For those of you that want socialized health care

[theking]

...I will remind you that only 10-20% of the stimulus fund has been dispersed. Also only about 2% of the "cash for clunkers" program has been paid out to the dealers. One dealer that I saw interviewed said that he was owed well over one million by the government and if he is not paid soon he will have to withdraw from the program. The fraud and waste involved in the Medi Care and Medicaid programs is notorious...as well as doctors and hospitals suffer with very slow payments from these programs.

In other words all of these programs are inefficient...so do you really want the government involved with your health care?

[Fletch XXX]

be glad we paid for your surgery speedbump.

you received socialized health care and are a hypocrit for opposing it for others LOL

[directfiesta]

That doesn't help :

Government officials have said some of the submitted paperwork has been incomplete or inaccurate, leading to delays.

The program has led to more than 390,000 vehicle sales.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...terstitialskip

.. and this is not a mandatory program ... Dealers can stay out of it if they wish to ... aint that great !.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

be glad we paid for your surgery speedbump.

you received socialized health care and are a hypocrit for opposing it for others LOL

Man up King ..... is this the case?!!!


.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Man up King ..... is this the case?!!!


.

He has posted numerous times about him using Va hospitals for years.

Anyone who pays attention can see that in one thread he calls for "everyone above 18 to buy health coverage" yet he himself does not do so.

he has posted numerous times about his numerous "surgeries" all done at VA hospitals and all paid for by tax payers. He was not hurt in combat but thinks Americans owe him a life of free health care.

its laughable when you look at it, and its the reason he ignores these facts in these threads ;)

[Fletch XXX]

since I always back up what i say:

Originally Posted by theking

I was injured in the '91 gulf war and the medical care I received while I was on active duty was excellent and my life was saved more than once. I have been in and out of VA hospitals since '92 and I for one have found the care to be excellent...though the wait time can be irritating sometimes

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...=921352&page=3

LOL as I said, sit back and enjoy the free ride while claming socialized health care is bad, although you claim its worked for you... LOL

[theking]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

since I always back up what i say:



http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...=921352&page=3

LOL as I said, sit back and enjoy the free ride while claming socialized health care is bad, although you claim its worked for you... LOL

You are an ignorant liar and do not always back up what you say. If you are not a liar then back up the lies that you have told about me...kid.

While I for one had a good experience with medical care while I was on active duty and while I for one have had a good experience with the VA...I personally know of dozens who have not...and on whole VA care has been...at times a national disgrace and a joke...and will continue to be in future times.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by theking

You are an ignorant liar

at times a national disgrace and a joke...and will continue to be in future times.

You are the only liar here.

You defended VA care days ago when it was called a joke...

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

VA hospitals are a well known, well publicized and well politicized joke

You posted this exact quote retorting Pleasurepays calling it a joke,

Originally Posted by theking

I was injured in the '91 gulf war and the medical care I received while I was on active duty was excellent and my life was saved more than once. I have been in and out of VA hospitals since '92 and I for one have found the care to be excellent...though the wait time can be irritating sometimes.

now here you are doing the same? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

You are the only liar here.

You defended VA care days ago when it was called a joke...




You posted this exact quote retorting Pleasurepays calling it a joke,



now here you are doing the same? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

You really are an ignorant lying fuck now aren't you. Not only can't you back up all of the lies about me...you claim that I was defending the VA when I did not do any such thing...please point out where I did. I spoke about my personal experience with the VA which is not a defense of the VA...but is about my personal experience with the VA.

[IPSKeith]

play nice everyone.

[L-Pink]

So basically you already have free health care from the government. Are you planning to purchase private healthcare or is that something just for the rest of us?

[nation-x]

Umm... noone is proposing "socialized" health care... stop watching Fox News and educate yourself http://www.opencongress.org >> See H.R. 3200

[theking]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

So basically you already have free health care from the government. Are you planning to purchase private healthcare or is that something just for the rest of us?

