For sure, you had those all boy bands like Take That or Fuckstreet boys but at least they were visibly marketed for 13 year old girls etc. I think there always was this easy listening kid music, but you could still hear say Joe Cocker or Tina Turner on radio or TV too if I remember well, those seem like GODS compared to those daemons with synthesizer these days.

I don't think there would ever be a situation where you would be bombed with juvenile audiovisual stupidity as much as now.

And if you grow older, what do they try to market to you?

Bullshit bands with hair that had to cost cost more than Beyonce's ass that sing politically correct lyrics about "love" and "feelings" and they play guitars, so they are already "musicians" and have those long refrains and it's insane.

I also only listen to hip hop a bit and like mainly old school east coast, as I realized that can one characterize the acts I really respect.

Yeah I'm not too overblown from say Green Day but damn it's much better if kids listen to Green Day than to those donkeys.

Will check that out thanks.

Hell yeah, good heavy \ hair metal is like watching a good B movie, it ain't no Bergman but it's entertaining as hell.

Well I'm currently residing in Prague, so it's a little bit out of hand, so far I have Motley Crue and Motorhead on my list of nearest concerts, too bad I missed ZZ Top, had to be out of the city that night.

I think it's actually like he's a little bit like the gofdather of those EMO maniacs, you could see lot of really depressed people with NIN signs and black shirts etc.
:)

Here's another point, I'm buying me Rolling stone time from time, and it seems that MOST of what they write about are older acts!

You see there really established stars like Bruce Springsteen etc. with interviews flashes etc. well I would expect only like 30 pct. of the magazine is dedicated to new / trendy / charting acts.

Why?

Well they wouldn't have anything to write about -

"Lil Wayne got loaded, banged a couple ho's and then raped the synthesizer for a new single." end of story

It's interesting.

Carlos you have very valid points, which I agree almost 100%, but I'm not sure if they're right. I mean, me and my wife were musicians and usually talk about that, and we always wonder if MAYBE it's just that we're kinda old for juvenile stuff and we can't get it.

for example, Mike mentions NIN and Jane's Addiction, 2 bands that I love, but we gotta admit they're quite old. Question is: are they THAT better to what there is right now or it's just that we grow with them hence our taste has evolved the same way? One of the things is that I've heard some really good stuff, but I don't see any young artists doing it, so maybe it's just that we got stuck in another time/decade. (btw, I don't agree with you with 96/00 question mark, there was some amazing stuff those years, mainly from electronic bands breaking the molds, the stoner scene, the "alterlatino" scene and so on).

On the other hand, my older daughter is 15yo and she listen basically the same as me and my wife, which would be the confirmation of your point, but at the same time I remember myself being a big fan of 60s and 70s music in the 80s, where everything looked to me like crap. ANd now I love a lot of 80s music, even a lot of stuff I hated at that time.

So again, not sure. From a very subjective point of view, I'd say you're almost 100% correct, but at the same time I resist to believe it. I can't imagine a world where the only thing you'll hear is Christina Aguileras, Britneys, Lil Waynes and horrendous crap like that (and I'm a fan of hip hop, just not nowaday's crap)

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have here tonight as a special guest no one else than the multiply platinum Grammy for the best new "monstarap" record winning artist, please welcome:

Lil J double BadAss !

http://crunkquotes.com/images/Lil-Wayne-posing.jpg

Who sold 5 million records with his first album within 5 weeks, we'll ask him a couple questions about his brand new upcoming record that's caled "suckka".

"Lil J Double BadAss "After your first record "King of da streetz" that was incredibly succesful, did you had any main motive for the follow up, what inspired you the most while writing those new songs?"

"Yeah yu know it was like you still need to make money, and I need money for ho's and blow, my producer needs money for ho's and blow, the owner of the company needs money for ho's and blow..

So I took the original material from King of da streetz and aded there a lil more ho's and blow!"

That's true...there was definitely more of a mix of artists being played then than there is now, even though it was definitely top-heavy with the teeny stuff.

lol...maybe a bit overstated, but largely true. The one thing that somewhat compensates here (not sure if you have it there or not) is satellite radio; at least until it sinks under its own debt, at least there are 100 or so choices for different music channels. I can just hit the buttons and go from 50s to 60s to 70s to 80s to 90s to classic rock to classic hits to classic alternative to soul to grunge to punk to to hip-hop to hair bands to folk to you-name-it until I find something that interests me. (Internet radio does that too, but finding what you want to hear is too much work for me - I'm used to pushing buttons on a radio, so pushing buttons on Siri/XM is more my style.)


