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-   -   Liquid By Design Statement (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=91738)

AM Jeff 12-03-2002 11:20 PM
I also have done work for Darren and he paid me upfront.
I have no problems with the man.
He's beeen nothing but professional to me.

Also..I never heard of someones assets being froze because of a divorce.
If thats the case..how can either one eat, live, pay bills?

Must be alot deeper than that for a business account to be frozen. That's, if it is true.
Maybe when I talk to the laywer next time..I'll ask him if that can be done.

[Labret] 12-03-2002 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by bibabi
Liquid By Design Statement


In July 2002 I formed Liquid By Design a company that was to serve both mainstream and adult designs. My mission was to provide both quality and affordable design work with a customer service base.

Before I continue further, I feel I need to make my intentions noted: the delay in this statement is due to the fact that I have been ill and in the hospital since Wednesday of last week and I also had to consult legal on a few issues before I made a public statement regarding issues I wanted to discuss here.

I also need to make the statement that after I post this I will not be replying to the statements made here in?If you would like to inquire further on a subject that is directly related to business you have with Liquid by Design you may contact me via e mail.

In July 2002 David (AKA BAT) contacted me about doing contracted design work for Liquid By Design, with that he brought with him his ?Portfolio? and gave it to Liquid By Design to use freely in our website. His portfolio was published and we began advertisings for business. Within 24 hours I received a copy write infringement notice related to David?s design work from Gammae Entertainment. At that time I was informed by Gammae that David had a two year no compete with Gammae and was not allowed to work for other companies as a designer. I complied with Gammae?s request and removed all items they had concerns with. David then created ?Mock? type designs for the portfolio that included Lesbians Kisses, last month I was informed that in fact Zoran accused Liquid By Design of copying that site from None other than Mike Wylde. The posts were made onhttp://www.freeadultgraphics.com/msgboard/message.cgi and the site accused of being copied is:http://www.brownhairgirls.com the site developed by Bat is in our portfolio at:http://www.liquidbydesign.com/paysit...ses/index.html

To my knowledge the design was an original work created by David and let the matter go? I apologize to Mr. Wylde if in fact the design is a copy and upon request will remove it from our portfolio.

David and I discussed the issues with Gammae and he continued to be interested in working. With that he created a new identity and began designing contracted project work for Liquid By Design. When the Ice Cold Cash contest came I asked David if he would design me an Ice Cold Cash site, he agreed and he was t be paid the 400.00 for design and a 1000.00 bonuses if we in fact won the contest. It took along time and a ton of ICQ messages and e mails to receive payment. We also received more design work from this company to include 2 pay sites, banners, joins pages and more. All work was completed and approved by the staff rep for the company, all sites were delivered, and I continue to wait for payment for some of the work for these projects.

I then offered David a full time position working with Liquid By Design that gave him a yearly salary of 50K American per year. Once he became employed full time he was instructed that all design work, psd?s etc. Became property of Liquid By design and he was not aloud to use any work in his personal portfolio. On three separate occasions I had to ask David to remove those from his personal website. For two reasons: one because he agreed to this and two because of the contracts with Gammae Entertainment. I continue to stand by this and he is not allowed nor will he be allowed to display the work in his portfolio.

Questions regarding the designs he created are quite simple. My company is a Wisconsin based company, David was hired as a full time employee with this company, there are no designs he has not been paid for, there are only hours he has not been paid for. Therefore he has no right to any designs, nor does he have the right to display these in his portfolio.

I feel awful about what has happened to David, I feel awful that he signed an agreement with Gammae that put him in a position that he could not freely work as a designer, as talented as he is, I feel horrible inside that my personal life made it impossible for me to make payroll in October to him for the hours he worked for me. I feel awful that my pride got in the way of being 100% honest with him about events that were unfolding in my life and with the business that I had no control of. I feel awful that I entrusted a long time online friend to borrow me the payroll telling me he sent it and then basically disappearing from the earth with the money and telling both David and I the money was sent to him.

