Isn't that upload form just for show though? I have tried uploading videos and never gotten a single one listed.

same here, tried that and no movie listed so far.. but what would be the reason to keep the upload form up then???

No matter how many times I say this I'm still going to get flamed, but for the sake of posterity I'll say it again, I do not agree with anyone infringing on anyone else's copyrights and to profit while doing so is morally wrong and SHOULD BE illegal, even though it's currently not.

That being said, tube sites are not illegal, no matter how badly you want them to be.

Secondly, the idea that a site started out as what you call an illegal tube but now plays by the rules you want it to play by, still has some sort of lifetime ban in your eyes, is ridiculous.

In an industry where most of the big traffic guys in the past 10 years started out in warez, taking pics from newsgroups to make galleries, and all sorts of other shit like that, not to mention the millions that were made with shady credit card billing over the years.

Hell, blacksonblondes is a name most of the old TGP guys swear by, and they started with nothing but stolen content.

This moral relativity is ridiculous.

You hate them because they cut deeply into your market share. Period, the end, case closed.

Damn.. that would have been fun again.

Maybe for show? Or maybe they collect the stats to see what's hot? :)

Youtube quickly comes to mind... :)

I was thinking the same thing.. and that list is huge, so many of the biggest password sites turned into program owners or large traffic webmasters, and that spawned even more webmasters feeding oh hell it was crazy fun..

Newsgroups.. Feeds In Paysites not much else can be said. It ended when Processors started checking Paysites content.


They cut deeply into "a" market share. Plenty of slices of the pie all over the Internet for everyone. It is some peoples market share, but it doesn't have to be that way.

So they can plead "user uploaded" everytime something copyrighted is up there.

Exactly. Most people broke the old rules (or at least bent them) when they first got in, and then once they were established and making good money, they got their noses bent out of shape about the new group of kids coming along and breaking the new rules.

Well all knew that 90%+ of the sites submitted to link lists and galleries submitted to TGP's had stolen content on them back in the day. Nobody could afford a new set of matrix or david lace content every day for a gallery. It was prohibitively expensive back then. (and you couldn't get listed with the cheap shit, TGP owners were fucking picky)

Not to mention movie content was incredibly hard to come by. Most paysites only had feeds, but somehow MGP's were able to fill their lists every day with fresh hardcore mpegs.

Almost everyone "knew" it was stolen, but it was harder to blame a TGP or MGP because they didn't actually publish or host the content, they simply linked to other people's pages.

The tube site phenomenon is just another generation of that same dynamic.


Sure, but the dogs barking about this whole issue, all day every day, are the ones who lost their market share to the tubes.
This includes TGP/MGP owners, as well as submitters, and paysites with non-exclusive content or lower quality content.

The TGP/MGP owners can't get back the traffic they've lost, and there's really no way for a submitter to make money off of someone else's tube.
Paysite owners can make money, but they have to have content that's very high quality and compelling.

So basically, this pushes a shitload of people out of the business and makes them irrelevant, and they're just kicking and screaming on their way out the door.

That's my :2 cents:

Yeah, it's a hole in the law big enough to drive an Abrams tank through, but these guys would hardly be the first people to get rich exploiting a legal loophole.

I agree that the law should be rewritten to reflect the recent changes in technology, but the moral superiority coming from the people who have lost business to the tubes is pretty laughable IMHO.

And you just make yourself look like an idiot when calling things "legal" and "illegal" when they're really "things I like" and "things I don't like". :2 cents:

What's really hilarious, is that prechecked x-sales do more to hurt this business than tube sites could ever dream of doing.....yet when I speak out against them I get eviscerated by the bro club.....and when I point out that tube sites aren't breaking the law, I get eviscerated by the bro club again.

Will you guys ever take your heads out of your asses?

You lose customers to a new type of site, and your answer is to ass rape the few customers you have left, making it less likely that they'll ever buy our products again.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

That's why I said copyrighted instead of illegal.

Delicious.
:)

So it's your position then that all, of most, of the people getting hurt by the tubes are themselves thieves or worse?

It's a commonly accepted way to differentiate industry friendly tubes from the ones that steal content, upload it and then claim that a surfer did it. It might not matter to you but it's an important distinction for some of us.

Now, if you think the terms legal and illegal are inappropriate in this instance, what words would you suggest that we use instead?

Gives you a nice little stiffy just thinking about it, doesn't it? :321GFY

Absolutely... "Moral Values" keep them from being thieves, the worse is well... worse for a reason.



Yes, some tubes did/do do that, but it's not commonly accepted. Plenty of Websites (not just tubes) take user submits and monitor it like crazy. But forums, forums kill Tubes and have for years.. little bastard ass forums... a love/hate relationship from hell.

It's like bitching for hot linking shit from GFY..

Being as you're not the guy who's been wagging his finger at card bangers, I'll accept this answer from you :winkwink:


I rather suspect that all of them started that way.


That's some pretty good stuff you're smoking tonight, eh? :1orglaugh

Banging cards.... Is that like selling a book that tells people how to protect yourself from others that bang cards, yet provide the tools so you can see how it works?

Saw it in a movie once..


Many did start with real user uploads and still have them. It's easy to tell the difference, the tubes with variety, have real user uploads. The few known piracy monsters all have huge length content, and almost all the stolen content was the full scenes too, with only a minor mixture of smaller stuff.


You know, it's possible I'm out of smoke, nobody ever thinks of that first.

Shit happens.

And then you adapt or die..

or whatever it is thats popular to say.

And did they? (Im assuming you sent a formal DMCA)

My position is that what the tubes are doing is no different than what the MGP's did, and TGP's before them, and Link Lists before them, and Pic posts before them.