I have had private insurance since I left active duty in '92. It is limited in scope because I am a 100% disabled vet and have multiple pre-existing conditions...but I use it for minor things...in place of having to drive to a VA hospital. For anything major then I use the VA.

[cherrylula]

Now all of a sudden he has private health care, yet for years he has been on GFY talking about his VA health care LOL

[quiet]

again, i ask: what is it like to be your own father?

[theking]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Umm... noone is proposing "socialized" health care... stop watching Fox News and educate yourself http://www.opencongress.org >> See H.R. 3200

There are many people in this country that have wanted...and still want...socialized health care. BTW...there are three bills in Congress being worked on and two bills in the Senate being worked on. H.R.-3200 is just one of the bills...being proposed and there is no consensus on it.

[theking]

Originally Posted by cherrylula

Now all of a sudden he has private health care, yet for years he has been on GFY talking about his VA health care LOL

I have seldom...if ever...mentioned anything about my VA health care. In addition I have mentioned before that I maintain private insurance for the very reason I stated above.

[quiet]

Originally Posted by theking

I have seldom...if ever...mentioned anything about my VA health care. In addition I have mentioned before that I maintain private insurance for the very reason I stated above.

pigshit!

[Tom_PM]

I couldnt get fucking health insurance if I paid a million dollars for it. Not in the USA man. I'm a heart attack survivor. Guess who's not jumping through hoops to insure me? Thats correct. Everyone. End of story.

Sorry, there is no happy ending. Just a nasty ugly painful tug job.

[theking]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I couldnt get fucking health insurance if I paid a million dollars for it. Not in the USA man. I'm a heart attack survivor. Guess who's not jumping through hoops to insure me? Thats correct. Everyone. End of story.

Sorry, there is no happy ending. Just a nasty ugly painful tug job.

Well actually you can but it would be limited in its scope and would not cover any pre-existing conditions or complications caused by pre-existing conditions...it would be good for minor things but if you have alot of money you may be better off paying out of pocket for minor things.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by theking

...there are three bills in Congress being worked on and two bills in the Senate being worked on. H.R.-3200 is just one of the bills...being proposed and there is no consensus on it.

please list those bill #s.

thx in advance!

[theking]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

please list those bill #s.

thx in advance!

It is just as easy for you to do a google search as it is for me.

[V_RocKs]

1 billion dollars a year is the estimate California believes fraudsters bilk the medi-cal program.

There are only 28 investigators for fraud in the program.

Wouldn't it make sense to spend $100,000,000 to hire 1,250 investigators @ $80,000 a year per investigator to stop perhaps $800,000,000 of the fraud?

We'd save $700,000,000 a year and the other $100,000,000 would be growing the economy since it would be spent in 98% legal ways like most people spend their cash.

Not to mention 8% would come back to the state as taxes.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

1 billion dollars a year is the estimate California believes fraudsters bilk the medi-cal program.

There are only 28 investigators for fraud in the program.

Wouldn't it make sense to spend $100,000,000 to hire 1,250 investigators @ $80,000 a year per investigator to stop perhaps $800,000,000 of the fraud?

We'd save $700,000,000 a year and the other $100,000,000 would be growing the economy since it would be spent in 98% legal ways like most people spend their cash.

Not to mention 8% would come back to the state as taxes.

[V_RocKs]

GFY hiccuped

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by theking

There are many people in this country that have wanted...and still want...socialized health care. BTW...there are three bills in Congress being worked on and two bills in the Senate being worked on. H.R.-3200 is just one of the bills...being proposed and there is no consensus on it.

and none of them propose "socialized" health care... period.

[TheDoc]

The U.S. Already Has Socialized Healthcare.. several forms of it, all of which work.

Just because a couple have bumps in them, doesn't mean it doesn't work and it doesn't mean they shouldn't be expanded.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by theking

It is just as easy for you to do a google search as it is for me.

i've done that.

i've read various news sources, online & offline, i've watched coverage of the health care issue-

i can't find, nor have i heard of, any health care bills other than 1 in the senate healthcare committee and the 1 in the house.