I was not going to get into the personal issues that led to most of this but have decided a brief explanation is needed. In September my marriage of 10 years was being dissolved and all assets from my company were frozen as community property assets. So all monies in my business accounts were frozen and will not be released until March 2003. I tried everything to get the money together for David, because he was my friend and because he had worked the hours, I tried borrowing the money from the bank, but because of the divorce, they decided it was too risky to loan the money after they had initially told me they were going to. I had borrowed the money from a long time internet friend who said he would do it and told David he had sent the money and then never did, and now this so called friend won?t even talk to me or answer my calls. During all these events, the stress resulted in medial problems including a bleeding ulcer, chronic migraines and some other medical issues. My statement comes after spending 5 days in the local hospital trying to get the bleeding and vomiting under control. My divorce has made me very emotional and has basically financially ruined me.

I never meant to not pay David. He is my friend. I made some bad choices in decisions I made with events that occurred after my personal life events unraveled. To be honest with you all, the divorce has put me in financial despair. I am loosing more then just a business by these events. I have 4 children who are now forced to leave there home and schools, I am loosing my home, my cars my life?. Those of you who know me and know who I am know that this is true, that my life has been ruined because my husband couldn?t keep his dick in his pants and that he destroyed the lives of me and the kids but in the process destroyed my business also. That since this post I have used all financial resources I have and am in desperate need. It sucks that Darren and my husband destroyed my life in the matter of two months.

As for the gentleman that started this post, your only complaint with this company is the length of time it has taken to get your work done. My personal financial life is none of your fucking business. Your slanderous remarks about me and accusations about me and who I am are unjustified. You didn?t even have the balls to ask me?. So fuck you?. And still you have my company complete your designs. We never ripped your fucking ass off? You paid half down for three designs; two are complete one if almost complete. Yeah it took way to fucking long I agree, at one point they were all done and you didn?t like men?s network so we are recreating it for you, and you are pleased with the design so far. Technically and legally, you own one of those designs, though you are in possession of two of the designs, so technically until full payment is made on design two you owe me fucking money. I was willing to do Men?s Network for free, but you know what I think I would be a fool now to do that so this is the way it sits. You paid me down payment, not even 50% of the design costs?.. 1635.00 As a down payment for these designs. Which took over a week to get before the designs could even be started. The original price per design was 1499.00 for the first design and 1125.00 for the next two (based on the invoice sent to you dated 10/8/2002). That would have required a down payment of 1875.00, so technically if you want to look at the big picture my friend, who is ripping who off here? You owe me? another: You still owe me 240.00 towards the down payment, plus 750.00 for the completion of design number two and another 1125.00 for the completion of design number three?.

So David should be hoping right now that YOU pay your debts to us so he can get his payroll for October since you are holding pretty much all of it. In fact you can send the 990.00 at anytime Darren or are you going to rip us off? Screw David out of his money? And if you do not want men?s network that is fine by me?. I will just make sure I let the 50,000 adult webmasters and surfers no how you don?t pay your bills?. How YOU rip off designers?. And lastly, if you ever threaten me or call me slanderous names again I will not only sue you, I will go to ever length to discredit you and your ability to be trusted, I will work until my last breath to create a world so miserable for you that you will not know what hit you. You are a coward for bringing issues you had no idea about to the public and calling names like a four year old child. An adult in the business world never act the way you have. It shows how childish and immature you really are. Not only do you not pay your bills you act like a 4 year old that cries and whines and calls names. I actually for a split second felt sorry for you?.
Yeah right.

AM Jeff 12-03-2002 11:38 PM
Lmao Labret...took the works outta my mouth.

Oh..I got some MORE fixes for ya..when ya need them.
ICQ me and I'll send.

redshift 12-03-2002 11:47 PM
Quote:
..online friend to borrow me the payroll telling me he sent it and then ...
are your you didn't mean "LOAN me the payroll"

Keev 12-03-2002 11:52 PM
Cliffnotes please

asuna 12-04-2002 12:00 AM
just read it all...

RedShoe 12-04-2002 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by bibabi
Liquid By Design Statement


In July 2002 I formed Liquid By Design a company that was to serve both mainstream and adult designs. My mission was to provide both quality and affordable design work with a customer service base.