Absolutely right. When I used to consult troubled top-40 stations in the 80s and looked at their playlists, often littered with crap...I always asked one question first. "Can you sing along with it in your car?" To me, that defines entertaining when it comes to "mass" music.

Actually, they're playing the O2 arena in Prague on June 24.

No doubt about it :1orglaugh

Very true - and their big article this month was an interview with Dylan. I'd rather read about him every month, than read about Lil Wayne once :1orglaugh

I am sure quite a number of good things happened to music in the 80s, 90s and 00s all together. Starting from the industrial and experimental sound of acts like Throbbing Gristle, Coil, Einsturzende Neubauten, the goth scene of Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Joy Division, all the way to the modern stuff like The Knife/Fever Ray or TV on the Radio or a thousand of other obscure bands, you just have to pull your head out of the TV and look for interesting things. I've been to lots of gigs for the past years and all of them were great. I don't even know who these rap guys are, they are purely not exposed in my world.

Harvey, I've asked myself the same question a million times (the "kinda old for juvenile stuff and can't get it" question) --- and while I think there may be some truth to it, I really do think it's more a matter of the quality of the music "then vs. now."

It's obviously not scientific, but I draw a lot of my conclusions from my wife's tastes. She's 25 years younger than me, and grew up musically in the 90s - in love with NIN/Alice in Chains/etc. But she's also always loved the Beatles and Zepplin and the Dead and lots of other "before she was born" groups -- and she was unbelievably excited when Simon and Garfunkel did a reunion tour a few years ago, and she actually got to see them. Another time, we were in Vegas and I thought it would be kind of fun/funny to go see Tom Jones in concert; she had a terrific time.
(Of course, there's a lot of stuff we don't have in common; she *hates* my love of Philly soul and 70s one-hit-wonders --- and I'm already dreading being dragged to yet ANOTHER Tori Amos concert later this summer. :( )
But overall, she's only 30 and can't find much of anything "new" that she really likes anymore, she's basically just into what her favorite bands from the past are releasing now. Sounds quite a bit like your daughter in terms of listening to older, "better" music.
OTOH, when *I* was 30, it was the early 80s - and there was something new and exciting being released by another great new band every week, it seemed.
So I really *do* think it's a matter of the quality of music and musicians now --- it just isn't the same as it was for so many years. :2 cents:

When I re-read what I wrote - I realized I left out one important thing. It also has to be GOOD, as well as being catchy.
(I didn't want to give the impression that just because you can sing along with it, I'd consider MMM-bop as a song that should be on anyone's playlist, at any time, in any decade, in any alternate universe. :1orglaugh The 90s equivalent would be that "Hey, Jealousy" or "No Rain" were good songs that were also entertaining mass music.)

And you're proving my point once again.

I don't own tv for four years now cause there's nothing to watch.

And as I said I am talking about POP culture, not obscure bands, of course that I enjoy John Cale solo, or Tom Waits (who's quite famous but definitely not mainstream) hell I listen to a lot of obscure jazz stuff and all kinds of things that would scare the hell out of anyone who's only getting music from mainstream radio.

But I'm talking about POP culture.

For most of the time there ever was POP culture you could still watch without getting seriously brain damaged - at least partially, partially.

You ALSO still had there actual artists / musicians actually performing something interesting or funny or touching or etc. something on those mainstream media channels like TV.

Now all you've got left are monkeys trained by the production pimps.

:thumbsup


Now that's a sure bet for me, thanks for finding out I guess I really need a help from overseas to orientate over here :)

Well what can that dude tell you, what is he original with, worst looking pop artist with more stupid tattoos than ever?

I don't know maybe he's smart, maybe he reads Schopenhauer while he's not rapping about ho's and maybe all that terrible music is just a cover, maybe, but maybe not.

Here's another point.

Like I know a couple say sane people in their early 20's now and the TOO listen mainly to old music, artists with the origin from the 60's to 90's.

But they are the ones who already never had a chance to see or hear that on mainstream TV or radio, and those that were pre-destined to buy another lobotomy records production.

Yes, the point I make is that no matter if you liked it or not in particular, there always was SOMETHING happening!

Something happening..

Like let's try to fill in the blanks - what emerged during the late 90's after say 96?

I would say probably that kind of Craig David, Artful Dodger etc. style dance music, which is actually quite decent and usually contains stellar singing.

I am sure the style is called somehow, then you have another phenomenon - not overly interesting melodic metal bands with female singer - maybe it were Nightwish who started that, I'm sure a lot of skinny pubescent metal fantasies go on while listening or watching those bands.

