--+RANDOM: U.S. History+-- - GoFuckYourself.com

K R I S T E N · 06-30-2009, 10:09 PM

A gf and I just had a stellar dinner...BUT...

3% of our convo was a discussion of what our plans are for the July 4th weekend...

1% of the convo was her going on her "I hate Obama" rant which then got her to get into...

96% of our (one sided) conversation for the night: Her bombarding me with EVERY fact of the founding of the United States of America (from the beginning to present time).

I pride myself on being a SMART chick, but as I sat there, I couldnt help but feel a little stupid bc I dont remember half of what she does...

...so, in the spirit of Independence Day being around the corner, I want to know:

(1) How much U.S. History do you remember from your studies?
(2) When you think "U.S. History/American History" what are the first few things that come to mind?
(3) As an American (or not) do you even care about the who's / what's / when's / where's / why's / or how's of how this country came to be?!

I know this isnt a "provacative" discussion...Im just curious about my fellow GFYers...

My Answers:
(1) Clearly not as much as my friend.
(2) In NO particular order: Constitution, Jamestown/Virginia Colony/John Smith, 13 original colonies, Boston Tea Party, Taxes, Wars, Our Founding Fathers, Revolution, 1776
(3) I suppose I care, but I am more interested in the future.

munki · 06-30-2009, 10:22 PM

Watching the American Experience special on PBS lately, especially the Native American centered mini series was pretty fuckin eye opening to say the absolute least, and I def. kept myself pretty schooled up, coming from a family of teachers.

What did I learn that I still know today overall... America has always had a habit of walking around with a big fucking stick, poking it around right or wrong, and coming up with half assed apologies for whatever happened later. Rinse wash repeat.

NickB. · 06-30-2009, 10:42 PM

Im dutch - Ill be working

Rochard · 06-30-2009, 11:02 PM

In the past ten years for some reason I've become a huge fan of WWII and read all books I can about it. The one thing I've discovered is that what we were taught in high school was slanted, making American look great while barely touching on the sacrifices other countries made.

At the same time, a few years back a friend of mine decided to become a US citizen and had to pass his test. Although this guy was ten times smarter than me, I helped him study. There was like fifty facts he had to memorize, stuff like "who was the original 13 colonies?". The first time around I think I got twenty of them right.

baddog · 06-30-2009, 11:03 PM

Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by munki

What did I learn that I still know today overall... America has always had a habit of walking around with a big fucking stick, poking it around right or wrong, and coming up with half assed apologies for whatever happened later. Rinse wash repeat.

American History goes back further than 1967. Definitely in this conversation. We were hardly "walking around with a big fucking stick, poking it" in 1776.

brassmonkey · 07-01-2009, 12:05 AM

i dont remember shit

munki · 07-01-2009, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it.

American History goes back further than 1967. Definitely in this conversation. We were hardly "walking around with a big fucking stick, poking it" in 1776.

We poked the bear around 1776, the bear underestimated us...

Then there was the lil thing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

And it goes on...

TBS_Andreas · 07-01-2009, 04:01 AM

Might hit a friends b-day party

bloggerz · 07-01-2009, 05:07 AM

i was there

MaDalton · 07-01-2009, 05:30 AM

i remember sitting at a dinner with some friends from the US when one of them said how sad it is that they learned so little about history in general at school. and then one of their girlfriends got really upset and said how much more important the 250 years of US history are compared to thousands of years of world history.

KBoogie · 07-01-2009, 06:45 AM

I was taught nothing about our history in school actually. I vaguely remember doing a play about Donner Pass and a term paper about the Beatles...THAT'S IT!

My history teachers were all coaches so our class environment involved projection movies about random shit like tape worms in Latin America so the coach/teacher could work out his plays for the game that night. And if we lost that game...the next day was a nightmare in class.

Not only did I not learn about any presidents, our geography as a nation in general or any wars, I learned nothing of slavery, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Rosa Parks, or any other african american history.

Coastal Orange County schools leave quite a bit to be desired as I aced many classes without taking my book out of my locker and I am not Mensa-ish, lol.

RobertD · 07-01-2009, 06:49 AM

Read Zinn.

.

JenniDahling · 07-01-2009, 06:53 AM

I attended high school in Hawaii and had one semester of US history and the rest of the time learned world history especially focusing on Asian history, same with geography. Then again, Hawaii was always a reluctant addition to the states and are still wanting independence from the US govt.