Before I continue further, I feel I need to make my intentions noted: the delay in this statement is due to the fact that I have been ill and in the hospital since Wednesday of last week and I also had to consult legal on a few issues before I made a public statement regarding issues I wanted to discuss here.

I also need to make the statement that after I post this I will not be replying to the statements made here in?If you would like to inquire further on a subject that is directly related to business you have with Liquid by Design you may contact me via e mail.

In July 2002 David (AKA BAT) contacted me about doing contracted design work for Liquid By Design, with that he brought with him his ?Portfolio? and gave it to Liquid By Design to use freely in our website. His portfolio was published and we began advertisings for business. Within 24 hours I received a copy write infringement notice related to David?s design work from Gammae Entertainment. At that time I was informed by Gammae that David had a two year no compete with Gammae and was not allowed to work for other companies as a designer. I complied with Gammae?s request and removed all items they had concerns with. David then created ?Mock? type designs for the portfolio that included Lesbians Kisses, last month I was informed that in fact Zoran accused Liquid By Design of copying that site from None other than Mike Wylde. The posts were made onhttp://www.freeadultgraphics.com/msgboard/message.cgi and the site accused of being copied is:http://www.brownhairgirls.com the site developed by Bat is in our portfolio at:http://www.liquidbydesign.com/paysi...sses/index.html

To my knowledge the design was an original work created by David and let the matter go? I apologize to Mr. Wylde if in fact the design is a copy and upon request will remove it from our portfolio.

David and I discussed the issues with Gammae and he continued to be interested in working. With that he created a new identity and began designing contracted project work for Liquid By Design. When the Ice Cold Cash contest came I asked David if he would design me an Ice Cold Cash site, he agreed and he was t be paid the 400.00 for design and a 1000.00 bonuses if we in fact won the contest. It took along time and a ton of ICQ messages and e mails to receive payment. We also received more design work from this company to include 2 pay sites, banners, joins pages and more. All work was completed and approved by the staff rep for the company, all sites were delivered, and I continue to wait for payment for some of the work for these projects.

I then offered David a full time position working with Liquid By Design that gave him a yearly salary of 50K American per year. Once he became employed full time he was instructed that all design work, psd?s etc. Became property of Liquid By design and he was not aloud to use any work in his personal portfolio. On three separate occasions I had to ask David to remove those from his personal website. For two reasons: one because he agreed to this and two because of the contracts with Gammae Entertainment. I continue to stand by this and he is not allowed nor will he be allowed to display the work in his portfolio.

Questions regarding the designs he created are quite simple. My company is a Wisconsin based company, David was hired as a full time employee with this company, there are no designs he has not been paid for, there are only hours he has not been paid for. Therefore he has no right to any designs, nor does he have the right to display these in his portfolio.

I feel awful about what has happened to David, I feel awful that he signed an agreement with Gammae that put him in a position that he could not freely work as a designer, as talented as he is, I feel horrible inside that my personal life made it impossible for me to make payroll in October to him for the hours he worked for me. I feel awful that my pride got in the way of being 100% honest with him about events that were unfolding in my life and with the business that I had no control of. I feel awful that I entrusted a long time online friend to borrow me the payroll telling me he sent it and then basically disappearing from the earth with the money and telling both David and I the money was sent to him.

I was not going to get into the personal issues that led to most of this but have decided a brief explanation is needed. In September my marriage of 10 years was being dissolved and all assets from my company were frozen as community property assets. So all monies in my business accounts were frozen and will not be released until March 2003. I tried everything to get the money together for David, because he was my friend and because he had worked the hours, I tried borrowing the money from the bank, but because of the divorce, they decided it was too risky to loan the money after they had initially told me they were going to. I had borrowed the money from a long time internet friend who said he would do it and told David he had sent the money and then never did, and now this so called friend won?t even talk to me or answer my calls. During all these events, the stress resulted in medial problems including a bleeding ulcer, chronic migraines and some other medical issues. My statement comes after spending 5 days in the local hospital trying to get the bleeding and vomiting under control. My divorce has made me very emotional and has basically financially ruined me.

