I don't have to. You proved it yourself that you will never be anything other than a designer.

No, it's not the design that sells anything, it's the marketing, dumbass.

spin spin spin, so you make accusations and dont have to prove it? or is it because YOU CANT PROVE IT IDIOT

prove it or stfu.

all you do is talk out of your ass.

so lets use your brilliant thinking:

you have layout A and layout B both with the SAME traffic source and SAME product.

layout B converts better then layout A.

why is this? DESIGN YOU FUCKING IDIOT

OK, let's prove it. Here's my challenge to you. You get one of your multi-million clients to go along with this and throw traffic at a landing page you created (hopefully they're already doing so) and we'll split test it against a landing page I create. Selling the same product, nothing but HTML/CSS, even using old-school tables. If you outconvert me, you get to brag on GFY about it. If I outconvert you, you lose that client to me for all future work and I won't even post about it on here to brag. Deal?

what product do you have in mind?

they arent going to switch to you they are already laughing at you when i sent them this thread.

i dont doubt you can convert or you know how TO DESIGN A PAGE PROPERLY. but you are doubting my skills without even seeing them first.

nice deal so i lose a client and i get to brag? LOL what makes you think i give a fuck about what any of you GFY fat fucks think?

this is a private score putting your foot in your mouth will be payback enough for me. when i win a "you are right MetaMan" is good enough for me. i enjoy putting you wannabes in your place.

lets discuss this off the boards and we can each draw our own conclusion how should i contact you?

I don't care, makes zero difference to me. You pick.

They would if they saw that I'd outsell you. I'm happy they're laughing and having a good time though. :)


Selling has nothing to do with design. Therefore I don't even have to see what your skills are when it comes to design. They're irrelevant.

The very fact that you kept replying to me over and over again, several posts in a row, without me even posting inbetween tells me that you do give a fuck what people on GFY think about you. In fact, in order to feed your ego, you even sent this thread to your client, to show them how you "owned" me. :)

You're wrong. Design doesn't sell. Marketing does. Look it up.

Feel free to ICQ me, 1566665.

I've seen some really crappy sites over the last 14 years and let me tell you. It's not always about the Site Design.

if you didnt notice my ego is as high as it gets, if you were as sexy and smart as me yours would be too. i dont mind teaching you a thing or two along the way.

ill add you over the weekend, i was making fun of you earlier asking if you needed a design make sure you didnt block me. :1orglaugh

and why didnt you answer this? i was even nice enough to leave out the part about calling you a fucking idiot.

Hahaha Damagex wtf you used to be a "leader" in the industry apparently but you claim my example is marketing not design?

You are either:
1) Starting to do hard drugs
2) Fucking with everyone
3) An idiot

You can only pick one of the above.

This. Thread. Delivers.

There is nothing better in life than when you can laugh AT and WITH someone.

Then take my challenge, big shot. :)

Actually, I did. I only entertain trolls on GFY, ICQ is reserved for valuable discussions.

If you think your example is a design issue, then you definitely have bigger problems than I'd have if I truly were an idiot. Luckily for you, ignorance is bliss. :)

lol, great thread, very entertaining.

I wanna chime in now. NEVER had a designer make a design that could sell whether it was a $5 an hour dude from a 3rd world country, or a $3500 design, they all either didn't do it as asked, never completed the job, or gave me a page of blithering rainbow designer diarrhea that didn't convert.

Metaman, DamageX is correct, most designs are for WMs egos, but Damage that plays an important role depending on what type of site it is. A killer flashy design might get more affiliates in the door to push a paysite for you faster than some words. So my new policy is two tours, one flashy, one better converting less design more pitch.

Here's the funny thing, even though I tell my affiliates the shitty design converts better alot refuse to stop using the flashy tour I made for my own ego.

This actually poses a great opportunity for the smart sponsor. Get simple, yet very effective creatives made, spend the money on PPC/paid spots and stop catering to affiliates altogether. I'm willing to bet your ROI would skyrocket. :winkwink:

Whatever the design is...do yourselves a favor and make more money...Don't use a STATIC design. The surfers have zero reason to return. Make it dynamic so that when you put up a new update, that is reflected in the tour at the same exact time.
My tour and my members area mirror one another. That's how you make money. :)

tell me about it :))

i dont just toss up designs then say here pay me, i study markets i spend time with webmasters, my sites take me weeks to complete if you saw the quality you would understand why. this is the reason why i dont work with alot of GFY people. instead of learning from each other alot of people on here have high egos (DamageX) and think they cannot be taught anything.

i am always learning and absorbing info.

i agree with what you are saying but DamageX is just trying to fluff his own balls and it is pretty obvious to anyone.

this thread never said "shitty designs dont convert". there is many cases where a shitty design WILL of course work better.

saying "designs dont sell" is one of the dumbest comments i have ever heard on here. i shouldnt of played with him for so long but all in fun.

this is exactly what i am saying this is 2009 the average surfer is savvy and needs more.

to note i also never stated design is EVERYTHING, but it is an integral part of a site. just along with traffic, marketing, branding, content delivery, load speeds etc etc etc.

why cut yourself short.