Mr Pheer · 07-01-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munki

We poked the bear around 1776, the bear underestimated us...

Then there was the lil thing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

And it goes on...

Damn... this girl was beautiful.

u-Bob · 07-01-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

(3) I suppose I care, but I am more interested in the future.

"History is a guide to navigation in perilous times." -- David C. McCullough

"History is the only laboratory we have in which to test the consequences of thought." -- Etienne Gilson

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana

"We can learn from history how past generations thought and acted, how they responded to the demands of their time and how they solved their problems. We can learn by analogy, not by example, for our circumstances will always be different than theirs were. The main thing history can teach us is that human actions have consequences and that certain choices, once made, cannot be undone. They foreclose the possibility of making other choices and thus they determine future events." -- Gerda Lerner

CherryLipsRosa · 07-01-2009, 07:46 AM

I learned a lot about history but unfortunately i did not study in the US.

pornguy · 07-01-2009, 07:47 AM

Where you are going is partially determined by where you have been. Learn History, It repeats it's self and it will help you stop making the same mistakes in the future.

As for me., My family was on the Mayflower. So I always think about it.

baddog · 07-01-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munki

We poked the bear around 1776, the bear underestimated us...

Then there was the lil thing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

And it goes on...

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Taxation without representation doesn't sound like poking the bear and the trail of tears, while a bummer, was an internal issue, not exactly the same as invading foreign countries (which I presume was your original point with the "walking around with a big fucking stick, poking it" comment.

gornyhuy · 07-01-2009, 09:03 AM

Dream characters worrying about clearly remembering the first part of the weird dream they had.

u-Bob · 07-01-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Taxation without representation doesn't sound like poking the bear and the trail of tears, while a bummer, was an internal issue, not exactly the same as invading foreign countries (which I presume was your original point with the "walking around with a big fucking stick, poking it" comment.

From the British' point of view, what happened in Boston was an "internal issue"...

baddog · 07-01-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

From the British' point of view, what happened in Boston was an "internal issue"...

Your point?

Moe · 07-01-2009, 10:13 AM

Don't test my knowledge Kristen, I'll be more than happy to school you when it comes to world history. If you need any

, feel free to come by my office for History 101 @ 4pm today. Thank you, class has been dismissed

07-01-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

A gf and I just had a stellar dinner...BUT...

3% of our convo was a discussion of what our plans are for the July 4th weekend...

1% of the convo was her going on her "I hate Obama" rant which then got her to get into...

96% of our (one sided) conversation for the night: Her bombarding me with EVERY fact of the founding of the United States of America (from the beginning to present time).

I pride myself on being a SMART chick, but as I sat there, I couldnt help but feel a little stupid bc I dont remember half of what she does...

...so, in the spirit of Independence Day being around the corner, I want to know:

(1) How much U.S. History do you remember from your studies?
(2) When you think "U.S. History/American History" what are the first few things that come to mind?
(3) As an American (or not) do you even care about the who's / what's / when's / where's / why's / or how's of how this country came to be?!

I know this isnt a "provacative" discussion...Im just curious about my fellow GFYers...

My Answers:
(1) Clearly not as much as my friend.
(2) In NO particular order: Constitution, Jamestown/Virginia Colony/John Smith, 13 original colonies, Boston Tea Party, Taxes, Wars, Our Founding Fathers, Revolution, 1776
(3) I suppose I care, but I am more interested in the future.

1. I don't remember as much as I should but at least I can name who are pres and VP are compared to most dumbasses in this country

2. Same as you...I also think of the Civil War and how far we've come...well and how far we still have yet to go (which is pathetic)

3. I care about the present..not the past, especially because right now our country seems to be really messed up...health care, an expensive war...to name just a few. But I know it's important to know the past in order to understand how we got to where we are today...blah blah I feel like I'm quoting a movie.

And btw I will be out and about prancing around MDR on Sat Kristen...text me if you are around, cocktails on the beach, am having a partaaaaaaay. Happy 4th!

Deesnuts · 07-01-2009, 10:21 AM

raped the indians and the land

Moe · 07-01-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deesnuts

raped the indians and the land

That's a great way of summing it up in 6 words

WebairGerard · 07-01-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munki

Watching the American Experience special on PBS lately, especially the Native American centered mini series was pretty fuckin eye opening to say the absolute least.