I never meant to not pay David. He is my friend. I made some bad choices in decisions I made with events that occurred after my personal life events unraveled. To be honest with you all, the divorce has put me in financial despair. I am loosing more then just a business by these events. I have 4 children who are now forced to leave there home and schools, I am loosing my home, my cars my life?. Those of you who know me and know who I am know that this is true, that my life has been ruined because my husband couldn?t keep his dick in his pants and that he destroyed the lives of me and the kids but in the process destroyed my business also. That since this post I have used all financial resources I have and am in desperate need. It sucks that Darren and my husband destroyed my life in the matter of two months.

As for the gentleman that started this post, your only complaint with this company is the length of time it has taken to get your work done. My personal financial life is none of your fucking business. Your slanderous remarks about me and accusations about me and who I am are unjustified. You didn?t even have the balls to ask me?. So fuck you?. And still you have my company complete your designs. We never ripped your fucking ass off? You paid half down for three designs; two are complete one if almost complete. Yeah it took way to fucking long I agree, at one point they were all done and you didn?t like men?s network so we are recreating it for you, and you are pleased with the design so far. Technically and legally, you own one of those designs, though you are in possession of two of the designs, so technically until full payment is made on design two you owe me fucking money. I was willing to do Men?s Network for free, but you know what I think I would be a fool now to do that so this is the way it sits. You paid me down payment, not even 50% of the design costs?.. 1635.00 As a down payment for these designs. Which took over a week to get before the designs could even be started. The original price per design was 1499.00 for the first design and 1125.00 for the next two (based on the invoice sent to you dated 10/8/2002). That would have required a down payment of 1875.00, so technically if you want to look at the big picture my friend, who is ripping who off here? You owe me? another: You still owe me 240.00 towards the down payment, plus 750.00 for the completion of design number two and another 1125.00 for the completion of design number three?.

So David should be hoping right now that YOU pay your debts to us so he can get his payroll for October since you are holding pretty much all of it. In fact you can send the 990.00 at anytime Darren or are you going to rip us off? Screw David out of his money? And if you do not want men?s network that is fine by me?. I will just make sure I let the 50,000 adult webmasters and surfers no how you don?t pay your bills?. How YOU rip off designers?. And lastly, if you ever threaten me or call me slanderous names again I will not only sue you, I will go to ever length to discredit you and your ability to be trusted, I will work until my last breath to create a world so miserable for you that you will not know what hit you. You are a coward for bringing issues you had no idea about to the public and calling names like a four year old child. An adult in the business world never act the way you have. It shows how childish and immature you really are. Not only do you not pay your bills you act like a 4 year old that cries and whines and calls names. I actually for a split second felt sorry for you?.

Originally posted by [Labret]


Yeah right.
that just about sums it up for me as well.

AM Jeff 12-04-2002 12:36 AM
I about fell asleep reading it.

railz 12-04-2002 03:08 AM
I wonder how many webmasters are undiagnosed sufferers of ADD? :)

Hope your kids are okay and that it works out - things tend to work out for the best in the long run.

Note: I sense a lot of ass-covering and bullshit, but without being in the middle of this, I doubt anyone will ever know the absolute truth.

Peace.

Darren 12-04-2002 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DrewKole
BAT (One of the designers who worked for Traci) had signed a contract, saying he couldnt do designs for another company for approx 2 years.

He created a new identity, so he could work with Traci... Traci just got out of the hospital, she was in since lsat week for various stress related and other issues.

Traci has 4 kids, and an ex husband as of September, their business together has had its assets frozen...

She hasn't been paid in full by Darren, who apparently doesnt like to pay designers, but loves to bitch and spam the board asking for new designers and/or other things.

She's very sorry to David (BAT) and Buckwild is now taking over the business, her past debts are still hers.

I think thats what I got out of it?


If I dont pay people who design for me then all these should be after some serious money!

No wonder the likes of LikeWhoa Design, WebInc, The Nobes, HungryMan, NaughtyDesign, Nemanya, DickMansDesign, XXXPaysitedesign, subnova, sergio, dinkz and the rest of the designing world are after me.

We all deal with shit so I find it amazing that because it is in the adult industry and she is having family problems it makes it allright not to pay anyone? WTF in the real world u would be in serious trouble by now. Anyhow enough said.

