compliance department, and is working with law enforcement, they will get the IDs and documents they request. But just some guy at a 3rd party processing company, no way.
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#18

09-20-2009, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by webgurl

and yes as they are a biller (making you money) I totally think they should have the rights to do this .

Keep in mind that Epoch doesn't make anybody any money. They get paid by site owners to process a credit card. They have no business seeing model documents. I agree with DWB...take them out of the cascade. Let that happen with enough sites and they will soon be hurting financially.

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#19

09-20-2009, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by sharphead

They are a PROCESSOR (handling YOUR money).... you are the one that makes the money. Might not want to forget that.

you won't be making any money period if it wasn't for them (not specific to epoch) but to any 3rd party billing company not everyone is qualified for a merchant account .
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#20

09-20-2009, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

It came from a "Support Specialist." Not from either department you listed.

Well that is different , I assume that you would get the request from the
risk / compliance department .
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#21

09-20-2009, 08:31 AM

What does your contract with epoch state? If you want to process with them, play by their rules.

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#22

09-20-2009, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by webgurl

and yes as they are a biller (making you money) I totally think they should have the rights to do this .

.. so you would comply if a hosting company asked the same ...

After all , they are also (making you money) ...

In Canada, if I would comply, I would be going to jail ... or at least be prosecuted for violation of privacy law ...

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#23

09-20-2009, 08:34 AM

Stand strong DWB!
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#24

09-20-2009, 08:35 AM

I'm curious what the opinion of all would be if Epoch or CCBill got caught processing a site featuring a 15-year-old girl...

The witchhunt would be out in fury.

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#25

09-20-2009, 08:38 AM

they are obligated to take whatever actions they deem appropriate/necessary, to ensure that the content is legal.

If they want to, they can ask to see ID of every model.

BUT... Its your choise if you want to show them.
I'm sure you are able to figure out what happens if you dont.

Last edited by Machete_; 09-20-2009, 08:39 AM.
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#26

09-20-2009, 08:47 AM

why don't you ask your rep at Epoch what's this about? and if it's a legit reason simply block out everything in the ID but the birthday.

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#27

09-20-2009, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by directfiesta

.. so you would comply if a hosting company asked the same ...

After all , they are also (making you money) ...

In Canada, if I would comply, I would be going to jail ... or at least be prosecuted for violation of privacy law ...

okay "making" is the wrong word , not a hosting company it is not their business to request such documents , but billers YES , why because you use them to make profits . Are you actually processing creditcards ?
If the risk dept wants to verify what they are processing , it's totally their discretion to do so , and this is the case ! They are not doing anything wrong IMO .....

Last edited by webgurl; 09-20-2009, 08:48 AM.
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#28

09-20-2009, 08:50 AM

Seems fishy to me.

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#29

09-20-2009, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by directfiesta

.. so you would comply if a hosting company asked the same ...

After all , they are also (making you money) ...

In Canada, if I would comply, I would be going to jail ... or at least be prosecuted for violation of privacy law ...

Hosting companies walk a very fine line. Hosting companies do exercise a minimal amount of content editing. They can tell you what you can and cannot have on their servers... the servers are owned and operated by the hosting company. If a hosting company knowingly lets a client use their server for illegal purposes, they too can be held responsible. In fact there was a data center raid just a couple months back. Of course Canadian and American laws are different, but I'm having a very difficult time believing that if the Canadian authorities found illegal content or illegal activities on a Canadian-based web host that the web host would not suffer any repercussions at all. Bare minimum, hardware would be confiscated.

Illegal activity is a domino effect. Anyone surrounding it can fall. It isn't unreasonable for a business to take precautions to make sure that they are not involved with a "criminal enterprise."

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#30

09-20-2009, 09:04 AM

It seems reasonable if they're just verifying their ages. By the same token they should have no problem if you blanked out the IDS except their name, photo and date of birth.
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#31

09-20-2009, 09:06 AM

Is it even legal for you to share that information with them? In Europe I'm pretty sure you can get into trouble if you share any private employee information with third parties (unless the models specifically agreed to such)
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#32

09-20-2009, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by webgurl

okay "making" is the wrong word , not a hosting company it is not their business to request such documents , but billers YES , why because you use them to make profits . Are you actually processing creditcards ?
If the risk dept wants to verify what they are processing , it's totally their discretion to do so , and this is the case ! They are not doing anything wrong IMO .....

very confused answer...

