I remember last time I had kidney stones waiting for over an hour to be seen and having to jungle crawl across an ER floor so I could vomit in a toilet instead of all over myself or someone else. My legs were tremmoring too bad from the pain to stand. It was absolutely fucking horrid, and that was in the US on a weekday.

They knew I had kidney stones in the past, it wasn't a new diagnosis. All I needed was 15 minutes of a nurse's time, a bed and a shot of demerol. After that you can leave me for hours for the IVP, just don't leave me in that pain. It's fucking incredible.

here's my experience:

for minor things, our system rocks. 5 years ago when i broke my ankle, which then developed into a pulmonary embolism, and i spent over a month in a hospital, i was pissed. it was a horrible experience. if something like that happens again, i would definitely bypass the system and ship myself out to private heathcare, and pay the huge costs instead.

but again, for anything non-life threatening, our system works great.

First you need to ask the Canadians how they like their government and government run institutions... A hell of a lot better than the US average I imagine...

Tell me... given the choice would you send a package UPS, FedEx, or USPS?

Nobody every says USPS because they fucking suck. Yet that's what we're gonna get and middle class and above are going to pay for it while everyone else gets it for free. Oh and since there's not enough health care providers to begin with now they'll all be over crowded and wait times will get longer for everyone for all sorts of treatments.

Meanwhile only the rich will be able to afford private healthcare and no wait times; promoting a larger gap between income levels...

The problem with our healthcare in the first place is because of government interference. Because of the way they handle taxes on income it doesn't make sense to go outside of your employer to get healthcare. So now they've created a system where healthcare providers pitch to companies about the savings they'll get.

Instead, why not remove all the shitty government regulation and make it so that healthcare providers sell to individuals, not companies. Then you'd see a better healthcare system. Individuals ask questions like, "what services and benefits will you offer me over the other guy?" Not questions like many employers such as, "how can I save money on this healthcare plan so I'm not paying as much for my employees"...

I've never had a problem with our healthcare system.
:2 cents: :thumbsup

i just prey for health

How many Canadians are happy with their health
...care system?
+++++++++++++

That's the wrong question.

The right question is: how many Canadians are coming to the US for their health care needs because the waiting lines are too long in Canada?

I don't like how you can't get extra services or order tests for yourself if you do the research and know what you are doing..... in the U.S., organizations like life extension foundation allow you to order all kinds of tests for yourself and keep track of your own health, in Canada it is not allowed, it is against the law in Canada....

also there are many brand new diagnostic machines that are in many U.S. hospitals that you can't get in Canada because they cost too much.

i was diagnosed with blood cancer at 3pm on a thursday, in a small medical clinic, 60 miles from Vancouver...3 hours later i was in a private room at the Vancouver General Hospital, Leukemia center...i had a meeting with a hemotologist and an oncologist within an hour, outlining the procedures ahead...friday moring they operated on me and inserted a three tap catheter into my chest....Later that day the final results came in from my bloodwork tests and the type of my Leukemia was identified... next morning chemotherapy started...and i was in the private isolation room for 6 weeks...after that i was a day patient getting treatment daily, but able to go home each nite..

i was going to need a bone marrow transplant and fortunately for me, 7 months later a suitable bone marrow donor was found in Germany... a member of the transplant team from Vancouver flew there to get the stem cells that i would need to survive...

i was given the transplant and again i was in the bone marrow transplant unit for almost 7 weeks...of course my body tried to reject the bone marrow many times over the next two years and i was really a basket case with a ton of side effects, some of which i still have today...but with new anti rejection drugs and hands on attention from a team of dedicated professionals, i was able to keep alive...

the cost for treatment like this in Seattle is over 300K...my cost in Canada, was the parking meter and a new pair of glasses and i still have full medical insurance...they dont kick you out if you have previous medical problems...its a good system, not perfect of course, but i never had to fight with an insurance company or worry about losing my house to pay for the transplant...in fact, i didnt even have to start a begging thread on GFY :)

Look, the Canadian system is pretty good, far better than the British from what I've heard. My mom's side are all Canadian, so I get a lot of good info. Out of that huge French-Catholic family, there have been 4 or 5 of them who have come to the states and paid cash for some procedures they could not get done in Canada for like 18 months and they decided not to wait. A couple more who came for something that wasn't available. And a couple who living in the states went home for some stuff as well. Is there adequate care in Canada? yes, of course. But as noted by a few, if you want really good coverage for the many things the government doesn't cover - it will run you about $200 a month.