Read "Darrens offical statement" below, lol.

cherrylula 12-04-2002 03:43 AM
gotta luv dat fiddi

Darren 12-04-2002 03:44 AM
ok my last post on this entire fiasco.

I feel I had the right to post regarding my designs due to the fact they are over a month late and still not done, I did STRESS to you Traci that the orginal design I gave you needed to be done by the end of November, you even took on more work from me because you said you could get it done

It is about 60 days+ now from the start of the project and I have had NO communication from yourself, I have tried to discuss this many times with you. This is MY only rift with you, I have lost money big time because I have been telling affiliates the new site will be ready in November when in fact i still do not have them in December.

This is all true as you know and saying you are going to sue me because of writing the truth is laughable. This situation is to neither of our liking.

Regarding you not paying designers and claiming you did not get paid by the guys at IceColdCash affected me because the designer would not finish my work until you had paid him, that is why I got involved. All the accusations regarding that where NOT made by me but by several designers. Regarding your holiday in an e-mail to IceColdCash thanking them you said with the prize money you would be going on holiday. That is where that came from.

I am sorry about your problems, truly am, but you made empty promises to me and after 60+ days of waiting and trying to contact you and being told i couldnt talk to you but i had to talk to someone called swift who then disapeared because a family member died and then BuckNaked showed no signs of doing my design it was all very annoying and costing me money. I e-mailed and ICQed u every day for a week saying i would be posting if this wasnt cleared up.

My ONLY problem with you is the designs and the fact you didnt stick to the deadline.

I paid you up front $1,650 via international wire from the UK obviously there is a 2-3 business day delay because of this. The agreed price on the designs was $3000 for all 3 sites that obviously included discount for bulk work, your calculations are wrong because you have listed the jobs on an indivdual basis even though we agreed a bulk price. I paid OVER 50%, the 2 site designs which I now have 2 weeks after the deadline are simplistic compared to the main site design Mens-Network. Mens-Network was $1500 as originally quoted on its own. It is Mens-Network I do not have. You accuse me off some how wrecking your family, well i could accuse you of wrecking my business. This is all so childish.

The GFY post contained other designers saying u have never paid them, that is their problem with you.

Again I am sorry about your family troubles, I do NOT like to conduct business on the boards and I have MANY MANY friends in this industry who I have worked successfully with in the past and this is my first problem of this nature. You have my ICQ and my E-mail and my phone number, this entire eposide is due to me not getting any communication from yourself, I am not an heartless bastard but if I do not know what is going on and I am being fed alot of bullshit then I can only make my conclusions from that.

Much love

Darren

- To see the actual e-mails etc and quotes from private gold, me and the designers Traci do a search for Liquid Design it will come up as the first post.

Jakke PNG 12-04-2002 03:56 AM
:disgust

chodadog 12-04-2002 03:57 AM
I still find it hilarious that this Traci chick doesn't see a problem with paying someone a mere 400 bucks for a fucking top quality design, and giving him a 1000 dollar bonus for winning the ice cold cash competition.

In my opinion, that design was worth more than 1400 bucks to start with. The fact that you pocketed an extra 5100 dollars from it, for doing fuck all, is absolutely sickening.

David would have 7500 bucks if it wasn't for your greedy ass. I'll make damn sure i refer people to every thread about this entire fiasco whenever Liquid By Design is mentioned, in any way, shape or form.

Pathetic. You're scum.

Fletch XXX 12-04-2002 04:00 AM
Agreed.

In the old days we burned bitches, I mean <i>witches</i>

I guess we are more civilized these days.

:glugglug

-=HUNGRYMAN=- 12-04-2002 04:08 AM
Darren's money is good at Paysite Design :winkwink:

We don't mind that it smells of Fish 'n' Chips in beer batter :1orglaugh

Roald 12-04-2002 04:10 AM
Interesting thread :glugglug

CDSmith 12-04-2002 04:29 AM
As I said to you on traci's board Darren.... there are <i>ALWAYS</i> two sides to every story. Well, three if you count the truth.