Anybody, including the janitor, can request those documents ( just call up ) , but they should only be supplied to Legal Authorities in position to enforce those laws... ( that excludes the FTA , Health department, Park department ... ) .

As for your " profit angle " , really not pertinent .... Now, Epoch or any other biller, or hosting companies, or design companies can refuse to provide you service ... it is up to them.

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#33

09-20-2009, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Robbie

Let that happen with enough sites and they will soon be hurting financially.

Yah in no time a company the size of Epoch will be hurting financially because of ID verifications .
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#34

09-20-2009, 09:13 AM

DWB - There is no one in this business that will argue with you about your completely justified intentions to protect your models. You are absolutely right to do everything within your power to ensure their safety and protect their privacy. On this point we completely agree.

What you must also consider is that as an IPSP working this space, we are obligated to do everything we can to ensure that the sites we process for produce content which is legal and abides by association rules. We are your connection to the banks and card associations who will not contact you directly if a question were to arise.

Epoch passes an annual audit to ensure the security of our services. All employees who work in our risk-management and legal departments are all qualified, professional individuals who've been with us for at least five years. I invite you to come down to Epoch's offices and meet each of them and decide for yourself if you believe anyone has any mislead intentions. I'll even take you to lunch.

I can assure you that any identification request is legitimate regardless of previous approval or length of time the content has been online. We don't ask for 2257 documentation for fun, we do it because we are obligated to do so for the protection of everyone involved.

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#35

09-20-2009, 09:13 AM

if i was epoch i would can your ass

and if i was ccbill and read this thread, i would do the same

how do you know the request did not come right from visa and they used a support guy to relay the message? hasnt epoch done some downsizing over the past year?

you know how much time these billers are going to give a guy who shoots porn in thailand and refuses to show that the content they are billing for isnt cp?
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#36

09-20-2009, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by WiredGuy

It seems reasonable if they're just verifying their ages. By the same token they should have no problem if you blanked out the IDS except their name, photo and date of birth.
WG

Agreed. Kinda my thoughts.

If compliance is asking you for docs, there is probably a reason. Like one of DWB's fan club members reporting him (false accusations) to cause grief or drama.

I am guessing that something like this is covered in their T.O.S. which you agreed to when you signed up with them for processing. Especially in the section talking about compliance, and the dealing with matters of compliance. So if they wanted to freeze, or close your account for refusal to hand over the docs. They may be able do it.

If you are that adamant about it, just move to someone else. It does not solve the problem long term if someone keeps doing it (if that is actually the source of the asking for docs).

Keep in mind I am just spit balling what 'may' be the catalyst to being asked for this. I do not, nor have every used EPOCH, and I am in no way inferring, nor insinuating, DWB in any way shape or form of questionable business practices.

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#37

09-20-2009, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by WiredGuy

blanked out the IDS except their name, photo and date of birth.

DWB, this is probably the easiest and best way to respond. Any more info than this needs to come with a very good reason for the request.

.
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#38

09-20-2009, 09:23 AM

i will not respond to this thread until you send me the model id's that you are authorized to hand over to me forthwith under the authority of the king smokey act 2008/2009

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#39

09-20-2009, 09:23 AM

CHARGER - Knowing everyone at Epoch who works in any capacity to have access to our clients, or access to their sites, I do not believe a word you are saying.

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#40

09-20-2009, 09:25 AM

DWB, did they even provide a reason for the request when they originally contacted you?
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#41

09-20-2009, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by CHARGER

i used to be the manager of the fraud dpt. of a very large cam site (im not gonna say the name of the site) and part of my job af looking at the models once in a while without em knowing and i had 2 time the same problem with guys from the cust service of epoch calling to the office to request docs of the cam girls after going deeper and check at the old chat logs of the models with clients i saw one chat log of a guy saying that he works for a company that give him the membership and he can spend with her all the credits that he wanted ... we only had 2 billing companies our internal merchant and epoch

So you guys can do the math

so i say fuck em

Absolutely bullshit accusations. If you REALLY were "manager of the fraud dpt" you would also know about the amount of bullshit said to those models, in hope of seeing more titties.

Just like webmaster telling models "we can make you rich"
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#42

09-20-2009, 09:36 AM

If the content is more than 2 years old as stated, then the chances are that the ID in question is a paper Thai ID card that is written in Thai including the date of birth, and without checking with the Thai authorities I doubt anybody would be able to conclusivey verify if it was genuine or not.