In the States, basic care is not provided, people must pay or have insurance. However, for whatever needs, by law, no-one in the states can be denied treatment when needed, doesn't matter if they can pay or not. Is the care here in the States better? yeah, probably. Only time you wait for something here is in an emergency room. Everything else can usually be scheduled within days. Also some of the larger research hospitals will offer treatments and care that you cannot get anywhere else in the world. But without insurance, no one in the states can afford that care type of care. That's the type of care that would clean someone out.

But.. in the states, anyone can buy their own insurance. I had a policy that just covered me. I had to pay 80% of the bill up to $3600 a year. After that, i paid nothing. That cost me $56 a month. How is that not affordable?

Now, both systems have problems. But the concept of trying to push a system conversion at this point is just plain stupidity and will cost far too much money. Money that America just doesn't have. If America keeps falling deeper in debt by spending money like this, it is looking at $3-4 trillion dollars in deficits by middle of 2010 and possible 13% unemployment. The dollar will begin to devalue and the American consumer will be consuming even less than it is now and the res tof the world economy will continue to slow and recede.

It would make far more sense to create a new type of insurance plan that the government would pay for in the form of a tax credit. For anyone who makes less than $100k a year for example, could participate in a group plan that offered set benefits. If they paid their premiums all year, they just turn in the receipts at the end of the year and get a tax credit for those costs.

I'd say the Canadian government did a fantastic job lowering the expectations of it's citizens.
When you start excusing wait times because it's "non-life threatening" you're getting something significantly less than US medical care.

the Canadian system might be FAR better than the US system. But its an irrelevant comparison when the USA is broke, in a recession, has quadrupled the national debt which was already absurd, is printing trillions of dollars like their is no consequence.. then wants to make the multi-trillion dollar transition to a new and MASSIVE government bureaucracy when there is no money to pay for the shit we've spent money on in the last year... much less the coming years.

That transition with be a long and painful one assuming we had the money to do it to begin with.

The problems with medical care in the USA isn't a simple question of "socialized" or "privatized" and won't be solved that easily.

As mentioned above by Doug, the cost of great medical insurance in the US is GROSSLY over stated.

Quoted in case anyone with ADD is skimming this thread and might otherwise miss it.

From my years of working in the Canadian health system myself I can recall 100's of similar cases, similar in that the system came through for them as it did for you Shemp.

I see no "low expectations" at all in your example. :thumbsup

speaking OF sheep and rabble.. you guys, per capita, pay more to help less.

sounds real american.

Those who oppose public health care will use all kinds of propaganda to prevent it.

In my experience, when you really need it, Canadian health care is exceptional.

Every medical facility does triage and prioritizes patients, even in the good ol USA. Worst cases get seen first no matter how much cash you have in hand.

Here if it's serious you get seen, in my experience. If it's not that serious and you can wait, you *may* have to wait a while before being seen. In the ER it could be a few hours (some ER's are worse than others of course). If it's your family doctor referring you to a specialist you get an appointment booked for you and when that appointment day arrives you go see that specialist. If things worsen for you in the meantime then your priority changes.

The difference here is that everyone gets treated, the level of quality in health care is just as high here or higher as it is anywhere else including the US and everyone gets that level of care regardless of how much they can afford to pay.

AND we always have the option to head south and pay for treatment when needed.

Did you know Canadians under our system have a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality rate than the US? Among G8 nations as I said earlier we are second only to Australia, the US being last in the 8th spot. Among all nations the US is a pretty dismal 37th place, not that great for a nation that currently already spends the most money on health care than any other.

I'm not saying the US needs the same system as we have, as that would be extremely naive, but to deny that your system doesn't need some retooling is to be in denial. Where I do become a bit naive is in my hoping against hope that that retooling doesn't come at the price of negatively affecting people like yourself who ARE happy with the quality of care they and their families now have.

The US is a great country and has certainly made the biggest impression on the globe in modern history. It really should have a truly great health care system that looks after ALL of it's citizens. It should certainly be in the top 5 of all health care systems in the world, but it isn't.