That was a great special

Ahoddie · 07-01-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moezilla

Don't test my knowledge Kristen, I'll be more than happy to school you when it comes to world history. If you need any

, feel free to come by my office for History 101 @ 4pm today. Thank you, class has been dismissed

I thought you only schooled burritos, Moe.

Redmanthatcould · 07-01-2009, 11:31 AM

This is what the History channel was invented for. The one thing that I like learning about are our past presidents. So much shit gets swept under the rug, it's crazy.

INDY500DRIVER · 07-01-2009, 12:33 PM

Quite true, like it has been suspected that Lincoln was GHEY, and the civil war was thought to be started over an affair between a Senators wife and another Congressman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VS_Jeff

This is what the History channel was invented for. The one thing that I like learning about are our past presidents. So much shit gets swept under the rug, it's crazy.

u-Bob · 07-01-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Your point?

' you really have to ask?

CarlosTheGaucho · 07-01-2009, 12:55 PM

As a non American (as of yet):

Quote:

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

(1) How much U.S. History do you remember from your studies?

1776 - 1791 forming the shape of the the US bill of rights
[/QUOTE]

James Madison, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams

- those who are an everlasting inspiration and I tend to read about those a lot, I own a biography of John Adams and I read a lot about Ben Franklin, looking forward to get full biographies of all of them

extremely exciting time period, extremely exciting personalities, those that tend to inspire me a lot, those who had the balls to make it on their own, those who made a huge deal for what became the American character

Quote:

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

(2) When you think "U.S. History/American History" what are the first few things that come to mind?

Fight for independence, no compromise with the past, new order, citizen fighting for his rights, passion and warfare, something wild, exciting, adventurous, courage and will

Quote:

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

(3) As an American (or not) do you even care about the who's / what's / when's / where's / why's / or how's of how this country came to be?!

Extremely, as a citizen of a country that came through a decades of total humilation and without direct and public opposition I'm extremely interested in how the only country in this world that made its rules "on their own" and the "new way" does, US is a mirror of how will many other countries do in the future

baddog · 07-01-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

' you really have to ask?

My mistake. I thought you had one. I should have known better.

br4sco · 07-01-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

(1) How much U.S. History do you remember from your studies?
(2) When you think "U.S. History/American History" what are the first few things that come to mind?
(3) As an American (or not) do you even care about the who's / what's / when's / where's / why's / or how's of how this country came to be?!

[/SIZE]

1) alot

2) how the white man ( cracker ) is made out to be the devils race

3) this country was started by freemasons

the trail of tears was caused by the yankees , the indians were helping the rebels . But u dont hear much about that heh Now all indians hate the white man as well. The yankees prolly killed more indians then anybody. Most people are fucking stupid and could care less about history as long as they can watch their american idol

pocketkangaroo · 07-01-2009, 01:23 PM

Two great books that will fill you with a ton of information and are written by a great author who keeps things interesting (David McCullogh).

- 1776
- John Adams

K R I S T E N · 07-01-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by br4sco

3) this country was started by freemasons

Thoughts then on the theory of The Illuminati running the U.S. and the world NOW?!?!?

I have freemasons in my lineage, my maternal grandfather (who was tight with the Gettys - way up there in their oil dealings) was the last one...not that that means anything but interesting to note.

baddog · 07-01-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by br4sco

the trail of tears was caused by the yankees , the indians were helping the rebels . But u dont hear much about that heh

You should sue your school system. How the hell were the Indians helping the "rebels" 30 years before the war?

br4sco · 07-01-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

You should sue your school system. How the hell were the Indians helping the "rebels" 30 years before the war?

so why would the indians help the rebels if the rebels were the ones that caused the trail of tears ?

baddog · 07-01-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by br4sco

so why would the indians help the rebels if the rebels were the ones that caused the trail of tears ?

Let me see if I can explain it to you:

Trail of Tears - 1831
Civil War - 1861

br4sco · 07-01-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K R I S T E N

Thoughts then on the theory of The Illuminati running the U.S. and the world NOW?!?!?

I have freemasons in my lineage, my maternal grandfather (who was tight with the Gettys - way up there in their oil dealings) was the last one...not that that means anything but interesting to note.

the illuminati died out about the time the freemasons came to be ? If any group of people out there that has control over the world or trying to rule the world would be zions, not nazis like this country would like for you to believe.

br4sco · 07-01-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Let me see if I can explain it to you:

Trail of Tears - 1831
Civil War - 1861

u have to explain nothing, 31 years isnt much in between, let me ask u one more time. why would the indians help the rebels if they were the ones who caused them leave their land? does that make sense to you ?

