dav3

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Pleasurepays

i blame tubes

dav3

The whole documentary is really interesting and definitely worth the watch, if you are into astronomy and cosmology.

The Electric Universe Part 1

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Juicy D. Links

Do I bring my own tinfoil or do they supply that at the seminar?

dav3

If you watched the video with an open mind, you wouldn't even be talking about tinfoil.

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dready

This is pretty interesting, but it makes me wonder why the idea isn't more widespread.

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Juicy D. Links

It's called peer review.

Darkland

The only problem with these current theories is that they are only being explored by those fringe scientists who are trying to topple the standard model. Not only of how stars work but as well as how gravity itself works in this new electrical model.

This fight is analogous to when Lemaître and Friedmann tried to overturn the scientific community, specifically Fred Hoyle and the rest of the "steady staters", by proposing the universe was expanding as a result of a "big bang". Even Einstein was adamantly opposed to these ideas as they were clearly contradictory to his own well established theories and equations.

I too find many flaws in the theory of nuclear fusion of the sun. The first being the fudging of the model to account for the creation of a stable helium isotope. Through early equations they were always left with an unstable helium isotope when deuterium and hydrogen fused. This is obviously a major drawback to their nuclear fusion theory. So what do they do? Just like Einstein and many scientists of the day did and still do. They mess with the data or create new stages in the model to fit their theory. They added an extra fusion process of 2 unstable helium isotopes that conveniently throw off the unneeded pair of hydrogen atoms to form the stable helium isotope they were looking for.

It is not fact yet.

At any rate these guys have a long battle ahead of them before an electric model of the universe overthrows the current standard model.

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"The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hopes for Peace in Our Time, in the United States or any other country. Make no mistake about it: We are At War now -- with somebody -- and we will stay At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives." H.S.T. 09/12/01

Darkland

I would also like to add that these guys need a champion of the caliber of Edwin Hubble to collect or find that one solid bit of proof. If it wasn't for Edwin and his discovery of red-shifting galaxies we wouldn't have the current "Big Bang" model of an expanding universe.

I think there is a lot to this new electric model and will be excited to see the final results if they ever come in my lifetime.

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"The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hopes for Peace in Our Time, in the United States or any other country. Make no mistake about it: We are At War now -- with somebody -- and we will stay At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives." H.S.T. 09/12/01

Darkland

Lack of hard data. Einstein had a lot of trouble getting his theories of relativity accepted by the scientific community because they did not fit the current models. It wasn't until Arthur Eddington gave solid proof during photography taken during a solar eclipse. It indeed showed Einstein's predicted deflection of light due to gravity.

These guys face the same challenges. Fighting the standard model and the key discovery of something that gives them undeniable proof.

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"The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hopes for Peace in Our Time, in the United States or any other country. Make no mistake about it: We are At War now -- with somebody -- and we will stay At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives." H.S.T. 09/12/01

Libertine

Because it's nonsense, mainly.

But don't just trust me. Read their claims:

http://www.kronia.com/saturn.html
You might recognize some of their members from the video:
http://www.kronia.com/kronia.html

They essentially build upon the ideas of Immanuel Velikovsky, who tried to defend the literal truth of ancient (biblical) myths by creating intricate astronomic theories with little basis in actual science.

Their theories are fun, but absolutely and utterly false. What they do isn't science, it's making up stories with little regard for the laws of physics or empirical data.

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2MuchMark

Pseudoscience at its best.

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dav3

Anyone watch the full documentary?

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milambur

There is a lot of errors in the statements of that "documentary". But obviously there is an electrical component in a star given the amount of free electrons flowing around. But that dosen't negate the fusion theory.

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The Duck

Very interesting clip. Thank you.

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Hentaikid

The sun is a lump of burning coal, everyone knows that.

dav3

The points that made the most sense to me and got me stuck on this topic, are the sunspots and the corona.

If sunspots are pretty much like a void in the surface, why do they appear darker? Shouldn't the closer you get to the nuclear furnaces core be brighter?

Why is the corona hotter? Should the surface of a nuclear furnace be hotter than the photosphere around it?

I am definitely not anywhere close to being a cosmologist, but these seem like good questions that piqued interest to me.

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Grapesoda

boy are we fucked when we get the light bill (

Libertine

Why do people like you assume that scientists are absolute morons?

You readily admit that you're not exactly an expert on this matter. Yet, when some random people raise a few questions, you just go ahead and apparently assume that those are arguments that the many scientists in the field have never thought about.

Instead of listening to points that "made sense" to a completely uneducated viewer, perhaps you should try googling them and see what organizations like NASA have to say?

Typically, the reason that mainstream scientists reject the arguments of fringe scientists isn't that they're unaware of their arguments. Rather, it's that their arguments simply don't hold up under scientific scrutiny.

If you want to dispute the findings of mainstream science, here's what you do: you head over to the nearest university, enroll, and spend the next eight years studying the subject. At the end of those years, not only will you have a shiny PhD to show off at parties, you'll also have a good understanding of the subject.

The interesting thing here is that a vast majority of the people who have taken those steps and have spent those years studying the subject reject theories like these. That should tell you something.

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AdultHardcore

Very interesting..

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GatorB

This shows why you should have paid more attention in science class.