Then the emo explosion, what do these people listen to actually?

I know they're like maniacs but what are their bands?

Ok now what emerged from 2001 - 2009 ?

More degeneration of any style out there?

I can't name anything new now..

I'm not sure if the notion of pop is the same nowadays or even whether we need this notion at all. Is Justice pop or unpop? The Killers? The White Stripes? Santigold? What exactly makes them pop or not pop? They are a bit different from what we would define as mainstream (or are they?) but they are massively popular and get a lot of buzz. Popular culture is literally the culture of the people, for the people, and by the people, so I think in 2009 we can already abandon this highbrow attitude all together and pick good stuff from wherever possible. I don't mind pop as long as it's quality made, and many less known bands are worthless, too, so why the borderline?

Does nu rave qualify? Nu disco/balearic sound? Swedish indie pop? All kinds of erm, indie rock/folk/whatever?

Basically, very few really NEW things emerge now, be it music, literature, cinema whatever. More like reworking of what we had.

My definition of pop?

Something that you can find in not specialized mass media.

Tom Waits has a special section on the NY Times site, I guess it pretty much makes him pop. And many many other acts, too.

pop music =/= music of the current generation
pop music = what the CORPORATE INDUSTRY sells to kids

If you're listening to or worrying about pop music you're an idiot. Pop music is packaged and distributed to middle school - high school kids. It is not generational music, it is a music product with a specific audience.

Real music of this current time is actually very very good.

Louis XIV
https://youtube.com/watch?v=oGBrxhmH1os


The Childballads
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WMHfZvgRK6M


Cold War Kids
https://youtube.com/watch?v=y2PlhHVsdzo


Elbow
https://youtube.com/watch?v=iL4mywCOJXA


Frantic
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lW82ZwSUlGw


The Hoosiers
https://youtube.com/watch?v=b69C67ZqYks


Vampire Weekend
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_XC2m...eature=related


We Are Scientists
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6XXfqPRG4TQ


The Wombats
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bXCf6...eature=related


Young Knives
https://youtube.com/watch?v=TVxfH5vMM-o



Point is:

1. MTV and so called "new music / pop music" is for KIDS. If you're out of school, grow the fuck up.

2. If you think new music sucks, you have no grasp of new music besides what is spoon fed to you via tv/radio.

:thumbsup

Or what about Jack White's latest super group The Dead Weather?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=scJ8ITsZsl4

Yeah but imagine Tom Waits starting in 2009 and not at the start of the 70's you may not argue with the facts

That's the definition of 2009

The only new thing in pop music is that's actually more dumb and degenerated and impotent than ever.

You just confirmed the state of affairs, no need to bark, I know we're at GFY but sarcasm is not banned here yet, nor idiocy.

Which facts exactly? I can easily imagine someone like Tom Waits starting in 2009, there are so many songwriters and bands out there we don't know about, Tom Waits may look special f you were growing up with him, but on the global scale he's not that unique to the culture.

The time of big heroes is now past, there are smaller heroes now with their short age lived in the blogs.

Man, I can see the trend, everything modern is so worthless/stupid/degenerate for you, I remember your thread about Prague's anti-radar protesters, these were also utter retards for you, or people and internet users in general, now the music, what's next? What is it, lack of sunny days in Prague? I don't like this as well, but it does not make everything this black around me :pimp

Today's music is reflective of today's society... The same applies to cinema, fashion and culture in general. By the way, I'm not a nostalgic dude, I was born in the late 80s.

Pop is now poo...

Let's keep this to the point I can't really help you with any personal issues as I'm not qualified to. No need to cry about something I wrote on a message board.

Did you hear "Amadou et Mariam" or "Animal Collective"? That's new stuff and really cool. I also like "These New Puritans" and of course Manu Chao's latest stuff (and older) is fucking amazing. I also listened to a pre-cut of Massive Attack's new album... OMG, they will kick everyone else's ass AS USUAL

I'll leave you with some new Tricky stuff
https://youtube.com/watch?v=W7Zjp2-zTCA

and some Amadou et Mariam:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=uUHlHR0FAcM

and some Bajofondo
https://youtube.com/watch?v=G8whC4Me8d4

and Bajofondo with La Mala Rodriguez!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=S9Lt-...eature=related

if you like Hip hop in Spanish, more of La Mala Rodríguez:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6UJS2SZz5F8

and "Zoe" from Mexico
https://youtube.com/watch?v=oM9-ENGxEZ8
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1NWifkcL-xE


(on a side note: how the fuck do you embed youtube videos here?)