[theking]

Originally Posted by nation-x

and none of them propose "socialized" health care... period.

All of them have variations of socialized health care in them and many of the powerful in the house are pushing for total socialized health care...in that they want a single payer health care system.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

He has posted numerous times about him using Va hospitals for years.

Wait a minute. You are putting our veterans that earned VA benefits in the same class as some illegal alien or a welfare case?

Not even close.

[theking]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i've done that.

i've read various news sources, online & offline, i've watched coverage of the health care issue-

i can't find, nor have i heard of, any health care bills other than 1 in the senate healthcare committee and the 1 in the house.

Well search again...as there a three in the House and two in the Senate. There is one primary bill in the House and one primary bill in the Senate...niether of which have been resolved at this point in time and require additional work when Congress returns to session.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by theking

I have had private insurance since I left active duty in '92. It is limited in scope because I am a 100% disabled vet and have multiple pre-existing conditions...but I use it for minor things...in place of having to drive to a VA hospital. For anything major then I use the VA.

Ok, I understand now ......


.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by theking

Well search again...as there a three in the House and two in the Senate. There is one primary bill in the House and one primary bill in the Senate...niether of which have been resolved at this point in time and require additional work when Congress returns to session.

wrong.

have a good 1 though.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by theking

All of them have variations of socialized health care in them and many of the powerful in the house are pushing for total socialized health care...in that they want a single payer health care system.

Again... none of the bills that have been introduced contain a single payer proposal... and none propose socialized health care... you are incorrect. Would you call the post office "socialized mail service"? What they are proposing for a public option would be the same as the post office in the sense that is would be a GSE program. It would be seeded by public funds but would have to operate as a private non profit and would receive the backing of the federal government to maintain reserves as required by law. The private insurers are not going to provide health care to those who can't afford it due to unemployment. This is why they are proposing a public option... to maintain coverage for people who need that help. Personally, I would rather that we give money to the public option instead of the private insurers to provide coverage to this demographic. It makes fiscal sense because it will cost less for us to do so. The argument against it is ridiculous and only supports the status quo.... which is not working... period.

[theking]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

wrong.

have a good 1 though.

http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/wm803.cfm

Here is but one link and it took me all of one google search to find it. Notice the bills in just this article.

"The House health care package contains three major proposals, all of which are based on previously introduced House bills. The first would establish association health plans (AHPs) and is based on legislation sponsored by Rep. Sam Johnson (H.R. 525). The second would foster interstate commerce in health insurance, enabling individuals and families to buy health insurance across state lines; this is based on legislation sponsored by Rep. John Shadegg (H.R. 2355). The third would extend federal funding for health insurance pooling demonstrations and programs, including high-risk pools, and is also based on legislation sponsored by Rep. Shadegg (HR. 3204)."

So actually there are 5-9 bills between the House and the Senate. I had posted 5-9 in a previous thread but I could not find all nine while posting in this thread so I just use 3 in the House and 2 in the Senate. In actuality before it is over there will probably be more bills introduced for debate.

[theking]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Again... none of the bills that have been introduced contain a single payer proposal... and none propose socialized health care... you are incorrect. Would you call the post office "socialized mail service"? What they are proposing for a public option would be the same as the post office in the sense that is would be a GSE program. It would be seeded by public funds but would have to operate as a private non profit and would receive the backing of the federal government to maintain reserves as required by law. The private insurers are not going to provide health care to those who can't afford it due to unemployment. This is why they are proposing a public option... to maintain coverage for people who need that help. Personally, I would rather that we give money to the public option instead of the private insurers to provide coverage to this demographic. It makes fiscal sense because it will cost less for us to do so. The argument against it is ridiculous and only supports the status quo.... which is not working... period.

The President has stated that he prefers a single payer system...powerful House members have stated that they prefer a single payer system...Howard Dean just stated...in the past day or two...that he would not support anything other than a single payer system. I don't think a single payer system will be put into whatever final bill there is but there are those pushing for it and no bill has been resolved as of yet and may not be.