"Sunspots appear as dark spots on the surface of the Sun. Temperatures in the dark centers of sunspots drop to about 3700 K (compared to 5700 K for the surrounding photosphere). They typically last for several days, although very large ones may live for several weeks. Sunspots are magnetic regions on the Sun with magnetic field strengths thousands of times stronger than the Earth's magnetic field. Sunspots usually come in groups with two sets of spots. One set will have positive or north magnetic field while the other set will have negative or south magnetic field. The field is strongest in the darker parts of the sunspots - the umbra. The field is weaker and more horizontal in the lighter part - the penumbra."

milambur

Sunspots aren't voids, they are areas on the sun that are a bit cooler than the rest of the surface due to magnetic activity. Actually they are still over 4 000 kelvin hot.

The corona is most likely so hot due to the magnetic field are able to accelerate atoms/ions to extreme speeds, that can't occur on the actual surface since the density is a trillion times higher.

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milambur

I hate when you forget to update the thread before posting and somebody has already made a reply about the same thing ... lol

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Supz

Would you eat the moon if it tasted like spare ribs?

dav3

The "random people" in the video are a physicist and an electrical engineer. They are not just asking a few questions, they are finding problems with the current model and explaining them with a new model.

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Libertine

There are millions of physicists and electrical engineers in the world. Had they been astrophysicists with a strong research record, they wouldn't be random people. Since they lack that, however, they are in fact random people.

Apart from that, how would you know if they actually were finding real problems with the current model? Do you even know what the real problems with the current model are? Or are you simply taking the word of these two random guys over the word of the established scientists in the field?

My money's on the latter.

You found a seemingly interesting theory on something you have admitted you know very little about, and for some bizarre reason, you decided that you preferred this theory over the established ones - which you don't even know.

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seeandsee

sun is not real, we are in simulation!

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dav3

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Darkland

Okay, now that I have some spare time let me pop the holes in the electric model of the sun.

This is quite elementary and I still do not see why people have a problem understanding this concept. Lets start with the basics which is caused by the intense electrical and magnetic forces raging on the surface of the sun. At the core this phenomenon is not occurring, it is too densely packed and the mass/gravity is too great.

The second, and one people don't know about is sound waves. The sun is extremely loud and if you were able to survive close proximity to its surface you would instantly be struck deaf and quite likely shredded from the blast. Think of the sound a raging furnace makes and multiply that by millions upon millions.

Most of these waves propagate from the volatility of the rise and fall of the magma or plasma. Every 5 seconds a mass the size of Texas boils to the surface of the sun from the core, cools and descends again. This happens over every inch of the sun, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

These massive sound waves interact with the particles, accelerating their speed and cause friction by clashing into each other. Any 7th grader can tell you what friction causes... HEAT. Since the sound emanates from the surface and NOT from the core it means the core will always be cooler than the corona.

Another cause is very much the same way your microwave heats up your food.

This one is even more elementary. All the gas planets in our solar system display the same differential rotation at varying points in their spherical surface. Why? Simple. The sun or any gas planet, moving at a constant speed, has different speeds of rotation based on distance from the axis. In the xy plane a point about the equator would have to cover more distance than at the poles. What does this mean? The equator has to travel faster than the poles to maintain the same speed.

This topic is still not well understood but could be caused by a number of phenomenon. The solar wind, comprised mostly of electrons and proton with energies of about 1 keV, vary in temperature and speed up over time. The temperature of the corona aids in this acceleration as well as natural kinetic energy. Think of it in terms of using gravity from a body with high mass as a slingshot to gain free acceleration.

Sunspots have been widely misunderstood. These are NOT holes leading to the suns core. They are areas of the sun marked be massive magnetic activity which inhibits convection, forming areas of reduced surface temperature. Ever notice when holding a magnet in your hand it feels slightly cool or cold? Sunspots are merely areas that are not quite as hot as the surrounding area. So why are they black? Because the surrounding areas outshine them immensely. If you were to remove that sunspot from the sun it would actually be as bright or brighter than a welding arc.

Sunspots first appear at higher solar latitudes, then move gradually closer to the equator. And what do we know about the equator? It moves faster than the other regions of the sun. So it is only logical as sunspots move from a slower region to a faster region they will accelerate. Also take into account that they constantly expand and contract, creating a sort of natural acceleration.

I am not sure what they are referring to here but was already covered in the causality of massive magnetic activity and the speed due to travel through differing rotational bands.

As far as the penumbra and the umbra goes, that is no mystery as we have a similar effect when the earth experiences a solar eclipse. If you are observing the eclipse in the umbra you are in direct line with the eclipse and therefore in the darkest shadow cast by the moon or the center. If observing from an area in the penumbra you are in the lighter shadows near the shadows edge. The use of "interior walls" is very misleading as the sunspot is NOT a hole.

With all that being said, I do think that as far as gravity goes there might be a chance that it works or is explained better under an "electric model" but as this is a recent topic I am not well versed in it's theories. What I do know is that our current model of gravity has some holes in it.

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"The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hopes for Peace in Our Time, in the United States or any other country. Make no mistake about it: We are At War now -- with somebody -- and we will stay At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives." H.S.T. 09/12/01

Juilan

I know I would. Heck! I'd have seconds and then polish it off with a tall cool Budweiser.

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Titan

interesting

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