He has a point. Like I said, which you tried to brush off.

... The only people bitching about "POP" music are those constrained to what is spoon feed to them via radio or tv. To put it plainly, if you have any grasp of music, or even have sat radio or indy radio. Then you aren't subject to just what is poured down your throat.

Otherwise, like yourself. You are only aware of the music shoved down your throat by the mainstream industry via radio or tv.

Your taste and opinion on music are meaningless. Because you are sheltered. You don't know music or what music is truly out there. You only know what is fed to you, which is nothing.

I'm far from crying, it's just that I know a bit about what's going on in music and I thought I could point out some pieces of silver lining in the cloud you have painted here. I'm totally OK if the hood you are wearing is too thick to grasp that.

Thanks for the links I'll check them out.

He has no point at all and you're again in the war with your own egos while not able to observe things with clue, read my next reply..

This is a complete non sense as those that are buying this shit are those who CAN'T have a clue about the music outside of MTV in 2009 so you're ahead arguing with a common sense here.

Check top40 from 1959 top 40 from 1969 top 40 from 1979 top 40 from 1989, hell even top 40 from 1999 and tell me how many people there can be considered musicians.

Then check top 40 2009 and tell me how many people there can be considered musicians.

Now THAT's the state of the pop music.

I'm not talking about the great pianist that will never make a record and that most will never ever have a chance to hear, I'm not talking about that avantgarde chick that released a record and has cult following but never hit TV

I'm not even talking about someone like Ani Di Franco who built her way up by endless touring and build their very own audience until becoming known at least in the "alternative" waters.

I'm talking about a music that Joe when he comes back form the factory can play and that will have balls and make his life more fun!

Oh really? Am I that lame?

Ah I forgot we're great buddies so you can just fuck with me, right?

Do you behave like this outside the boards too? You must be very popular among your peers!

I don't get it, what did you just try to say here?

That if I have 2 500 records at home, if I played piano, classic quitar and bass guitar, was in a band, was a rock DJ for a bit, wrote reviews and seen countless concerts, always dedicated a lot of times to explore genres I never heard, artists i never heard, that my taste is meaningless?

So maybe if your'e a virgin but licked an 18 years old girl ass last week, that was really fresh then you know more about sex then if you fucked every week for the past 20 years right?

Do me a favor!

Absolute drivel, Shit, Garbage, Trash, Vile Puke.

Problem is, the bands you posted are perfect examples of the "flat pack indie" problem described in the piece I quoted previously. Musical fluff.

Christ look at this:

Look at what are they try to sell you, who are those deadbeats?

Is this a parody on avantgarde or new wave music?

Holy shit this is exactly that politically correct superficial easy listening pop rock with gay hair that's in vogue now!

This is exactly that pseudo indie genre - like wanna be independent but still very polished, probably targeted to girls and coeds and those who feel they're "no more kids" and want to listen to something "independent".

Look at that dude behind the piano moaning! That's very graphic!

I mean I wouldn't die if I heard this on radio, but not with a gun at my head I would play this at home or in a car, I'll check the rest later too, maybe that's gonna be better.

dont hate the playa hate the game :pimp hes major paid

I just read about that Jay Z, he has serious game pimping all those gimps.

LOTS of pocket money gets spent on luxury!

I believe he's very smart though, all the respect to him.

I'd rather watch the "Common People" video with Joe Jackson, Ben Folds and William Shatner than waste another 4 minutes watching THIS video again :1orglaugh

haha yeaaah right

All of those bands are indie in the truest sense. I believe Louis XIV is the only band to have been signed onto a major label, but they still produce their albums themselves. I know their history so you're going to have to try and bring more to the table (like facts and references) if you want to throw out opinions like that. :2 cents:

Well maybe if you're acceptable, trendy and you have your hair polished the right way to impress a huge audience with your naive fake rock, they will let you produce your shitty records on your own.

I believe the whole "indie" scene is a fake as hell, it's just another cliche - to have something "outside of mainstream" for all those pseudo intellectuals and kids that want to look hype and listen to lame musicians with egos as big as many of those super pop freaks.

Those bands are many times serious posers, they just don't try to pick up 15 year old girls but 19 year old girls (or boys as I am concerned after watching those cherubines).

I mean if you take your own band seriously you can give a shit about indie non indie etc.

And what's the deal with those DUMB smartass band names? like "cold war kids" or "elbow" this is just another way to shout "we're free" "we're indie" "we're different" "listen to us we're cool" "you want to be indie like us!"