MetrixApps - Sean · 07-01-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Two great books that will fill you with a ton of information and are written by a great author who keeps things interesting (David McCullogh).

- 1776
- John Adams

read em both. good stuff in there.

baddog · 07-01-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by br4sco

u have to explain nothing, 31 years isnt much in between, let me ask u one more time. why would the indians help the rebels if they were the ones who caused them leave their land? does that make sense to you ?

Man I am pissed. I prepared a long detailed response and GFY went and refreshed the page on me, deleting everything.

Rebels - Confederacy
Yankees - Union

No Confederacy at time of Trail of Tears
Indians been fighting Union long before they were called Yankees
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/nativeamericans.htm

Quote:

Statistics show that just under 3,600 Native Americans served in the Union Army during the war. Perhaps the best known of their number was Colonel Ely Parker, who served as an aide to General U. S. Grant, and was present at Robert E. Lee's surrender at Appomattox Court House. Statistics for the Confederacy are not reliably available, but most scholars of Native American involvement in the actual fighting of the war are very well acquainted with the major Southern figure among them: Brigadier General Chief Stand Watie, a three-quarter blood Cherokee who was born in December 1806 near what would become Rome, Georgia. Stand Watie was one of the signers of a treaty that agreed to the removal of the Cherokee from their home in Georgia to what was then the Oklahoma territory; this split the tribes into two factions, and Stand Watie became the leader of the minority party.
At the outbreak of the Civil War, the minority party gave its allegiance to the Confederacy, while the majority party went for the North.

http://www.historynet.com/american-i...the-crater.htm

Quote:

More than 20,000 American Indians fought in the Civil War for both the Union and the Confederacy. Probably the best known were the Cherokee soldiers of General Stand Watie, who sided with the South in the Trans-Mississippi West. But the men Bowley saw were mostly Chippewas and Ottawas from Company K of the 1st Michigan Sharpshooters, the largest unit of American Indians serving with the Union armies east of the Mississippi River.

Again, sue the school district.

06-30-2009, 10:09 PM	#1
K R I S T E N Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,438	--+RANDOM: U.S. History+-- A gf and I just had a stellar dinner...BUT... 3% of our convo was a discussion of what our plans are for the July 4th weekend... 1% of the convo was her going on her "I hate Obama" rant which then got her to get into... 96% of our (one sided) conversation for the night: Her bombarding me with EVERY fact of the founding of the United States of America (from the beginning to present time). I pride myself on being a SMART chick, but as I sat there, I couldnt help but feel a little stupid bc I dont remember half of what she does... ...so, in the spirit of Independence Day being around the corner, I want to know: (1) How much U.S. History do you remember from your studies? (2) When you think "U.S. History/American History" what are the first few things that come to mind? (3) As an American (or not) do you even care about the who's / what's / when's / where's / why's / or how's of how this country came to be?! I know this isnt a "provacative" discussion...Im just curious about my fellow GFYers... My Answers: (1) Clearly not as much as my friend. (2) In NO particular order: Constitution, Jamestown/Virginia Colony/John Smith, 13 original colonies, Boston Tea Party, Taxes, Wars, Our Founding Fathers, Revolution, 1776 (3) I suppose I care, but I am more interested in the future. __________________ K R I S T E N KSquaredDynamics, Inc. ~ Taking Care of {YOUR} Business

06-30-2009, 10:22 PM	#2
munki Do Fun Shit. Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OC Posts: 13,393	Watching the American Experience special on PBS lately, especially the Native American centered mini series was pretty fuckin eye opening to say the absolute least, and I def. kept myself pretty schooled up, coming from a family of teachers. What did I learn that I still know today overall... America has always had a habit of walking around with a big fucking stick, poking it around right or wrong, and coming up with half assed apologies for whatever happened later. Rinse wash repeat. __________________ “I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.” -Oscar Wilde

06-30-2009, 11:02 PM	#4
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,998	In the past ten years for some reason I've become a huge fan of WWII and read all books I can about it. The one thing I've discovered is that what we were taught in high school was slanted, making American look great while barely touching on the sacrifices other countries made. At the same time, a few years back a friend of mine decided to become a US citizen and had to pass his test. Although this guy was ten times smarter than me, I helped him study. There was like fifty facts he had to memorize, stuff like "who was the original 13 colonies?". The first time around I think I got twenty of them right. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