[SarahLLO]

Yes, because as someone who has worked in hospitals for years, the system needs overhauled so badly it's ridiculous. Many hospitals are bleeding money because equipment, staff, and medicine is so expensive... and this is even WITH the high prices they charge and understaffing. I'm talking a Top 100 Hospital only being able to afford to pay one person to cover making IVs for a 10 hour shift... for 400-500 patients. Many health care employees aren't even given health insurance because the hospitals simply can't afford it.

Emergency/severe health care simply doesn't work well as a private industry - people are too greedy and it's hurting everyone else involved. I worked in a hospital pharmacy for three years and saw how much even the hospital was being charged for the drugs we needed to dispense... it's ridiculous.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by theking

The President has stated that he prefers a single payer system...powerful House members have stated that they prefer a single payer system...Howard Dean just stated...in the past day or two...that he would not support anything other than a single payer system. I don't think a single payer system will be put into whatever final bill there is but there are those pushing for it and no bill has been resolved as of yet and may not be.

You are confused... public option does not equal single payer... and that is what they are all talking about. Obama supported a single payer in 2007 but later changed his position (before he started running for president). He stated many times during the campaign and since he began his presidency that he no longer supports a single payer system.

[theking]

Originally Posted by SarahLLO

Yes, because as someone who has worked in hospitals for years, the system needs overhauled so badly it's ridiculous. Many hospitals are bleeding money because equipment, staff, and medicine is so expensive... and this is even WITH the high prices they charge and understaffing. I'm talking a Top 100 Hospital only being able to afford to pay one person to cover making IVs for a 10 hour shift... for 400-500 patients. Many health care employees aren't even given health insurance because the hospitals simply can't afford it.

Emergency/severe health care simply doesn't work well as a private industry - people are too greedy and it's hurting everyone else involved. I worked in a hospital pharmacy for three years and saw how much even the hospital was being charged for the drugs we needed to dispense... it's ridiculous.

The local hospital a couple of months back layed off 16 RN's and Nurses Aides...so some that require hospital care are driving twenty-five miles to check into a better staffed hospital though I have heard that it too is understaffed. The economy has affected many fields I guess.

[theking]

Originally Posted by nation-x

You are confused... public option does not equal single payer... and that is what they are all talking about. Obama supported a single payer in 2007 but later changed his position (before he started running for president). He stated many times during the campaign and since he began his presidency that he no longer supports a single payer system.

No I am not confused there are those that are pushing for single payer...though I clearly do not expect a single payer system to ever be approved...even by the House...let alone the Senate.

[TheSenator]

I firmly believe that health care is a right.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by theking

You are an ignorant liar and do not always back up what you say. If you are not a liar then back up the lies that you have told about me...kid.

While I for one had a good experience with medical care while I was on active duty and while I for one have had a good experience with the VA...I personally know of dozens who have not...and on whole VA care has been...at times a national disgrace and a joke...and will continue to be in future times.

My best friend was medically retired from the Army. He was a mechanic on those missile trucks in Germany that had nuclear missiles on them. Seems one of them leaked, and now he has a condition called ?water on the brain? ? where the fluid in his skull fails to properly drain into his body, causing pressure to build up. This has nearly killed him a dozen times; He's had a dozen operations on his brain and has a shunt (a tube embedded in his head under his skin that goes from his brain to his bladder to drain out fluid). The VA has kept him alive for twenty-five years. I've been with him every step of the way and I've seen the care he's gotten first hand. It's amazing.

He should be dead now. But thanks to the VA, through a dozen emergencies and also a dozen operations on his brain, he's still alive.

[brassmonkey]

i want free cake

[SarahLLO]

Originally Posted by theking

The local hospital a couple of months back layed off 16 RN's and Nurses Aides...so some that require hospital care are driving twenty-five miles to check into a better staffed hospital though I have heard that it too is understaffed. The economy has affected many fields I guess.