Fuck that get a real name and play some real music!

wtf Do you mean "indie scene"? Indie means independent. It's not a scene. A band can't "give a shit about indie / non indie". All indie means is if they are independent of a commercial record label.

See, this is why I can't take you seriously.

And who the fuck cares if french fries in the sig take me seriously?

Dude, this thread is not about you, it's not about me, I can't help you with any personal issues so if your problem is that you have to have the last word - be it!

The point is - "indie" is just another label, they pimp those very bad bands as "indie" to have something in hand for those, who want to feel "non commercial" or "independent".

But this is not independent, it's just another form of crap to fill in the market gap.

Those bands are very lame, very lame at least the samples that were posted here.

I guess you can find 100 of those bands in every college club all around the world, they have all those juvenile names and songs and very mediocre writing and playing skills etc., well in case their members look good and gay enough to appear in media, then someone signs them as "indie".

Overproduced.

Pop Music used to be pop music because it was popular. Now Pop music happens, and then it becomes popular.

What do you mean "indie" is a label? "Indie" is a definition, not a label or scene. Man you are really falling off track here.

And who "pimps" these bands? What do you mean? Where are they being pimped? Do you think these bands are on tv or the radio or something?

Here you can see the grudge you have. You say you are anti-"pop music", but then bash local bands playing in college towns for no money or fame?

You make no sense dude. :2 cents:

and this?! so annoying!!! You talk about hating labels and shit. But you use the term "indie" like some snot nose little mtv watching brat.

? Indie means independent, not signed to a commercial record label. /definition

If you go to a R&B club downdown and watch some dude freestyle who isn't signed to a commercial record label. That is Indie. If you go watch some "Cure" wannabe drowning in his own sorrow and isn't signed to a commercial record label, that is indie.

Indie is not a "style" of music. Stop referring to it as such. :warning

Uhg, I loath discussing music with people who listen to the radio and/or watch music television.

Most music these days, in one word: shit.

But there is still some really good stuff out there for everyone's taste.

Some of my (fairly) current picks:

The Black Keys
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FVnBU3tIci8

Year Long Disaster
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NF9y4DEnkP8

(The incomparable) Mark Lanegan
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4e9SReA90Yo

Soulsavers (feat. the incomparable Mark Lanegan)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=V_5KaMESF-s

Porcupine Tree
https://youtube.com/watch?v=P3ihI_5t9Ws

Riverside
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nn8aCsEyLFY

This "old" thread is too much for me atm. >I'm drunk

Forgot to embed the videos:

I haven't read the entire thread, but I just wanted to add that the real creativity I've noticed in recent musical years is in the non-mainstream genres: downtempo jazz, drum and bass, etc. "Bands" like Thievery Corp, Nouvelle Vague, Aphex Twin don't quite break into the main streams but break experimental ground and have their own fans regardless.

:thumbsup

yes, a definition, ok so now you'll define what's independent by labeling it "indie" ah I get it now

:)

I don't know, how should I know.

So what you're saying is that you can suck as much as you want unless you take money for it?

Yes, in other words a lame band that you label as "indie" and market to people who are limited in decepting style but big in decepting pose

Music is music and should speak for itself without any bullshit labeling,

indie is a swindle - it's either bands that are so lame no major label will ever sign them or something too extravagant and outside of sane world that no major label will ever sign them, then they pick one of those very lame bands time from time and give them a little airplay and ALL OF A SUDDEN an INDEPENDENT and INDIE explosion arises!

And boards all over the internet are filled with "independent" fans sharing all the "indie" shit etc.

Music is music,

if you're taking your music seriously you definitely don't want to be labeled as "indie" cause that means something worse then those official bands, that means you can't make it and that you're a loser, a poser.

Ok then they turned it around and they made a style for kids that are starving for "independent" they picked one of those 100 lame bands up to market to kids that never had a chance to create their own style but are hungry for "independent" music.

Here's an example of independent - aay for example Guns n Roses and the song "One in a million" - now that was independent!

They were a bunch of jerks getting high and making millions of dollars, in 1988 they made a song that was so politically uncorrect that it caused major heat, that song would never ever be released today in the bullshit world of political correctness.

That's what I call independent and it doesn't have nothing in common if someone is under the contract or not.

The day real music will make money again is the day of revelation.

You better go find some pal

I haven't had a TV for four years but ... wait a minute why the fuck would I even want to justify my very poor musical comprehension based on a constant effort for about 15 years in front of you?

Who are you that you're so fighting for all those incredibly lame bands and share one silly pseudo intellectual remark after another?

Cool, I'm a huge fan of Mark Lanegan.

I'll check those out, thanks!