07-01-2009, 12:05 AM	#6
brassmonkey Pay It Forward Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Yo Mama House Posts: 77,237	i dont remember shit __________________ TRUMP 2025 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law! DACA ENDED - SUPPORT AZ HCR 2060 52R - email: brassballz-at-techie.com

07-01-2009, 04:01 AM	#8
TBS_Andreas Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,163	Might hit a friends b-day party __________________ * 16-19 September 2024, ViennaHouse Diplomat Hotel & Conference Center, Prague, Czech Republic

06-30-2009, 10:42 PM	#3
NickB. Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,855	Im dutch - Ill be working

07-01-2009, 05:07 AM	#9
bloggerz Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 16,256	i was there __________________ I SELL ADULT BACKLINKS! Email: eroticweb>gmail SKYPE: gfybloggerz $$$$$ MAKE HUGE MONEY IN CAMS - CLICK HERE $$$$$

07-01-2009, 05:30 AM	#10
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 39,829	i remember sitting at a dinner with some friends from the US when one of them said how sad it is that they learned so little about history in general at school. and then one of their girlfriends got really upset and said how much more important the 250 years of US history are compared to thousands of years of world history. __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you! Skype: madalton02826 - Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

07-01-2009, 06:45 AM	#11
KBoogie Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 740	I was taught nothing about our history in school actually. I vaguely remember doing a play about Donner Pass and a term paper about the Beatles...THAT'S IT! My history teachers were all coaches so our class environment involved projection movies about random shit like tape worms in Latin America so the coach/teacher could work out his plays for the game that night. And if we lost that game...the next day was a nightmare in class. Not only did I not learn about any presidents, our geography as a nation in general or any wars, I learned nothing of slavery, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Rosa Parks, or any other african american history. Coastal Orange County schools leave quite a bit to be desired as I aced many classes without taking my book out of my locker and I am not Mensa-ish, lol. __________________ Kristin www.smartbucks.com www.ten.com ICQ: 367485738 AIM: KrsJy1 1 join = $40pps \| 2+ joins = $50pps \| 5+ joins = $75pps \| 10+ joins = $100pps

07-01-2009, 06:49 AM	#12
RobertD Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,149	Read Zinn. . __________________ Sexy Latinas

07-01-2009, 06:53 AM	#13
JenniDahling Market Penetration Specialist Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Out of my Suitcases Posts: 5,285	I attended high school in Hawaii and had one semester of US history and the rest of the time learned world history especially focusing on Asian history, same with geography. Then again, Hawaii was always a reluctant addition to the states and are still wanting independence from the US govt. __________________ cLick my kitty, you know you want to jenni {at} prkitty.com Meet me at The Island Gathering

07-01-2009, 07:46 AM	#16
CherryLipsRosa Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 3,603	I learned a lot about history but unfortunately i did not study in the US. __________________ Rosalia M. ICQ.12150439 Skype. cherrylipsrosa

07-01-2009, 07:47 AM	#17
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	Where you are going is partially determined by where you have been. Learn History, It repeats it's self and it will help you stop making the same mistakes in the future. As for me., My family was on the Mayflower. So I always think about it. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

07-01-2009, 09:03 AM	#19
gornyhuy Chafed. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Face Down in Pussy Posts: 18,041	Dream characters worrying about clearly remembering the first part of the weird dream they had. __________________ icq:159548293

07-01-2009, 10:13 AM	#22
Moe Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hollywood Posts: 1,513	Don't test my knowledge Kristen, I'll be more than happy to school you when it comes to world history. If you need any , feel free to come by my office for History 101 @ 4pm today. Thank you, class has been dismissed __________________ Moe XBIZ \| The Industry Source ICQ: 143-275-301 moe [at] xbiz [dot] com XBIZ™ \| The Industry Source

07-01-2009, 10:21 AM	#24
Deesnuts Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,792	raped the indians and the land __________________

07-01-2009, 11:31 AM	#28
Redmanthatcould Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,771	This is what the History channel was invented for. The one thing that I like learning about are our past presidents. So much shit gets swept under the rug, it's crazy.

07-01-2009, 01:23 PM	#34
pocketkangaroo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 8,452	Two great books that will fill you with a ton of information and are written by a great author who keeps things interesting (David McCullogh). - 1776 - John Adams