It's gotten worse in recent years, yes, but this is a long-standing problem. Like I said, places like hospitals don't really lend themselves well to straight up capitalism - there are greedy people up at the top and it's making shit overpriced and hard for the entire industry, which in turn passes it on to the patients just to try and break even.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by theking

...I will remind you that only 10-20% of the stimulus fund has been dispersed. Also only about 2% of the "cash for clunkers" program has been paid out to the dealers. One dealer that I saw interviewed said that he was owed well over one million by the government and if he is not paid soon he will have to withdraw from the program. The fraud and waste involved in the Medi Care and Medicaid programs is notorious...as well as doctors and hospitals suffer with very slow payments from these programs.

In other words all of these programs are inefficient...so do you really want the government involved with your health care?

I recently read a book by a former Congressman about the Middle East; I can't remember his name. He said that when money is approved for something, we expect it to be handed over quickly and that's as far from the truth as could be.

He used an example of Congress approving a bill to give One Billion Dollars to inner city kids to help them with their reading. Once the money is approved, committees have to be put together, and they'll spend six months fighting over who should be on the team, etc. Then they have to form a legal panel to discover exactly what the law means, and what they can and cannot do with this money. Then they have to research agencies and private businesses that they can use, get them approved, and then start the bidding process. Once agencies and private businesses are slected and go through the bidding process, and get approved, then they have to come up with a plan, which has to be reviewed by the committee and the legal panel.... Before you know it, two years has passed and not a dime has been spent yet.

By the time the money is spent, the people who originally approved it have left office.

(This sort of reminds of when I worked at Playboy. I kid you not we had conference calls to decide who was going to be in on the real conference call.)

[theking]

Originally Posted by Rochard

My best friend was medically retired from the Army. He was a mechanic on those missile trucks in Germany that had nuclear missiles on them. Seems one of them leaked, and now he has a condition called ?water on the brain? ? where the fluid in his skull fails to properly drain into his body, causing pressure to build up. This has nearly killed him a dozen times; He's had a dozen operations on his brain and has a shunt (a tube embedded in his head under his skin that goes from his brain to his bladder to drain out fluid). The VA has kept him alive for twenty-five years. I've been with him every step of the way and I've seen the care he's gotten first hand. It's amazing.

He should be dead now. But thanks to the VA, through a dozen emergencies and also a dozen operations on his brain, he's still alive.

I suspect that most vets that have recognizable severe medical conditions receive great care. I know several personally whose condition is not that severe...but is real...that have not been treated as well as they and I think they should have been. Something else about VA hospitals...they are not all the same. Some provide better care than others...sometimes because of the class of doctors that are available to them...and sometimes because of the Administrators of the hospital. The Palo Alto VA hospital in California used to be...and may still be...great because it has access to Doctors from Standford.

[theking]

An anecdotal story. I once drove a retired and disabled vet to Fort Miley VA hospital down around San Franciso. He had suddenly lost the use of his legs and could not walk. I rented a wheel chair and drove him down. It took about six hours for him to see a doctor. I went outside to get some air and shortly he came wheel chairing out. He said they wouldn't admit him to the hospital. I went inside and raised a little ruckus...demanding to see the doctor that refused to admit him. After about an hour the doctor came out to speak with me. I told the doctor that I did not have to have a medical degree to know that the sudden loss of the use of ones legs represents something being severely wrong. I also told the doctor that I had drove him down and that I was not going to drive him back. I told him that he was outside in his wheelchair and that was where I was going to leave him and then I was going straight to every major TV station and every major news paper in San Francisco and see if they might be interested in a vet (whom was decorated and had served his country for more than 20 years) sitting outside in a wheelchair in the dark (which it would soon be) because he was denied admittance to the hospital. The doctor changed his mind and admitted him...he was eventually transferred to Palo Alto and had surgery as well as a two month stay in the hospital

[DaddyHalbucks]

Veterans EARNED their health care from the VA.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by TheSenator

I firmly believe that health care is a right.

So do 50 million illegal aliens and millions of unionists and welfare queens. It's why we're in the mess we're in.

[2012]

google told me this is all bullshit