At that time, even genuine ID cards looked like they had been done on an etch a sketch and put through the washing machine. The newer ones are in plastc form, have thai and English, and also contain a chip, but more than two years ago very few had them.

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#43

09-20-2009, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by directfiesta

very confused answer...

Anybody, including the janitor, can request those documents ( just call up ) , but they should only be supplied to Legal Authorities in position to enforce those laws... ( that excludes the FTA , Health department, Park department ... ) .

As for your " profit angle " , really not pertinent .... Now, Epoch or any other biller, or hosting companies, or design companies can refuse to provide you service ... it is up to them.

I don't think "Anybody" has access to request such info in the first place . If you are foolish enough to just shell out important info like that to "Anybody" you truly to need reevaluate your business and yourself . Epoch is a huge company I am sure they have taken the precaution to use specific people in their dept to ask for such documents.

As for the profit angle , I only mentioned this because you were comparing billing business to hosting , design companies and whatever ....
You dont have to make sense of that , it's the root of every single business aspect but hey profit has nothing to do with anything <sarcasm> .

Lastly , Sure any company can refuse to provide service to their potential or existing client . The point is what ? Does that even need to be said ? It's like saying after the month of March it is April .
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#44

09-20-2009, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Rand

I invite you to come down to Epoch's offices and meet each of them and decide for yourself if you believe anyone has any mislead intentions.

You can never know or judge anyone on their looks or behaviour. You know what neighbours always said about the worst murderers and crazy guys? "I don't undestand this, he seemed to be such a nice guy!"
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#45

09-20-2009, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by webgurl

I don't think "Anybody" has access to request such info in the first place . If you are foolish enough to just shell out important info like that to "Anybody" you truly to need reevaluate your business and yourself . Epoch is a huge company I am sure they have taken the precaution to use specific people in their dept to ask for such documents.

As for the profit angle , I only mentioned this because you were comparing billing business to hosting , design companies and whatever ....
You dont have to make sense of that , it's the root of every single business aspect but hey profit has nothing to do with anything <sarcasm> .

Lastly , Sure any company can refuse to provide service to their potential or existing client . The point is what ? Does that even need to be said ? It's like saying after the month of March it is April .

wow !!!!!

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#46

09-20-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Sly

I'm curious what the opinion of all would be if Epoch or CCBill got caught processing a site featuring a 15-year-old girl...

The witch hunt would be out in fury.

Are you kidding me?

Why does it have to be a feature site?

What about all the unverified, stolen and ripped amateur content that guaranteed has MANY MANY underage girls with cum on their face or whatever else?

Probably should start with those WAY before bothering DWB with his thai bitches..

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#47

09-20-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by andrej_NDC

You can never know or judge anyone on their looks or behaviour. You know what neighbours always said about the worst murderers and crazy guys? "I don't undestand this, he seemed to be such a nice guy!"

Yeah, he even took me out to lunch!
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#48

09-20-2009, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by webgurl

I don't think "Anybody" has access to request such info in the first place . If you are foolish enough to just shell out important info like that to "Anybody" you truly to need reevaluate your business and yourself . Epoch is a huge company I am sure they have taken the precaution to use specific people in their dept to ask for such documents.

As for the profit angle , I only mentioned this because you were comparing billing business to hosting , design companies and whatever ....
You dont have to make sense of that , it's the root of every single business aspect but hey profit has nothing to do with anything <sarcasm> .

Lastly , Sure any company can refuse to provide service to their potential or existing client . The point is what ? Does that even need to be said ? It's like saying after the month of March it is April .

Kind a remind me to situation where bartenders are not allowed by law to request id from possible minors,but they have a right to deny service so people need to show id anyway if they want service.
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katharos

So Fucking Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Posts: 1515
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#49

09-20-2009, 10:26 AM

when i was younger and i wanted to go to disco, i had to show my id. bouncer wanted to know if i am 18+. cause i wanted to be at the disco, i had no problem, its his right to ask and i have to show it or i can go fuck myself ...
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kmanrox

aka K-Man

Join Date: Oct 2001

Posts: 29295
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#50

09-20-2009, 10:57 AM

lawdz even so HELLO PHOTOSHOP... what then?

Crypto HODLr
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