The main difference is that with the tube, all of the content is hosted by the tube owner. So instead of the excuse "hey I'm just linking to other people's pages, if you have a problem talk to the guy who submitted the gallery", they have the excuse "hey, I'm just publishing the stuff my surfers upload, if you have a problem, send a DMCA notice".
At the end of the day, they're no better or worse than their predecessors.

Most, not all, but most, I'd say over 90% of the people who got into this business years ago cut some corners. They took pictures from newsgroups or downloaded them from members areas to make galleries or free sites.
They didn't pay $800 for their copy of photoshop or $XXX for their copy of dreamweaver.
They ran password sites or warez sites. They linked a movie image to a dialer, and named the dialer britneyspears.exe
They sent traffic to xpics and babenet and other programs that they KNEW were ripping off surfers. They sent traffic to pay per download sponsors that installed spyware/toolbars without the surfer's consent. They flew banners for celeb sites that promised videos of britney spears or jennifer lopez sucking cock....when they damn well knew those videos didn't exist.

The Hun started out linking to the members areas of adult check gold sites before people knew how to protect them. He crashed alot of servers and alot of AC webmasters ended up with huge bandwidth bills.
Some of the biggest free sites out there started as forums where people hotlinked images from sites, stealing bandwidth from webmasters when bandwidth was very expensive.

So for these people to sit on top of their soap boxes and preach about the inalienable rights of copyright holders....well excuse me, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.


Now, as for the wording, I don't care if you call them peach tubes and plum tubes, or licorice tubes and candy cane tubes. All I'm saying is that every time you decide to use the word "illegal", then you're going to have to argue with 20 guys who are going to tell you (and rightly so) that they're not illegal.

Just because you don't like them and think what they're doing is wrong, doesn't mean they're breaking the law.
So unless your intention is to have this retarded argument for the eighty-six-thousandth fucking time, come up with some new terminology. :2 cents:

Just wondering why nobody replied to the doc here, he has some valid points going.
Shouldnt let this thread die already.

The thread's dead already.

It's like this, when the level of discourse sinks to tired old phrases like "adapt or die" that means a thread is well beyond dead.

Time to bury the corpse :2 cents:

Ah great, so whens the party?

I heard hes making $11.50 now:thumbsup

Tube8 and pornhub are legal?

i think redtube is good..

Awww how cute, your like my own little puppy following me around trying to suckup to me.
But no kiddo sucking up wont help now, we all know your nothing but another noob trying to act like some hot pimp with a myspace site that isnt doing more then a couple bucks on cpc/cpa. Thats ok boy, i know your just sad that your banned buddies on gfy arent around anymore doing the trolling for you. Maybe you can try the other forums, oh.. wait.. you got banned everywhere :1orglaugh

Your cute though, keep it up!:winkwink::1orglaugh

Ps. wanted to ad a funny screen of one your quotes again, but man, its to hard to find the best one, because they are all hilarious and contradicting everything you post on your little board of dumbass. LOL! Maybe you should invite more people from here, or wait, no.. they will notice theres no money to be made there, and leave to post on other forums, which then makes you cry, and the member being banned for "Liking the other forums more" hahahah.

Depends who you ask. The snake man thinks they're all legal :1orglaugh

All kidding aside, the legal tubes (that is to say the honest ones) only accept submissions from copyright holders.

Haha, I like you. Some guy getting flamed in another thread here pissed people off by calling out those with ridiculous cross sales. :1orglaugh

You can giggle all you want, what a person thinks doesn't matter, what the law says matters.

It does depend on who you ask, because the more legally ignorant the person is, the more likely they are to say these tubes are illegal.

Don't confuse what you want the law to be, or what you wish the law was, with what it actually is.

YOUTUBE.com owned by GOOGLE!

To me the problem is this. You may not feel like you are doing anything wrong but I'm sure most of the sponsors that see their videos on a tube without their permission do.

Then it becomes a question of how you are perceived by the webmaster community and even more importantly the sponsor community. You are then looked at as a pariah.

You can now only make money by running illegal tubes. If you try to make money the honest way you can't because you have alienated yourself from sponsors. You will have to do shady things like open up new accounts and change your address to get checks for any honest work. You'll have to lead a double life.

It seems to me like a matter of business ethics.

And sooner or later the tube bubble has to pop.

Youporn is the most legal tube on the net

Seriously, all the other blackmarket tube sites should start following YouPorn's lead and get working with the sponsors.

There's no reason not to do it, and by completely ignoring the paysite source of the clips on the tubesite (not linking back or showing info/banners)

and instead only linking to webcams/dating sites- they are leaving a boatload of cash just sitting on the table.

I can't understand why you WOULDNT want to have some easy to identify affiliate links back to the source of the content.. most of the dudes surfing your site are interested in that content, and could be a paying customer.. why not get a piece of that?

Not everybody on a tube site wants to go join a dating or cam site.. i mean they are at your tube site looking for movie clips..


Its just dumb.. never understood why you wouldnt have some obvious way to join the site the clip came from. (more than just a buried "click here for full video" text link)

YouPorn is now setting a new standard and tubesite owners should pay attention

I do not use any content that I don't own a license for or otherwise have permission to use by the owner of the content.
So I'm not part of this group of people that everyone has a problem with. I'm simply a rational guy pointing out the stupidity of calling a legal thing illegal, just because you don't like it.

In this thread we've been talking about the law, and how a person feels about what they're doing doesn't mean jack shit. It's either legal or it isn't.

mmmkay?

Or see signature. :thumbsup