DamageX is the typical TGP guy who i know is most likely loosing alot of business, and he is pissed at the new age tube style sites that are faster loading, better looking and have better user retention.

bingo :pimp

funny thread. All in all, I gotta agree somehow with Metaman, although I don't agree (at least 100%) on some points.

First thing first: Design has A LOT to do with Marketing. And viceversa. For your info, I have a degree in marketing and at least 2 of the academic subjects every year were design and/or media related. And everything else was about researching on design and media results. Even easier: Most marketing companies (I mean real marketing companies, not salesmen) have design depts. Advertisement firms have design/art AND marketing departments. So, either a multibillion dollars industry was wrong all these decades (and the whole cultural, economic and social context derived from that industry) and GFY discovered the gun powder or some people here has to step back and re-think things a little.

See, you can use tools like size, color, placement, layout, shape and so on and so on and so on to achieve an outstanding result. You can use even fonts. Gee, I do it every fucking day trying to solve fuckups done by designers with no clue of marketing. Yet, the knowledge of both areas is what will tell you what to use and what to do (and what not). It's true that sometimes designers design for their own egos, sometimes I do it myself. And it's true that sometimes really simple pages convert better than "designed" pages. But that's because the designer that "designed" that page has no clue whatsoever (and probably charge $150 like Meta says, although I know people that charges a few grands and have no clue whatsoever as well). And it's also true that 99% of the times designers are told to do something really specific (usually a copy of another site) and they've no option than doing that, even against their own best judgement.

Let me put an example: a Pinto will take you home. It will do what it's supposed to do, you drive it and it will take you wherever you wanna go. Now, if you have the chance: will you drive a Pinto or a Ferrari? The main purpose will be achieved by both, but the Ferrari has so many added values that you'll always want the Ferrari, you won't even think about the Pinto choice. And that applies to design and everything else in life. You can fuck the fatty next door and obtain sexual pleasure, maybe great food, maybe real love. And you can fuck Megan Fox and maybe she's a frigid bitch that will drive you nuts. Then again, 99.99% of you will choose to fuck Megan Fox. Why? Because of the "perceived added value". Marketing and design.

Everything you do, everything you live, everything you like, everything you wish is driven by... marketing and design. You're molded to it.

I'll go further: design and marketing will tell you that for some kind of content you'll need different looks (like amateurish for amateur sites). Why? Because YOU'RE MOLDED TO IT. Someone decided for you that's what it's supposed to look, someone decided for you you gotta like that and you follow that, because you live in a cultural context where everything was molded, decided, planned and designed in a certain way.

And a final thought: small sites with niched content where the webmaster is a niche follower itself will usually convert well based on webmaster's knowledge of the niche and his/her own taste. And most designers won't be able to beat that unless they know the niche themselves. Now, if the designer knows the niche, it will beat the webmaster's design most of the times, probably ALL of the times (I'm talking about webmasters with no design knowledge, obviously).

And for general niches... well any good designer with just a SLIGHT knowledge of marketing will kick asses night and day. There might be exceptions, but in my pretty long experience I've seen that happening no more than 5 times.

If they are so savvy then why the fuck cant they uncheck the cross sell :winkwink:

Oh I wasn't asking for your opinion Damage. Just pick one of the options.

Out of your whole post (which was a good one), that is the thing that is 100% of the time true. Everything else can have those exceptions here and there...but not this one.

who sucks cock ?

Quoted for truth!

:bowdown

You are right, surfers are savvy and sometimes when they see high tech, high quality, professional design they think "oh fuck, big company, I'm going to get screwed"

But when they see Jim Bob's amateur page they think...well slap my ass, this guy loves the porn like I do...no big corporation that is gonna screw me...just a guy in his basement helping me get the porn i want.

It works both ways and there is no absolute answer. What works to draw in one customer might work against you with another

:1orglaugh
"Preaching to the choir" means that you are speaking to people who agree with you, dumb ass.

Design does sell (although it doesn't always equate to fancy graphics). Anyone who says the contrary is retarded.

/thread

same. I had a straight site I designed that was an old ARS BYOT and my competition was a *Gorgeous* BYOT that had to have cost $2-3k. It was just stunning and fresh looking.

My site I did myself and it was so fucking newbish and plain. I thought no way my site would do well compared to the other webmasters gorgeous site.
Well my site often sold better than theirs, according to the old ARS sales list results :1orglaugh

simple sells!

My best money making designs I've made myself, didn't paid shit for them. And I suck at graphics, so I had to concentrate on marketing.