Hopefully anyone owing anything, money or designs, can make good on what they owe before christmas and everyone can put this behind them.

railz 12-04-2002 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
Darren's money is good at Paysite Design :winkwink:

We don't mind that it smells of Fish 'n' Chips in beer batter :1orglaugh
LOL Mate, you've not lived until you've gone out on the town with the boys and then stopped for a Kebab at 4am.

It's an English tradition :) Although I never liked fish n' chips.

-=HUNGRYMAN=- 12-04-2002 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by railz


LOL Mate, you've not lived until you've gone out on the town with the boys and then stopped for a Kebab at 4am.

It's an English tradition :) Although I never liked fish n' chips.
Toranna has 4am kebabs too !!! We wrap the bastards in a bun !

http://www.paulspics.com/misc/2bg.jpg

Street Meat is the mainstay of Martin's (Sarcastic-Bastards) diet :winkwink:

nike 12-04-2002 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
Darren's money is good at Paysite Design :winkwink:

We don't mind that it smells of Fish 'n' Chips in beer batter :1orglaugh
Darren has great taste.

...shit now I'm fucking hungry.

EscortBiz 12-04-2002 06:14 AM
please short this story up because myself and many others dont have time to read

volante 12-04-2002 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by EscortBiz
please short this story up because myself and many others dont have time to read
Lotsa people didn't get paid.
Lotsa people didn't get designs.
It's all the fault of Bibabi's ex-husband.

:thumbsup

Naughty 12-04-2002 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by chodadog
I still find it hilarious that this Traci chick doesn't see a problem with paying someone a mere 400 bucks for a fucking top quality design, and giving him a 1000 dollar bonus for winning the ice cold cash competition.

In my opinion, that design was worth more than 1400 bucks to start with. The fact that you pocketed an extra 5100 dollars from it, for doing fuck all, is absolutely sickening.

David would have 7500 bucks if it wasn't for your greedy ass. I'll make damn sure i refer people to every thread about this entire fiasco whenever Liquid By Design is mentioned, in any way, shape or form.

Pathetic. You're scum.
1400 + 5100 = 7500:eek7

Quote:
Originally posted by ebizz
please short this story up because myself and many others dont have time to read
It's been done on page 1. by Drew.


Traci, if you are REALLY serious about your assets, sold the carS you are talking about (or at least one of them) and tried everything else to get some cash. Yet still don't have any, I can 'donate' 50$ for a small present for the twins. Hit me up on icq for your paypal account. I've been where your kids are and it sucks, even 20 years after.

Gary 12-04-2002 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch XXX
I dont see how one can point the finger at another for them 'losing' a home, and your children not having xmas.

Thats weak.
Ya, my kids arent having cristmas either, but its because i spent all the money on hookers and crack.

SR 12-04-2002 06:51 AM
Traci I guess you would have saved yourself alot of trouble if you would have been honest about your situation to the people you owed money.

Business is business and people should get paid. If you would have owed me money and you would have explained your situation I would have no problem with waiting for my money but if you would ignore me I would get pissed.

Not paying or not I hope that you and your kids will be okay after all.

chodadog 12-04-2002 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Naughty


1400 + 5100 = 7500:eek7
Haha, didn't even notice that. I really should read over my posts before i actually hit the reply button.

eroswebmaster 12-04-2002 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
Darren's money is good at Paysite Design :winkwink:

We don't mind that it smells of Fish 'n' Chips in beer batter :1orglaugh
But does it reach your designers' pockets?

dig420 12-04-2002 02:58 PM
I got divorced and all my 12 kids have cancer *sniff*

fuck you pay me :BangBang:

Bobo 12-04-2002 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary


Ya, my kids arent having cristmas either, but its because i spent all the money on hookers and crack.
You too eh?

bhutocracy 12-04-2002 05:34 PM
Quote:
Today, I had to tell my kids we were moving because of all this, that there is no Christmas, and I have no idea where we were going to live?. So you see in a week you managed to destroy the lives of a 17 year old, a 12 year old and my 6 year old twins you selfish bastard?
:ugone2far it's called personal responsibility. learn it. live it.

mastamindz 12-04-2002 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by dig420
I got divorced and all my 12 kids have cancer *sniff*

fuck you pay me :BangBang:
wiseguys know how its done :thumbsup


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